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Pro tools MBOX / MBOX 3 the saga...
Old 30th October 2010 | Show parent
  #31
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It's here, it's finally here and it works well so I am playing with pro tools I'll let you know how it sounds soon..
Old 30th October 2010 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 10 years
Cool! Looking foward to a good review!
Old 30th October 2010 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
It's here, it's finally here and it works well so I am playing with pro tools I'll let you know how it sounds soon..
Yes let the slutz know brother Dannyvect
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #34
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The Review

Well here it is....

Many moons have passed and the world has changed yet again since the arrival of my fully working Pro tools MBOX...

After a play here is what I thought..

Initial thoughts:

So I opened the CD case and installed the shipped pro tools LE 8.0.4., If you have XP SP2 you will have to upgrade to SP3 (I went straight to 7). The first noticable difference is a separate application for the sound unit itself which is like a small virtual mixing desk which you can pan / control sends and FX etc. for Analogue I/O, S/PDIF Which is cool.. As a soundcard outside of recording in pro-tools or your DAW of choice, it sounds excellent. Crystal clear sounds and cool effects like reverb you can add to general listening if you see fit to do so.

Build Quality:

Build quality is alot better (I mean alot better) than the mytoy equivalent Digi came out with years ago, metal chasis with solid plastic front make you feel like your not going to look at it too hard and it will melt or crack.

Pro tools:

I'm not going to get too much into this because the new version of pro tools comes with more than just the MBOX 3.. It has more plug-ins a smarter interface, the pack comes with a full DVD's worth of tutorials, melodyne essentials amongst other things which all seems worth it.

The MBOX:

I think alot of equipment you buy is dependant on what you want to achieve, I personally want to achieve the best possible, as good as proffesional (nearly) recordings on the least amount of money... Now don't get me wrong I don't want to sacrifice quality but I don't want to spend tens of thousands on equipment either. The main reason I bought the MBOX is pro-tools, but if I bought this unit as a stand alone with no external equipment e.g. external pre-amps I would be disappointed.

Now before it goes back up it is going to go down, the pre-amps in this unit are shocking... I have been using recording equipment for 10 years now and never have I found such dull lifeless pre-amps in a box (Besides an old MBOX 1 I have collecting dust somewhere).

Here are a small amount of I/O sound unit's I have had before with a score and price comparing to the MBOX in my opinion for small studios. (I'm from UK so I'm converting)

MBOX 3 / $796.10 or £500.00 / Pre-amp rating 2
Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 / $953.73 or £599.00/ Pre-amp rating 8.5
Focusrite Pro 24 / $396.46 or £250.00 pre-amp rating 7.5
M-Audio Profire 2626 / $633.00 or 398.00 pre-amp rating 6.0

(All tested with an AKG C414 and C4000B)

Now the Pro 24 sounded fantastic and I know you are paying the premium for Pro-tools with the MBOX, but surely you would expect some good quality for your money?

Never to fear, I knew the pre-amps would never be that good from the MBOX so I bought an external pre-amp made by TC Helicon for an extra $400 / £250. I completely bypassed the awful D/A convertors and used the S/PDIF into the back of my pre-amp, to say the least it sounds fantastic, it really is crystal clear sound with no noise or latency (if there is, I can't hear it) running at 48K on an external clock from my TC.

Another thing I found quite annoying is you have to map the S/PDIF to analogue in the new OS Mixing desk to get it to make sound. Obviously I never read the manual and try to figure out everything myself (We all love to play with toys)

Conclusion:

As a digital S/PDIF I/O for pro-tools it is an excellent if not slightly pricey solution, but if you want a decent DA / Preamp, complete one stop solution I would look else where.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 10 years
I gave up with Avid / PT under Windows. I think it was their copy protection schems - something was always in the way of it working properly. It did not like drive names, M$ Internet Explorer (can't blame it there!). If you must use PT, dedicate a Mac to it.

I switched to a more open system - MOTU I/O hardware, REAPER (plus Sonar and Acid). Runs great under Windows 7 64-bit with a quad processor and a pretty nice system for about 25% the price of an Apple.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djemberecords View Post
I gave up with Avid / PT under Windows. I think it was their copy protection schems - something was always in the way of it working properly. It did not like drive names, M$ Internet Explorer (can't blame it there!). If you must use PT, dedicate a Mac to it.

