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The "today we build our studio pc" thread
Old 23rd December 2018
  #6991
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Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholasr325 View Post
I'm mainly concerned how if it will work fine after I install two nvme drives which will use up 8 of my pcie lanes.
The Z390 Gigabyte motherboards with 2 NVMe usually takes lanes from
the SATA ports, the ones with 3 NVMe one also shares bandwidth with
the PCIeX4 slot.
The motherboard manual is your best friend...
Old 24th December 2018
  #6992
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
The Z390 Gigabyte motherboards with 2 NVMe usually takes lanes from
the SATA ports, the ones with 3 NVMe one also shares bandwidth with
the PCIeX4 slot.
The motherboard manual is your best friend...
I see, so it can either use bandwidth from SATA or PCIe just depends on the motherboard manufacturer. My previous motherboard used PCIe, hence the confusion.

I read through the manual and knew it would take the sata ports, but I also thought it used the PCIe, but this cleared it up. Don't need to be an ass about it, thanks.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6993
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
The 8086K is around $75 more - CHF 485 vs. CHF 412 (two different vendors).
That is also $75 closer to the i9 9900K.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6994
Last minute opinions? Price doesnt matter.
Gigabyte Designare or Master, or MSI MEG Ace for i9900k?
Im a composer with heavy vsti use. Low latency is my prime concern. Have rx580 already for video. Will be making my own video clips using davinci on this daw to.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6995
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRT_in_WMass View Post
That is also $75 closer to the i9 9900K.
But after reading quite a bit about all these things (which are new for me as a long-time Mac user), I got the impression that the 8700K or 8086K are better or at least equally suited for my needs (Reaper, no VSTis, no excessive track count, at times several plugins in series, Nebula and Acqua plugins, etc.) than the 9900K, including a price difference of up to $200. I might still not see the whole picture, though. I am still open and thankful for suggestions!
Old 24th December 2018
  #6996
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
Titan Ridge seems not to be available. I confirmed this with Gigabyte. Alpine Ridge should work and I also got Asus ThunderboltEX3 working in a Gigabyte board by connecting to the header pin by pin.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
But after reading quite a bit about all these things (which are new for me as a long-time Mac user), I got the impression that the 8700K or 8086K are better or at least equally suited for my needs (Reaper, no VSTis, no excessive track count, at times several plugins in series, Nebula and Acqua plugins, etc.) than the 9900K, including a price difference of up to $200. I might still not see the whole picture, though. I am still open and thankful for suggestions!
If an 8700K is sufficient, it likely represents a better value because the 9900K is currently overpriced for the performance it provides.* If you get a good quality Z390 motherboard (the Gigabyte Z390 line has the best VRMs at the moment), it would still be possible to upgrade to a 9900K in the future and sell the 8700K if it is not enough for your needs.

*Without question, the 9900K outperforms the 8700K/8086K/9700K; however the additional cost for that performance is disproportionately high. Further, running the 9900K at full speed demands much greater attention to cooling and case airflow, which can create a challenge if low noise is desired.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6998
Gear Maniac
 

It's around time for a new build for me as well but just saw coffee lake doesn't support avx512, I remember that for Nebula/Acqua avx2 definitely gave a boost in performance and looking at benchmark there's again a big advantage if software supports avx512. I'm also a bit worried that Spectre/Meltdown still aren't mitigated on hardware level and how much this impacts performance and safety.
Old 24th December 2018
  #6999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoltron View Post
GC-Titan Ridge is not available in Europe. I do not know why.
It's been a year since we've last seen an Alpine Ridge delivery! Finally turned up today, no idea when or even if they'll send us some Titan Ridge. One of the key reasons I don't tend to like working with them, as the stock has been erratic like this for years.
Old 24th December 2018
  #7000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
Did I understand Pete Kaine correctly that there have been issues with combining Corsair RAM with Gigabyte mobos?
It's been picky in the past and I know other users who don't use Corsair have better luck than I do.

