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The "today we build our studio pc" thread
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9061
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Case fans: With my asus x390 prime a, before I could slow down the case fans, the bios limited how slow I could set them.

I had to run a bios utility that basically lowered the voltage on the fans until they stopped spinning and mapped voltage to rpm. Very cool, but took a while before I figured that out (many google searches). Once that was done, I could set the case fans to slow speeds. My case fans now are slow enough to be silent.

The cpu fan it allowed me to slow down right off the bat as that fan is pwm--case fans are dc. Of course the fans spin faster if it detects things getting too hot. In theory maybe the back fan should be a bit faster since the front has two fans, but my case is so cool inside it really doesn't matter.

I did some research on fans, and could not find any compelling reason to get the more expensive pwm case fans.

PS. I have three case fans. The case comes with a multi-fan header, but than bios can't report individual fan speed, so I plugged them into case fan 1,2 and some sort of aux or accessory fan. Works great.
I also got a small heat sink and put it on the mobo mounted m.2. I don't think it needed it, but that thing got almost too hot to touch, so for $12, some peace of mind. We do know the m.2 cards will slow themselves down to keep from over-heating. This probably was only a concern on initial load when I copied the entire C drive to the new m.2 card--lots of writes as fast as possible for a couple of hours.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9062
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filterfreak View Post
Can someone please explain, what the difference between the 9900k and the 9900X is?

Which one is preferable?
http://hwbench.com/cpus/intel-core-i...-core-i9-9900k
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9063
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
I have had a thermal issue with my G60jx lap when going online for quite some time now. It
doesn't seem to act up when I'm on my home page or running a search but most site pages I
open cause it to overheat and go into thermal shut down after so many minutes.

I have a spare rack pc (ASUS Maximus Extreme x38/ Core 2 Extreme QX9770) so I'm thinking my
most inexpensive solution will be to remote into it with vnc and use it for just the internet since it
will have no problems with heat. I would like to set it next to my recliner where I do pretty much
all my surfing and such and also because I doubt it has the wol option.
Could you guys give me some thoughts and recommendations on this as well as recommend a good wireless PCIe card for it.
Thanks, RT
Oh great, if I want to shut the thread down all I have to do is ask for help. You all must have been
hurting waiting for some one else.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9064
Lives for gear
 

Here’s an interesting PC case. Besides the obvious design angle that is possibly aimed at Mac to PC switchers, it does hold up to seven 3 1/2 HDD and has an option for a quieting front panel upgrade.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VGHUke...e_continue=223
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9065
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
I am not too jazzed up by the new mac pro case personally. If I needed to move my pc a few times a day, or had an inch of standing water on the floor, the handles and feet would be nice, but otherwise the case I have is easy to open up on those rare occasions when I need to get in there. If you do want this case, I suggest buying it right away because I am sure apple has secured some sort of intellectual property rights on the design and will shut this product down soon.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9066
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
Oh great, if I want to shut the thread down all I have to do is ask for help. You all must have been
hurting waiting for some one else.
Some may disagree, but I generally only post about things I know something about, or indicate when I am guessing. I don't know about using vnc to remote into something. I tried it some years ago without success. My guess here is it would be best to have your laptop professionally cleaned to make sure its not clogged with dust, or maybe get a new lapop. I wonder if old batteries get warmer as they supply power.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9067
Lives for gear
 
DeadPoet's Avatar
Hi y'all,


I'm slowly educating myself again on the topic of upgrading my PC.
Currently 5 year old i7-4790k (Asus Z97-a, 16Gb 1600Mhz, 4Gb passive GTX1050Ti).

I was planning on upgrading by Black Friday and going to go for the 'standard' build that's around here (9900K, Designare, 32Gb ram, Noctua cooler and some faster drives). But now there's the new Cascade Lake X line coming out soon and the lower ones might be in my price range (10900X coming in at $590).


I know these aren't out yet but would it make sense to jump on this new platform? Being that they have a different socket it's not that I could get a 9900 now and upgrade later.


Info that might be useful:
Windows10, CubasePro10 & ProTools HD native, RME MADIFx and 2x32ch AD/DA converters. Driving an UHD monitor and 4k TV.
Running mostly audio-based projects at 96k (40-100tracks) with lots of external hardware and parallel paths throughout. Low buffer sizes aren't a dealbreaker in my world.

I understand MHz-per-core and as many cores are what makes my system run smoothly.


