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Nebula R2R in same league as UAD Studer A800 plugin?
Old 24th December 2010
  #61
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olivialand's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
From what I understand - the sound is the same - but the workflow is slower and more CPU usage...I found these for you - but you can also ask in the new forum: • Index page

Acusticaudio Forums-viewtopic-difference between Nebula2 - Nebula3 [QST]

acustica audio nebula and mastering?

KVR: Nebula 2 vs Nebula 3?

EDIT: I just remembered - some 3rd party developers require Nebula 3 Pro - at least I know Alex B does....but analoginthebox and cdsoundmaster are ok with Nebula 2 as far as I know...ultimate answer to be safe is to ask in the Nebula forum...as things change over time...
Swan808,

Thanks for the info and the links!
Old 24th December 2010
  #62
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And Then There Were None. Nebula society would be an interesting subject to research for social psychologists.
Old 24th December 2010
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaigen View Post
And Then There Were None. Nebula society would be an interesting subject to research for social psychologists.
I think its too easy these days to tarnish a group/product simply because you get bored of the enthusiasm that you dont share...


Get the Psychologists in to cure this madness!!! This insideous cult of Nebula fans are taking over the world with their enthusiasm, salient argument and love of good sound!!!

There must be a problem...because its annoying to see so much positivity and support.
Old 24th December 2010
  #64
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olivialand's Avatar
 

I have a more pedestrian question about Nebula, and it relates to purchasing the software. I've noticed that products on the Acustica site (and on the sites of some of the third-party developers) have their prices expressed only in Euros. I live in the United States. I assume that once you start going through the checkout process there is an option to pay with dollars. Or am I wrong?
Old 24th December 2010
  #65
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Yes, buying the software is easy (I'm in the states) but be warned; it can take a couple of days to get the software registered (and thereby usable) once you have it installed. I made the mistake of buying Nebula on a weekend and then didn't get my registration file until well into the next week. The anticipation was killing me.
Old 24th December 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
I think its too easy these days to tarnish a group/product simply because you get bored of the enthusiasm that you dont share...


Get the Psychologists in to cure this madness!!! This insideous cult of Nebula fans are taking over the world with their enthusiasm, salient argument and love of good sound!!!

There must be a problem...because its annoying to see so much positivity and support.
Since I hear the sonic signature of Volterra Kernel, I can't be enthusiastic about Volterra Kernel like you are, very unfortunately. To me, your opinion, "Volterra Kernel is completely different method that does not have any sound by itself " is just another techno voodoo.

You must realize that your false statements about Nebula, like referring Plec's test, actually tarnishes Nebula itself. R2R has a different strength than A800 and they are completely different sounding plugins, whatever they are molded by. I will keep supporting Nebula different way than you do. Nebula is a good program and probably underrated, in my opinion, but considering its less than sophisticated user interface and shortcomings like CPU hog, latency and lack of professional services, current market status and price would be pretty fair, although Nebula has a bright future, as I said before.

I hope this is my final post in this thread.
Old 12th August 2012
  #67
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaigen View Post
Plec's test is not valid, and Plec himself has already admitted his mistake. UAD A800 is not intended to use on the mix bus. Yes, UAD sounded bad on those tests, but does anyone use 2 tracks of 2" 24 trk tape machine for the master bus? It will make sound just bad. Plec's test has only proved that UAD can emulate this hard fact more correctly than Nebula.

Although I'm not a Nebula hater and I even use Nebula for a few things, the posts from Nebula believer like this always draw my attention, because it is super-biased and it is not telling the truth at all. And it is quite obvious that this poster have never used UAD A800 for himself.

