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The "today we build our studio pc" thread
Old 17th July 2019
  #8521
Gear Head
 

Hey guys,

In the process of acquiring components to build an i9900k or a 3900x machine.

I am wondering what cases the fines folks on here would recommend.. I'm currently trying to decide between the Silent Base 601 and the NZXT H700, which are decently priced where I am.

I would also like to know, when adding fans to a case, how are these fans normally powered and controlled? Can anyone who's added fans to either case mentioned above speak about airflow and noise levels?
Old 17th July 2019
  #8522
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimp View Post
Any idea which boards / CPUs this will cover?
It is supposed to be on all AM4 and possibly TR boards which have BIOSes approx. after mid July (which is my personal estimation, not an official figure).
Old 17th July 2019
  #8523
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axb312 View Post
Hey guys,

In the process of acquiring components to build an i9900k or a 3900x machine.

I am wondering what cases the fines folks on here would recommend.. I'm currently trying to decide between the Silent Base 601 and the NZXT H700, which are decently priced where I am.

I would also like to know, when adding fans to a case, how are these fans normally powered and controlled? Can anyone who's added fans to either case mentioned above speak about airflow and noise levels?
Silent case:
Fractal Design Define r6 USB C Black (the black version is the most quite because it's without the glass)
If you wanna add a fan maybe Noctua NF-S12A PWM 120mm
Easy to install just put it in the 4 pin fan connector on motherboard (bios will automatically do the settings)
Old 17th July 2019
  #8524
Gear Head
 
Matth30's Avatar
Yo!

I want to build a new pc, and im wondering if the i5 8600k would be great for what i want : im playing/controlling in real time in ableton (with a midi keyboard, one push2 and a midi controller) lots of virtual instruments like omnisphere 2 or serum. Let's say that that a heavy project for me got like a maximum of 30/40 tracks with vsts, drumracks, effects, samples..on a average project its more like 15/30.. So all of that with a low buffer size (128 or 96) for optimal latency without drops.

Unfortunately im on the phone and my pc is out, so its diffilcult for me to check benchmarks with a small screen..

So i wanted to first know if the i5 8600k is a good choice. I also wanted to ask what type of motherboard seem the best to you? What characteristic are you looking for the motherboard when building a pc for music production? I think i need at least 8/10 usb ports on it but the rest i cant tell.

Thanks for your help

Ps : if there are cheaper CPU alternatives that could fit my needs i will be curious to hear it, but i've heard the intel is best for heavy vst usage in real time with low latency so i think it will be intel no matter what
Old 17th July 2019
  #8525
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Silent case:
Fractal Design Define r6 USB C Black (the black version is the most quite because it's without the glass)
If you wanna add a fan maybe Noctua NF-S12A PWM 120mm
Easy to install just put it in the 4 pin fan connector on motherboard (bios will automatically do the settings)
I can vouch for the R6, I use it for my audio hack - it's totally silent. I use Fractal case fans with it. Noctua CPU cooler. Nice case to build with too.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8526
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
I can vouch for the R6, I use it for my audio hack - it's totally silent. I use Fractal case fans with it. Noctua CPU cooler. Nice case to build with too.
The R6 is about 250 USD where I'm at. Not going to part with that kind of money for a case.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8527
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Yo!

I want to build a new pc, and im wondering if the i5 8600k would be great for what i want : im playing/controlling in real time in ableton (with a midi keyboard, one push2 and a midi controller) lots of virtual instruments like omnisphere 2 or serum. Let's say that that a heavy project for me got like a maximum of 30/40 tracks with vsts, drumracks, effects, samples..on a average project its more like 15/30.. So all of that with a low buffer size (128 or 96) for optimal latency without drops.

Unfortunately im on the phone and my pc is out, so its diffilcult for me to check benchmarks with a small screen..

So i wanted to first know if the i5 8600k is a good choice. I also wanted to ask what type of motherboard seem the best to you? What characteristic are you looking for the motherboard when building a pc for music production? I think i need at least 8/10 usb ports on it but the rest i cant tell.