Thanks in advance for any info.


Herwig
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9068
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPoet View Post
Noctua cooler
Just be sure to buy Noctua NH-D15S

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPoet View Post

the new Cascade Lake X line coming out soon and the lower ones might be in my price range (10900X coming in at $590).
If you decide to buy Intel 10900X you have to buy a X299X motherboard like this:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...-10G-rev-10#kf

I don't know much about the Intel 10900X read specs. here:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-70-ghz.html

I don't think you gonna get any information about how Intel 10900X works on a audio production pc cause the CPU is totally new. Some times YOU have to be the guinea pig and report back to others
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9069
Here for the gear
 

Regarding my question on how to slow down (and make quieter) the 3 case fans in the Fractal Define R6 USB-C case (with Gigabyte Designare motherboard), here is the solution I found:

Rather than using the case's fan hub, which only controls the speed of 4-pin PWM fans, I plugged the 3 fans directly into the motherboard in the SYS_FAN 1 to 3 connectors. In the BIOS, I was able to set Fan/Pump Control mode for these connectors to "Voltage" and Fan Speed Control to "Silent".

Now, rather than full speed of 500+ RPM, the fans are running around 400 (reported in BIOS), which has made them virtually silent.

Thanks for the input and suggestions that enabled me to better understand how fans work and find this solution! The rig works wonderfully. An absolute performance beast! (i9 9900k, 64 GB RAM, Gigabyte Designare, 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9070
Lives for gear
 

Yes! Pretty much built the same system 6 weeks ago or so and love it. I also discovered the weakness of the included fan hub and have my 3 fans (noctuas the replaced the stock fans in the stock locations) connected to the motherboard- and are generally inaudible. Unless I’m really working the system. I don’t think I changed a setting to silent - they pretty much aware anyway with regular pwm management, and since I have all cores clocked to 5ghz, I want to make sure it has cooling when it needs it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in VA View Post
Regarding my question on how to slow down (and make quieter) the 3 case fans in the Fractal Define R6 USB-C case (with Gigabyte Designare motherboard), here is the solution I found:

Rather than using the case's fan hub, which only controls the speed of 4-pin PWM fans, I plugged the 3 fans directly into the motherboard in the SYS_FAN 1 to 3 connectors. In the BIOS, I was able to set Fan/Pump Control mode for these connectors to "Voltage" and Fan Speed Control to "Silent".

Now, rather than full speed of 500+ RPM, the fans are running around 400 (reported in BIOS), which has made them virtually silent.

Thanks for the input and suggestions that enabled me to better understand how fans work and find this solution! The rig works wonderfully. An absolute performance beast! (i9 9900k, 64 GB RAM, Gigabyte Designare, 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9071
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
5-7 years ago, Intel sure sold a lot of 4790k cpus. I never heard of it, but it seems like the most common system being replaced here.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9072
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
I have had a thermal issue with my G60jx lap when going online for quite some time now. It
doesn't seem to act up when I'm on my home page or running a search but most site pages I
open cause it to overheat and go into thermal shut down after so many minutes.

I have a spare rack pc (ASUS Maximus Extreme x38/ Core 2 Extreme QX9770) so I'm thinking my
most inexpensive solution will be to remote into it with vnc and use it for just the internet since it
will have no problems with heat. I would like to set it next to my recliner where I do pretty much
all my surfing and such and also because I doubt it has the wol option.
Could you guys give me some thoughts and recommendations on this as well as recommend a good wireless PCIe card for it.
Thanks, RT
Like Ponzi said, dust is a possible cause. I'm thinking your over heating
when visiting certain web pages is GPU (graphics card) related. You may be surprised how much Graphics acceleration the web uses. I think your GPU is
most likely in death mode. It very well may be due to dust buildup. But there
are other issues like old (bad) thermal paste or thermal pads on the GPU ram chips that could be failing. The consistent heat cool down cycle causes cracks
in the solder that fuses the GPU to the board. That will be the final blow unless
you reflow the solder and re-do the thermal paste.

