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PT9 I/O not showing ADAT outs? Audio Interfaces
Old 18th December 2010
  #1
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PT9 I/O not showing ADAT outs?

When you hit the default setting on the Digi 003 with PT9 it only shows the 8 analog outs with two s/pdif outs. I can't get it to show me the 8 ADAT in and outs. The "boxes for 8 more channels show on the in/out but no ADAT channels.

Now get this... when I load in an older 002 P/T session I can get all 18 I/O to show up, however I get a ton of clicks and pops and the optical and s/pdif in's and outs get reversed. Weird...

Also in my Mac "audio" interface under preferences it now say I'm connected to a 002 rack via the firewire!!! I've never had an 002 hooked up to this system... and I could not get it to see the 003 hooked up. How can the system see an 002 box via firewire when only an 003 box is hooked up?

I ended up having to start a new session using a Digi preset configuration when starting the session (in other words "I didn't use the previous sessions I/O settings to start). After I did this, the clicks and pops (tracking errors) stopped and the computers audio preferences show a 003 rack again. Again how was this possible to show an 002 rack connected via the firewire when only an 003 is being used???.

Anyway now the default I/O are back to showing just the 8 analog in's and outs and the s/pdif.... still no ADAT outs (or in's for that matter).

Anybody else encounter this? Anybody know if you can used the s/pdif in's and out's at the same time as the ADATs? I used to do this with my old 002 system but it looks like Avid may have disabled this function. I would loop out via s/pdif and back in via s/pdif and then monitor the digital outs via the ADAT optical out and use my own D/A converter (instead of Digi's).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Old 18th December 2010
  #2
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Avid customer support sucks ass! Over a half hour just trying to log on.

Search forever... with the worst search engine ever... in fact I've spent 6 hours so far trying to get an answer to something that should have NEVER changed from one box (002) to the other (003).

If anybody know how to get all 18 in's and out's of the 003 to show up in the I/O menu please let me know... thank you.
Old 18th December 2010
  #3
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Cool

Hope this doesn't sound ridiculous. I been through this as well. I had to make up a few for my new interface...Steinberg MR816x. So I have a Normal (8-AN/8-AD without SPDIF, and another config minus 2 ADAT channels since this interface only does 16 I/O with SPDIF.

I just ERASED THEM ALL and then took the time to start with the default, then make adjustments from there. I would delete some and reintro them myself manually and see what took. Back and Forth til they all show on the mixer. Took a while, but once It was done, I exported it immediately. Then chose the DO NOT USE THE I/O from last session (Unchecked it) and that was it. Good Luck.

Raj
Old 18th December 2010
  #4
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All right, this morning the computer is showing an 003 box but the audio is glitching like crazy.

I've been a user since Sound Tools and have never had any problem like this.

You can't use the digital outs in this software???

Help from anybody would be greatly appreciated.
Old 18th December 2010
  #5
Hmm, we've been using the 003 for ages and it's been fine with PT9.

Try re-installing the 003 driver? difficult to say otherwise without looking at it personally.
Old 18th December 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Hmm, we've been using the 003 for ages and it's been fine with PT9.

Try re-installing the 003 driver? difficult to say otherwise without looking at it personally.
yep, just got done re-installing the drivers and I get clicks and pops all over the place... this really blows. Never had this happen before and I've probably been through 10 upgrades over the years.

I'm about to rip the whole thing off and try a clean re-install.

If that doesn't work I'll have to go back to 8.4 until I get a card to handle the digital in and out from my Aurora 16VT.

btw I ran 8.X and an 003 for the last year with no problems and the default I/O showed everything, analog, s/pdif and ADAT. Now in PT9 it has changed... I hate it when these companies cripple their long term users... not the first time with Digi...
Old 18th December 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproduca View Post
Hope this doesn't sound ridiculous. I been through this as well. I had to make up a few for my new interface...Steinberg MR816x. So I have a Normal (8-AN/8-AD without SPDIF, and another config minus 2 ADAT channels since this interface only does 16 I/O with SPDIF.

I just ERASED THEM ALL and then took the time to start with the default, then make adjustments from there. I would delete some and reintro them myself manually and see what took. Back and Forth til they all show on the mixer. Took a while, but once It was done, I exported it immediately. Then chose the DO NOT USE THE I/O from last session (Unchecked it) and that was it. Good Luck.

