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The "today we build our studio pc" thread
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12241
JFYI. I've never had to lock the speed on my 9900K, and I don't get issues with speed ramp up/down impacting audio either in the DAW or in Windows in general. I do have the power plan at max, and I have water cooling. I've overclocked in the past, but this one is stock.

Task Manager usually reports that it's running around 4.3ghz across the 8/16 cores.

That's just my personal experience, though. There are many variables.

Pete
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12242
Here for the gear
Vision D vs ProArt Creator

Evening Folks


I posted a tentative final build list earlier this week for advice and took some takeaways for review

The motherboard seemed like the weak point of the build, so I did some review and narrowed down some options


Core of build (minus mobo) https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/PrWKBc

i9 10850k / Noctua D-15 / Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3200 / Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB / Corsair RMx 850 / Fractal R5

I've focused in on upgrading my interface, considering RME Babyface Pro FS / PreSonus Quantum 2626


Thunderbolt Options: Gigabyte Vision D vs Asus ProArt Creator

I've seen a lot of builds with the Vision D, but none with the ProArt Creator, despite being very similar in price.

Does anybody have experience with ProArt, and if not, are there some specs that make it not as suited to audio production that I'm missing?


USB Options: Asus Z490 Prime-P / Prime-A vs Gigabyte Vision G

Similarly, I've also noticed some Vision G builds, but again not many Asus Prime.

Any major redflags/concerns with Asus Prime-P/A? Perhaps the Asus just ins't enough board, and the Vision G just out specs for the price?


Appreciate the past/future responses, hoping there's other folks reading that have similar questions that are being answered with this

Thanks Folks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12243
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
My 9700k system has locked cpu frequencies and does not draw much power. Its got a 95 watt tdp and yet draws maybe 20/40 watts for the entire system when I measure it from the wall socket. I think the cpus are more complicated than we can see from here. For instance I saw an interview where an intel guy was talking about different subsystems on the chip being shut off when not used--like maybe the floating point unit. cpu-z shows my core 0 running at 4.912 gig while it is rated at 3.6 gig. So this stuff isn't tying out in a way that makes me think I have a complete understanding.

I do think trying to get into permanent turbo mode is chasing a will-o-wisp. From what I have read, its an opportunistic thing the cpu will do with a core if its kind of busy but the core is below a certain temperature, so turbo mode is unpredictable and goes in bursts governed by how the cpu feels at any given time time.

I remember the pcs 20-30 years ago that had a physical turbo button. It struck me at the time that nobody would prefer to run their pc in non-turbo mode... That was the days when the cpu did not even have a heat sink... Today's turbo only shares a marketing name with those old technologies.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
...
I remember the pcs 20-30 years ago that had a physical turbo button. It struck me at the time that nobody would prefer to run their pc in non-turbo mode... That was the days when the cpu did not even have a heat sink... Today's turbo only shares a marketing name with those old technologies.
Yeah, the old Turbo button would drop down to a slower clock speed. This was mostly for games that ran way too fast on a more modern processor. These days, games aren't tied to CPU cycles.

Pete
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Notes View Post
Evening Folks


I posted a tentative final build list earlier this week for advice and took some takeaways for review

The motherboard seemed like the weak point of the build, so I did some review and narrowed down some options


Core of build (minus mobo) https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/PrWKBc

i9 10850k / Noctua D-15 / Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3200 / Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB / Corsair RMx 850 / Fractal R5

I've focused in on upgrading my interface, considering RME Babyface Pro FS / PreSonus Quantum 2626


Thunderbolt Options: Gigabyte Vision D vs Asus ProArt Creator

I've seen a lot of builds with the Vision D, but none with the ProArt Creator, despite being very similar in price.

Does anybody have experience with ProArt, and if not, are there some specs that make it not as suited to audio production that I'm missing?


USB Options: Asus Z490 Prime-P / Prime-A vs Gigabyte Vision G

Similarly, I've also noticed some Vision G builds, but again not many Asus Prime.

Any major redflags/concerns with Asus Prime-P/A? Perhaps the Asus just ins't enough board, and the Vision G just out specs for the price?


