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I just got PT9 and got WUPped!!! Plugin Bundles
Old 24th December 2010
  #1
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

I just got PT9 and got WUPped!!!

Friggin' Waves, man. I had to make the jump, get windows 7 and PT9. Took me a whole day to get evrything loaded and working. I was all excited to play with a mix and gloat over ADC and my new 96 track count but my SSL4000 bundle / Musician's 2 won't work without waveshell 7, which consequently, I can't use without updating my WUP!!! $200 more down the drain...

I don't really know if I'm gonna pay it. I'm seriously considering another alternative.
Old 24th December 2010
  #2
If you do pay it, then:

1) Buy through a dealer, not direct from Waves. It will be less than $200.
2) Ask them about using the WUP credit towards buying something else. You'll get a discount off new plug-ins if you want (up to 50% off list which will translate a bit differently through a dealer since they never sell at list).
Old 24th December 2010
  #3
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Since you are using waves ssl, I recomend you wait for ssl native or buy ssl duende. The real ssl stuff sounds much better.
Old 24th December 2010
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecat View Post
If you do pay it, then:

1) Buy through a dealer, not direct from Waves. It will be less than $200.
2) Ask them about using the WUP credit towards buying something else. You'll get a discount off new plug-ins if you want (up to 50% off list which will translate a bit differently through a dealer since they never sell at list).
I recommend the same thing. With Waves having 40% off everything in Dec. I would get the Wup and then with the $200 credit you get, use it towards another bundle like the API, V, or Ren package. As long as you are on Windows 7 you should not have to upgrade again.
Old 24th December 2010
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureArtist View Post
Since you are using waves ssl, I recomend you wait for ssl native or buy ssl duende. The real ssl stuff sounds much better.
I am anxiously waiting for that.

@Everyone else, Yeah, I think that's what I'll do in the meantime.

Thank you.
Old 24th December 2010
  #6
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Or you could decide to upgrade to Silver (again, through a dealer), and get more plugs, making your whole bundle up to date with another year of WUP, but it still won't help your SSL. How much is the update to both of these? It shouldn't be that much. WUP is a maximum of $200. That doesn't mean every combination costs $200.
Old 24th December 2010
  #7
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What exactly does WUP stand for?
Old 24th December 2010
  #8
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Josh's's Avatar
 

Waves Update Plan. Their "plan" to make you regularly pay them for a software that doesn't get updates.
Old 24th December 2010
  #9
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Energie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9th Ward Records View Post
What exactly does WUP stand for?

Wup stands for: I'm gonna rip you off, repeatedly and then laugh about it.


At least they capped their price. I basically paid for my plugs a good twice over by now. will not buy wavs again.
Old 25th December 2010
  #10
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Jeezo's Avatar
buy a used duende and wait for the native versio you will have then for free )

anotha league in sound ...
Old 25th December 2010
  #11
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The WUP thing has actually become quite reasonable. I highly doubt the SSL bundle WUP will run the full $200 (unless you have the TDM version, and I'm not sure it would be that much even in that case). If you go to the Waves site under support, there's a list of the price cap on each bundle/plug WUP. I checked it before renewing the WUP on one plug and a bundle and, based on the list, I thought it'd end up being $130. Turned out to be less that $70 total, and, of course, I was able to use the WUP credit towards another bundle, which was already on sale 40% off. WUP used to really annoy me, but it's gotten to be a pretty good deal.
Old 25th December 2010
  #12
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NoVi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubster View Post
The WUP thing has actually become quite reasonable. I highly doubt the SSL bundle WUP will run the full $200 (unless you have the TDM version, and I'm not sure it would be that much even in that case). If you go to the Waves site under support, there's a list of the price cap on each bundle/plug WUP. I checked it before renewing the WUP on one plug and a bundle and, based on the list, I thought it'd end up being $130. Turned out to be less that $70 total, and, of course, I was able to use the WUP credit towards another bundle, which was already on sale 40% off. WUP used to really annoy me, but it's gotten to be a pretty good deal.
Agreed, yesterday I decided to upgrade from V6 to V7 (Diamond bundle). For $ 200 I could add the V-Comp en Pulgtec plug ins and got a $200 voucher for other plug ins. BTW I ordered online.
Old 25th December 2010
  #13
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
Friggin' Waves, man. I had to make the jump, get windows 7 and PT9. Took me a whole day to get evrything loaded and working. I was all excited to play with a mix and gloat over ADC and my new 96 track count but my SSL4000 bundle / Musician's 2 won't work without waveshell 7, which consequently, I can't use without updating my WUP!!! $200 more down the drain...