Nebula chokes and degrades the signal like any other digital or analog processing. How someone can believe that Nebula is the only signal processor on the earth that is completely transparent? Also, many of Nebula users know that Nebula has a weakness for emulating non linear behavior of comp or tape. I think Nebula has a bright future, but Nebula technology is still immature and it has its own limitations, as Nebula speaks for itself.
(double face-palm)
Old 12th August 2012
  #68
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaigen View Post
Great. I prefer the plastic sound of VCC, and you prefer MUCH more analogue sound of Nebula. To be honest, I'm getting tired of responding each Nebula believer. And I said I was not a Nebula hater, but I start hating Nebula because of those believers...I'm wondering why they are so super-biased...
im sure there is a reason yea may be because nebula delivers exactly what they are looking for?
Old 12th August 2012
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
im sure there is a reason yea may be because nebula delivers exactly what they are looking for?
I own both Nebula 3 Pro and 2 UAD-2 quads, (and VCC, very similar to UAD in resource usage and workflow).
I run a 980x hexcore with 12Gb on Win 7 64 so hardware resources are not much of a factor.

Here's what I think re: the Nebula "believer" thing.

Nebula sounds incredible, especially the AITB EQ's and the VNXT EMT 140.

The Believers:
Some folks are rightly wowed about the price / performance ratio.
I totally get this.

The Rest:
The high latency completely negates using most of this stuff for tracking.
The workflow is, well, to put it politely, challenging.
I totally get this.

So, if you work MIDI, techno, that sort of thing, Nebula shines, because you don't worry so much about live tracking, etc., and you are in "mix" mindset much more often.

If you record live musicians, need to quickly get audible feeback for a subtle parameter change, (e.g. quickly A/B ing 2 tape formulas), then UAD shines.

So, ideally you might think of tracking with UAD and mixing with Nebula.
I have tried this and found:
The Nebula workflow really slows you down.
When it does sound better it usually (though not always) is not worth the extra hassle.
Old 12th August 2012
  #70
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I own both Nebula 3 Pro and 2 UAD-2 quads, (and VCC, very similar to UAD in resource usage and workflow).
I run a 980x hexcore with 12Gb on Win 7 64 so hardware resources are not much of a factor.

Here's what I think re: the Nebula "believer" thing.

Nebula sounds incredible, especially the AITB EQ's and the VNXT EMT 140.

The Believers:
Some folks are rightly wowed about the price / performance ratio.
I totally get this.

The Rest:
The high latency completely negates using most of this stuff for tracking.
The workflow is, well, to put it politely, challenging.
I totally get this.

So, if you work MIDI, techno, that sort of thing, Nebula shines, because you don't worry so much about live tracking, etc., and you are in "mix" mindset much more often.

If you record live musicians, need to quickly get audible feeback for a subtle parameter change, (e.g. quickly A/B ing 2 tape formulas), then UAD shines.

So, ideally you might think of tracking with UAD and mixing with Nebula.
I have tried this and found:
The Nebula workflow really slows you down.
When it does sound better it usually (though not always) is not worth the extra hassle.
Thanks Geoff i really appreciate your input !

so what you say is you use UAD for temporarily tracking and then end up mixing with nebula because it sounds better to you which the same theory as mine, i actually track vocals/ac.guitars/violins maybe through an rme aio-RNP-sm7b/c414 signal, but i don't understand why people would use plugins during tracking as i would take a clean record first then worry about mixing later, i think this is the proper way how it should be done correct?
Old 12th August 2012
  #71
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
Thanks Geoff i really appreciate your input !

so what you say is you use UAD for temporarily tracking and then end up mixing with nebula because it sounds better to you which the same theory as mine, i actually track vocals/ac.guitars/violins maybe through an rme aio-RNP-sm7b/c414 signal, but i don't understand why people would use plugins during tracking as i would take a clean record first then worry about mixing later, i think this is the proper way how it should be done correct?
Not quite, I say it is not usually worth the extra trouble of switching from the UAD stuff which was used during tracking to the Nebula stuff during mixing.

Usually, although not always, it is not worth the trouble of switching - a good example of when it is sometimes worth it - the VNXT EMT 140 - this plug may or may not sound better on a track that requires that EMT 140 sound -- both the VNXT and UAD emulations are excellent, just different.

As far as why to use plugins during tracking -- one word -- inspiration.