The boards from any firm tend to work better with whatever they were developed with and I guess GB just doesn't have a bucket load of Corsair sat around. Maybe they just spend more time testing with other brands. To note, it isn't a major problem at stock, when I talk about this stuff it's mostly to do with overclocking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
Edit: And now I've just read that Reaper (my DAW of choice) spreads each single plugin over all available cores. Which again would be a vote for the 9900, I guess?
It puts each plug-in chain (i.e.channel) on the next free core and processes all those core loads side by side. It keeps doing them until the workload is finished or the ASIO buffer cycle is complete and then it starts again.

To do it the other way is rather CPU inefficient or at least that's as far as I'm aware. What have you seen that prompts you to say that?
Old 25th December 2018
  #7001
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
It's been picky in the past and I know other users who don't use Corsair have better luck than I do.

The boards from any firm tend to work better with whatever they were developed with and I guess GB just doesn't have a bucket load of Corsair sat around. Maybe they just spend more time testing with other brands. To note, it isn't a major problem at stock, when I talk about this stuff it's mostly to do with overclocking.



It puts each plug-in chain (i.e.channel) on the next free core and processes all those core loads side by side. It keeps doing them until the workload is finished or the ASIO buffer cycle is complete and then it starts again.

To do it the other way is rather CPU inefficient or at least that's as far as I'm aware. What have you seen that prompts you to say that?
Thank you!

I guess the thing about spreading the plugins was a misunderstanding, either from myself or the one who wrote that. I don't recall where I read that.
Old 26th December 2018
  #7002
Gear Nut
 

Would this set of memory be compatible with the Gigabyte Aorus Master Mobo? (With the Intel 9900k)
G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64Gig (4 x16GB) 288-Pin DDR4

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-64GTZR - Newegg.com
Old 27th December 2018
  #7003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffRider View Post
Would this set of memory be compatible with the Gigabyte Aorus Master Mobo? (With the Intel 9900k)
G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64Gig (4 x16GB) 288-Pin DDR4

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-64GTZR - Newegg.com
Probably... from the timings, it looks like Hynix chips, which are known to work fine with Intel boards. See if the QVL has similar modules listed, perhaps without RGB.
Old 27th December 2018
  #7004
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
Probably... from the timings, it looks like Hynix chips, which are known to work fine with Intel boards. See if the QVL has similar modules listed, perhaps without RGB.
Yeah - I've looked for some without RGB but so far that's all I've found.
Old 27th December 2018
  #7005
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffRider View Post
Yeah - I've looked for some without RGB but so far that's all I've found.
My Z370 Pro4/8700K system has 32GB (16GBx2) of very similar G.SKILL DDR4 3200 RAM (Hynix). No RGB and no problems. I suspect that their 64GB RGB kit uses the same chips.
Old 27th December 2018
  #7006
Gear Maniac
edit: I am not deleting this post, but I have changed my viewpoint away from this due to information included in the rebuttal reply further down the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
If an 8700K is sufficient, it likely represents a better value because the 9900K is currently overpriced for the performance it provides.* If you get a good quality Z390 motherboard (the Gigabyte Z390 line has the best VRMs at the moment), it would still be possible to upgrade to a 9900K in the future and sell the 8700K if it is not enough for your needs.

*Without question, the 9900K outperforms the 8700K/8086K/9700K; however the additional cost for that performance is disproportionately high. Further, running the 9900K at full speed demands much greater attention to cooling and case airflow, which can create a challenge if low noise is desired.
All else equal, using i9 9900k instead of i7 8700k raises the overal cost of the computer ~$200.

The builder has the option of delidding the 8700k and using direct on-die cooling at added cost and with voided warranty. Regardless cooling method, without delidding to replace the thermal paste with higher performing material (eg liquid metal), the build suffers the low grade thermal paste used under the lid of the 8700k and reduced performance associated with that. With unmodified processors clocked to the same thermal conditions, using a good cooler such as the DH15, clock to suffer same fan noise or enjoy the lack of it, I suspect that the 9900k will significantly outperform the 8700k.