Appreciate the past/future responses, hoping there's other folks reading that have similar questions that are being answered with this

Thanks Folks
The Asus board is nice, but don't install (or allow to run) any of the network optimization software. I'd leave out their additional network card as well. They do those things more for video editing than anything else. In my experience, network optimization software and drivers always (again, in my experience) hurt audio

Otherwise, having the Thunderbolt 3 ports on-board is super useful, if you go with the TB audio interface.

Pete
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12246
Here for the gear
 

There seems a wide range of experiences regarding turbo.

So the safe solution is...get a chip with a fast base clock speed to be sure not to rely on "turbo mode" which for the K intel chips isn't a great deal faster anyway?
That leaves the question B460 or Z490 mobo.
As I won't be over clocking and turbo is not to be relied on as part of the spec, plus 16 pcie lanes are as good as 24 to me, RAM speed 2666 would be ok...assuming identical vrm, the z490 would be overkill? Am I misding something? The money saved on the mobo would pay for a nice cpu cooler.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12247
Here for the gear
 

Nevermind. I got my answer.

Last edited by bam_sound; 4 weeks ago at 09:21 PM.. Reason: I got my answer.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12248
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Notes View Post
Thunderbolt Options: Gigabyte Vision D vs Asus ProArt Creator

I've seen a lot of builds with the Vision D, but none with the ProArt Creator, despite being very similar in price.
The main reason I did not choose Asus Proart Creator is that it has no WiFI/bluetooth native. I use a lot of bluetooth devices so I really appreciate the bluetooth 5 on the Gigabyte Vision D. Actually it seems like it has much better range than the native bluetooth 4 that was on my old motherboard.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12249
Question

Guy I am planning to build a Ryzen 7 3900XT/3950X PC for running lots of Acustica plugins. For the motherboard, I was thinking of getting an Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 or Steel Legend to save a few doughs instead of the X570 Taichi model. But would not like to compromise on the DPC latency figures. So if any of you have any experience and suggestions about the CPU and mobo combo, it would be helpful.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12250
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theguitarfreak View Post
Guy I am planning to build a Ryzen 7 3900XT/3950X PC for running lots of Acustica plugins.
I would wait for the new Ryzen 5000, they are almost "here".
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-595...re-i9-10980xe/



Quote:
For the motherboard, I was thinking of getting an Asrock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 or Steel Legend to save a few doughs instead of the X570 Taichi model. But would not like to compromise on the DPC latency figures. So if any of you have any experience and suggestions about the CPU and mobo combo, it would be helpful.
Check my post here.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12251
Here for the gear
 

Mobo's DPC Issues

Hey guys, FWIW, I have to recommend staying away from the MSI MEG Z490 ACE Motherboard... I've been killing myself trying to make it work for audio, but I keep getting DPC spikes no matter what I do. Unless the mobo itself is a faulty one, or I got a bad CPU... I tried with different RAM (officially supported by the mobo), drives, GPUs (Nvidia & AMD); all different brands, all on fresh Win.10 64 installations (tried 4 different VRs incl. 2004 & 20H2). Of course I tried every possible setting in the BIOS. All this methodically, taking notes, etc. Pretty sure the motherboard isn't DAW friendly at this point. Maybe that's because it doesn't have a HPET chip, I don't know if that's such a big deal...

I'm probably gonna buy the ASUS ROG Maximus XII Hero Z490 (wi-fi) to see if I get more stable results... I'll report back when I receive and test that mobo... I've always been with ASUS before, should have stayed with their motherboards.

The problem is a 300 microsecond spike every 15 minutes. The system is super tight and fast the rest of the time though (between 10 & 20 microseconds interrupt to process latency). I've used LatencyMon and Windows Performance Analyzer, but also a quick test in Cubase seemed unstable when pushed hard. The glitch only happens on one of the CPU cores though, and is remedied by disabling Diagnostic Policy Service (DPS). Which is why I'm wondering if I should just keep using this mobo without DPS, and just get to making music already!

Anyway, if anyone was considering this mobo, stay away for now is my recommendation. I'll report back though...

FWIW, I'm using the i9 10850K
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12252
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdon View Post
I have to recommend staying away from the MSI MEG Z490 ACE Motherboard...