Raj
Hi Raj,

Thanks for the reply... how do I rebuild the add the ADAT ins and outs when it won't even show me them? Know a trick?

Thank you.
Larry
Old 18th December 2010
  #8
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Cool

ALL else fails, DELETE ALL Paths til you have a blank slate. Go to COREAUDIO, make sure it sees your interface. It should say it's there. IF it doesn't, then you have to reinstalled JUST the drivers of 002/003. It won't do anything if CORE AUDIO doesn't see it. You DO have the NEW CoreAudio Icon? Take of the mirroring if it's checked. I had the problem with the MR816x, because it didn't see it. I have to use the MR's setup for it to work. You shouldn't have to with the DIGI though.

If thats OK, then DELETE all the PATHS in I/O and subpaths of course, then start from there. I've rebuilt many I/O's, for mBoxes to the 002R. The KEY is that COREAUDIO sees your interface. Check your prefs or anything pertaining, to find that 003. You can go to MIDI BEAT CLOCK (MIDI section) as well to see if it's there. Didn't bring my dongle out today for my laptop, so I can't really help you til I get to the studio later. I'll check back with you then.
Old 18th December 2010
  #9
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rob61's Avatar
 

Does PT9 work with a 002 rack, or do you have to buy additional hardware?
Old 18th December 2010
  #10
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theproduca's Avatar
 

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
Does PT9 work with a 002 rack, or do you have to buy additional hardware?
Works PERFECTLY if you want to STILL use it. I blew out my harness, decided to sell it and picked up the YAMAHA/STEINBERG piece. Pres sound better by far. Use 9 with MOSTLY any interface.
Old 18th December 2010
  #11
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Okay, so here is the latest...

Core Audio see's whatever I have plugged into it.

Did a complete uninstall... reinstalled the whole thing.... Nope random clicks and pops out the digital ports. Both s/pdif and optical ... which gives me 2 ch of adat coming out but doesn't show as such in the I/O menu... they show as s/pdif no matter what.

Went and tried re-installing the drivers... nope, clicks and pops...

So I go and get my old 002R and try putting that in the path... nope still has random clicks and pops out the digital chain...

This really blows. 2 days now on this problem...

btw... running this on a MacPro dual2.66 with 8 gigs or ram, snow leapord.

Problem only seems to be in the digital chain.
Old 18th December 2010
  #12
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Cool

And I assume you're using the internal clock in the 003? ADAT out to PT, then back? SPDIF the same way? I had the pops when I used a behringer for a minute. Just sent the ADAT out to 002, selected ADAT as my optical choice. But still got clicks, even with the AI-3. But when I came back to the units from PT, they went away. I had another AD converter for coming back. they both have to go and return to the unit.

BUT your problem is that ADAT I/O isn't there. Thats spooky. IS ADAT grayed out in the I/O, or just not showing? Just Analog and SPDIF are showing? Did you go to the MIDI studio to see if the 003 is showing there? On my way to the studio, well stay on this for you.
Old 18th December 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproduca View Post
And I assume you're using the internal clock in the 003? ADAT out to PT, then back? SPDIF the same way? I had the pops when I used a behringer for a minute. Just sent the ADAT out to 002, selected ADAT as my optical choice. But still got clicks, even with the AI-3. But when I came back to the units from PT, they went away. I had another AD converter for coming back. they both have to go and return to the unit.

BUT your problem is that ADAT I/O isn't there. Thats spooky. IS ADAT grayed out in the I/O, or just not showing? Just Analog and SPDIF are showing? Did you go to the MIDI studio to see if the 003 is showing there? On my way to the studio, well stay on this for you.
Thanks for all the tips. Here's the thing when I run PT 9 out the AES16 to my Aurora converters everything is fine... both A/D and D/A work flawless.

When route to the digital outs of the 003R (or 002R) I get the clicks and pops... random like a clocking issue but I'm only playing back audio here and have the digi 003 set to internal... very weird.

So I ripped PT9 off the system and put 8.0 back on... open up an older session done with and 002R running 7.4 software at the time (as I know this has all my routing set up with both s/dif and adat ins and outs ) and lo and behold I can either have the s/pdif outs or the adats out, but not both at the same time. One or the other is greyed out (this is with the 003R hardware) When I check the I/O menu you see all the routing there and none of it is greyed out. I just can't explain what is going on.

Off to the wifes x-mas party now but will pick this saga up in the morning.