I don't really know if I'm gonna pay it. I'm seriously considering another alternative.
Wow, in the shorts from PT and Waves at the same time! Ouch!!! There are lots of good/better DAWs out there to choose from, and definitely much better and cheaper plugs that you can own instead of rent forever! Why settle for 96 tracks and really expensive, marginally good plugs that continue to reach into your wallet?
Old 25th December 2010
  #14
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
Wow, in the shorts from PT and Waves at the same time! Ouch!!! There are lots of good/better DAWs out there to choose from, and definitely much better and cheaper plugs that you can own instead of rent forever! Why settle for 96 tracks and really expensive, marginally good plugs that continue to reach into your wallet?
I don't mind the PT hit, I have alot of DAW's for compatability but PT's is what I use (by choice). It allows me to track and/or mix at local studios as well as home without a huge time footprint.

What better/cheaper plugs do you know of that have an E channelstrip emulation that sound good? I use it on every track to some capacity. I'm all game but I can't find any. I'm truly thinking about just getting the Duende Native as soon as it drops. I have ALOT of plugins, BTW.

I've at least demo'd almost all of the plugins out there. McDSP's G channel was nice but not fast enough for me (you need to toggle between 2 screens to use it). URS's channelstrip pro was nice but didn't sound as good to me. I have a buch of great standalone EQ's and comps but the channelstrip feature helps me fly through mixes and keep my cost down, it's the main reason I have all the clients that I do (time/cost ratio).

96 tracks is plenty for me. The largest session I have mixed to date was 73 I think. If it goes larger, I'm mixing it at a bigger, local spot.

Thanks for the input!
Old 25th December 2010
  #15
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elambo's Avatar
Save the $200 and go Duende, for all kinds o' reasons.
Old 26th December 2010
  #16
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.rOk.stA View Post
I don't mind the PT hit, I have alot of DAW's for compatability but PT's is what I use (by choice). It allows me to track and/or mix at local studios as well as home without a huge time footprint.

What better/cheaper plugs do you know of that have an E channelstrip emulation that sound good? I use it on every track to some capacity. I'm all game but I can't find any. I'm truly thinking about just getting the Duende Native as soon as it drops. I have ALOT of plugins, BTW.

I've at least demo'd almost all of the plugins out there. McDSP's G channel was nice but not fast enough for me (you need to toggle between 2 screens to use it). URS's channelstrip pro was nice but didn't sound as good to me. I have a buch of great standalone EQ's and comps but the channelstrip feature helps me fly through mixes and keep my cost down, it's the main reason I have all the clients that I do (time/cost ratio).

96 tracks is plenty for me. The largest session I have mixed to date was 73 I think. If it goes larger, I'm mixing it at a bigger, local spot.

Thanks for the input!
First of all, it is nice to stir things up a bit with some truth, and get an intelligent response back!

