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Michael Brauer's PT Template? Dynamics Plugins
Old 26th November 2009
  #1
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Michael Brauer's PT Template?

Has anyone managed to make a Pro Tools template of Michael Brauer's Brauerize compression thing? Successfully?
Old 26th November 2009
  #2
it's not really hard.

set up (say) 4 stereo auxes. Buss them all to a 5th aux - and treat this one as your final "mix buss" (you could just route them straight to a stereo output, but that would lose you the ability to bounce to disk).

put a different compressor on each one (and leave one uncompressed).

if you're on LE, you need to be aware that any latency between the aux channels will cause problems, so check delays, and compensate using timeadjuster/mellomuse if necessary.

using the ctrl modifier, you can send channels to multiple destinations, so you can parallel compress to your hearts content as if you had a routing matrix.

again, if you're on LE don't mix sends and outputs - ie if a channel is routed from it's output to one compressor, using an aux send to output it to another compressor will cause phase problems.

that's about it, isn't it?
Old 26th November 2009
  #3
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This technique is credited to MB?

-Ben B
Old 26th November 2009
  #4
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never heard of his technique, what's the goal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
using the ctrl modifier, you can send channels to multiple destinations
HD only
(unless they added this to PT8 LE)
Old 26th November 2009
  #5
Gear Head
 

You've always been available route multiple outputs in LE too.

Chad
Old 26th November 2009
  #6
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This is just parallel processing. I have been running multiple parallel busses, and then summing them in a separate, "sum" bus forever. I didn't realize this was a technique that was credited to a specific person.

-Ben B
Old 26th November 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
it isn't
Old 26th November 2009
  #8
As I understood from M.Brauer's posts, he mainly aims at using the tone/color of compressors rather then compression itself.

I don't know how that very same principle can work in digital except it's just considered as parallel compression without the color of the real gear
Old 27th November 2009
  #9
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i think its called the "more is more" process.
been around for a long time.

we used to take a aphex aural exciter at 100% and mix it back into our master to make it "crispy" to combat tape roundness........ boy have times & trends changed...heh
Old 27th November 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
it isn't
What aspect of Psycho Monkey's post "isn't" just parallel processing?

-Ben B
Old 27th November 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B View Post
I didn't realize this was a technique that was credited to a specific person.
-Ben B
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
it isn't
I reckon that's what he meant.

R.
Old 27th November 2009
  #12
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Oh, I see. The posts were non-sequential. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

-Ben B
Old 27th November 2009
  #13
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You really have to read up on MB's multi-buss mixing technique to get an understanding of what it's all about. Yes it involves parallel compression to a certain degree, but it's much more involved than that.

I've gone through his buss alignment procedures in setting up his A, B, C busses with URS Channel Strip Pro. I've approximated his settings and EQ and Compressor choices with the available models. Of course, I really couldn't say they match the hardware equivalents closely without actually trying to copy the actual hardware. Still my experimenting seems to be yielding pretty good results and I've pretty much stopped using any compression on the master buss.

One thing I will say is that for this to work properly you need to be working with lower more analog type levels otherwise the compressors will be compressing quite a bit. My understanding of MB's explanation is that only the Drum/Bass buss will be working much at all. I really don't see the other busses compressing much. It seems to be more about the sound of the buss chain than actual clamp down compressing.
Old 27th November 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny M View Post
You really have to read up on MB's multi-buss mixing technique to get an understanding of what it's all about. Yes it involves parallel compression to a certain degree, but it's much more involved than that.

I've gone through his buss alignment procedures in setting up his A, B, C busses with URS Channel Strip Pro. I've approximated his settings and EQ and Compressor choices with the available models. Of course, I really couldn't say they match the hardware equivalents closely without actually trying to copy the actual hardware. Still my experimenting seems to be yielding pretty good results and I've pretty much stopped using any compression on the master buss.