I switched to a more open system - MOTU I/O hardware, REAPER (plus Sonar and Acid). Runs great under Windows 7 64-bit with a quad processor and a pretty nice system for about 25% the price of an Apple.
Actually this is one thing I can't blame It for, pt 8 with win 7 and my box is as solid as a rock. Shame about getting a duff piece of hardware at the start.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #37
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🎧 15 years
Thanks for your review.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #38
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd-cd View Post
Thanks for your review.
No problem mr.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #39
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Now before it goes back up it is going to go down, the pre-amps in this unit are shocking... I have been using recording equipment for 10 years now and never have I found such dull lifeless pre-amps in a box (Besides an old MBOX 1 I have collecting dust somewhere).

Here are a small amount of I/O sound unit's I have had before with a score and price comparing to the MBOX in my opinion for small studios. (I'm from UK so I'm converting)

MBOX 3 / $796.10 or £500.00 / Pre-amp rating 2
Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 / $953.73 or £599.00/ Pre-amp rating 8.5
Focusrite Pro 24 / $396.46 or £250.00 pre-amp rating 7.5
M-Audio Profire 2626 / $633.00 or 398.00 pre-amp rating 6.0

(All tested with an AKG C414 and C4000B)

Now the Pro 24 sounded fantastic and I know you are paying the premium for Pro-tools with the MBOX, but surely you would expect some good quality for your money?
Now, I've not used the Mbox 3 so I'm not disagreeing with your opinion. I've used the 002/003/Mbox 2 though, and from what you're saying, it sounds like the Mbox 3 is a step back? Because the 002 wasn't great, the Mbox 2 likewise, the 003 a bit better....

With the focusrite - you're commenting on the non-liquidmix inputs right? because otherwise you're looking at modeling, which isn't a fair comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Never to fear, I knew the pre-amps would never be that good from the MBOX so I bought an external pre-amp made by TC Helicon for an extra $400 / £250. I completely bypassed the awful D/A convertors and used the S/PDIF into the back of my pre-amp, to say the least it sounds fantastic, it really is crystal clear sound with no noise or latency (if there is, I can't hear it) running at 48K on an external clock from my TC.
So, your preamp has A/D AND D/A? you're monitoring through the preamp, or you're going preamp, bypassing the A/D of the Mbox 3 and in digitally, then monitoring via the Mbox clocked to the TC?

Again, I've not used the Mbox 3, I can't comment on the A/D D/A side, but it really sounds crazy that a £250 preamp with inbuilt conversion is that much better...you're listening in a good room, and you've had help with blind tests right? or it's just that different that it's obvious to everyone's mother?

This review is really contrary to everything else I've read on the boxes, that's why I'm questioning it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Another thing I found quite annoying is you have to map the S/PDIF to analogue in the new OS Mixing desk to get it to make sound. Obviously I never read the manual and try to figure out everything myself (We all love to play with toys)
I don't know if this is similar to the 8.1 routing, but if it is, there's a good reason for it - it makes moving between rigs (eg Studio HD rig to home edit system) much much easier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Conclusion:

As a digital S/PDIF I/O for pro-tools it is an excellent if not slightly pricey solution, but if you want a decent DA / Preamp, complete one stop solution I would look else where.
Talk about damning with faint praise! doesn't the Mbox 2 do all that?!

EDIT - reading your comment in your preamp thread about how you connected up the external preamp in the first place, I don't really think you've done significant testing to comment on how good the A/D conversion is! Certainly wasn't a fair test! If it wasn't a clean sound (ie there's electrical buzz/hum) then you've almost certainly done something wrong, for a start. The only differences that connecting the preamp analogue and digital should be things that people describe as "air", "weight", "width" and so on - and then, it's subtleties. I can tell the difference when A/Bing between our aurora and the 003, but play one straight at me and ask me to identify it and I'd struggle I think. If one is buzzing or crackly, and the other crystal clean, you've got other issues not related to conversion.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Now, I've not used the Mbox 3 so I'm not disagreeing with your opinion. I've used the 002/003/Mbox 2 though, and from what you're saying, it sounds like the Mbox 3 is a step back? Because the 002 wasn't great, the Mbox 2 likewise, the 003 a bit better....
To be honest I have never been a massive fan of DIGI / Avid hardware coming from an analogue world or just using expensive studios in the past (I'm not comparing high end studios to an MBOX by the way, I do want bang for buck though)..
I have had tried or bought most of them so far and sold them for various reasons, I think the MBOX 2 was a step back from the MBOX 1 and the MBOX three is as good as the MBOX1.
You have to remember £500.00 has come out of my own pocket for this I want it to be good, but I'm not going to lie saying dude it's awsome when it's competitors beat it round the head for half the price. If I didn't have a collection of other gear to compare it to I probably would of given it a better review.
Only reason I set off on this adventure is the record label has stopped paying for it's bands to record and I have always been a keen amateur sound techie for about ten years (and wanted a new toy

