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Sony charges for PT 7 plugin updates DAW Software
Old 27th November 2005
  #1
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Sony charges for PT 7 plugin updates

...10 pounds per plugin.... dfegad

Who else thinks this sucks bigtime ?
Old 27th November 2005
  #2
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drew's Avatar
seems reasonable to me. i don't expect companies to support software forever. if they had to do a bunch of recoding to make them work then they should be able to recover some of that. stay on 6.9 and you won't have to pay them anything.
Old 27th November 2005
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew
if they had to do a bunch of recoding to make them work then they should be able to recover some of that.
wouldn't they be payed for that work trough new customers, paying for a compatible product?
Old 27th November 2005
  #4
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Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 

Software companies are in business to make money. Programers have to pay rent and buy groceries just like everyone else. If you write code for a living you expect to be paid for it. Free updates are cool, but reasonable fees are well...............reasonable.



Old 28th November 2005
  #5
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Upgrading to PT7 isn't free. Why is it ok to pay Digidesign and not Sony? Doesn't really bother me.
Old 28th November 2005
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
title's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
Upgrading to PT7 isn't free. Why is it ok to pay Digidesign and not Sony? Doesn't really bother me.
well put. i paid for my 7hd and sony upgrades. happy camper here.
companies like Coda/Finale do this anually, where they have a ton of features that come out at once and you pay an upgrade/subscription fee. seems like a resonable and smart way for a software company to make sure they have a roof over their heads...

so to answer the original question, no i DONT think this sucks big time at all.. jmo
Old 28th November 2005
  #7
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
...10 pounds per plugin.... dfegad

Who else thinks this sucks bigtime ?

Old 28th November 2005
  #8
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Some weeks ago it was me, who said that Sony´s plugin politics is so much better than Waves´. I was wrong in the end.

Let´s make following clear:

* I (STILL ) love my Sony plugs
* Sony´s service & support (STILL) is grade A

I was one of those fools, who bought every single Sony plugin in the single version, when they came out first and not in some digidesign massive pack / Sony bundle, which means that I paid three times the price than others.

In my language this means that I´m a grade A customer, while others are grade B customers. Different treatment should be a logical step. However - Sony seems to make no difference. I´ll keep that in mind in the future.

What I expect from Sony is in deed to guarantee that the plugin is running on the current TDM system without aditional costs for updates.That´s what I paid for when I bought them.

they however didn´t include new features in the PT 7 versions and as far as i know the plugins are also not more dsp efficient than the old versions.

With PT 7 I´m having tons of new features & all the dgid plugin upgrades. O.K. - I pay for that.

With OS tiger I´m having tons of new features also. So I pay for that too.

But the Sony plugs still don´t have better sound, functionality, features, which are worth the charging.

So nothing changed for me. However - nothing costs me 70 Euro for 4 plugin updates, which can´t do nothing more than to run on PT 7.

And I dare to say - again - that this sucks big time

The longer I think about that plugin upgrade / money burning game the more it makes me sick of software. Buying hardware eq´s/ comps is cheaper in the end
Old 28th November 2005
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
Upgrading to PT7 isn't free. Why is it ok to pay Digidesign and not Sony?
but you'll get some new features when you upgrade to PT7, when you upgrade sony plug-ins all you get is compatibilty.
Old 28th November 2005
  #10
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StoneinaPond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
but you'll get some new features when you upgrade to PT7, when you upgrade sony plug-ins all you get is compatibilty.
How about Sony just charges you for a completely new product?

"...all you get is compatibilty..."

I'm missing something here.
Old 29th November 2005
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
title's Avatar
 

as a TDM Sony owner you also have the RTAS version. the new 7 versions have been optimized for the new RTAS improved engine (150% as stated by digi). and now you can put RTAS on AUX and Master tracks in PT 7. there is some added value for you. thumbsup
Old 29th November 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 

maybe one should forget about the principal of 'buying' software, and just rent.

seems more fair than all these elaborate schemes of suckering more money out of the end-user.

if you pack a cd rom in a box, and present it as an actual item (not some elusive license deal or what the fu'ck they call it), one should be able to expect support for free for at least ten years imo.

like it's that much work to get a plug-in to work in an updated environment,

mr Frindle seems to have enough time on his hands on the Massenburg forum anyway, lol.
Old 29th November 2005
  #13
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
maybe one should forget about the principal of 'buying' software, and just rent.

seems more fair than all these elaborate schemes of suckering more money out of the end-user.

if you pack a cd rom in a box, and present it as an actual item (not some elusive license deal or what the fu'ck they call it), one should be able to expect support for free for at least ten years imo.
Ten Years? What developer gives you free support and updates for ten years?