Typically we don't print the FX, they are there so that the performer hears an inspirational sound, once again important only in the case where you are capturing live performances, which, around here, is close to 100% of the time
Old 12th August 2012
  #72
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Not quite, I say it is not usually worth the extra trouble of switching from the UAD stuff which was used during tracking to the Nebula stuff during mixing.

Usually, although not always, it is not worth the trouble of switching - a good example of when it is sometimes worth it - the VNXT EMT 140 - this plug may or may not sound better on a track that requires that EMT 140 sound -- both the VNXT and UAD emulations are excellent, just different.


a little bit confused now, you said you'd only use nebula for mixing after tracking with uad, am i missing something?
Old 12th August 2012
  #73
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
a little bit confused now, you said you'd only use nebula for mixing after tracking with uad, am i missing something?
Forgive me for not being more clear.

Let's try this again.

Scenario:
Overdubbing vocal.

Singer wants reverb in the headphones to "get a vibe" for inspiration.

Add UAD 140 plugin, but DO NOT print the reverb to the track.

Track complete, switching to mix mode.

Should I consider switching to Nebula at this time?

Sometimes -- maybe the VNXT 140 is PURRFECT for this track.

But, more often than not the inferior workflow of Nebula negates any minor sound differences.

Notice I said sometimes.

There have been some occasions where the sound was so much better for a particular track that it is worth it to bite the bullet and switch to Nebula, accept the workflow issues, and use it.
Old 12th August 2012
  #74
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Forgive me for not being more clear.

Let's try this again.

Scenario:
Overdubbing vocal.

Singer wants reverb in the headphones to "get a vibe" for inspiration.

Add UAD 140 plugin, but DO NOT print the reverb to the track.

Track complete, switching to mix mode.

Should I consider switching to Nebula at this time?

Sometimes -- maybe the VNXT 140 is PURRFECT for this track.

But, more often than not the inferior workflow of Nebula negates any minor sound differences.

Notice I said sometimes.

There have been some occasions where the sound was so much better for a particular track that it is worth it to bite the bullet and switch to Nebula, accept the workflow issues, and use it.
i get it now..

if you had to choose only 1 of the two, which 1 would you keep?
Old 12th August 2012
  #75
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
i get it now..

if you had to choose only 1 of the two, which 1 would you keep?
I don't think I could answer that in a meaningful way without thinking about the pricing.

If I could only afford Nebula, I'd be very pleased that there was an offering of this quality at the price, it's a no-brainer.

If I could afford a UAD setup, then adding Nebula AND a bunch of good libraries is about the cost of ONE upper end UAD plugin, so that's a no-brainer too.

But I will tell you that in a professional situation with paying clients "out on the floor" latency and workflow count A LOT -- UAD is your friend in these circumstances.
Old 12th August 2012
  #76
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I don't think I could answer that in a meaningful way without thinking about the pricing.

If I could only afford Nebula, I'd be very pleased that there was an offering of this quality at the price, it's a no-brainer.

If I could afford a UAD setup, then adding Nebula AND a bunch of good libraries is about the cost of ONE upper end UAD plugin, so that's a no-brainer too.

But I will tell you that in a professional situation with paying clients "out on the floor" latency and workflow count A LOT -- UAD is your friend in these circumstances.
hmm so i see your main concerns (not only you but most of the guys) about nebula is the latency/cpu usage...but you think that it's almost the same quality as the UAD stuff but at the price of workflow/latency..

do you think getting a high end pc with a powerful CPU/lots of ram may solve this problem? i consider my pc to be quiet powerful (i7-3820/32gb/rme hdspe aio), i do have UAD 1e btw with some very good plugins like Precision Multiband,Neve® 88RS, Fairchild, Cambridge EQ, etc... and i do really like them... but i am kinda contemplating between wether to update for a duo and buy their reverb plugins+their tape emulations which would cost me $1000 at-least if i am lucky... or whether i take the nebula route and get all that for $300-400 max heh
Old 12th August 2012
  #77
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
hmm so i see your main concerns (not only you but most of the guys) about nebula is the latency/cpu usage...but you think that it's almost the same quality as the UAD stuff but at the price of workflow/latency..