One thing I will say is that for this to work properly you need to be working with lower more analog type levels otherwise the compressors will be compressing quite a bit. My understanding of MB's explanation is that only the Drum/Bass buss will be working much at all. I really don't see the other busses compressing much. It seems to be more about the sound of the buss chain than actual clamp down compressing.
Are you doint it in PT HD? and don't you feel a bit of Latency Issues?
Are you sending the tracks using maily the Outs to the Busses?
Or Are you using sends??
are you sending tracks to multiples busses as well?

Thanks!
Old 27th November 2009
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B View Post
This is just parallel processing. I have been running multiple parallel busses, and then summing them in a separate, "sum" bus forever. I didn't realize this was a technique that was credited to a specific person.

-Ben B
In a way, it's a bit more specific than that, but again in another way it's not, and in that other way especially, no one is credited.
Old 27th November 2009
  #16
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from what ive understood from reading mb's web site about the technique, is that it is based on WHAT he is sending to the busses, not just the busses. its based on frequency material so one bus is lows, one mid, one high, one no comp, etc. not just parallel comp on the drum bus, gtr bus, etc., which is what i think is the more typical way to parallel compress
Old 27th November 2009
  #17
Gear Nut
 

I´m also very confused about this topic.

Michael writes that he does not compress alot ??? what is not alot for him ??

When hearing SPIES with Coldplay it sound VERY compressed - maybe it´s the Mastering or mayby not. ??

Again - it´s strange that it sounds compressed but should not be... HOW??

J.
Old 27th November 2009
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

MB's reputation for blending myriad compressors in parallel

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Controllers View Post
Has anyone managed to make a Pro Tools template of Michael Brauer's Brauerize compression thing? Successfully?
That's from SoS 9/2009 - Classic Compressors Article



Parallel Compression Explained

Michael Brauer with a mass of outboard. Brauer has developed a reputation for blending myriad compressors in parallel to shape the sound of vocals and other instruments.

I’ve mentioned the idea of parallel compression at a number of points in the main article without going into much detail about it, so in case you’re not familiar with this particular processing configuration, let me expand a little. The basic concept is to mix both compressed and uncompressed versions of the same signal, thereby gaining some advantages over normal insert-style processing when using characterful vintage dynamics devices. In a parallel setup, even if you hammer the compression into the end-stops, you can still keep the mixed sound fairly natural-sounding, simply by keeping the overall level of the compressed stream low relative to that of the uncompressed stream. This means that you can overdrive a vintage compressor to emphasise tonal and distortion artifacts without nearly as much danger of ending up with a lifeless mixed sound.
This technique is probably most often associated with drum tracks, because transients can be the first thing to suffer from overzealous insert-style compression, but that doesn’t mean that it has no application for other instruments. For example, Tony Maserati, Justin Niebank, and Thom Panunzio have all talked about using the technique for vocals, while Rich Costey mentions using it for bass. In the latter case, the tendency of many analogue compressors to dull the tone with increasing gain reduction has led the technique to have something of a reputation for emphasising low-end warmth. The most virtuoso proponent of parallel compression, though, has got to be Michael Brauer, who not only runs a number of parallel compressors from auxiliary sends, but also mults his lead vocals through multiple different compressors, and also compresses complete groups of instruments via a four-way stereo output-bus system on their way to the main outputs of the mixing console!
Old 27th November 2009
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny M View Post
You really have to read up on MB's multi-buss mixing technique to get an understanding of what it's all about. Yes it involves parallel compression to a certain degree, but it's much more involved than that.

I've gone through his buss alignment procedures in setting up his A, B, C busses with URS Channel Strip Pro. I've approximated his settings and EQ and Compressor choices with the available models. Of course, I really couldn't say they match the hardware equivalents closely without actually trying to copy the actual hardware. Still my experimenting seems to be yielding pretty good results and I've pretty much stopped using any compression on the master buss.

One thing I will say is that for this to work properly you need to be working with lower more analog type levels otherwise the compressors will be compressing quite a bit. My understanding of MB's explanation is that only the Drum/Bass buss will be working much at all. I really don't see the other busses compressing much. It seems to be more about the sound of the buss chain than actual clamp down compressing.