Spend 200 man hours a week for 4 months developing a quality plug-in in C++/ and licensing a copyright protection scheme, sell it for $300... watch as 80% of the actual users don't really pay for it and use a cracked version. Then watch every host you developed the plug-in for update their software which will require you another 80 man hours to be compatible with.

Do that once, then continue supporting those users at no cost and updating their software free of charge for the next 10 years.
Hell, just for s#its and giggles, price your plug @ $600 since you can advertise "10 years of free support!"

As a Developer, you will fail, go bancrupt, and close.

If it was possible to actually survive in the above scenario (let alone make a profit), developers would be doing it. Hell even developers that don't adopt the above scenario have a hard time staying afloat.
Old 29th November 2005
  #14
Gear Addict
 
nbrecording's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman

I was one of those fools, who bought every single Sony plugin in the single version, when they came out first and not in some digidesign massive pack / Sony bundle, which means that I paid three times the price than others.

In my language this means that I´m a grade A customer, while others are grade B customers.

LOL
Old 29th November 2005
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
I was one of those fools, who bought every single Sony plugin in the single version, when they came out first and not in some digidesign massive pack / Sony bundle, which means that I paid three times the price than others.
But the Sony plugs still don´t have better sound, functionality, features, which are worth the charging.
Same thing happened with emagic-apple. When they've got you by the balls, there is no escape. I do have this stored in my memory though. Never forget they f*cked me.
Bad service is bad service. Sony Emapple, all of those are really consumer milkers. That explains the attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
So nothing changed for me. However - nothing costs me 70 Euro for 4 plugin updates, which can´t do nothing more than to run on PT 7.
A professional plugin manufacturer should keep their product compatible with the host software. If there is no new functionality, there should be no extra charge. However, if it means the host software is a completely new thing, and code of the plugin will have to be rewritten, a charge for developing cost is reasonable. I don't use protrolls so I wouldn't know if PT7 is really so different under the bonnet. 10 USD is not that much, if they send you the disc. It will cover cost of manufacturing that disk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
Buying hardware eq´s/ comps is cheaper in the end
My conclusion entirely. I'm not on a revenge trip, but screw with me once, and I will not do business anymore. Simple math. Alas they (Emapple) got me by the nuts too. Otoh maintenance of hardware also costs money. No functionality improvement, just maintenance.
Old 29th November 2005
  #16
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syra's Avatar
I disagree with you Shaman.

And I'm happy Sony treats all of its customers the same (full price/Bundle).

You paid full price (like I did) because you wanted the plugs after hearing them. You could have taken your chances and waited a few months to see if they would be part of a massivepack or sm...I couldn't wait so I bought them.

As for paying money for updates, it makes sense as long as the price is reasonable. In this case (unlike waves) I think it is. For 10 pounds per plug I would be a happy camper.
Old 29th November 2005
  #17
Here for the gear
 

cheap

sounds cheap to me, they could have asked for twenty
Old 30th November 2005
  #18
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T_R_S's Avatar
They could charge you 10.00 per plug-in per year! -Like some other company does.
Old 30th November 2005
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
Ten Years? What developer gives you free support and updates for ten years?
none, if the developer is called TC they drop the product altogether

my point is that these guys pack the software in a nice box, and present it like you're actually buying 'a real thing'. when I buy something 'real' I expect it to last me about 10 years.

since software isn't a 'real' product, and all you get is a 'license',

maybe everyone should drop the false pretence of actually 'buying' software,

and let's all rent on a monthly basis.
Old 30th November 2005
  #20
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syra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
my point is that these guys pack the software in a nice box, and present it like you're actually buying 'a real thing'. when I buy something 'real' I expect it to last me about 10 years.

since software isn't a 'real' product, and all you get is a 'license',

maybe everyone should drop the false pretence of actually 'buying' software,

and let's all rent on a monthly basis.
Sort of good point there...I say sort of because software can easily last 10 years...actually you can use it without paying a penny more, until you die

I personally stopped "investing" on digital long time ago. I still have the original HD cards. Don't see the need to upgrade. I also don't see myself upgrading to PT7 any time soon...

