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The "today we build our studio pc" thread Audio Interfaces
Old 4 days ago
  #6871
Gear Head
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post

My audio interface is a MOTU PCIe version. In my current build, it picks up noise from the graphics card. Some people install shielding between the two to help deal with this. My experiment here is to put it in an external Thunderbolt 3 -> PCIe enclosure that I picked up. No idea if or how well that will work. I do a fair bit of video rendering/editing, so the video card is essential.
Since you have a pci Audio Interface it is impossible to separate pc power and audio interface. But as general rule:
Don't put the speakers and audio interface power in the same power strip
Don't put the pc power and audio interface power in the same power strip
Don't put the pc power and speaker power in the same power strip


Old 4 days ago
  #6872
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Since you have a pci Audio Interface it is impossible to separate pc power and audio interface. But as general rule:
Don't put the speakers and audio interface power in the same power strip
Don't put the pc power and audio interface power in the same power strip
Don't put the pc power and speaker power in the same power strip


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
It's been a long time since I've seen that in the wild. Certain it's not some kind of grounding issue?

Which manufacturer is the current board that's causing it? Gigabyte?
Thanks guys. All good tips, but I've spent a year tracking this down. It's just noise from the graphics card in the same case. It's not a ground hum or a cable noise. It also only happens when playing games, at which time, moving windows around on the screen can make it worse (it's not interference from the mouse, though). If my office/studio wasn't dead silent otherwise, I'd probably not even notice it.

I'll eat crow later if it turns out to not be this, but all roads are pointing to interference inside the case, from the nvidia card. It's frustrating to track because it doesn't always happen.

It's an old PCIe card, no longer made. It's possible the grounding on the card itself is bad, or just not well thought out.

It doesn't make much sense to me, given how the signals are transmitted to the rack units, but I'll give it a whack anyway.

Motherboard is an ASUS Z170 with a 6700K in it.

The power strip thing is decent advice, but completely ignores that everything in a given room is generally on the same circuit in the house. If the issue is power-related, you need other ways of isolating and conditioning power. (This is something with a fair bit of mythology around it as well. Unless you have some sort of isolating, *everything* in your house goes to the same set of cables from the power company. In most houses, it's the same hot bus bar in the service entry. Breakers themselves are not in any way isolation. That said, I have my lights on a separate circuit from equipment, and have the PC "rack" on its own dedicated circuit.)

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6873
Here for the gear
 

I would like to ask a few questions - had to register new, I had once an account here, which seems to be inactive now - might be 15+ years ago...

I am thinking about building a new DAW since the new 9900k in combination with Cubase 10 etc could make some serious sense.. I am on a system I built 2014 based on an Asus P9X79-E WS Intel X79 running an Intel Core i7 4930K. 32GB Ram.. Various Samsung EVO SSDs.. No Overclocking. This system serves me well, I made dozens of albums with it. But I tend to have big mixes, track counts often well above 500 tracks, I would like to have some more juice

Processing power / stability etc is more then fine for most projects, though - and - in an "economic way" I surely would be able to continue work the next years on this machine.. but.. well..

I did quite some research - after using ASUS boards for the last 18+ years exclusively I now would like to try the new Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE - at least this board seems to be very attractive for a DAW - and it was mentioned here as well already. Alternatively the Aorus Ultra/Master seems to be a nice option.. I do not use Thunderbolt but it is surely a nice to have thing since I feel that this DAW could last for the next 5 years at least.

I just put all components on a list, don't know if this works:

System Builder - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core, Radeon RX 570 4 GB PULSE, Obsidian Series 700D ATX Full Tower - PCPartPicker

The Obsidian Case I would like to re-use as well as an Corsair 860 Watt Corsair AXi which could be re-used. On the other hand side it could be a nice/safe thing to buy a new Case / PSU to be able to not interrupt the studio work..

But here my questions, maybe one experienced DAW builder can help me out a bit here (I built my DAWs since 18+ years but I am doing 100% studio work when not in need of a new system and things are changing so fast - so I have to ask a bit):

VGA:

I am (atm) a quad head display user - I am using a NVIDIA Quadro NVS 450 (which was quite expensive years ago). I plan to maybe go to a new route with just one curved ultra large screen - and the one on my side showing analyzers etc..

Since I need 4 DVI ports till I go for the one (or two) screens solution I am not sure what to do.. My first idea was to go for a "2GB PNY Quadro P620 4xmDP" since I never had issues with that NVIDIA Quadro card... that way I could first use the 4 old (DVI) screens (with adapters) and later I can migrate to one or two 4K or whatever screens.

I researched and it would be a better thing to go the AMD route, because it will give me lower latencies. So why not.. But I have some difficulties to find a good card - all of them are adressing gamers - and I need these 4 outs.. I found the 4GB Sapphire Radeon RX 570 Pulse to be most likely capable for my task. I hope it is possible to first use this card with adapters .. Any ideas here? Would this be a good card for a DAW? I was under the hope to find a "smaller" one, one wich does not come with that much fans and stuff.. like hat NVIDIA card.