do you think getting a high end pc with a powerful CPU/lots of ram may solve this problem? i consider my pc to be quiet powerful (i7-3820/32gb/rme hdspe aio), i do have UAD 1e btw with some very good plugins like Precision Multiband,Neve® 88RS, Fairchild, Cambridge EQ, etc... and i do really like them... but i am kinda contemplating between wether to update for a duo and buy their reverb plugins+their tape emulations which would cost me $1000 at-least if i am lucky... or whether i take the nebula route and get all that for $300-400 max
If you recheck my first post you will see that our hardware setups are similar.
Indeed, I built this box over 2 years ago with Nebula specifically in mind -- even all that horsepower doesn't get it to a real-time usable state for me.

Yeah, that's a tough question on the UAD-1 upgrade.
You have to weigh in all the things that matter to YOU.

I went for 2 Quads in that insane deal they had last summer, and I routinely go over 50% usage -- in other words I'm into the second Quad on 30-50 track projects.

Do you have a freeze track or equivalent with your DAW?
Old 12th August 2012
  #78
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
If you recheck my first post you will see that our hardware setups are similar.
Indeed, I built this box over 2 years ago with Nebula specifically in mind -- even all that horsepower doesn't get it to a real-time usable state for me.

Yeah, that's a tough question on the UAD-1 upgrade.
You have to weigh in all the things that matter to YOU.

I went for 2 Quads in that insane deal they had last summer, and I routinely go over 50% usage -- in other words I'm into the second Quad on 30-50 track projects.

Do you have a freeze track or equivalent with your DAW?
bet your talking about the quad/studer/fatso deal yea? i missed this deal as i'm new into UAD stuff still and apparently their prices are the highest right.. now

i wouldnt mind freezing or printing during mixing, but only 1 or 2 times max, so that means a session has to handle quiet alot instances for once..of course in a perfect world i'd rather not have to print anything while mixing and have it all done in one take and only bounce for the final mastering stage only, but thats too much spoilt for our current technology and computer's power i think..

btw do you think bouncing to aiff while mixing and continue mixing with the new aiff file would degrade the audio quality?

Last edited by fito_88; 12th August 2012 at 01:57 PM.. Reason: miss-typing
Old 12th August 2012
  #79
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
bet your talking about the quad/studer/fatso deal yea? i missed this deal as i'm new into UAD stuff still and apparently their are the highest right.. now

i wouldnt mind freezing or printing during mixing, but only 1 or 2 times max, so that means a session has to handle quiet alot instances for once..of course in a perfect world i'd rather not have to print anything while mixing and have it all done in one take and only bounce for the final mastering stage only, but thats too much spoilt for our current technology and computer's power i think..

btw do you think bouncing to aiff while mixing and continue mixing with the new aiff file would degrade the audio quality?
Actually it was the Studer/Massive Passive/EMT 250 deal, but, yeah, that one

As far as bounce degrading quality, that's why I use freeze ( I use Reaper which has the option of storing freeze files at 32 bit floating point )

Just before we start working on, say a vocal, I freeze all the other tracks getting the CPU load as low as possible.
Then I set the buffers as low as I can -- depends on the track -- vocalists like reverb and are willing to tolerate a bit of latency to get it.
On the other hand, bass players, drummers etc. like buffers at 32 without double buffering -- about 2.1 ms round trip on my Lynx Aurora / AES16e.

So the freeze (bounce) is only temporary while tracking.

I then unfreeze everything for mix and see if I can max out 2 Quads whilst keeping the production from getting over the top
Old 12th August 2012
  #80
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Indeed, I built this box over 2 years ago with Nebula specifically in mind -- even all that horsepower doesn't get it to a real-time usable state for me.
Yes, but all that horsepower is enough to run about all the Nebula you want with latency. When mixing... Nebula is not really all that CPU intensive with enough latency, in my experience (i7-960). And, to me, the sounds and sound quality you can get with Nebula almost trumps all other plug-ins. I say almost, because there are some things you can't really do with Nebula... like precise or notch EQing, or heavy compression with precise timing, or some of the nicer algorithmic reverb sounds (although most Nebula reverbs are really special). But in instances where you need that, you can usually use the plug-ins you would normally use for that, and slap in a Nebula instance at the end with tape, tube or... say, a Poolteq circuit with no EQ... and Nebula still adds that certain something to the sound you usually can't get with normal algorithmic plug-ins.