I must say up front that the Avid and Waves business models are something I am incredibly opposed to, I make no secret of that around here. As for the E Channel Strip, I have UAD stuff and would prefer theirs, though I am not a fan of the SSL strip unless it is on a real console. There really is a difference. Your reasoning for using a "strip" is logical and I get it. My workflow is probably different, I pick and choose my artists, and hand pick the Eq, comp, etc, that best fits the tone and dynamic of the track. It is not always a fast process, but it is rewarding one. I really like the PSP stuff, for me it is the top of the heap as far as most plugins go. The sQuad EQ bundle is amazing, you can find a tool for just about every situation between the five different choices. Their Old Timer comp is incredibly versatile, and my go-to vocal comp among other uses. Their MasterComp is the best non-hardware 2 Buss comp I have ever heard, and blows away many top hardware choices as well. It is somewhere between the A-Designs Nail and the Charter Oak SCL 1 in plugin form. I have a ton of plugins, have tried nearly everything out there, and could easliy exist on the PSP plugins alone if I had to. I love the Tritone Digital Hydratone for mix and the also the Angeltone EQ for mastering. Too bad they are not available right now, but soon they should be recoded. Hope I answered some of your question.
Old 26th December 2010
  #17
I just got PT9 and got WUPped!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound
Wow, in the shorts from PT and Waves at the same time! Ouch!!! There are lots of good/better DAWs out there to choose from, and definitely much better and cheaper plugs that you can own instead of rent forever! Why settle for 96 tracks and really expensive, marginally good plugs that continue to reach into your wallet?
The reaction to pt9 is just proof that you can't please everyone. "settling" for 96 stereo tracks? Personally I don't find that a limitation...

You never "own" plugins. Everyone charges for updates sooner or later, the waves model is just one way of doing it. "better" is a matter of opinion - for my money there's not many better options, just different. Duende is NOT an E/G emulation, it's a c200 emulation, and so not a direct replacement for the waves version. Not to mention the whole hardware dongle issue.

I just don't understand all the waves hate. You'd think no other manufacturer charged for updates. If Antares update twice in 1 year, you pay twice (and that's a $200 update for one plugin). If you get waves updates 10 times in 1 year, you pay once - for all plugins together, including new plugins released. For the bigger bundles, that's a great deal. I think those moaning just don't understand how it works. You just don't have to pay wup unless you specifically need to - I think there's still some who think it's an ongoing yearly charge.
Old 26th December 2010
  #18
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
The reaction to pt9 is just proof that you can't please everyone. "settling" for 96 stereo tracks? Personally I don't find that a limitation...

You never "own" plugins. Everyone charges for updates sooner or later, the waves model is just one way of doing it. "better" is a matter of opinion - for my money there's not many better options, just different. Duende is NOT an E/G emulation, it's a c200 emulation, and so not a direct replacement for the waves version. Not to mention the whole hardware dongle issue.

I just don't understand all the waves hate. You'd think no other manufacturer charged for updates. If Antares update twice in 1 year, you pay twice (and that's a $200 update for one plugin). If you get waves updates 10 times in 1 year, you pay once - for all plugins together, including new plugins released. For the bigger bundles, that's a great deal. I think those moaning just don't understand how it works. You just don't have to pay wup unless you specifically need to - I think there's still some who think it's an ongoing yearly charge.
Never paid for a PSP update, Waves would be hard pressed to come even close to the quality of their plugs. Not to mention (no offense to anyone else intended), that I'm just not a fan of their plugs in general, and I have tried most all of them. PSP also allows you to own your plugs, even giving loyalty discounts to their repeat customers. They do an excellent job of customer service, with great response time. There are other companies that do this kind of business as well. I just don't believe you have to operate the way Waves does to make a profit.
Old 26th December 2010
  #19
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
I just don't believe you have to operate the way Waves does to make a profit.
The same thing can be said about paying hundreds of dollars for DSP cards for UAD plug ins, and then be limited to how many you can actually use on your project. Look at any pro studio out there in Europe, or the US. Any pro studio that uses a DAW and works with plug ins, you will be hard pressed not to find a studio that does not use Waves. All the big engineers you find out there use them. Here in Nashville, the studios love Wave plug ins. The support they give is great, and I have yet to find another company that has plug ins that have such great EQ's and compressors. That does not mean no other company out there is good. Far from it, I am aware of a lot of small company's that make great plug ins.