I see a new Lynx digital card in my future and goodbye to the 003R (the 002R I'm about to give to my nephew)... then I'll just run P/T9 software and skip the headache.

Thanks again.
Old 18th December 2010
  #14
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Cool

I hear ya. Enjoy the party, after a drink or 2..if you drink, you may remeber something you haven't done. I'll bring my iLOK home tonight and I'll try and get at you tomorrow, BEFORE or AFTER the Eagles spank some BUTT!!! I know how it is, and wish I had someone to help me when I was in a bind........heh
Be careful out there.
Old 18th December 2010
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Avid customer support sucks ass!
I have to agree with this. Since this is high-end, let's assume for the moment that we're all professionals, and we have professional expectations. Imagine my surprise when we logged a ticket with Digi about the fact that a Sydec MADI interface (now SSL DeltaLink) was undetected by our new PT HD Native card and AVID said "We don't support 3rd party hardware" and closed the ticket.

That's not professional, and here's why: pro studios are full of 3rd party hardware. Heck, even the goddamn Mac holding this card is 3rd-party to AVID.

A pro outfit might say "wow...those worked great with PT HD 1-2-3. Can you send us the unit? We'd love to help you get up and running." And I would have gladly sent it.

A professional attitude is about solving problems, not about ignoring them, denying them, or disclaiming them.
Old 18th December 2010
  #16
I havent yet upgraded to PT9 but I'm guessing you have gone to setup i/o and changed the default settings so the i/o window says adat i/o rather than analogue/aes/spdif on the appropriate channels?
Old 19th December 2010
  #17
Gear Nut
 

hi,

i went through a very similar hassle the other day,
i got everything back to normal after doing the following:

first delete prefs and databases etc using the pt tech support utility,
then empty the trash,
restart the mac, 003r and the adat converter,
start pt9 and revert to default in the i/o settings,
and at last make sure the clock sources match...

sounds very simple but is definitely worth the try,
all the clicks and pops in my case were caused by old prefs somehow messing with the clock source...

fingers crossed.
Old 19th December 2010
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless View Post
I have to agree with this. Since this is high-end, let's assume for the moment that we're all professionals, and we have professional expectations. Imagine my surprise when we logged a ticket with Digi about the fact that a Sydec MADI interface (now SSL DeltaLink) was undetected by our new PT HD Native card and AVID said "We don't support 3rd party hardware" and closed the ticket.

That's not professional, and here's why: pro studios are full of 3rd party hardware. Heck, even the goddamn Mac holding this card is 3rd-party to AVID.

A pro outfit might say "wow...those worked great with PT HD 1-2-3. Can you send us the unit? We'd love to help you get up and running." And I would have gladly sent it.

A professional attitude is about solving problems, not about ignoring them, denying them, or disclaiming them.
Hmm. you bought an unsupported system (with reverse engineered hardware) and somehow think it's avid's job to support your hardware made by someone else?

Personally I think you should contact SSL. THEY'RE the ones who've provided the now non-working hardware.

Effectively, you've chosen to give your business to someone else, and then are surprised when the people you've partially snubbed aren't interested.

The Mac itself is 3rd party, but is supported and works. Try getting tech support for PT Native on a G5 - unsupported (cos it doesn't run SL) and you won't get any help!

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic about what you are and aren't entitled to. You've bought an unsupported (by avid at least) system - if it was their interface not working, then you'd be justified. If SSL were snubbing you having provided the product, you'd be justified. As it is, you should be talking to SSL about support since they built the non-working. It's their issue, not Avid's.

I don't think Avid are the perfect company by any means (their website is horrific, although I find their tech support very helpful), but this really isn't their fault. THEIR complete system works fine. It's SSL's contribution that doesn't. Try getting the Apple store to fix a PC - they're not going to do it are they?
Old 19th December 2010
  #19
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Cool

I don't think Avid are the perfect company by any means (their website is horrific, although I find their tech support very helpful.