Unless someone is living on the brink such that the $200 difference imposes major financial hardship, I do not see advantage in buying a new i7 8700k now, with intent of later reselling it used at a much lower price when it is older and less favored in the marketplace, while also then purchasing a new i9 9900k at a price that may not be very different from the price paid today. Doing all of that will very likely cost more than simply buying the 9900k now. In buying the 8700k for the first portion of the lifecycle, he uses the slower processor for the early portion of the computer's lifecycle, while suffering an increased total cost of ownership over the whole of that lifecycle instead of using the more powerful processor over the whole of the lifecycle at lower overall cost.

And a future upgrade effort will include the added bother of disassembling and reassembling the computer, heatsink, thermal paste, etc., to make the swap. That may further delay the upgrade, which can worsen the overall cost/performance ratio by extending the interval of use of the lower performing processor.

~$200.
Old 27th December 2018
  #7007
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRT_in_WMass View Post
All else equal, using i9 9900k instead of i7 8700k raises the overal cost of the computer ~$200.

The builder has the option of delidding the 8700k and using direct on-die cooling at added cost and with voided warranty. Regardless cooling method, without delidding to replace the thermal paste with higher performing material (eg liquid metal), the build suffers the low grade thermal paste used under the lid of the 8700k and reduced performance associated with that. With unmodified processors clocked to the same thermal conditions, using a good cooler such as the DH15, clock to suffer same fan noise or enjoy the lack of it, I suspect that the 9900k will significantly outperform the 8700k.

Unless someone is living on the brink such that the $200 difference imposes major financial hardship, I do not see advantage in buying a new i7 8700k now, with intent of later reselling it used at a much lower price when it is older and less favored in the marketplace, while also then purchasing a new i9 9900k at a price that may not be very different from the price paid today. Doing all of that will very likely cost more than simply buying the 9900k now. In buying the 8700k for the first portion of the lifecycle, he uses the slower processor for the early portion of the computer's lifecycle, while suffering an increased total cost of ownership over the whole of that lifecycle instead of using the more powerful processor over the whole of the lifecycle at lower overall cost.

And a future upgrade effort will include the added bother of disassembling and reassembling the computer, heatsink, thermal paste, etc., to make the swap. That may further delay the upgrade, which can worsen the overall cost/performance ratio by extending the interval of use of the lower performing processor.
The fact is that not everyone needs 9900K level performance; however, for those who do, 9900K is the obvious choice. However, for those who do not, it could be a poor value as well as a challenge to keep cool. And no, the 8700K simply does not produce the same amount of heat as the 9900K, and thus does not require the extreme attention to cooling and motherboard VRM quality (see video below).

In other words, the highest performance CPU is not always the best solution for everyone; processing requirements differ. For some, even an 8700K is overkill. Additionally, numerous reviews have called attention to the 9900K's dubious value for money considering the alternatives; yes, the 9900K is the highest performing current consumer desktop chip, but that should not make it the automatic choice for everyone. The "best" system is always contextual, as in best for that specific user's needs.

YouTube

Last edited by 12Bass; 28th December 2018 at 03:59 AM..
Old 27th December 2018
  #7008
Lives for gear
 

More on 9900K thermals/throttling here:

YouTube

YouTube
Old 28th December 2018
  #7009
Here for the gear
On a budget, for Cubase 10 and Komplete 11:

i7-8700 6 core 3.2 Ghz Coffee Lake
32 GB DDR4 RAM
1 TB SSD primary drive
4 TB HHD secondary drive
Asus Essence stx ii sound card
Windows 10 Pro
Be quiet case and power supply

quite fast - about 1400
Old 29th December 2018
  #7010
Gear Maniac
Thank you for countering my comment, and for schooling me with some interesting and very useful information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
More on 9900K thermals/throttling here:
Old 29th December 2018
  #7011
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

I have some info on my 9900k build.