Mainboard:

I need 8 SATA connections - the ASUS I am using ATM has 8.. currently that much hard discs and SSD in my computer. All these boards are giving only 6. I can use an external DVD drive, connected with USB, which will safe one slot. I will use a 970 EVO as System drive, this will safe me another SATA port.. BUT that PC Part Picker list told me

"The motherboard M.2 slot #1 shares bandwidth with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports. When the M.2 slot is populated, two SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports are disabled.
The motherboard M.2 slot #2 shares bandwidth with a SATA 6.0 Gb/s port. When the M.2 slot is populated, one SATA 6.0 Gb/s port is disabled."

This sucks big time! What to do? Is external storage the way to go, since all these new and fast USB connectors exists? Am I missing something?

... and I still can not decide which board I will buy The Designera or one of these Aorus... I tend to the Designera...

Oh and one last thing... RAM... I always purchased slower but very solid RAM.. but which kind of RAM will do fine in that system?

Is 3200 just fine? I choosed 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit first but I can not find it in the Designera compatiblity list.. the Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 should be supported. Is it possible to just use the 2 x 16 GB version instead? The 16GB module is not listed, though.. Any hints regarding which RAM should be fine?


Regarding everything I wrote: I do only studio work on that system. No gaming! Nothing but audio recording and mixing..


Ok, that's it so far - I hope these are not too many questions for my first post ^^

Greets,
Brandy

EDIT: In the computer I have a UAD Quad PCIe and an RME Raydat (PCIe). After the PCI slots changed a couple of times the last 2 decades it seems that I can keep on using these cards.
Old 4 days ago
  #6874
Gear Head
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post

It's an old PCIe card, no longer made. It's possible the grounding on the card itself is bad, or just not well thought out.
You have probably done this but have you tried to put the sound card in another pci lane. Graphic card in lane 1 and sound card in lane 4. If that does not work try the opposite
Old 4 days ago
  #6875
Lives for gear
 
was silents's Avatar
 

Hey everyone.

Thank you all for sharing so much invaluable information and insight.

Since around Black Friday I have been researching a new dedicated audio production PC build as my Del XPS 9000 has totally expired.

Having followed much advice here at Gearslutz as well as elsewhere on the interwebs, I am about to pull the trigger on the following build.



PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($549.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($84.43 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($175.44 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($96.10 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design - Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case ($152.60 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($84.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1346.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-06 17:35 EST-0500


I am good with electronics but impatient when it comes to computer problems. My goal is to build a quiet PC recording system that will allow me to produce demos over the next 8 years or so without redirecting a lot of time and energy to IT troubleshooting. I’m kind of old school; heavy on outboard gear with vst usage mostly limited to drums and auxiliary sampling. I plan to record at 24/48 via RME UCX and my active tracks count will likely stay below 40 mono at no longer than 6 min per tune. (please excuse any misuse of language)

My two questions are:

1: Are there any red flags I should be aware of that are apparent in this build?

2: It is best to have a boot drive on SATA and a tracking drive on PCIE or does it matter?

Sincere thanks again. My musical life wouldn’t be the same without gearslutz!
Old 4 days ago
  #6876
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by was silents View Post
2: It is best to have a boot drive on SATA and a tracking drive on PCIE or does it matter?
I'd get a motherboard that has more M.2 ports so you can put both boot and tracking drives as M.2 drives. There is a significant performance difference between M.2 and SATA.

I would want a boot drive to be M.2 simply because that way you're set for a while, and it's a bit of a hassle to change your OS drive later. But you can also benefit from M.2 being the tracking drive, or the drive that has your sample libraries as they will load much faster.

In other words, get your drives maxed out with performance and capacity (like 1TB units) from the start, it saves you a lot of time later even if it costs a bit more up front. Most other things you can easily swap out later as you need.
Old 4 days ago
  #6877
Lives for gear
 
was silents's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandomonium View Post
I'd get a motherboard that has more M.2 ports so you can put both boot and tracking drives as M.2 drives. There is a significant performance difference between M.2 and SATA.

I would want a boot drive to be M.2 simply because that way you're set for a while, and it's a bit of a hassle to change your OS drive later. But you can also benefit from M.2 being the tracking drive, or the drive that has your sample libraries as they will load much faster.
Thanks Pandomonium! I'll plan to do that. Much appreciated!
Old 4 days ago
  #6878
Gear Addict
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Thanks guys. All good tips, but I've spent a year tracking this down. It's just noise from the graphics card in the same case. It's not a ground hum or a cable noise. It also only happens when playing games, at which time, moving windows around on the screen can make it worse (it's not interference from the mouse, though). If my office/studio wasn't dead silent otherwise, I'd probably not even notice it.

I'll eat crow later if it turns out to not be this, but all roads are pointing to interference inside the case, from the nvidia card. It's frustrating to track because it doesn't always happen.

It's an old PCIe card, no longer made. It's possible the grounding on the card itself is bad, or just not well thought out.

It doesn't make much sense to me, given how the signals are transmitted to the rack units, but I'll give it a whack anyway.