Quote:
With the focusrite - you're commenting on the non-liquidmix inputs right? because otherwise you're looking at modeling, which isn't a fair comparison.
You would be right in assuming that

Quote:
So, your preamp has A/D AND D/A? you're monitoring through the preamp, or you're going preamp, bypassing the A/D of the Mbox 3 and in digitally, then monitoring via the Mbox clocked to the TC?
I use the SPDIF to bypass the analogue inputs on the MBOX3 but I am monitoring from the MBOX, the clock source is set by the external hardware via S/PDIF also.

Quote:
Again, I've not used the Mbox 3, I can't comment on the A/D D/A side, but it really sounds crazy that a £250 preamp with inbuilt conversion is that much better...you're listening in a good room, and you've had help with blind tests right? or it's just that different that it's obvious to everyone's mother?
It is very obvious, I'm a singer as well as an engineer.. To say that it sounds dull and strips the frequencies out of my voice would be a true statement.. Your forgetting that half of the £500.00 for the MBOX will most likely to be for pro tools and the rest will be for all the line in's and sound features. I bet the Pre-amps in the Mbox don't cost a fortune opposed to my dedicated pre-amp which is a rack mount made for voice only and the price of the unit has come down from £500.00

Quote:
This review is really contrary to everything else I've read on the boxes, that's why I'm questioning it!
There's no reason not to.. But I have used it's rivals and had high expectations of the MBOX that it does not live up to. If it was not for pro tools I would not be interested in AVID and would of gone Focusrite / RME.

Quote:
I don't know if this is similar to the 8.1 routing, but if it is, there's a good reason for it - it makes moving between rigs (eg Studio HD rig to home edit system) much much easier.
They could of made the routing on it's own seperate channels to the master out, the mixer software has it's own screens for analogue and SPDIF why not use them?

Quote:
Talk about damning with faint praise! doesn't the Mbox 2 do all that?!
I really hoped they would get it right this time so there competition would not stand a chance, I am disappointed.

Quote:
EDIT - reading your comment in your preamp thread about how you connected up the external preamp in the first place, I don't really think you've done significant testing to comment on how good the A/D conversion is! Certainly wasn't a fair test! If it wasn't a clean sound (ie there's electrical buzz/hum) then you've almost certainly done something wrong, for a start. The only differences that connecting the preamp analogue and digital should be things that people describe as "air", "weight", "width" and so on - and then, it's subtleties. I can tell the difference when A/Bing between our aurora and the 003, but play one straight at me and ask me to identify it and I'd struggle I think. If one is buzzing or crackly, and the other crystal clean, you've got other issues not related to conversion.
The test was straight into the MBOX with an XLR and a MIC (using an AK c414 con with phantom), the difference is astonishing, there are no crackles or interference issues but it just sounds bad compared to alot of other equipment I have..