Looking at the specs looks like the G60Jx used a GTX 260m or 360m..
https://www.asus.com/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-G60Jx/

Those Dedicated GPU's are hot as crap!! and in my view never should been put in a laptop. I'm not a fan 95% of laptop design at all. They will almost 99% die before their time due to bad thermal design.
Here are some others talking about some issues close to yours:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/158-...erheating.html

My view here, that laptop is getting pretty dated, I wouldn't spend to much
time other than the basics here,
1. Blow the dust out,
2. check the thermal paste on the GPU (New thermal paste is like $5)
3. try to do a clean install and most current GPU drivers; see if you can put
the GPU in a lower performance state (less heat)

Ok, for the VNC I used TeamViewer for years when it was free but I had to find a replacement. I can 100% recommend Google Crome Remote Desktop.
It works on IOS, Android, OSX, Windows....ect... you can effectively control and view your computer on any other device. And its pretty simple to setup.

As for the WI-FI card, just get a USB one with the biggest antenna and best rating for the price you are willing to spend.

Hope this helps...

~JuIsE~
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9073
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Like Ponzi said, dust is a possible cause. I'm thinking your over heating
when visiting certain web pages is GPU (graphics card) related.
MOst likely, yes. I dusted my laptop a few years ago, I thought a mouse was trapped inside but it was dust collected at the cooler.

Quote:
Ok, for the VNC I used TeamViewer for years when it was free but I had to find a replacement. I can 100% recommend Google Crome Remote Desktop.
It works on IOS, Android, OSX, Windows....ect... you can effectively control and view your computer on any other device. And its pretty simple to setup.
Hell will freeze over a third time before I will use a Google product on any of my systems.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9074
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
MOst likely, yes. I dusted my laptop a few years ago, I thought a mouse was trapped inside but it was dust collected at the cooler.

Hell will freeze over a third time before I will use a Google product on any of my systems.
lol....I agree mostly. But have you actually tried Chrome remote desktop?
I loved TeamViewer a lot, but have had great success the CRD. A lot less options than TV but that can be a plus for all he is wanting to do. If I understand correctly he just wants to pull up the net on his main DAW screens so he can leave his rig disconnected from the internet.

Another option is doing it the hardware hay with a KVM switch from his backup X38 computer to the main screen. Or simply just running it side by side with another keyboard mouse & monitor... or using the seconded input on his main monitor to switch between computers....I have used all the above methods for having multiple computers and monitors on a 3x6 desk.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9075
Here for the gear
 

Anyone with the i9900k / Gigabyte Designare setup experience electrical interference with a USB audio interface? I have a Babyface Pro and get static and interference through my studio monitors. The scratchy static gets louder as I turn the volume up and picks up things like mouse movements.

Everything works fine with headphones, or if I hook the audio interface up to my laptop instead. Anyone encounter this? I'm at a loss for a solution. Makes this whole setup near unusable.

UPDATE: This seems to be some kind of ground loop with a mixer I had plugged into the unbalanced 3/4 inputs on the Babyface. Unplugging them makes the problem go away.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9076
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Like Ponzi said, dust is a possible cause. I'm thinking your over heating
when visiting certain web pages is GPU (graphics card) related. You may be surprised how much Graphics acceleration the web uses. I think your GPU is
most likely in death mode. It very well may be due to dust buildup. But there
are other issues like old (bad) thermal paste or thermal pads on the GPU ram chips that could be failing. The consistent heat cool down cycle causes cracks
in the solder that fuses the GPU to the board. That will be the final blow unless
you reflow the solder and re-do the thermal paste.

Looking at the specs looks like the G60Jx used a GTX 260m or 360m..
https://www.asus.com/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG-G60Jx/

Those Dedicated GPU's are hot as crap!! and in my view never should been put in a laptop. I'm not a fan 95% of laptop design at all. They will almost 99% die before their time due to bad thermal design.
Here are some others talking about some issues close to yours:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/158-...erheating.html

My view here, that laptop is getting pretty dated, I wouldn't spend to much
time other than the basics here,
1. Blow the dust out,
2. check the thermal paste on the GPU (New thermal paste is like $5)
3. try to do a clean install and most current GPU drivers; see if you can put
the GPU in a lower performance state (less heat)

Ok, for the VNC I used TeamViewer for years when it was free but I had to find a replacement. I can 100% recommend Google Crome Remote Desktop.
It works on IOS, Android, OSX, Windows....ect... you can effectively control and view your computer on any other device. And its pretty simple to setup.

As for the WI-FI card, just get a USB one with the biggest antenna and best rating for the price you are willing to spend.

Hope this helps...

~JuIsE~
I have a 360m in it and I do keep it updated when a driver is available. I only install the minimum.