Motherboard is an ASUS Z170 with a 6700K in it.

The power strip thing is decent advice, but completely ignores that everything in a given room is generally on the same circuit in the house. If the issue is power-related, you need other ways of isolating and conditioning power. (This is something with a fair bit of mythology around it as well. Unless you have some sort of isolating, *everything* in your house goes to the same set of cables from the power company. In most houses, it's the same hot bus bar in the service entry. Breakers themselves are not in any way isolation. That said, I have my lights on a separate circuit from equipment, and have the PC "rack" on its own dedicated circuit.)

Pete
Your service usually consists of 2 power legs 60° out of phase and a neutral.
Looking at your breaker panel, you usually have 2 rows of breakers. 1 row is
on one leg the other on the 2nd leg. You can get good isolation by using circuits
on separate legs, however since it is very unusual for a room in your house to
have outlets from different power legs you would have to add a breaker or use
an existing one that is not at it's outlet limit by code, which you would be
unlikely to find and add/wire an extra outlet or more to your studio/room.

Last edited by throbert; 4 days ago at 12:18 AM..
Old 4 days ago
  #6879
Gear Head
 
daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by was silents View Post
Hey everyone.
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($175.44 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($96.10 @ OutletPC)
That motherboard has a thunderbolt header which is a good thing if you want a thunderbolt port in the future. Gigabyte has at least two Z390 motherboards (Xtreme and Desingnare) with internal thunderbolt ports just for information. Another thing I would suggest is a Samsung 970 EVO 500GB M.2 SSD for system and plugins. And 1TB Samsung - 860 Evo for your libraries and stuff like that
Old 4 days ago
  #6880
Lives for gear
 
was silents's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
That motherboard has a thunderbolt header which is a good thing if you want a thunderbolt port in the future. Gigabyte has at least two Z390 motherboards (Xtreme and Desingnare) with internal thunderbolt ports just for information. Another thing I would suggest is a Samsung 970 EVO 500GB M.2 SSD for system and plugins. And 1TB Samsung - 860 Evo for your libraries and stuff like that

Cool daskeladden. More good info! Sincerely appreciated! Thank you!
Old 4 days ago
  #6881
Gear Addict
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
Processing power / stability etc is more then fine for most projects, though - and - in an "economic way" I surely would be able to continue work the next years on this machine.. but.. well..

I did quite some research - after using ASUS boards for the last 18+ years exclusively I now would like to try the new Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE - at least this board seems to be very attractive for a DAW - and it was mentioned here as well already. Alternatively the Aorus Ultra/Master seems to be a nice option.. I do not use Thunderbolt but it is surely a nice to have thing since I feel that this DAW could last for the next 5 years at least.

I just put all components on a list, don't know if this works:

System Builder - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core, Radeon RX 570 4 GB PULSE, Obsidian Series 700D ATX Full Tower - PCPartPicker

The Obsidian Case I would like to re-use as well as an Corsair 860 Watt Corsair AXi which could be re-used. On the other hand side it could be a nice/safe thing to buy a new Case / PSU to be able to not interrupt the studio work..

But here my questions, maybe one experienced DAW builder can help me out a bit here (I built my DAWs since 18+ years but I am doing 100% studio work when not in need of a new system and things are changing so fast - so I have to ask a bit):

Mainboard:

I need 8 SATA connections - the ASUS I am using ATM has 8.. currently that much hard discs and SSD in my computer. All these boards are giving only 6. I can use an external DVD drive, connected with USB, which will safe one slot. I will use a 970 EVO as System drive, this will safe me another SATA port.. BUT that PC Part Picker list told me

"The motherboard M.2 slot #1 shares bandwidth with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports. When the M.2 slot is populated, two SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports are disabled.
The motherboard M.2 slot #2 shares bandwidth with a SATA 6.0 Gb/s port. When the M.2 slot is populated, one SATA 6.0 Gb/s port is disabled."

This sucks big time! What to do? Is external storage the way to go, since all these new and fast USB connectors exists? Am I missing something?

... and I still can not decide which board I will buy The Designera or one of these Aorus... I tend to the Designera...

Oh and one last thing... RAM... I always purchased slower but very solid RAM.. but which kind of RAM will do fine in that system?

Is 3200 just fine? I choosed 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit first but I can not find it in the Designera compatiblity list.. the Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 should be supported. Is it possible to just use the 2 x 16 GB version instead? The 16GB module is not listed, though.. Any hints regarding which RAM should be fine?


Regarding everything I wrote: I do only studio work on that system. No gaming! Nothing but audio recording and mixing..


Ok, that's it so far - I hope these are not too many questions for my first post ^^

Greets,
Brandy

EDIT: In the computer I have a UAD Quad PCIe and an RME Raydat (PCIe). After the PCI slots changed a couple of times the last 2 decades it seems that I can keep on using these cards.
The Aorus Ultra/Master is being reveiwed as having the best VRM set up of all MOBOs considered amoung all.

If your going with a new PSU why not a Corsair 750i Platinum, that should be plenty.

Most people seem to be using Fractal design cases here.