It's not even as good as the £250.00 half priced focusright saffire 24.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #41
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🎧 15 years
OK now I know I'm not buying a regular Avid Mbox, I'd get a Pro or another brand.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sd-cd View Post
OK now I know I'm not buying a regular Avid Mbox, I'd get a Pro or another brand.
Depends if you can live without pro-tools..
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
Depends if you can live without pro-tools..
I can but I don't want to ;-)
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sd-cd View Post
I can but I don't want to ;-)
Lol I know the feeling
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #45
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
To be honest I have never been a massive fan of DIGI / Avid hardware coming from an analogue world or just using expensive studios in the past (I'm not comparing high end studios to an MBOX by the way, I do want bang for buck though)..
I have had tried or bought most of them so far and sold them for various reasons, I think the MBOX 2 was a step back from the MBOX 1 and the MBOX three is as good as the MBOX1.
Nah, that IS rubbish - I have used both original Mbox and Mbox2, and the 2 is vastly superior IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
I use the SPDIF to bypass the analogue inputs on the MBOX3 but I am monitoring from the MBOX, the clock source is set by the external hardware via S/PDIF also.
Ok, that clears things up - you said you were using the D/A of your preamp above, I was confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
It is very obvious, I'm a singer as well as an engineer.. To say that it sounds dull and strips the frequencies out of my voice would be a true statement.. Your forgetting that half of the £500.00 for the MBOX will most likely to be for pro tools and the rest will be for all the line in's and sound features. I bet the Pre-amps in the Mbox don't cost a fortune opposed to my dedicated pre-amp which is a rack mount made for voice only and the price of the unit has come down from £500.00
It's fair to say that yes, the Mbox 3 is likely to be made to a price point lower than a comparable standalone interface - but your voice strip also has extra gubbins doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
They could of made the routing on it's own seperate channels to the master out, the mixer software has it's own screens for analogue and SPDIF why not use them?
Like I said, I've not looked into this for the Mbox 3 - only for HD8.1, the routing there has changed and it's initially confusing but once you get your head around it, makes a lot more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
I really hoped they would get it right this time so there competition would not stand a chance, I am disappointed.
If I was this disappointed, I think I'd have sent it back and got a 2nd hand Mbox2, since you're not using any of the new features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyvect View Post
The test was straight into the MBOX with an XLR and a MIC (using an AK c414 con with phantom), the difference is astonishing, there are no crackles or interference issues but it just sounds bad compared to alot of other equipment I have..
I'm not talking about the preamps here - I'm talking conversion. You said the conversion was awful, and praised the clean sound of the TC - yet in your other thread you mention you were connecting preamp to line ins with dog-chewed 1/4" jacks? did you go balanced in to the line ins, then compared the conversion?
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #46
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sd-cd View Post
OK now I know I'm not buying a regular Avid Mbox, I'd get a Pro or another brand.
The pro isn't going to be much different bar the different io/connections etc.

Remember - this is just one opinion. Many others hold more positive views.
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Nah, that IS rubbish - I have used both original Mbox and Mbox2, and the 2 is vastly superior IMO.




Ok, that clears things up - you said you were using the D/A of your preamp above, I was confused.



It's fair to say that yes, the Mbox 3 is likely to be made to a price point lower than a comparable standalone interface - but your voice strip also has extra gubbins doesn't it?



Like I said, I've not looked into this for the Mbox 3 - only for HD8.1, the routing there has changed and it's initially confusing but once you get your head around it, makes a lot more sense.



If I was this disappointed, I think I'd have sent it back and got a 2nd hand Mbox2, since you're not using any of the new features.



I'm not talking about the preamps here - I'm talking conversion. You said the conversion was awful, and praised the clean sound of the TC - yet in your other thread you mention you were connecting preamp to line ins with dog-chewed 1/4" jacks? did you go balanced in to the line ins, then compared the conversion?
I think there is a bit of confusion somewhere here, I tried the balanced cables. I was not greatly impressed so I used the SPDIF..

How is the MBOX 2 vastly superior?? For a start the MBOX1 had focusrite PRE's that were better, the amount of problems I have seen on the net with these unit's is unfathomable and they are still cheap and plastic.. But anyway it does not really matter and I don't want to get into an arguement because I will probably need your help at some point so I'll stay on your good side , It all depends on what your using it for..

I'm just going to get some recording done now because at least it's stable. Plus what's the alternative a PT HD rig? I have used one for a year or so and yes it sounds amazing but when just the sound card and the pre cost's you 4K +... A 004 maybe when it comes out??
Old 31st October 2010 | Show parent
  #48
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Actually a note on the above I am considering a PT HD Native setup in the future.... Hmm saucy..
Old 29th June 2012
  #49
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardi View Post
It's a known issue. This sample rate issue seems to affect a certain batch of the new MBox's.

AVID will be in touch with you and will ship you a new one.
Is this really legit? I've been tearing my hair out since last November trying to figure out why I can't run at 48kHz.

Don't mind me if this is irrelevant (the sound quality argument is not why I'm here) but upon hooking my mbox up to an o-scope found that the transistor controlled output compresses past 3 o'clock. I'll try and post some pics of the waveform when I get back from Tampa.

Sent from my HTC One X using Gearslutz App
Old 13th July 2012 | Show parent
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentile1990 View Post
Is this really legit? I've been tearing my hair out since last November trying to figure out why I can't run at 48kHz.

Don't mind me if this is irrelevant (the sound quality argument is not why I'm here) but upon hooking my mbox up to an o-scope found that the transistor controlled output compresses past 3 o'clock. I'll try and post some pics of the waveform when I get back from Tampa.