I open it up every so many months to clear all the crap out but its construction is such that I can't
get to the thermal compound or pads to swap out.

I'm looking at a Rosewill RNX-AC-1300 that most seem to be getting and is getting good reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill+RNX-AC-1300
Thanks for the reply
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9077
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in VA View Post
Anyone with the i9900k / Gigabyte Designare setup experience electrical interference with a USB audio interface? I have a Babyface Pro and get static and interference through my studio monitors. The scratchy static gets louder as I turn the volume up and picks up things like mouse movements....
I had some problems like that--I had a channel strip that was picking up the signal coming off the monitor wires--so the sound changed depending on what was on the screen. I addressed it to a large degree by getting new interconnects that presumably had 100% shielding.

I got a bunch of those ferrite barrels and put them on the ends of the monitor cables, but that did not help much, if at all.

This is where my great river was so helpful--the transformer in and out cures a lot of ground loop problems.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9078
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
I have a 360m in it and I do keep it updated when a driver is available. I only install the minimum.

I open it up every so many months to clear all the crap out but its construction is such that I can't
get to the thermal compound or pads to swap out.

I'm looking at a Rosewill RNX-AC-1300 that most seem to be getting and is getting good reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill+RNX-AC-1300
Thanks for the reply
I would look at some Hardware monitoring tools to see what is over heating, CPU or GPU. Then go from there. Yes, you will have to dissemble further to access and remove the copper heat pipes to replace the thermal paste. usually
the coper heat pipe is 1 long fixture the conducts for the GPU and CPU with 1 exit fan close to the outside edge of the laptop.
But, make sure to monitor which device is overheating. With a temperature monitoring app open, repeat the process in which makes it shutdown.
Most of the monitoring programs like https://www.hwinfo.com/download/
will indicate what the normal temps should be.
It will be a leaning curve working on laptops (they can be very frustrating)
But check youtube for videos, there is a good chance somebody has done the
same and posted for the world to see.

Good luck
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9079
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Just a note, I looked up heat pipes on the interweb and they can conduct heat 100 times better than copper in long pipe situations. I had thought copper was the best conductor. There are some gradations in heat pipe quality depending on how they are built, so opportunity for expensive cpu coolers to do a better job.

I was not aware that head conductive paste could age and become less effective. Makes sense, I guess. I bought a tube of some good stuff and it has lasted many years.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9080
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_p..._Heat_Pipe.JPG

This is the setup of most older laptops I've opened and fixed or trashed.

I like laptops with IGPU's on the same chip personally.
less stuff to go wrong....
Almost every one with the dedicated GPU seems to eventually fail.

Yes, what happens is the thermal paste usually dry's out and cracks
over time. Then you get no thermal conductivity and the GPU's (mainly)
actually start to weaken the solder points. Resulting in a cold solder joint
with either higher than normal resistance or simply a NC (no conduction)
Then its a toss up of how it will effect the Chip. unpredictable behavior is probable.
Repeated heat and cooling cycles and vibration can also effect its life.
This problem was really bad when a lot of manufactures switch to lead free
solder. It has a lower melting point and is generally not preferable for this
application. The reason they switched was XBOX was labeled a child's toy
so lead was not allowed (supposedly) not sure if other products were the same...

I remember doing the "oven" trick on a few GPU's on some old Xbox 360's and several GPU's from the 2006-2012 era (these GPU's seemed to run hot as crap back then) Basically, you remove all of the plastics from main board and put the card or motherboard in the oven to reflow the solder......lol..it worked a few times, but never a solid fix.....

I'm no way recommending this. Lead is not something you want to eat or have around food or food preparation areas.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9081
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Just a note, I looked up heat pipes on the interweb and they can conduct heat 100 times better than copper in long pipe situations. I had thought copper was the best conductor. There are some gradations in heat pipe quality depending on how they are built, so opportunity for expensive cpu coolers to do a better job.

I was not aware that head conductive paste could age and become less effective. Makes sense, I guess. I bought a tube of some good stuff and it has lasted many years.
That is interesting, I didn't know there was a mesh layer inside the copper tube,

https://www.1-act.com/innovations/heat-pipes/#what are

https://www.google.com/search?q=copp...a5Ch3-M:&vet=1
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9082
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I was not aware that head conductive paste could age and become less effective. Makes sense, I guess. I bought a tube of some good stuff and it has lasted many years.
Some GPUs now uses thermal carbon pads that does
not ages and Thermal Grizzly Carbonaut is the best.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9083
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
That is interesting, I didn't know there was a mesh layer inside the copper tube,...
We hope there is, as that is the middle tier, cheapest being grooves carved inside the tubes. Best is the 'sintered' which looks like a porus coating of copper inside the tube.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9084
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

https://celsiainc.com/blog-heat-pipe...he-difference/

More Nerd stuff.