If not Gskill how about Crucial memory. 2200 should be plenty, audio work does not require fast memory.

The only way to get more SATA ports is obviously with a card
Old 4 days ago
  #6882
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
You have probably done this but have you tried to put the sound card in another pci lane. Graphic card in lane 1 and sound card in lane 4. If that does not work try the opposite
Thanks. Another good suggestion.

Yes, I have tried it. Distance between the cards seems to make the most difference. Although I did get glitching early on when the cards in different positions. That wasn't an interference issue, but a resource issue.

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
Your service usually consists of 2 power legs 60° out of phase and a neutral.
Looking at your breaker panel, you usually have 2 rows of breakers. 1 row is
on one leg the other on the 2nd leg. You can get good isolation by using circuits
on separate legs, however since it is very unusual for a room in your house to
have outlets from different power legs you would have to add a breaker or use
an existing one that is not at it's outlet limit by code, which you would be
unlikely to find and add/wire an extra outlet or more to your studio/room.
Good point, and one I hadn't considered.

They do all share a common ground and neutral, however. But I imagine separating them like you suggest could be a good way to do some basic isolation.

FWIW, I have two load centers here because I had the service expanded to 400 amps some years back.

When I wired up this home office/studio, I removed all of the existing circuits in here, and put in these new circuits that aren't shared anywhere else in the house:
  • 20A 120v dedicated for the PC just outside my door (has my main PC and my Minecraft server)
  • General 20A 120v utility circuit inside the room (speakers are attached to this)
  • Dedicated 20A 120V for possible CNC machine in back of room
  • Dedicated 20A 240V for other equipment in room
  • Dedicated 20A 120V for the mini split
  • Dedicated 15A 120V for lighting
  • Dedicated 20A 120V for sump pump and Radon fan (used to be on shared circuit)

The rest of the house has late 70s wiring, which means basically all the lights downstairs are on one circuit, and everything but the downstairs bathroom is on another. Upstairs, same thing, except for the wiring I did to isolate the kitchen.

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandomonium View Post
I'd get a motherboard that has more M.2 ports so you can put both boot and tracking drives as M.2 drives. There is a significant performance difference between M.2 and SATA.

I would want a boot drive to be M.2 simply because that way you're set for a while, and it's a bit of a hassle to change your OS drive later. But you can also benefit from M.2 being the tracking drive, or the drive that has your sample libraries as they will load much faster.

In other words, get your drives maxed out with performance and capacity (like 1TB units) from the start, it saves you a lot of time later even if it costs a bit more up front. Most other things you can easily swap out later as you need.
M.2 NVMA/PCIe. Keep in mind that there are still some M.2 SATA drives kicking around, and you'll get no perf boost from that.

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6885
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
VGA:

I am (atm) a quad head display user - I am using a NVIDIA Quadro NVS 450 (which was quite expensive years ago). I plan to maybe go to a new route with just one curved ultra large screen - and the one on my side showing analyzers etc..

Since I need 4 DVI ports till I go for the one (or two) screens solution I am not sure what to do.. My first idea was to go for a "2GB PNY Quadro P620 4xmDP" since I never had issues with that NVIDIA Quadro card... that way I could first use the 4 old (DVI) screens (with adapters) and later I can migrate to one or two 4K or whatever screens.
Not sure if you've considered this, but for my work, I use a 40" (apx) 4K screen, set to run at 100% DPI. If you are using 4 1920x1080 screens today, you'll get the same real estate from this one 4K screen.

It uses a single Displayport connection and, since you don't do gaming (or video editing, I assume) could be run from 9900K's on-board graphics.

I didn't pay a ton for this display. It's basically a TV from Korea. But it has a good refresh rate and decent color rendering.

I do have a small second display, but that's only because it's a touchscreen.

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6886
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Not sure if you've considered this, but for my work, I use a 40" (apx) 4K screen, set to run at 100% DPI. If you are using 4 1920x1080 screens today, you'll get the same real estate from this one 4K screen.

It uses a single Displayport connection and, since you don't do gaming (or video editing, I assume) could be run from 9900K's on-board graphics.

I didn't pay a ton for this display. It's basically a TV from Korea. But it has a good refresh rate and decent color rendering.

I do have a small second display, but that's only because it's a touchscreen.

Pete
Hi Pete,

thanks for your ideas! Well, it is a bit difficult - my desk is made/layouted for Tripple Head 19'' TFTs.. this is fine so far, I prefered Tripple Head all the time because I have no gap in the middle. Just my project or the mixer stretched over these 3 monitors. I have it since 2003, back those days I spent a fortune for 3 19'' TFTs and a Matrox Parhelia. But that is another topic.

Fact is: I am limited in space - 120 cm wide and somewhat between 36 and 40cm in high.

A 40'' screen would be awesome but it is to high.

I am just scratching my head between two options:

- 2 x 27'' with very small frame (so there is almost no gap) - this would fill that space more than pefect giving me a resolution of about 5120x1440.

- some kind of these new 37,5'' Curved screens with 3860x1600.