As for the "real" factor...as I said above, 90% of my gear money goes towards hardware.
Old 30th November 2005
  #21
Gear Head
 
moogman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
...10 pounds per plugin.... dfegad

Who else thinks this sucks bigtime ?
Actually, that strikes me as being extremely reasonable.

Heck, at the very least you're not being asked to fork over advance money based on vague promises which then never materialize. For example... be grateful you’re not dealing with the Waves WUP-ASS policy as a TDM customer. Be grateful you're not dealing with TC electronic's seemingly-chronic habit of selling a software product, only to discontinue it a short time later.

Ah, the joys...
Old 30th November 2005
  #22
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I don't see the big deal.

Everything else you buy has a 90 day return warranty with a one year parts guarantee.

After that, you buy an extended warranty.

And if there's a new upgrade, you pay for the parts.

The thing is that software takes time to write. When you buy the software, you've paid for a certain amount of time taken to write it. As long as it works as advertised when you buy it, when you want more functionality (i.e. compatibility with a new software you've purchased) then you should expect to pay for the time spent creating that new functionality.

Don't see the big deal.

Same with WUP. Music people are so damn cheap.
Old 30th November 2005
  #23
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdarling
I don't see the big deal.

Everything else you buy has a 90 day return warranty with a one year parts guarantee.

After that, you buy an extended warranty.

And if there's a new upgrade, you pay for the parts.

The thing is that software takes time to write. When you buy the software, you've paid for a certain amount of time taken to write it. As long as it works as advertised when you buy it, when you want more functionality (i.e. compatibility with a new software you've purchased) then you should expect to pay for the time spent creating that new functionality.

Don't see the big deal.

Same with WUP. Music people are so damn cheap.
i was with you til you mentioned WUP. WUP is extortion, plain and simple. pay me now, or pay me more later when i've got you over a barrel. Do what Digi and Sony do, charge a fair price for upgrades and be done with it.
Old 30th November 2005
  #24
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CaliTone's Avatar
 

I think the upgrade prices are fair. Even Waves. My Waves Gold Bundle upgrade is going to cost less per plugin than Sony's. Go figure!
Old 30th November 2005
  #25
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seems I´m in the minority
Old 1st December 2005
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdarling
Music people are so damn cheap.
this really goes without saying
Old 1st December 2005
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Audio1420's Avatar
 

Payin for the upgrade isn't that bad...
Old 5th December 2005
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay
Ten Years? What developer gives you free support and updates for ten years?
Microsoft give 10 year support for a professional products from its date of release. 5 years mainstream support and 5 years extended.

having to pay a small amount for an upgrade isnt a problem, they arnt making you pay up for a new upgrade for every version of pro tools that comes out and the price is minimal. i think they should have some kind of package upgrade if you purchaed them as a bundle or seperatly
Old 5th December 2005
  #29
Rep
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Rep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdarling
I don't see the big deal.

Everything else you buy has a 90 day return warranty with a one year parts guarantee.

After that, you buy an extended warranty.

And if there's a new upgrade, you pay for the parts.

The thing is that software takes time to write. When you buy the software, you've paid for a certain amount of time taken to write it. As long as it works as advertised when you buy it, when you want more functionality (i.e. compatibility with a new software you've purchased) then you should expect to pay for the time spent creating that new functionality.

Don't see the big deal.

Same with WUP. Music people are so damn cheap.
Dead WRONG..... Your way off on the WUP,
because there is NO new"function" when we want to just use what we have.
IF WE BUY a RACK MOUNT OR outgear effect, we can use it ALL WE WANT, WITH ANY SYSTEM,
USE it for a YEAR or use that said effect box FOR 25 YEARS.....
If we want to upgrade to the "NEW effect box" we pay for it ..... IF WE WANT THE NEW ONE...
IF WE DON'T WANT TO GET THE "NEW ONE" and are happy with what we HAVE,
we should be able to keep it just like it is. as long as we want that exact one.
IF upgraded for Delay or faster attack ect... fine we can pay for the Upgrade,

Think about it....It is NOT ABOUT all of us BEING CHEAP,
......I IS ABOUT US NOT BEING STUPID with our hard earned money.
stike
Old 5th December 2005
  #30
Rep
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Rep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juicemaster1500
this really goes without saying
What we are doing is keeping our Money for Much more expensive Outboard rack analog gear.....
We are dumping childish Plugs for real gear.... Get a CLUE... fuuck
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