I've used LatencyMon and Windows Performance Analyzer, but also a quick test in Cubase seemed unstable when pushed hard.
I take for granted that you updated bios and chipset. Also have the power plan on Ultimate, and when using Nvidia "prefer maximum performance". And what is your version of Windows? 1909 version is prefered.
Can you run latencymon in idle for minimum 10 minutes and post a screenshot of this:
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12253
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdon View Post
Hey guys, FWIW, I have to recommend staying away from the MSI MEG Z490 ACE Motherboard...
(...)
The glitch only happens on one of the CPU cores though, and is remedied by disabling Diagnostic Policy Service (DPS). Which is why I'm wondering if I should just keep using this mobo without DPS, and just get to making music already!
Look here and here.

I have Diagnostic Policy Service (DPS) disabled and no problems...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12254
Here for the gear
 

Thanks guys!

daskeladden:
I tried Win 1909, exact same result. BIOS & chipset updated too. I uploaded the latencymon result...

Pictus:
I've done those tweaks, except the autoruns; I'll try that. Also the guide-book seems like it may have a few tricks which I haven't tried yet; I'll go back and try them too. I'll see about keeping DPS disabled; I let LatMon run all night, and it DID peak anyway, at 550MicroSeconds... Maybe just once, I don't know, but still... I intend to use this PC live too (with Cantabile); can't afford glitches on stage.



I feel like it HAS to be the motherboard at this point... Or am I just going crazy? The usual peak at 300MicroSeconds isn't "BAD"... Just that I spent a HUGE amount of $ on a 2020 PC that is half as stable as my last PC from the year 2010; That one had around 150 microseconds; my old laptop too; similar results... No peaks either, those PCs just hover around that #, like an old amp on standby.

I can't see myself in a year running one of my (many) super-loaded DAW projects, and every now and then, I get an audio drop-out or glitch... Sure, a normal singer-songwriter pre-production project should run fine, but I want to be able to push this beast to the limit if I have to...

A few more tweaks and tests before I try that ASUS board.

Will circle back...
Attached Thumbnails
The "today we build our studio pc" thread-latmon-results.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12255
Here for the gear
 

I forgot to add: I doubt every Windows 10 PC has a 300 microsecond spike every 15 minutes; this has to be a hardware issue, no?

If so, from the tests I've done so far, it all seems to point to this Motherboard (MSI Z490Ace)...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12256
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdon View Post
I forgot to add: I doubt every Windows 10 PC has a 300 microsecond spike every 15 minutes; this has to be a hardware issue, no?

If so, from the tests I've done so far, it all seems to point to this Motherboard (MSI Z490Ace)...
I can see that you have some kind of network adapter enabled. Have you tried to disabled all networks adapters (wifi, lan and bluetooth) in device manager. Just to see if that is causing the "spikes".
Also update firmware on all your SSD and NVMe hard drives
By the way what audio interface do you use?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12257
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
I can see that you have some kind of network adapter enabled. Have you tried to disabled all networks adapters (wifi and lan) in device manager. Just to see if that is causing the "spikes"
Yup, even tried uninstalling, disabling from BIOS too... I must have turned it back on last night and forgotten about it. It doesn't usually change anything. On this PC anyway...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12258
Lives for gear
 
TS-12's Avatar
quick question.
I have PC with gigabyte z390 gaming x Motherboard and the pcie thunderbolt card. Will Apollo Solo thunderbolt and Apollo twin thunderbolt work with this setup ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12259
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
quick question.
I have PC with gigabyte z390 gaming x Motherboard and the pcie thunderbolt card. Will Apollo Solo thunderbolt and Apollo twin thunderbolt work with this setup ?
Should work ok, but buy a compatible card
https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GC-T.../dp/B08BC11XW8
Also pay attention if the audio interface is Thunderbolt 3 or 2.
For TB2 you will also need
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-.../dp/B0084L74EW
and
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-.../dp/B019FPJDQ2



--------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdon View Post
Thanks guys!
You are welcome!
Quote:
Pictus:
I've done those tweaks, except the autoruns; I'll try that. Also the guide-book seems like it may have a few tricks which I haven't tried yet; I'll go back and try them too. I'll see about keeping DPS disabled; I let LatMon run all night, and it DID peak anyway, at 550MicroSeconds... Maybe just once, I don't know, but still... I intend to use this PC live too (with Cantabile); can't afford glitches on stage.