This resolution would be perfect but this will leave some unused space at the left and right - in addition to that I am not sure if that curved thing fits/looks nice in my setup/console.

ATM I am at 3860 wide (perfect) but only 1024 hight - and this is the PITA - newer Cubase Mixer-Views and large projects etc needs too much vertical scrolling..

So if I go the one-screen solution I could connect to the on-board VGA, which would be awesome.

The 2 Screen solution would need an additional card. I have to say that I have a 24'' screen on the side as well, this will be kept.
Old 4 days ago
  #6887
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
The Aorus Ultra/Master is being reveiwed as having the best VRM set up of all MOBOs considered amoung all.

If your going with a new PSU why not a Corsair 750i Platinum, that should be plenty.

Most people seem to be using Fractal design cases here.

If not Gskill how about Crucial memory. 2200 should be plenty, audio work does not require fast memory.

The only way to get more SATA ports is obviously with a card
Thanks for your respone!

So you think 750 watt is enough? I used 850 Watt Corsair PSU all the time, think both should be fine.. maybe 1000 Watt is a bit over the top..

I have a second system using a Fractal case, I built a system for a friend using the same case, I like it. But for my main system I most likely go for the 750D Big Tower from Corsair, this is a nice case..

Regarding the memory - I have to do more research..

Regarding the MoBo.. Yea, the Aorus Utra/Master is a nice one.. can not decide yet - is the Designare worse regarding the VRM?

Ah yea I have not thought about that PCIe card to SATA thing yet! Maybe this could be the solution for the slower stuff going on - older regular/slow HDs containing samples or production intermediate backups etc..

Could use the second M.2 Slot for a fast 1TB project SSD... but in my experience I can playback hundreds of tracks from a regular 850 EVO connected to SATA 6G port without any issues..

EDIT: Have to add - regarding the Case etc.. the computer is located in another room so size and noise is pretty much not an issue..
Old 4 days ago
  #6888
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
Hi Pete,

thanks for your ideas! Well, it is a bit difficult - my desk is made/layouted for Tripple Head 19'' TFTs.. this is fine so far, I prefered Tripple Head all the time because I have no gap in the middle. Just my project or the mixer stretched over these 3 monitors. I have it since 2003, back those days I spent a fortune for 3 19'' TFTs and a Matrox Parhelia. But that is another topic.

Fact is: I am limited in space - 120 cm wide and somewhat between 36 and 40cm in high.

A 40'' screen would be awesome but it is to high.

I am just scratching my head between two options:

- 2 x 27'' with very small frame (so there is almost no gap) - this would fill that space more than pefect giving me a resolution of about 5120x1440.

- some kind of these new 37,5'' Curved screens with 3860x1600.

This resolution would be perfect but this will leave some unused space at the left and right - in addition to that I am not sure if that curved thing fits/looks nice in my setup/console.

ATM I am at 3860 wide (perfect) but only 1024 hight - and this is the PITA - newer Cubase Mixer-Views and large projects etc needs too much vertical scrolling..

So if I go the one-screen solution I could connect to the on-board VGA, which would be awesome.

The 2 Screen solution would need an additional card. I have to say that I have a 24'' screen on the side as well, this will be kept.
In case you manage to steal some room somehow: my display is 90cm wide by around 55 high.

As you're finding out, the vertical space is key on these displays. Most applications don't make great use of horizontal space, but do well to have more vertical breathing room.

1024 high is barely supported by anything these days. Even the base OS windows and dialogs usually do better with a bit more.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Pete
Old 4 days ago
  #6889
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
VGA:
I researched and it would be a better thing to go the AMD route, because it will give me lower latencies. So why not.. But I have some difficulties to find a good card - all of them are adressing gamers - and I need these 4 outs.. I found the 4GB Sapphire Radeon RX 570 Pulse to be most likely capable for my task. I hope it is possible to first use this card with adapters .. Any ideas here?
Nice GPU, the fans only turns when hot, they got hot when doing 3D/games, for audio probably they will not turn...
I never used DisplayPort to DVI adapters, I guess will work...

Quote:
Mainboard:

I need 8 SATA connections - the ASUS I am using ATM has 8.. currently that much hard discs and SSD in my computer. All these boards are giving only 6. I can use an external DVD drive, connected with USB, which will safe one slot. I will use a 970 EVO as System drive, this will safe me another SATA port.. BUT that PC Part Picker list told me

"The motherboard M.2 slot #1 shares bandwidth with SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports. When the M.2 slot is populated, two SATA 6.0 Gb/s ports are disabled.
The motherboard M.2 slot #2 shares bandwidth with a SATA 6.0 Gb/s port. When the M.2 slot is populated, one SATA 6.0 Gb/s port is disabled."

This sucks big time! What to do? Is external storage the way to go, since all these new and fast USB connectors exists? Am I missing something?
Time to buy bigger HDs/SSDs.
You can still use 6 SATA + EVO 970 with Gigabyte Z390 Pro or Master, see:

Gigabyte Z390 Pro manual page 20
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...ifi_1001_e.pdf


Gigabyte Z390 Master manual page 34
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...1_181113_e.pdf


Maybe a ICY DOCK DuoSwap MB971SP-B will help.