Thanks for your help

Ps : if there are cheaper CPU alternatives that could fit my needs i will be curious to hear it, but i've heard the intel is best for heavy vst usage in real time with low latency so i think it will be intel no matter what
Since you are going to do a lot of real time processing Single Core performance is pretty important. The i5 8600k do it pretty good in the single core benchmark test:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
Since the i5 8600k also has 6 cores you should be fine
Attached Thumbnails
The "today we build our studio pc" thread-real.time2.jpg  
Old 17th July 2019
  #8528
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Since you are going to do a lot of real time processing Single Core performance is pretty important. The i5 8600k do it pretty good in the single core benchmark test:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
Since the i5 8600k also has 6 cores you should be fine
What's the rationale for recommending the i5 8600K at $312 ($360 on Newegg) when the Ryzen 5 3600X offers 16% more performance at 80% (70%) the cost?

Or the non-x with 13% more performance at 64% (57%) of the cost?
Old 17th July 2019
  #8529
Gear Head
 
Matth30's Avatar
Alright daskeladden, thanks for your answer and the link. I saw you on a topic related to the ntoskrnl.exe problem, did you solve it since then? (My pc got the same problem before it died, for another reason).

Hey mattiasync, indeed you are right, the 3600x seems pretty good for the price. But im confuse with intel vs amd, i even remember seeing a old post from you saying that intel will be better at handling midi latency and vst heavy use, and that you prefer amd as you dont care for latency. But maybe im mistaken and that was not you!
Old 17th July 2019
  #8530
Lives for gear
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
What's the rationale for recommending the i5 8600K at $312 ($360 on Newegg) when the Ryzen 5 3600X offers 16% more performance at 80% (70%) the cost?

Or the non-x with 13% more performance at 64% (57%) of the cost?
He wants a Intel; you got it? As usual you have a hard time making any sense. Saying he is safe is the same as recommending? By the way stop commenting on everything I comment on. Congratulation you are now the first one I have on ignore on Gearslutz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Alright daskeladden, thanks for your answer and the link. I saw you on a topic related to the ntoskrnl.exe problem, did you solve it since then? (My pc got the same problem before it died, for another reason).
It's been fixed on insiders release. Soon the official fixed version will be released
Old 17th July 2019
  #8531
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

lol... you 2 make this thread more fun....
Old 17th July 2019
  #8532
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Since you are going to do a lot of real time processing Single Core performance is pretty important. The i5 8600k do it pretty good in the single core benchmark test:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
Since the i5 8600k also has 6 cores you should be fine
Once again: these benchmarks are only valid for applications which ONLY USE 1 CORE.
A DAW uses ALL cores, hence the cores will run with a very different speed.

To those who do want to know about this:
In detail: these benchmarks run with one core with Turbo 2 or Turbo 3, which means that single core is much faster than it ever would do in a DAW scenario. So if you have a CPU with a moderate all core Turbo but with a high peak Turbo, this is simply misleading.

Another factor is that since the i5 has no Hyperthreading, you are automatically skipping 25% performance opposed to a CPU with HT.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8533
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axb312 View Post
Hey guys,

In the process of acquiring components to build an i9900k or a 3900x machine.

I am wondering what cases the fines folks on here would recommend.. I'm currently trying to decide between the Silent Base 601 and the NZXT H700, which are decently priced where I am.

I would also like to know, when adding fans to a case, how are these fans normally powered and controlled? Can anyone who's added fans to either case mentioned above speak about airflow and noise levels?
Check https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...-cases-of-2018
Make sure the case can house the CPU cooler
Old 17th July 2019
  #8534
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Hey mattiasync, indeed you are right, the 3600x seems pretty good for the price. But im confuse with intel vs amd, i even remember seeing a old post from you saying that intel will be better at handling midi latency and vst heavy use, and that you prefer amd as you dont care for latency. But maybe im mistaken and that was not you!
It probably was me, and it probably was before the latest AMD CPUs came out. If you feel comfortable with Intel go Intel.