Vapor Chambers vs Heat pipes!! get excited now....

Also interesting; heat dissipation in mobile devices
https://wccftech.com/galaxy-note-9-teardown-ifixit/

working on laptops sux, but Phones these days are no joke with the mustard seed size screws and
tiny flea parts......I think I gave up after 2 failed IPhone 3 repairs...I thought the IPhone 5 was bad also,
I cant imagine how annoying some of these newer phones can be to repair....
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9085
Gear Maniac
New CPU Opportunies

Hi
Around 8 years ago I built my current Daw machine based on info from this very thread.

I've been away from recording for the last 3 years and have only just got back into using it and admit, my knowledge of what's out there and compatibility has gone from mildly reasonable...… to zero .

Looking to upgrade the machine from Windows 7 to 10
And Cubase 8.5 to 10.

The Question on my machine performance is this.
I Currently have a Intel Core i7- 2600k @3.4Ghz Cpu. I don't really want to change the M/board and am running 16gb Ram

What Upgrade on the CPU could I do (same socket etc)?
Will it make a big difference?

Will I cause myself any problems?

Basically want to pull one cpu out and put another in ( if that's possible)


Any advice will be much appreciated.
Ronnie
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9086
Lives for gear
 
Finnish's Avatar
 

Expensive, you must use old (technology) CPU-chips and bad bang for buck ratio?

2600k still alive here and some day upgrading to Ryzen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieg View Post
Hi
Around 8 years ago I built my current Daw machine based on info from this very thread.

I've been away from recording for the last 3 years and have only just got back into using it and admit, my knowledge of what's out there and compatibility has gone from mildly reasonable...… to zero .

Looking to upgrade the machine from Windows 7 to 10
And Cubase 8.5 to 10.

The Question on my machine performance is this.
I Currently have a Intel Core i7- 2600k @3.4Ghz Cpu. I don't really want to change the M/board and am running 16gb Ram

What Upgrade on the CPU could I do (same socket etc)?
Will it make a big difference?

Will I cause myself any problems?

Basically want to pull one cpu out and put another in ( if that's possible)


Any advice will be much appreciated.
Ronnie
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9087
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieg View Post
The Question on my machine performance is this.
I Currently have a Intel Core i7- 2600k @3.4Ghz Cpu. I don't really want to change the M/board and am running 16gb Ram

What Upgrade on the CPU could I do (same socket etc)?
Will it make a big difference?
The best CPU that's compatible with the LGA1155 socket is the 3770K, which only offers a minor improvement over the 2600K: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...600K/1317vs621

My advice would be to stick with your current system until you're ready to commit to a new build. Though depending on what you have now, upgrading to a modern SSD is probably worth it (which you can keep if you decide to make a new build in the future), and possibly an additional 16GB of RAM (very much dependent on the nature of your work).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9088
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tangled Tales View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieg View Post
The Question on my machine performance is this.
I Currently have a Intel Core i7- 2600k @3.4Ghz Cpu. I don't really want to change the M/board and am running 16gb Ram

What Upgrade on the CPU could I do (same socket etc)?
Will it make a big difference?
The best CPU that's compatible with the LGA1155 socket is the 3770K, which only offers a minor improvement over the 2600K: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...600K/1317vs621

My advice would be to stick with your current system until you're ready to commit to a new build. Though depending on what you have now, upgrading to a modern SSD is probably worth it (which you can keep if you decide to make a new build in the future), and possibly an additional 16GB of RAM (very much dependent on the nature of your work).
Thank you TT. Sound Advice and kinda guessed that was possibly the solution.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9089
Gear Maniac
Thanks Finnish...…..Glad to see you're happy and Running Win 10.

Question.... that chip was way before Win10 launch How did the upgrade go? Lose any Sleep..... or worse , Plugins?

Thanks
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9090
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quick life extender boost for old pc: ssd, especialle pcie based. And they can be reused after cpu/mobo upgrade.
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