Quote:
Oh and one last thing... RAM... I always purchased slower but very solid RAM.. but which kind of RAM will do fine in that system?

Is 3200 just fine? I choosed 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit first but I can not find it in the Designera compatiblity list.. the Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 should be supported. Is it possible to just use the 2 x 16 GB version instead? The 16GB module is not listed, though.. Any hints regarding which RAM should be fine?
This 2x16 have good price $249
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7ht...43000c15d32gtz
Was tested at
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...ry,4441-2.html
Works with Gigabyte Z390
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c15d-32gtz


For PSU I prefer a more silent model
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VgQ...-cp-9020180-na
This PSU still overkill, but will remain silent with your PC build.
Review https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...u,5568-11.html




--------------------------------------------------------



Quote:
Originally Posted by was silents View Post
Hey everyone.

Thank you all for sharing so much invaluable information and insight.

Since around Black Friday I have been researching a new dedicated audio production PC build as my Del XPS 9000 has totally expired.

Having followed much advice here at Gearslutz as well as elsewhere on the interwebs, I am about to pull the trigger on the following build.



PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($549.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($84.43 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($175.44 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($96.10 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design - Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case ($152.60 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($84.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1346.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-06 17:35 EST-0500


I am good with electronics but impatient when it comes to computer problems. My goal is to build a quiet PC recording system that will allow me to produce demos over the next 8 years or so without redirecting a lot of time and energy to IT troubleshooting. I’m kind of old school; heavy on outboard gear with vst usage mostly limited to drums and auxiliary sampling. I plan to record at 24/48 via RME UCX and my active tracks count will likely stay below 40 mono at no longer than 6 min per tune. (please excuse any misuse of language)

My two questions are:

1: Are there any red flags I should be aware of that are apparent in this build?
The Gigabyte Z390 Pro have wayyyyyyyyyyy better VRM.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MVP...z390-aorus-pro
See this post.
Quote:
2: It is best to have a boot drive on SATA and a tracking drive on PCIE or does it matter?
With a M.2 NVMe drive like the Samsung 970 EVO you can have all at the same drive...
Old 4 days ago
  #6890
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Kaine View Post
It's been a long time since I've seen that in the wild. Certain it's not some kind of grounding issue?

Which manufacturer is the current board that's causing it? Gigabyte?
I had a mic pre that picked up buzz from the monitor. New cables helped—thinking the old cables were not 100% shield coverage. I got all sorts of ferrite barrel beads to put on audio and video cable ends, but no joy. I sold a mic pre...

I will say my great river was impervious to the buzz. Moved the monitor to another computer later as part of an upgrade. The secon monitor in my daw did not throw off emi like its companion. Moral of the story—monitors can be emi antennas.
Old 3 days ago
  #6891
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post

1024 high is barely supported by anything these days. Even the base OS windows and dialogs usually do better with a bit more.
Pete, unfortunately you are so right with that..

Quote:

In case you manage to steal some room somehow: my display is 90cm wide by around 55 high.

As you're finding out, the vertical space is key on these displays. Most applications don't make great use of horizontal space, but do well to have more vertical breathing room.
Well, I usually have very large mixer views so horizontal space is needed as well, regarding vertical - more is more, of course!
But because of my monitoring / console I am somewhat limited here.

Maybe I just add two of these Dell - U2715H 27.0" 2560x1440 60 Hz Monitor (U2715H) - PCPartPicker for a quick-fix.. 1440 vertical is not THAT much but that setup will work with only very minor modifications of my console/monitoring. I am sold out completely at the moment, not a good timing for computer upgrades, but it seems that I need a quick fix.. I can use these monitors somewhere else later so maybe I find myself modifying my desk one day to make room for something LARGE :-)
Old 3 days ago
  #6892
Here for the gear
 

Pictus, thanks a lot for replying that detailed! I appreciate that a lot!

I hope it is fine to ask again - more detailed - to your responses


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
Nice GPU, the fans only turns when hot, they got hot when doing 3D/games, for audio probably they will not turn...
I never used DisplayPort to DVI adapters, I guess will work...
most likely this will be a very temp solution for low res screens (1280x1024) so it will be fine - but most likely I will swap monitors before swapping DAW ... So this card is fine for a DAW I think.. I am coming from a time (started with audio computers somewhere around 1998) were it was a golden rule NOT to use a powerful GPU because this will steal resources and stuff etc.. I guess this is pretty much not an issue any more..

Quote:

Time to buy bigger HDs/SSDs.
damn, that's right! I do not want to skip the - mostly quiet new - SSDs (all 1 TB EVO, between 840 and 860) - but some "data coffins" (HDs) coming to an certain age slowly - maybe I might go NAS or external OR just put in one big..

Quote:
You can still use 6 SATA + EVO 970 with Gigabyte Z390 Pro or Master, see:

Gigabyte Z390 Pro manual page 20
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...ifi_1001_e.pdf


Gigabyte Z390 Master manual page 34
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...1_181113_e.pdf

Ok, I do have to do some research regarding "PCIe" vs "SATA" - I am new to that M.2 thing, never used that, it came up "recently". So there are different "types" of M.2 drives - using the SATA standard or the PCIe?