I updated to version 7 and had to pay $200. So I used the $200 credit I received when updated and purchased the API series plug ins. I currently am working on Windows XP. When my next computer has Windows 7, I won't have to update any WUP because version 7 already is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit. No worries here.
Old 27th December 2010
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
it is quite true that many software makers charge for updates.

also some software makers stop updating all-together. just look at Native Instruments B4 and a clutch of others.

I suppose, as irritating as paying for updates is, at least Waves wont tend to drop the software in the future.
Old 27th December 2010
  #21
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Not to mention Waves is usually the first one to have everything updated for new OS's and DAW versions.
Old 27th December 2010
  #22
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Beyersound's Avatar
Looks like a lot of posters here have a lot of cash, etc, invested in Waves products.................
Old 27th December 2010
  #23
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube World View Post
The same thing can be said about paying hundreds of dollars for DSP cards for UAD plug ins, and then be limited to how many you can actually use on your project.
The UAD model is much different than Waves. The DSP cards are the security that keeps people from pirating your software, and allows the user to actually "buy" the plugins and not just "rent" them. UAD by the way, does not charge anything for regular software updates, they also update quite regularly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tube World View Post
I updated to version 7 and had to pay $200. So I used the $200 credit I received when updated and purchased the API series plug ins. I currently am working on Windows XP. When my next computer has Windows 7, I won't have to update any WUP because version 7 already is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit. No worries here.
I just updated all my plugins to Win7 64bit from XP, and it didn't cost me a dime (UAD, PSP, Tritone, Apulsoft, etc, etc)! I also upgraded, (not a basic software version update!) Cubase SX3 to C5 for $199 (see how much a two version PTHD or jump to Native will cost you!), they won't charge for any of their updates, and no 96 track, or hardware/dsp card limits!
Old 27th December 2010
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh's View Post
Waves Update Plan. Their "plan" to make you regularly pay them for a software that doesn't get updates.
That's not true. They update the software frequently (at least on the
Merc Bundle side of things).

As the poster notes .. he needed an update to get the bundle to work
with Windows 7 and PT9.

jeff
Old 27th December 2010
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
The UAD model is much different than Waves. The DSP cards are the security that keeps people from pirating your software, and allows the user to actually "buy" the plugins and not just "rent" them. UAD by the way, does not charge anything for regular software updates, they also update quite regularly.

I just updated all my plugins to Win7 64bit from XP, and it didn't cost me a dime (UAD, PSP, Tritone, Apulsoft, etc, etc)! I also upgraded, (not a basic software version update!) Cubase SX3 to C5 for $199 (see how much a two version PTHD or jump to Native will cost you!), they won't charge for any of their updates, and no 96 track, or hardware/dsp card limits!
So, how much did you spend on your UAD hardware?

jeff
Old 27th December 2010
  #26
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarkham View Post
So, how much did you spend on your UAD hardware?

jeff
A mere fraction of what the Mercury bundle costs!hehhehheh

Actually, for about the price of the Gold Bundle I have 3 UAD cards and about 25-30 plugs, many of them premium.
Old 27th December 2010
  #27
I just got PT9 and got WUPped!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound
The UAD model is much different than Waves. The DSP cards are the security that keeps people from pirating your software, and allows the user to actually "buy" the plugins and not just "rent" them. UAD by the way, does not charge anything for regular software updates, they also update quite regularly.
Quote:
I updated to version 7 and had to pay $200. So I used the $200 credit I received when updated and purchased the API series plug ins. I currently am wo
I just updated all my plugins to Win7 64bit from XP, and it didn't cost me a dime (UAD, PSP, Tritone, Apulsoft, etc, etc)! I also upgraded, (not a basic software version update!) Cubase SX3 to C5 for $199 (see how much a two version PTHD or jump to Native will cost you!), they won't charge for any of their updates, and no 96 track, or hardware/dsp card limits!
A 2 version jump pt le to pt9 was about $200 I believe. Cubase is not the equivalent product to pt hd - that's nuendo. Likewise, you don't get any of the benefits of hd cards with cubase.