I feel like it HAS to be the motherboard at this point...
It can be anything...
Look at the time of the spike if Windows is not doing something...
Check the Scheduler Tasks
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/task_scheduler_view.html
and monitor the processes
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...ocess-explorer
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12260
Here for the gear
I had the popping as well on my intel NUC hades canyon (i7 CPU 8809G) if I set my power plan to “balanced” and it could clock down (bearing in mind boost is 4.1ghz!).

The popping was with any interface (universal audio arrow, focusrite Scarlett, RME baby face etc). As soon as I switched to performance all the problems went away.

Strange really. You’d think an i7 would handle it but it could be because the 8809g is a laptop CPU and not desktop?

Temps at the performance setting sit around the high 30 Celsius
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12261
Gear Head
 

Hey daskeladden as you r using 10900k With 3200MHz RAm which is high above than the intel recommendation of 2933MHz..so at what speed r u running the ram? and is your system stable ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12262
Here for the gear
 

Hi,

Thoughts on this one?

Intel Core i9-10900K
Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler
Gigabyte Z490 VISION D ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
MSI Radeon RX 580 8 GB ARMOR OC


Also, what are good options for a power supply?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12263
Gear Head
 

Hi to all!

If anyone would like to give some insight in theirs experience I would be grateful!

I want to switch from Mac Mini (2019, i7 8700b, 32GB RAM(64 max), 1TB, UAD Arrow) and go back to Windows. I love Mini and macOS, it works perfect. But I want to switch mainly for higher RAM size and VR gaming :D! eGPU and bootcamp seems to not work good. It is for a professional and tense work (composing and sound design - commercials/movies etc.) so stability is my number one priority. I work on Cubase and need low latency (with big ASIO Guard and monitoring plugins latencies), so I could play and add/record new layer of music on the go.

I have no idea what motherboard to choose (I know it needs a specific CPU socket) and I'm mainly asking you if you can prose something that is tested for the audio input lag, Cubase 10 and UAD Arrow (TB3) stability. Besides I need TB3 (for UAD Arrow so it would work as stable as on Mac) and at least 128 GB RAM (so the upgrade would make sens beside VR gaming) as I understand 14CL and faster speed would be preferable.

So far I think Intel Core i9-10900K is the best option from me, as Ryzen 5950X have 64 GB RAM max (as I understand), GTX 3080 (for the VR gaming), at least 3-4TB NVME SSD for start (so it would be good to have more connections on the motherboard), good power supply and some good cooling (I could go liquid just for fun but I have no idea if it's reliable and worth it)

I don't want to overclock. I have already read some stuff about optimising on UAD and Steinberg website so I know I should not instal geforce experience, set some thing in BIOS etc.

Btw. what is RTL :P ? Is PCIe 3.0 (i9) good enough to future-proof it for the next 6 years (and upgrading the GPU)?

THANKS !!!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12264
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboOiuo View Post
....
.... as Ryzen 5950X have 64 GB RAM max (as I understand), ... Btw. what is RTL :P ? Is PCIe 3.0 (i9) good enough to future-proof it for the next 6 years (and upgrading the GPU)? ...
Hi!
I'll pick off the easy ones, and leave the UAD & Thunderbolt questions to others.

The Ryzen 5950X will support up to 128GB RAM just like the 3950X. To go higher requires the Threadripper series from AMD or, of course various Intel offerings. RTL is Round Trip Latency.

The GPU/gamer benchmarks I've seen show low single-digit percentage performance improvements for PCIe 4.0 over PCIe 3.0. Perhaps DLSS, or DirectStorage or RTXIO or [fill in blank] will change that.

As for future-proofing, I run a CrystalBall model 2 that's only good for 2 weeks of predictions. It's pretty worn out, and its accuracy isn't all that it has been in the slow-moving past, but I'm drawn to its vintage vibe, and the noise floor is rather euphonic, and ...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12265
Gear Head
 

Thanks! It's good to know it's 128GB and not 64, now it really is an interesting option - I don't want to go into the Xenon, ECC, HP workstation/MacPro route I think 128 GB RAM will be good for now.