What would be a good PCIe solution for that / these M.2 ports?

Regarding the "Gigabyte Z390 Pro or Master".. My current faves are these and the Designera - I guess all three of them will do fine.. when I do not need some the extra features of the Designera - will the Pro or Master do the better job or are they just a bit cheaper but DAW wise basically equal?


thanks for the hint! So these Modules are a better choice compared to the Corsair Vengeance? Because it's testet..


Thanks for the PSU recommendation - because the prices are in the same range I might just use that - as I said, the Computer is in another room "because I can" - and because this was REALY necessary 15 years ago.. but who knows..
Old 3 days ago
  #6893
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
Pictus, thanks a lot for replying that detailed! I appreciate that a lot!
I am glad to help.
Quote:
I hope it is fine to ask again - more detailed - to your responses


most likely this will be a very temp solution for low res screens (1280x1024) so it will be fine - but most likely I will swap monitors before swapping DAW ... So this card is fine for a DAW I think.. I am coming from a time (started with audio computers somewhere around 1998) were it was a golden rule NOT to use a powerful GPU because this will steal resources and stuff etc.. I guess this is pretty much not an issue any more..
No problem with AMD GPUs.
DPC latency better with AMD graphic cards (3 card comparison)
Quote:

damn, that's right! I do not want to skip the - mostly quiet new - SSDs (all 1 TB EVO, between 840 and 860) - but some "data coffins" (HDs) coming to an certain age slowly - maybe I might go NAS or external OR just put in one big..

Ok, I do have to do some research regarding "PCIe" vs "SATA" - I am new to that M.2 thing, never used that, it came up "recently". So there are different "types" of M.2 drives - using the SATA standard or the PCIe?
NVMe vs. M.2 vs. SATA – What’s the Difference?

Quote:
What would be a good PCIe solution for that / these M.2 ports?
I do not know
Good SATA port add-in card? - AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals
Quote:
Regarding the "Gigabyte Z390 Pro or Master".. My current faves are these and the Designera - I guess all three of them will do fine.. when I do not need some the extra features of the Designera - will the Pro or Master do the better job or are they just a bit cheaper but DAW wise basically equal?
The Designare can not do 6 SATA + NVMe.
Check manual page 29
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...1_181107_e.pdf

But like the Master/Pro the Ultra also can do, check manual page 20 http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...1_181120_e.pdf


Buy the Ultra.
Quote:
thanks for the hint! So these Modules are a better choice compared to the Corsair Vengeance? Because it's testet..
Yes.
Old 3 days ago
  #6894
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
I am glad to help.
Pictus, thanks again! I will think about all that now, for a while
Old 3 days ago
  #6895
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post



Buy the Ultra.

Yes.
After quite some research I tend to by the Ultra - indeed - though the Pro would be fine as well, since I do not need WLan and Bluetooth on the DAW..

The Ultra has an extra M.2 slot AND USB C.. So I might prefer the Ultra.

Anything what I am missing here?

I guess I can/should disable Bluetooth, WiFi as well as all these Audio things in the Bios in the very beginning..?

Thanks again for the help!

EDIT: The Samsung 970 Pro/Evo (M.2 Version) seems to be NVMe, or not? So when I use these SSDs the SATA slots will not be affected... ?
Old 3 days ago
  #6896
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post
After quite some research I tend to by the Ultra - indeed - though the Pro would be fine as well, since I do not need WLan and Bluetooth on the DAW..

The Ultra has an extra M.2 slot AND USB C.. So I might prefer the Ultra.

Anything what I am missing here?
I do not remember all the differences...
Like the Master/Xtreme the Ultra motherboard have more layers leading to better RAM wiring pathways.
Quote:
I guess I can/should disable Bluetooth, WiFi as well as all these Audio things in the Bios in the very beginning..?
Yes.
Quote:
Thanks again for the help!

EDIT: The Samsung 970 Pro/Evo (M.2 Version) seems to be NVMe, or not? So when I use these SSDs the SATA slots will not be affected... ?
You are welcome, they are NVMe and no problem with SATA ports as stated by the manual.
Old 3 days ago
  #6897
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
I do not remember all the differences...
Like the Master/Xtreme the Ultra motherboard have more layers leading to better RAM wiring pathways.

Yes.

You are welcome, they are NVMe and no problem with SATA ports as stated by the manual.
Great - thanks!! I am looking forward to build that machine. As I mentioned - I only spend time with Computer stuff every 4 years or something So much changed during that time and I have to start all over again.. In former days I had to upgrade the DAW more often since everything was maxed out all the time.... these days a solid i7 could work for ages..