In fact... now that I think about it... someone on a budget could do extremely well with most DAWs OE plug-ins, and only add various Nebula sets at strategic places in the chains and mix, and get really high quality mixing ITB.

Of course, YMMV.
Old 12th August 2012
  #81
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Actually it was the Studer/Massive Passive/EMT 250 deal, but, yeah, that one

As far as bounce degrading quality, that's why I use freeze ( I use Reaper which has the option of storing freeze files at 32 bit floating point )

Just before we start working on, say a vocal, I freeze all the other tracks getting the CPU load as low as possible.
Then I set the buffers as low as I can -- depends on the track -- vocalists like reverb and are willing to tolerate a bit of latency to get it.
On the other hand, bass players, drummers etc. like buffers at 32 without double buffering -- about 2.1 ms round trip on my Lynx Aurora / AES16e.

So the freeze (bounce) is only temporary while tracking.

I then unfreeze everything for mix and see if I can max out 2 Quads whilst keeping the production from getting over the top
you got the aes16e too lol its similar to the AIO, we almost have the same setup except that i have DAC1 192 for D/A and use my aio A/D heh.... so you think that bouncing degrades the quality too as me.. hmm .. yea i know vocals(me) get happy when we hear some reverb while we're tracking heh but for other instruments like ac.guitars its almost impossible to record with more than 7-8ms RTL

ill probably follow the freezing technique from now then
Old 12th August 2012
  #82
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
Yes, but all that horsepower is enough to run about all the Nebula you want with latency. When mixing... Nebula is not really all that CPU intensive with enough latency, in my experience (i7-960). And, to me, the sounds and sound quality you can get with Nebula almost trumps all other plug-ins. I say almost, because there are some things you can't really do with Nebula... like precise or notch EQing, or heavy compression with precise timing, or some of the nicer algorithmic reverb sounds (although most Nebula reverbs are really special). But in instances where you need that, you can usually use the plug-ins you would normally use for that, and slap in a Nebula instance at the end with tape, tube or... say, a Poolteq circuit with no EQ... and Nebula still adds that certain something to the sound you usually can't get with normal algorithmic plug-ins.

In fact... now that I think about it... someone on a budget could do extremely well with most DAWs OE plug-ins, and only add various Nebula sets at strategic places in the chains and mix, and get really high quality mixing ITB.

Of course, YMMV.
Hi

i thought Eq'ing and reverbs is where nebula really excel than other plugins including UAD, stuff like the mamouth eq, aib, alex B which i didn't demo myself but from comments i read from ppl that these are unbeatable at the present...

and if you don't mind me asking, what's your pc specs and your preferred mixing plugins?
Old 12th August 2012
  #83
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88 View Post
...but for other instruments like ac.guitars its almost impossible to record with more than 7-8ms RLL

ill probably follow the freezing technique from now then
I really can't get into recording with anything much over 3ms. 5ms, and it just sounds way off to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
So the freeze (bounce) is only temporary while tracking.

I then unfreeze everything for mix and see if I can max out 2 Quads whilst keeping the production from getting over the top
Yeah, that freezing tracks with plug-ins while tracking and then unfreeze for mixing is a great idea. I hadn't thought of using the freeze function exactly like that before. Thanks for the tip!

Old 12th August 2012
  #84
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
I really can't get into recording with anything much over 3ms. 5ms, and it just sounds way off to me.

i dont really think anyone can achieve less than 5ms RTL latency these days, i think AD/DA conversion adds more latency that DAWs just wont show, plus the input/output latencies in mind.. so even if your DAW tells you you're on 3ms overall latency don't get so excited because you're probably on 3-4ms more latency but you don't know it heh
Old 12th August 2012
  #85
Lives for gear
Bump SSD VTM

Hey don't know where your at but you can buy UA used and have you considered the SSD VTM tape plug ? Runs native well reviewed , low cpu and about $200 ?