I saw some PCIe comparison on the GPU's too, but I was thinking about something like "the current GTX 3090 is already using 99% of the PCIe 3.0 bandwidth, so it's very likely 2-3 next gens will need 4.0" but I guess I need to buy the CrystalBall 3 now :P.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12266
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicstation.xs View Post
Hey daskeladden as you r using 10900k With 3200MHz RAm which is high above than the intel recommendation of 2933MHz..so at what speed r u running the ram? and is your system stable ?
XMP on profile 1 and went down on the system memory Multiplier. I found out that my system is stable on 3000Mhz (with XMP on):


Quote:
Originally Posted by Petar View Post
Hi,

Thoughts on this one?

Intel Core i9-10900K
Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler
Gigabyte Z490 VISION D ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
MSI Radeon RX 580 8 GB ARMOR OC


Also, what are good options for a power supply?
That CPU cooler (Noctua NH-D15) will cover the first Pcie slot; bad choice. Either choose Noctua NH-D15S or the one I have: Noctua NH-U12A. If you gonna push the system hard with video rendering and stuff like that I recommend a liquid cooler.
Also be sure the memory is on the support list of the motherboard. As to power supply: Corsair RM850x
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12267
Lives for gear
 
esaias's Avatar
I was thinking of building my new DAW with 5950X and a Asus Pro WS X570-ACE motherboard, soundcard is RME MADI FX. The WS board offers two 8x PCIe slots via switch straight to CPU unlike the usual set-up which has only one 16x slot connected to CPU. I was thinking of putting the RME and GPU to these slots. Any comments why this would be bad idea? I like the idea of not having the RME in the chipset competing with other devices.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12268
Lives for gear
 
Kamurah's Avatar
Lots of builds similar to mine on here...but thought I would add another to the list as stable and performing well:

Computer:
i7 10700k (stock settings / no overclock)
Gigabyte Z490 Vision D
Sea Sonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless SSR-600TL
Samsung 2TB 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 Internal SSD
Western Digital 4TB HDD (Backup)
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) (PC4 25600)
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler
NZXT H510i Mid-Tower Case
Using onboard video....no external GPU
Win 10 Pro

Audio setup:
Focusrite Rednet PCIe card for Dante
Eventide H9000 w/ Dante card for analog I/O / send FX in Cubase
Fractal Axe FX 3 via AES /EBU on AVIO AES Dante
Focusrite Rednet AM2 for monitor / headphones
CISCO SG350-10P Ethernet switch

Stable RTL of 3.4ms in Cubase @ 64 sample ASIO setting

System runs cool (around 32 degrees Celsius) and quiet (ceiling fan in my room is louder than the PC)

Last edited by Kamurah; 3 weeks ago at 07:51 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12269
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post

That CPU cooler (Noctua NH-D15) will cover the first Pcie slot; bad choice. Either choose Noctua NH-D15S or the one I have: Noctua NH-U12A. If you gonna push the system hard with video rendering and stuff like that I recommend a liquid cooler.
Also be sure the memory is on the support list of the motherboard. As to power supply: Corsair RM850x
Yes, the memory compatible with the Z490.Thanks, I've added Noctua NH-U12A to the list. How many case fans is advisable and will I be fine with Corsair RM650X (gold), since the RM850x is out of stock?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12270
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamurah View Post
Lots of builds similar to mine on here...but thought I would add another to the list as stable and performing well:

Computer:
i7 10700k (stock settings / no overclock)
Gigabyte Z490 Vision D
Sea Sonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless SSR-600TL
Samsung 2TB 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 Internal SSD
Western Digital 4TB HDD (Backup)
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) (PC4 25600)
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler
NZXT H510i Mid-Tower Case
Using onboard video....no external GPU
Win 10 Pro

Audio setup:
Focusrite Rednet PCIe card for Dante
Eventide H9000 w/ Dante card for analog I/O / send FX in Cubase
Fractal Axe FX 3 via AES /EBU on AVIO AES Dante
Focusrite Rednet AM2 for monitor / headphones
CISCO SG350-10P Ethernet switch

Stable RTL of 3.4ms in Cubase @ 64 sample ASIO setting

System runs cool (around 32 degrees Celsius) and quiet (ceiling fan in my room is louder than the PC)
Almost identical to my recent build.

The only difference is that I have a Vision G that required a TB card. And I have a Noctua fan.

I'm stable @ 64samples 1.7ms RTL w/ Presonum Quantum in Reaper stock.

Been wondering if I should OC the 10700 to 4.5 or so or if it's even worth it.
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