Well, since you recommended these Gigabyte Boards quite a bit and I see other users going that way as well.. and I am an ASUS user since 20 years (my first audio computer was of course based on an ASUS board, Pentium2, 64MB Ram etc)

Would it be possible to guide us through a few important things to take care when setting up the bios? I tend to not overclock (have no clue about that and I prefer a 110% solid system) but I usually optimize the bios a lot, of course switching of "stuff".. on my recent system I had to disable C-State / throttling AFAIR.. I disabled a lot of these power saving options as well as I set some values to fixed values etc..

Most resources in the www are not dealing with "conservative" DAW use instead of that the geeks are fiddling around with fancy overclocking stuff, at leas I do not need that in the first place..

Brandy
Old 3 days ago
  #6898
Lives for gear
 
was silents's Avatar
 

You folks are pretty wonderful. Thank you. After considering the input, here is my new build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i9-9900K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($549.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($84.43 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z390 AORUS PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($180.77 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($129.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($117.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($147.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case ($152.60 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($84.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1448.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-07 13:55 EST-0500




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post

The Gigabyte Z390 Pro have wayyyyyyyyyyy better VRM.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MVP...z390-aorus-pro
See this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
That motherboard has a thunderbolt header which is a good thing if you want a thunderbolt port in the future. Gigabyte has at least two Z390 motherboards (Xtreme and Desingnare) with internal thunderbolt ports just for information.
LOL! right on Pictus. Funny, as soon as Pandemonium brought up the motherboard question and the M.2 issue, I re-researched and decided to go with the Aorus Pro. I suspected I might get some encouragement towards a Gigabyte board from you and am happy to be reinforced by your opinion. Thank you.

However, unless I add another $100 for a designaire, I'm giving up Thunderbolt for better VRM. Hard to predict where the value lies in details like this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandomonium View Post
I'd get a motherboard that has more M.2 ports so you can put both boot and tracking drives as M.2 drives. There is a significant performance difference between M.2 and SATA.

I would want a boot drive to be M.2 simply because that way you're set for a while, and it's a bit of a hassle to change your OS drive later. But you can also benefit from M.2 being the tracking drive, or the drive that has your sample libraries as they will load much faster.

In other words, get your drives maxed out with performance and capacity (like 1TB units) from the start, it saves you a lot of time later even if it costs a bit more up front. Most other things you can easily swap out later as you need.
I looked into this but, at the moment, very few z390 boards have more than two M.2 ports and I suspect I won't need more than that. However, it was especially helpful to bring the motherboard choice into question as I think a GBT Aorus will be the best match for the 9900k. Thank you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post

With a M.2 NVMe drive like the Samsung 970 EVO you can have all at the same drive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Another thing I would suggest is a Samsung 970 EVO 500GB M.2 SSD for system and plugins. And 1TB Samsung - 860 Evo for your libraries and stuff like that
So I have daskeladden's recommendation in my build but does it matter if the 860 tracking/sample drive is M.2 but not Nvme? It seems the 860s are not.

Should I dump the second drive altogether and try to work with just one larger 1tb 970 M.2 Name drive? I'm inferring this to be a more practical option from Pictus' helpful comments.

Thanks again everyone! Super grateful!
Old 3 days ago
  #6899
Gear Addict
 

The reason why the Gigabyte Z390 boards are recommended is because the 9900K is a very power hungry CPU and Gigabyte currently has the best power circuitry (VRMs) among the major motherboard manufacturers. As the videos and charts show above, some of the Z390 VRM implementations are marginal or clearly not suitable for supporting a 9900K. This ought to be a major consideration for those seeking a reliable system.
Old 3 days ago
  #6900
Gear Addict
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyB View Post

Well, since you recommended these Gigabyte Boards quite a bit and I see other users going that way as well.. and I am an ASUS user since 20 years (my first audio computer was of course based on an ASUS board, Pentium2, 64MB Ram etc)

Would it be possible to guide us through a few important things to take care when setting up the bios? I tend to not overclock (have no clue about that and I prefer a 110% solid system) but I usually optimize the bios a lot, of course switching of "stuff".. on my recent system I had to disable C-State / throttling AFAIR.. I disabled a lot of these power saving options as well as I set some values to fixed values etc..
Sorry, I can not do it, have not built any yet...
Quote:
Most resources in the www are not dealing with "conservative" DAW use instead of that the geeks are fiddling around with fancy overclocking stuff, at leas I do not need that in the first place..
For audio it is usually better to set all cores to the same speed.



--------------------------------------------------------



Quote:
Originally Posted by was silents View Post

LOL! right on Pictus. Funny, as soon as Pandemonium brought up the motherboard question and the M.2 issue, I re-researched and decided to go with the Aorus Pro. I suspected I might get some encouragement towards a Gigabyte board from you and am happy to be reinforced by your opinion. Thank you.


Quote:
However, unless I add another $100 for a designaire, I'm giving up Thunderbolt for better VRM. Hard to predict where the value lies in details like this.
The VRM is the same(Ultra/Designare/Pro/Elite) with some differences in the heatsink and other things...
Anyway, can add a Thunderbolt card later.
Quote:

Should I dump the second drive altogether and try to work with just one larger 1tb 970 M.2 Name drive?
That is good.
I prefer to have an exclusive BOOT drive because the way backup/stuff is done here.
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