I only pointed that out to the other guy because a) he's clearly biased against AMD, and b) that chart isn't the best way to measure DAW performance. It's not just me who has pointed that out to him but he won't listen.

If you want to see better more relevant testing head over to http://www.scanproaudio.info/ and check the DAWbench results. Even if you go with an Intel CPU you'll be able to see how various Intel CPUs perform against each other - actually using DAWs and virtual instruments.

PS: It's fine to be biased against AMD by the way, whatever floats one's boat. It's just better to be a bit more neutral when recommending things to other people - or 'validating' their choices. I'll willingly admit that I won't buy Intel because of their business practices as well as because I think more competition is better, but I'll also admit that they offer great performance, especially when it comes to the type of work you want to do. Not saying AMD doesn't, just saying they don't make crap products. I think that's fair (without looking at borderline irrelevant benchmarks).
Old 17th July 2019
  #8535
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

You can pop the fan clips and move it up for RAM
but will obviously reduce total cooler clearance.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8536
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
Check https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...-cases-of-2018
Make sure the case can house the CPU cooler
Hey man!

Nice to see you on here too!

Both cases I mentioned fit the Noctua cooler. the NZXT one costs about 40 USD more where I am.

The Silent Base is supposed to be good but I read some worrying reports about it's thermal performance..

Most of the other cases on the gamersnexus list are too expensive where I'm at. I was hoping for some not so well known suggestions that could fit the bill...
Old 17th July 2019
  #8537
Lives for gear
 
goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Alright daskeladden, thanks for your answer and the link. I saw you on a topic related to the ntoskrnl.exe problem, did you solve it since then? (My pc got the same problem before it died, for another reason).

Hey mattiasync, indeed you are right, the 3600x seems pretty good for the price. But im confuse with intel vs amd, i even remember seeing a old post from you saying that intel will be better at handling midi latency and vst heavy use, and that you prefer amd as you dont care for latency. But maybe im mistaken and that was not you!
I recently made the jump from an Intel i5 4460 to a Ryzen 3600, and the Ryzen knocks absolute spots out of my old i5 system, without any issues, halved my overall latency easily without any hard tweaking at all. Best thing I did was building this new system around the Ryzen 3600.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8538
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Once again: these benchmarks are only valid for applications which ONLY USE 1 CORE...
If somebody actually said that, you certainly proved them wrong. But nobody said that. Actually it would not be a valid benchmark for an application that only uses one core because an application benchmark measures a system not an individual component. That is, disk, ram, mobo, cpu all contribute to overall performance.

My own view is that if I want an idea of single core performance, I use a cpu benchmark which has a single core performance benchmark. I believe a previous poster stated that based on a single core benchmark, the cpu had good single core performance. I can't understand how that can even be debatable.

Yes, the turbo mode appears to be governed to an indeterminate amount by the overall heat of the chip--from the documentation I read on it, which is influenced by activity of other cpus. So I keep that in mind. By the same token, because turbo mode is indeterminate, you can not be more precise about it than calling it a factor of an unknown amount.

I have the pleasure of building my own systems a component at a time. So I look at component performance. I can do things like seeing that I have a cpi-e ssd that can use 4 lanes, I can ensure the socket I plug it into supports 4 lanes, and further ensure that said socket does not share bandwidth with sata drives as one of my pci-e slots does. I am not going to pick my components based on a system benchmark that runs a simulated application load.

To a different subject: One thing I noticed that's nice about my asus z390 prime mobo is that it can drive a fan with DC or PWM and auto-detects what the fan uses. So, no more buying fans based on whether the mobo is putting out dc or PWM.

Last edited by ponzi; 17th July 2019 at 08:18 PM..
Old 17th July 2019
  #8539
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
...PS: It's fine to be biased against AMD by the way, whatever floats one's boat. It's just better to be a bit more neutral when recommending things to other people - or 'validating' their choices. I'll willingly admit that I won't buy Intel because of their business practices as well as because I think more competition is better, but I'll also admit that they offer great performance, especially when it comes to the type of work you want to do. Not saying AMD doesn't, just saying they don't make crap products. I think that's fair (without looking at borderline irrelevant benchmarks).
So at any given time you might be recommending AMD due to performance or, in the alternate, to your political beliefs (as that floats your boat)--or maybe both mixed together in some unknown combination. Probably a good idea to be clear with that as other people might not select their components based on the 'business practices' of the vendors, and be expecting objective functional information.