Free demo if you have an iloc2.

Kcat
Old 12th August 2012
  #86
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88 View Post
i dont really think anyone can achieve less than 5ms RLL latency these days, i think AD/DA conversion adds more latency that DAWs just wont show, plus the input/output latencies in mind.. so even if your DAW tells you you're on 3ms overall latency don't get so excited because you're probably on 3-4ms more latency but you don't know it heh
Yeah, I know. That's really what I meant... I can't really track with my DAW being set at anything over 3ms. I've really never bothered to verify what the overally total latency is... except to have the DAW automatically compensate for input/output latencies, and then sometimes check the files' time/position on the time line after they're recorded if needed.
Old 12th August 2012
  #87
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kcatthedog View Post
Hey don't know where your at but you can buy UA used and have you considered the SSD VTM tape plug ? Runs native well reviewed , low cpu and about $200 ?

Free demo if you have an iloc2.

Kcat
Hey yep i was talking about used UAD all the time, a used duo= $650, reverbs pack is another $360 and lets say only the studer a800 is another $350 so we're over the $1000 limit already

nah never heard about the SSD VTM tape i'll have a look at it
Old 12th August 2012
  #88
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88
i dont really think anyone can achieve less than 5ms RLL latency these days, i think AD/DA conversion adds more latency that DAWs just wont show, plus the input/output latencies in mind.. so even if your DAW tells you you're on 3ms overall latency don't get so excited because you're probably on 3-4ms more latency but you don't know it
Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut
eah, I know. That's really what I meant... I can't really track with my DAW being set at anything over 3ms
Nope, I get .7ms reported by the DAW.

Round trip is 2.1 ms
.7 ms in
.7 ms out
.7 ms mucking about in the hardware, FPGA's etc.

That's with buffers at 32 and double buffering unchecked.

In other words as tight as it will go.

And it runs just fine that tight as long as I follow the tricks I mentioned earlier.
Old 12th August 2012
  #89
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Nope, I get .7ms reported by the DAW.

Round trip is 2.1 ms
.7 ms in
.7 ms out
.7 ms mucking about in the hardware, FPGA's etc.

That's with buffers at 32 and double buffering unchecked.

In other words as tight as it will go.

And it runs just fine that tight as long as I follow the tricks I mentioned earlier.
true that.. So it's never below 5ms, and yes 32 buffers during tracking is fine, but during mixing it's always better to increase the buffer to 512 or even to 1024 as latency wouldn't matter much then
Old 12th August 2012
  #90
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fito_88 View Post
...and if you don't mind me asking, what's your pc specs and your preferred mixing plugins?
Oops... sorry... didn't see your question. I use the typical ITB slutz plug-ins... Sonalksis, Waves, Softube, pretty much all Plug-in Alliance, PSP, Lexicon, Eventide, FabFilter, Audio Damage, DDMF, Nugen, U-he, Klanghelm, UBK, Abbey Road, Powercore VSS3, DVR2, MD3, Brickwall, NonLin2, CL1B... plus tons of "effects" plug-ins. But there's still nothing like topping any of 'em off with something like Nebula with Doc Fear, Fenix, PoolTeq, Alex B's Tape & Saturation, Peak-200A, Drum Compressor, Henry Olonga's Buzzard, Cupwise Temolos, or especially any VNXT reverbs, or the new CDSoundmaster Nebula powered Vintage Tube & Tube Booster plug-ins. Any new algorithmic VST EQs, compressors, reverbs, saturation have to be pretty special for me to even want them any more, because I know the ones I already have, topped off with Nebula where needed, get me about anywhere I wanna go.



Oh yeah... and PC is i7-960, Win7 x64, 12GB RAM, Powercore PCI x2.
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