Sent from my HTC One X using Gearslutz App
It got resolved a long time ago, being honest I bought these when they literally came out. The sound quality issues etc. were down to the hardware being faulty I have a big mixer now and needed a mobile rig, so I bought one again and TBH I've not had an issue and it sounds great.

Can't complain.
Old 13th July 2012
  #51
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAMD View Post
It got resolved a long time ago, being honest I bought these when they literally came out. The sound quality issues etc. were down to the hardware being faulty.
If the "it" you're taking about is the compression on the output, you're mistaken. The reason the MBox has such good signal to noise figures is similar to how the old Neotek consoles did it. The transistor mutes the source when not in use.


Sent from my HTC One X using Gearslutz App
Old 14th July 2012 | Show parent
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentile1990 View Post
If the "it" you're taking about is the compression on the output, you're mistaken. The reason the MBox has such good signal to noise figures is similar to how the old Neotek consoles did it. The transistor mutes the source when not in use.


Sent from my HTC One X using Gearslutz App
I'm not talking about that at all, I'm talking about the -10 % speed modulation due to a hardware fault.. Not sure where you pulled that one from, I saw what your talking about as a benefit not an issue. As I said if you read my post, I bought another one "IT SOUNDS GREAT".
Old 30th November 2012
  #53
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Admittedly, my temper is high, and my patience with these things is short. By trying to get away from Sony's ACID pro6, I purchased an Avid MBoxG3. I follow the instruction exactly how to install the thing. And barely into the installation process, it tells me to abundant the precess because the product does not pass the Windows logo test? I just updated all my drivers on my Windows XP professional system and I cannot understand what is happening? (The dialogue text instructs me to contact the vendor) Any suggestions.
Franz

Last edited by Franz Grueter; 30th November 2012 at 09:28 PM.. Reason: spelling error
Old 1st December 2012
  #54
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🎧 5 years
It is simply amazing that a big corporate people like Avid cannot provide users with a simple and working way to set up their software. I have been trying to install their Mbox3g for the last couple of days and each time (ignoring the logo test or not) there is nothing happening. Suggestion: maybe one day the Avid corporate people will take a look at Solidworks and see how they set up their software and then help you get going very fast with learning their program. Avid, corporate people, wake up!
Old 1st December 2012 | Show parent
  #55
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Am I correct that the mbox pro 3 (firewire) is now discontinued? Doesn't show that on Avid, but does say it on a bunch of retailer websites. Not referring to the older usb model, but the current firewire.
Old 13th January 2013 | Show parent
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Am I correct that the mbox pro 3 (firewire) is now discontinued? Doesn't show that on Avid, but does say it on a bunch of retailer websites. Not referring to the older usb model, but the current firewire.
Hmm: Avid | Pro Tools and Mbox Pro 8x8 Audio Interface - Mac and Windows Computer Recording Hardware and Software Bundles from Avid

I just wanted to do a little update, it's been two years.. In that time I bought a slurry of interfaces.. I mean a lot of them for my mobile rig, the other day I saw an MBOX PRO for £350.00 so I thought what the hey..

Not only did I have NONE of the issues I had before, the whole thing was working in less than 5 minutes and sounded great.. Pulls punches a lot higher than you would expect. I had £2000.00 to spend on a mobile interface for PC and I have to say I'm very happy so far.. Which is the complete opposite to the first encounter..
Old 14th January 2013 | Show parent
  #57
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🎧 5 years
Your post inspired me to bid on an ebay auction.

Got an Mbox Pro and Ableton 8 for $320.
Old 15th January 2013 | Show parent
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontariomaximus View Post
Your post inspired me to bid on an ebay auction.

Got an Mbox Pro and Ableton 8 for $320.
I thought I got a massive bargain, also Avid do a deal where you can trade the pro in for a HD native rig.. I'm so tempted... Stop me.. Someone.. NOOO! LOL!
Old 20th January 2013 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The Mbox 3 Pro has not been discontinued at all. But the hardware only version has. Avid is only selling the package that's bundled with the Protools software, unlike before where you had a choice.

On the flip side, the regular Mbox 3 and Mbox 3 Mini that came bundled with full Protools were discontinued, and now they only sell the hardware only versions of those (but they do come with Protools Express, a very lite version).
Old 20th January 2013
  #60
Baz
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🎧 15 years
Download REAPER and enjoy your new Mbox
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