Do you have a reference or link you could post? I'm very curious to see how it's different! OTOH, if it's just the fact that he's using multiple parallel signal paths, each with different compression characteristics which are then summed post-processing, that doesn't strike me as anything different than what I will often do. I assume there must be more to the technique being discussed than that.

Not trying to be difficult, but would like to find out what his technique is all about!

-Ben B
Old 27th November 2009
  #20
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I just found this: Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Michael Brauer
Old 27th November 2009
  #21
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It appears that he is using multiple parallel compression paths on groups of instruments that work together, such as rhythm section instruments, and instruments that drive the "center" of his mix, etc.

-Ben B
Old 27th November 2009
  #22
Deleted bd1be4f
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There's a lot of confusion flying around here. Read the Tape Op article as well as the Q&A on Michael's web site, it explains everything you need to know about how the multi-buss setup works..

Michael Brauer on Compression - TapeOp Magazine

Q&A
Old 27th November 2009
  #23
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Sorry to burst your bubble but:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/1131465-post16.html

Good luck doing it in Pro Tools. LE? Worse, forget about it.
Old 27th November 2009
  #24
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Should be fine doing this in LE. Just try to use comps with no latency eg Mcdsp or time adjust/melomuse. Not ideal maybe but perfectly possible, especially if you create and save a template that works for you.

I would suggest there is no simple answer and that personal preference will come into it in a big way. Find comps that suit the intended material and frequencies, setting them to be characterful and add harmonic content without actually compressing too much.
Old 27th November 2009
  #25
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you guys are all missing the crucial 5 mono compressor buses, he has some good info about it on his website.
Old 27th November 2009
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empora View Post
Should be fine doing this in LE. Just try to use comps with no latency eg Mcdsp or time adjust/melomuse. Not ideal maybe but perfectly possible, especially if you create and save a template that works for you.

I would suggest there is no simple answer and that personal preference will come into it in a big way. Find comps that suit the intended material and frequencies, setting them to be characterful and add harmonic content without actually compressing too much.
I guess you would know better than... Michael Brauer... muhahaha!

If MB himself says you can't do his multibus setup in PTHD and it only works on a console, you really think you can in LE??? "Should be just fine" Are you guessing?

You might be able to compensate for the plugin latency but you can't for the routing and sends.

Old 27th November 2009
  #27
Deleted bd1be4f
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Here's the audio from MB's AES 2007 seminar where his assistant Will talks about how the MBC process is in fact possible ITB:

http://www.mbrauer.com/aes/22WillsITBExplanation.mp3
Old 28th November 2009
  #28
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Ah nice- I stand corrected!

OK, so every time I have tried this in PTHD there have been subtle problems... ADC hasn't been perfect when it comes to routing... wonder what they found out that caused the change of heart from the MB post I quoted to the AES seminar..?
Old 29th November 2009
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B View Post
This is just parallel processing. I have been running multiple parallel busses, and then summing them in a separate, "sum" bus forever. I didn't realize this was a technique that was credited to a specific person.

-Ben B
look up parallel processing.1- i'm not running something compressed and bringing it up with something not compressed. 2- the 4 busses is just the starting point. if it was that alone there would be no problem. i'm using several more send return compressors that are part of the technique. it's a combination of several styles that come together as one. the reason why people on this forum credit it to me is because I did an interview many years ago describing how I get the sound on the records that i've done using a combination of ideas. and it's not the idea of using multiple stereo buses,it's what the concept is behind the tool.

michael brauer
Old 29th November 2009
  #30
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B View Post
It appears that he is using multiple parallel compression paths on groups of instruments that work together, such as rhythm section instruments, and instruments that drive the "center" of his mix, etc.

-Ben B
hmmm. and you got this from reading...? It's a bit more complicated than that. it's base all on mixing in post compression. you are trying to describe something that i do as if it's void of music. again. look up parallel compression. sending two or four different busses to sub stereos doesn't make it parallel, if it did, i'd tell you it did.

michael
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