I installed a Corsair H115i Platinum, Note not the pro H1150 pro. Different pump etc...Temps on the 9900k where quite good.

I ran Prime Small FFT - Basically a more than real world scenario for any DAW or even Video editing workstation

I then decided to add another two Corsair 140mm ML pro fans in a push pull configuration and shaved around 4c off my temps...

This is running at 4.7ghz (all cores)



CPU Package was 79c (well within spec and Radiator fans running at around 700 RPM- Silent

I have One Gentle Typhoon 120mm on the rear and two Gentle Typhoons on the case roof in an exhaust config running on a fan controller at around 7volts.

Gaming wise The chip runs at around 65 c
In the DAW environment it varies but never gets super hot on any level.

Is pumping more volts worth it for 300 mhz more? I have a new mobo incoming to test...Current Mobo is the ASROCK Z390 Extreme 4

There is a lot of scaremongering about the 9900k...When in fact if you know what you are doing you can have a really quiet beast of a PC.

I paid £469 for the 9900k and the 8700k was £379 only £90 more.

Once I get the new mobo to test I'm hoping for 5ghz all cores at around 1.3v

Old 29th December 2018
  #7012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
... There is a lot of scaremongering about the 9900k...When in fact if you know what you are doing you can have a really quiet beast of a PC.
Nice!

The last part of the statement is key... people need to know what they're getting into with the 9900K and choose the right parts for the job. It is certainly possible to keep it cool and quiet, but not without some attention to detail, particularly with regard to cooling and motherboard VRM quality. That can mean some extra time and expense; but for some the extra performance would be well worth it. 9900K is a beast for DAW systems! I'd go as far as saying that a DAW is one of the few applications where a 9900K makes sense (given the value and performances of the AMD 2700X).

Should also mention that the 9900K seems to be a better value now that prices have come down (though apparently not here in Canada where prices are still well above suggested retail).
Old 29th December 2018
  #7013
sbs
Gear Nut
 
sbs's Avatar
 

Any one know if these new versions will be notable for DAW use?

Of course, if they produce a KLF version, it's sure to be a hit...
Old 29th December 2018
  #7014
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Nice build man; 4.7GHZ all 8 cores.
you could probably take it to 4.9GHZ or more if you are feeling greedy.

What is the temps on a big project? I bet they don't hit 65c...prime95 is
brutal.
Old 29th December 2018
  #7015
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Nice build man; 4.7GHZ all 8 cores.
you could probably take it to 4.9GHZ or more if you are feeling greedy.

What is the temps on a big project? I bet they don't hit 65c...prime95 is
brutal.
Cheer buddy

Its the Asrock Extreme 4 thats the issue with 5ghz....Tried everything to get it stable but nope...I've swapped it for a Asus Maximus Z390 Hero...Arrives tomo...I bought the Hero as I was intrigued about the new Phase VRM tech they implemented ( 4 phase Fat) and its getting high clocks on it...The problem with the 9900k and clocking it up is vcore...I may have mediocre silicon but tomo I will find out.

The Asrock Board is a 12 phase VRM but in my experience, over the past 25 years building and clocking computers, there is more to a mobo than just its VRM. The Asrock VRM maybe 12 phase but that meant jack clocking this 9900k to 5ghz....

Gigabyte was an option but I hate their BIOS with a passion and my last Gigabyte mobo with a 5930k was tat....Anyway I'll be making my own judgement on the the Asus Z390 Hero and doing some extensive testing.

My goal is 5ghz all cores at decent temps.If the Hero can do that I'll keep it.

9900k hovers around 50-55c being productive and 28c when when surfing the net ! most of the time and the system runs very very quiet. But Small FFT in prime is a brutal test and one of the reasons why I run it. In everyday tasks and productivity the CPU would never be under that much load...
Old 29th December 2018
  #7016
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

yes, fellow computer nerd/builder here too...and sometimes I do music..lol

Thanks for the info; good luck with the new board.
I hope your in 5GHZ territory soon; although 300mhz bump probably
won't be that much of a noticeable bump
More of bragging rights and see how your chip does at its max.