Last edited by ponzi; 17th July 2019 at 09:39 PM..
Old 17th July 2019
  #8540
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Yo!

I want to build a new pc, and im wondering if the i5 8600k would be great for what i want : im playing/controlling in real time in ableton (with a midi keyboard, one push2 and a midi controller) lots of virtual instruments like omnisphere 2 or serum. Let's say that that a heavy project for me got like a maximum of 30/40 tracks with vsts, drumracks, effects, samples..on a average project its more like 15/30.. So all of that with a low buffer size (128 or 96) for optimal latency without drops.

Unfortunately im on the phone and my pc is out, so its diffilcult for me to check benchmarks with a small screen..

So i wanted to first know if the i5 8600k is a good choice. I also wanted to ask what type of motherboard seem the best to you? What characteristic are you looking for the motherboard when building a pc for music production? I think i need at least 8/10 usb ports on it but the rest i cant tell.

Thanks for your help

Ps : if there are cheaper CPU alternatives that could fit my needs i will be curious to hear it, but i've heard the intel is best for heavy vst usage in real time with low latency so i think it will be intel no matter what
For that money I would push to a 3700x 8 core 12 thread cpu

Buying a 6 core cpu now when there are better and faster options is madness...

The more cores and threads the better..
Old 17th July 2019
  #8541
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
So at any given time you might be recommending AMD due to performance or, in the alternate, to your political beliefs (as that floats your boat)--or maybe both mixed together in some unknown combination. Probably a good idea to be clear with that as other people might not select their components based on the 'business practices' of the vendors.
Good god man, what's wrong with you?!??!

- I recommended Intel to people in general before Zen 2, and I did so because Intel's chips performed better, performed better on the VI test, and/or because for the longest time Thunderbolt was Intel only.

I've been very clear about that and very consistent.

The only times I've argued "in defense" of AMD it's been when people either made incorrect statements about Ryzen or when it was worth while pointing out that not everybody needs the best VI performance there is or Thunderbolt.

I don't think I ever advocated that anyone buy AMD because of what I think about Intel as a company... which has f-all to do with "political beliefs"... I don't think I've ever used that as an argument for AMD chips. I have no idea where you got the above idiotic idea from, but it certainly shouldn't have been from what I wrote.

-------

In this thread, we should really stick to being clear and consistent. And I think I've been entirely clear and consistent. Now, as a contrast, "that other guy" went out of his way to promote the idea that Intel was best because of singe-core performance.

He provided evidence.
A chart.
That chart proved his point supposedly.

Then came Zen 2.

Not really a word about the new leader in performance. Right? And so when the other person asked if it was possible to get another chip (than i5) to save the obvious choice would for "this other guy" to have suggested the Ryzen six-core chips... if he had been consistent.

------

So my only point was that you (anyone) pick what parameters matter and then you stick to that and discuss it honestly and openly. When a user asks "is there something performing equally for less money" and you (anyone) choose NOT to mention such an option then you're not really helping, right?

My views on Intel as a corporation and my decision not to support it because of that has NEVER been the basis for a recommendation I've made.

Don't distort things.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8542
Gear Head
 
Matth30's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
It probably was me, and it probably was before the latest AMD CPUs came out. If you feel comfortable with Intel go Intel.

I only pointed that out to the other guy because a) he's clearly biased against AMD, and b) that chart isn't the best way to measure DAW performance. It's not just me who has pointed that out to him but he won't listen.

If you want to see better more relevant testing head over to http://www.scanproaudio.info/ and check the DAWbench results. Even if you go with an Intel CPU you'll be able to see how various Intel CPUs perform against each other - actually using DAWs and virtual instruments.