I agree, had a problem setting up my midi, (though I rarely use it), but I just like everything working for the clients. I needed a Work Number to get this done for FREE....just crossgraded...that helped. Though I put the phone on speaker and waiting about 30minutes.....he stayed with me til it was done. $30 may be worth it depending on the severity of your problem, BUT...If you're in the middle of a session, well.......session over and give back a little money, OR a lot.
Old 19th December 2010
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Hmm. you bought an unsupported system (with reverse engineered hardware) and somehow think it's avid's job to support your hardware made by someone else?
Do you remember the good old days, when analog consoles were used to control analog tape machines. Suppose you had a problem, and for some reason your console and tape machine weren't playing nice together. Do you think the console company would say "tough cookies...we don't support 3rd-party hardware such as tape machines!"? Do you think the tape machine company would say "tough cookies...we don't support 3rd-party hardware such as consoles!"? Of course not. Pros will triangulate on and solve the problem.

AVID lives in a dream world where they are at the center of the universe, and where they have no responsibility whatsoever for anything they don't sell. That would be just fine if their systems were well enough documented (as simple analog circuits used to be) for an engineer to just dive in, read the source code, and figure out whether the problem really was in AVID's software, MacOS, a driver, the interface, or what have you. But when each party holds their parts as completely proprietary and refuses to support that which they can be connected to...where does one go for support? Last year AVID didn't even sell a PT<->MADI box, so there was no choice if one wanted to build a studio that could distribute digital signals in bulk beyond the 15' limit of the digi cable.

There are many other companies that will go the extra distance to either enhance their products to meet customer needs or expectations, or will at least offer enough help to root out where the real fundamental limitations lie.

You are right that AVID is not the only party who could offer to explore the problem space. But their attitude is so extraordinarily unhelpful that I thought I would take the opportunity to agree with the OP about the quality of AVID's support.
Old 19th December 2010
  #21
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did you download the firmware update for the 003? it's not in the PT 9 installer, I believe it's separate.

yeah I might try to trash all prefs, and build I/O setup from scratch. try and create 18 channels and see if it cascades 9-16 as ADAT and 17-18 as S/PDIF.

I had clocking issues with using S/PDIF and adat at the same time on an LE system but I can't remember what the solution was. it was a while ago.

can somebody e-mail you a template that's setup the way you need it and just try to load it in?

oto
Old 19th December 2010
  #22
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can you post a screenshot of the I/O setup?
Old 19th December 2010
  #23
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Here is what I've done so far...

I went and downloaded all the drivers again... even tough I just upgraded two days ago. Nope, that dind't work.

So I did a complete clean uninstall and reinstalled everything... nope, still random clicks and pops, still changing session I/O's... still no ADAT outs. Now if I click on optical I get nothing and if I click on s/pdif I get s/pdif.

So I try loading an old project that has both s/pdif and adat in's and outs set up in it. The s/dif doesn't work, the ADAT shows on the edit window screen but the s/pdif is grey out.... seems like you can't have both s/pdif outputting at the same time the ADAT does anymore??? Now get this, I go to the I/O window and it shows me all 18 outputs, nothing is greyed out?

So someone with an 003 please tell me if you can have both ADAT and s/pdif digital signal sent out at the same time. The 002R can do this but I had never tried it on my 003 I guess... I thought I had.

So just to check this I did another complete clean uninstall and loaded PT8 back on the system. It will give me s/dif out and now my optical out does nothing when checked. I get no signal at the ADAT port! However in 8.0 I did notice that the s/pdif and optical are separate check boxes... so I think the 003R doesn't allow digital to output s/pdif and ADAT at the same time.

I have gotten this PT9 software to do more strange stuff than any other Digi software ever. At first I did get it to load an old session and give me all the outs... even though either just optical or s/pdif was selected. It played back through both outs at the same time (this is when the firewire on my computer said I was hooked up to an 002 but the software in the P/T session said an 003, which is what I was hooked up to)

In PT7.4 s/pdif and ADAT were on the same line so when you checked that, it came out both. I believe this is something Digi did to cripple the newer systems as now optical is one check box and s/pdif is the other.

Let me tell you I am getting corrupted playback no matter what the outs. So when I choose the 003 analog outs I'm still getting random clicks and pops... yes, clock is set to internal. So this alone tells me something is corrupted within the playback of the files.

Either way, tomorrow I call about getting digital in's and outs for my Aurora VT and I'll just skip Digi's hardware all together... in fact today that's what I'll be checking again. As when I assigned the AES16 as my main out in PT9 everything played just fine. Just want to confirm that's the case.