Funny how you mention the limitations of dsp cards when referring to pt hd, yet praise it when it cones to uad? Referring to your uad plugs vs waves gold bundle, I notice you fail to mention how many plugins you could run of each at once. Not to mention that I paid less than the gold retail for my platinum bundle, and probably my scc bundle as well. I don't believe you can ever get a 60% discount on uad products, as is regularly available on waves products. Your pricing comparisons are way off.
Old 28th December 2010
  #28
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
A 2 version jump pt le to pt9 was about $200 I believe. Cubase is not the equivalent product to pt hd - that's nuendo. Likewise, you don't get any of the benefits of hd cards with cubase.

Funny how you mention the limitations of dsp cards when referring to pt hd, yet praise it when it cones to uad? Referring to your uad plugs vs waves gold bundle, I notice you fail to mention how many plugins you could run of each at once. Not to mention that I paid less than the gold retail for my platinum bundle, and probably my scc bundle as well. I don't believe you can ever get a 60% discount on uad products, as is regularly available on waves products. Your pricing comparisons are way off.
Is there some reason you seem to habitually attack me from a Protools/Waves fanboy perspective? I answered the OPs question, gave my opinion backed by actual experience with the subject. I am not a fanboy, ask anyone who has really known me for an appreciable amount of time during my 30+ years in this business.

Cubase, Nuendo, Logic, Protools HD, and Native are all excellent DAWs, and except for maybe some peoples track count needs, all leave little or nothing to be desired for typical music production needs. UAD, Waves, PSP, Softube, Cytomic, Tritone, etc, all make great plugins. You can make great sounding music with all of them. It seems the people that have the most money invested in PT/Waves seem to be the most defensive of them. Me, I could care less about what name is on a product, but if I feel it is unnecessarily emptying my wallet, I'm going to take issue with it, not choose it, and certainly not endorse it. I'm sure you're a good guy, don't understand the hostility. I'd much rather be talking about music over a pint or two (and maybe a curry), not fighting over gear/software choices with you.
Old 29th December 2010
  #29
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NoVi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi View Post
Agreed, yesterday I decided to upgrade from V6 to V7 (Diamond bundle). For $ 200 I could add the V-Comp en Pulgtec plug ins and got a $200 voucher for other plug ins. BTW I ordered online.
Although I know it's not gonna make my popular around here I noticed that you can redeem your vouchers even if the product is on a special sale. So I could get the Maserati Collection for $ 298 ($ 498 is the current price and I could redeem my $ 200 WUP voucher....

Generally spoken from now on I probably only will buy plugins around Christmas time, seems like almost every plug-in maker has special deals towards the end of the year!
Old 29th December 2010
  #30
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E.rOk.stA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
First of all, it is nice to stir things up a bit with some truth, and get an intelligent response back!

I must say up front that the Avid and Waves business models are something I am incredibly opposed to, I make no secret of that around here. As for the E Channel Strip, I have UAD stuff and would prefer theirs, though I am not a fan of the SSL strip unless it is on a real console. There really is a difference. Your reasoning for using a "strip" is logical and I get it. My workflow is probably different, I pick and choose my artists, and hand pick the Eq, comp, etc, that best fits the tone and dynamic of the track. It is not always a fast process, but it is rewarding one. I really like the PSP stuff, for me it is the top of the heap as far as most plugins go. The sQuad EQ bundle is amazing, you can find a tool for just about every situation between the five different choices. Their Old Timer comp is incredibly versatile, and my go-to vocal comp among other uses. Their MasterComp is the best non-hardware 2 Buss comp I have ever heard, and blows away many top hardware choices as well. It is somewhere between the A-Designs Nail and the Charter Oak SCL 1 in plugin form. I have a ton of plugins, have tried nearly everything out there, and could easliy exist on the PSP plugins alone if I had to. I love the Tritone Digital Hydratone for mix and the also the Angeltone EQ for mastering. Too bad they are not available right now, but soon they should be recoded. Hope I answered some of your question.
I have my eye on PSP's sQuad eq bundle already! I appreciate you mentioning them. I'm gonna have to demo some of their stuff. It always seems to pop up.
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