PS: It's fine to be biased against AMD by the way, whatever floats one's boat. It's just better to be a bit more neutral when recommending things to other people - or 'validating' their choices. I'll willingly admit that I won't buy Intel because of their business practices as well as because I think more competition is better, but I'll also admit that they offer great performance, especially when it comes to the type of work you want to do. Not saying AMD doesn't, just saying they don't make crap products. I think that's fair (without looking at borderline irrelevant benchmarks).
alright alright thanks! I dont want to start a dispute here

Right now im looking to the ryzen 7 3700x, looks like a good compromise for'an additionnal 100 bucks compared to 5 3600. I have check the article from scanproaudio and it looks convincing. Still looking tho!
Old 17th July 2019
  #8543
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
alright alright thanks! I dont want to start a dispute here

Right now im looking to the ryzen 7 3700x, looks like a good compromise for'an additionnal 100 bucks compared to 5 3600. I have check the article from scanproaudio and it looks convincing. Still looking tho!
Regardless of what you end up leaning towards I would think giving it another couple of weeks might be good. Ryzen 3xxx is still fairly new so it's always good to have others 'bite the bullet' first... just in case something pops up out of the blue.

... and more importantly: Hopefully Intel drops prices to compete in which case you win when picking an Intel CPU!
Old 17th July 2019
  #8544
Gear Head
 
Matth30's Avatar
Alright thnaks for your advice! The problem is that i need to build a new pc quickly because i cant work, my old pc died yesterday.. So maybe im gonna go to the frontline and see what happen. Im not giving to myself more than maximum a week to decide
Old 17th July 2019
  #8545
Lives for gear
 
goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth30 View Post
Alright thnaks for your advice! The problem is that i need to build a new pc quickly because i cant work, my old pc died yesterday.. So maybe im gonna go to the frontline and see what happen. Im not giving to myself more than maximum a week to decide
I was in a similar position, couldldnt grab any Ryzens on launch day apart from 3600, so got it with a x570 so I can easily go upto a 3950 when/if I choose too
Old 17th July 2019
  #8546
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Regardless of what you end up leaning towards I would think giving it another couple of weeks might be good. Ryzen 3xxx is still fairly new so it's always good to have others 'bite the bullet' first... just in case something pops up out of the blue.
Pops out the blue ? Like what ? you get a stable B450 motherboard and a 3700x

For the money it destroys anything comparable to intel...

The 3700x is a magnificent cpu.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8547
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
Pops out the blue ? Like what ? you get a stable B450 motherboard and a 3700x

For the money it destroys anything comparable to intel...

The 3700x is a magnificent cpu.
I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying that it's usually a pretty decent approach to give it a bit of time before buying, regardless of what technology we're talking about. Aside from early deals I don't usually see a downside in giving it a month or so.

That's all.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8548
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying that it's usually a pretty decent approach to give it a bit of time before buying, regardless of what technology we're talking about. Aside from early deals I don't usually see a downside in giving it a month or so.

That's all.
The B450 X470 manufacturers have Bios ready...and in-fact performance will only improve with the Ryzen 3 series...so it’s a win if you wait and a win if you don’t.
Old 17th July 2019
  #8549
Deleted 5edf3fa
Guest
Yes, please buy Intel. Please support company with zero innovation, overpriced products that lag in performance behind its competitor while costing much more. Please let this company continue milking its loyal and clueless fan base.

Yes for stagnation, being slow and expensive. (Intel).

Hel no to innovation, fast and affordable products! (AMD)

Buy Intel because your grandpa had an Intel desktop and it worked fine for him. He also drove a 1992 Hyundai and it was a terrible car hence never buy a Hyundai again.

/sarcasm
Old 18th July 2019
  #8550
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Good god man, what's wrong with you?!??!
...In this thread, we should really stick to being clear and consistent. And I think I've been entirely clear and consistent. Now, as a contrast, "that other guy" went out of his way to promote the idea that Intel was best because of singe-core performance.

He provided evidence.
A chart.
Thank you for sharing your feelings.
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