Any other thoughts as to what it could be would be greatly appreciated. Also wanted to say I appreciate the calls I got from some board members. What a great community.
Old 19th December 2010
  #24
Gear Nut
 

hey again,

did you remember to trash all the preferences, digidesign databases folders and volume.ddb files in the tech support utility???

even a clean unistall won't remove those files and might be messing with the settings, at least that's what happened to me...

haven't used both the adat and s/pdif at the same time,
can't help you there, sorry...

hope you get it sorted,
one way or the other...
Old 19th December 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uijui View Post
hey again,

did you remember to trash all the preferences, digidesign databases folders and volume.ddb files in the tech support utility???

even a clean unistall won't remove those files and might be messing with the settings, at least that's what happened to me...

haven't used both the adat and s/pdif at the same time,
can't help you there, sorry...

hope you get it sorted,
one way or the other...

Thanks uijui, I forgot to trash the preference... that might have something to do with some of the bugs going on. I thought they were removed with the clean install. I'll try that shortly.

In your I/O window does all 8 analog out, 2 s/pdif and 8 ADAT outs show up when you look at this menu?

best,
Larry
Old 19th December 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebridges View Post
can you post a screenshot of the I/O setup?
Hi Lee, It's been so damn long since I took a screen shot I can't remember how to do it on my Mac?

That said the only thing that shows up in the I/O window when you hit the default are the 8 analog outs and two s/pdifs. Even when you click on optical in the other menu the I/O menu never shows the ADAT outs it still shows as s/pdif. Nor does any audio come out the ADAT port now. Had that working yesterday... albeit with clicks and pops but at least it worked. Since re-installing 9's software optical does not output any digital signal.
Old 19th December 2010
  #27
Gear Nut
 

a screenshot would be cmd, shift and 3...

i have all the 8 analog, 8 adat and s/pdif ins and outs showing in the i/o window...

i had exactly the same problem a week or so ago, i/o all messed up and clicks/pops all over the place...

double-check you're at 48, 44.1 or whatever sample rate you prefer on all the hardware,
i always forget the simplest things when this kind of stuff happens...

and the clock source in the harware setup,
how's that looking?

my 003r+ and rme adi-8 ds combo starts clicking and popping right when i change the clock to internal... when i set clock source to optical it's all good...

hope this rambling helps...
Old 19th December 2010
  #28
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Silvertone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uijui View Post
a screenshot would be cmd, shift and 3...

i have all the 8 analog, 8 adat and s/pdif ins and outs showing in the i/o window...

i had exactly the same problem a week or so ago, i/o all messed up and clicks/pops all over the place...

double-check you're at 48, 44.1 or whatever sample rate you prefer on all the hardware,
i always forget the simplest things when this kind of stuff happens...

and the clock source in the harware setup,
how's that looking?

my 003r+ and rme adi-8 ds combo starts clicking and popping right when i change the clock to internal... when i set clock source to optical it's all good...

hope this rambling helps...
This rambling is helping...

See when I open my I/O it does not show any of the ADAT in's or outs.... when I hit the default it only gives me the 8 analog and two s/pdif. Yours shows all of them? Also can you send digital signal out of both at once?

I have to change clocks and settings all the time since I do mastering for a living, so I'm very keen to check sample rates and clocking as this is the most common area for the clicks and pops to occur if these are set wrong.

Also, pardon the question as it's been a while but where do I find the preferences to trash... it is not in the Pro Tools Utilities folder in the P/T folder on my system???

Thanks for the reminder on the screen shot.
Old 19th December 2010
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otobianki74 View Post
did you download the firmware update for the 003? it's not in the PT 9 installer, I believe it's separate.

yeah I might try to trash all prefs, and build I/O setup from scratch. try and create 18 channels and see if it cascades 9-16 as ADAT and 17-18 as S/PDIF.

I had clocking issues with using S/PDIF and adat at the same time on an LE system but I can't remember what the solution was. it was a while ago.

can somebody e-mail you a template that's setup the way you need it and just try to load it in?

oto
Hi Oto,

When I load an older project I get an either/or on the ADAT and s/pdif outs. On an 002R system with 7.4 you could have both ins and outs going at the same time with no problems... been doing that for the last 10 years.

Now it looks like on PT8 and PT9 with an 003R box you can only have either but not both.

Can someone confirm this?

Thanks everybody!
Old 19th December 2010
  #30
Gear Nut
 

you can find the 'tech support utility' in the 'additional files' folder that comes with the pt9 installer, it's revision v3, the earlier ones don't seem to work with pt9...

i think this is definitely the first thing to do if you haven't done it in a while...
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