We should all thank AMD for kicking Intel into finally giving us more
cores. and maxed out clocks. If ZEN was not good; we would be stuck at 4 cores 8 threads for ever...lol..

I'm really interested if the next ryzen chip will be on par in single thread.
Old 29th December 2018
  #7017
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
yes, fellow computer nerd/builder here too...and sometimes I do music..lol

Thanks for the info; good luck with the new board.
I hope your in 5GHZ territory soon; although 300mhz bump probably
won't be that much of a noticeable bump
More of bragging rights and see how your chip does at its max.

We should all thank AMD for kicking Intel into finally giving us more
cores. and maxed out clocks. If ZEN was not good; we would be stuck at 4 cores 8 threads for ever...lol..

I'm really interested if the next ryzen chip will be on par in single thread.
Yeah..5ghz is a nice round number I want to know what the chip is capable of!

The Ryzen 2700x is a stocking chip but the way the memory system works means its an inferior choice for latency etc...compared to intel.

I'm looking forward to what Ryzen 3000 brings to the table...
Old 29th December 2018
  #7018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
Its the Asrock Extreme 4 thats the issue with 5ghz....Tried everything to get it stable but nope...I've swapped it for a Asus Maximus Z390 Hero...Arrives tomo...I bought the Hero as I was intrigued about the new Phase VRM tech they implemented ( 4 phase Fat) and its getting high clocks on it...The problem with the 9900k and clocking it up is vcore...I may have mediocre silicon but tomo I will find out.
From what I've gathered, the 9900K can really show the weakness in motherboard VRM implementation, particularly when overclocked. Liquid cooling can exacerbate the issue if there's inadequate overflow over the VRMs.

The Maximus Z390 Hero appears to have solid VRMs. Please let us know how it works out.

I've suggested caution regarding the 9900K because not everyone has over two decades of building experience like yourself. While definitely an excellent CPU, it requires some knowledge and effort to get it working reliably at high clocks without thermal issues. This is not much of a problem for an experienced builder/overclocker, though even experts like der8auer have expressed some reservations....
Old 29th December 2018
  #7019
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
From what I've gathered, the 9900K can really show the weakness in motherboard VRM implementation, particularly when overclocked. Liquid cooling can exacerbate the issue if there's inadequate overflow over the VRMs.
Most modern cases have fan mounts. And as long as air is moving around the VRM area it would be fine. A Noctua D15 would be the cooler to get for a standard user, IMO

Alot of you tubers test on open bench test rigs with no air...So In a PC chassis of quality ,one would be fine. My 9900k build case was not expensive Phanteks P400s but it offers a built in Fan controller 2 top Fan mounts, 1 Rear and space for 3 x 120mm fans or 2 x 140mm fans at the front.

Quote:
The Maximus Z390 Hero appears to have solid VRMs. Please let us know how it works out.
Will do...

Quote:
I've suggested caution regarding the 9900K because not everyone has over two decades of building experience like yourself. While definitely an excellent CPU, it requires some knowledge and effort to get it working reliably at high clocks without thermal issues. This is not much of a problem for an experienced builder/overclocker, though even experts like der8auer have expressed some reservations....
9900k, Noctua D15 and a decent mobo and 4.5ghz would be achiavble for most with decent case cooling.

The chip is hot and once you hit 5ghz and vcore above 1.3 - 1.35 v you need Watercooling. I was going to build a custom loop but didn't really have the time and will be happy 5ghz 24/7

Old 29th December 2018
  #7020
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Note: I have the Fans connected to the H115i via a splitter...I'm getting twice as much airfllow at the same RPM..

Noise is the same...

Idle temps 31c

I cue reports two fans but there are 4 on a splitter so they both spin at the same rate



Load temps mid 60's across running Cinebench R15



The extra Airflow has also dropped the 1080ti temps down both at load and and idle. Was sitting at about 60c idle...Now its 52 c
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