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All RME Fireface 800 are defective Audio Interfaces
Old 21st November 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 

All RME Fireface 800 are defective

Can you prove that statement to be false?
I haven't succeeded yet...

Here's the challenge:

[1] Record a simple fixed or frequency-sweeped tone through the FF800 ADAT inputs for 10 minutes. I use Digicheck to record...

[2] Analyze the resulting files for clicks. I use Wavelab...

If your Fireface 800 can do this without any clicks in the files, you will have proved that "All RME Fireface 800 are defective" is a false statement. Congratulations!

Here is one of many videos showing how I've run my tests:
YouTube - test003

Good luck!
Old 21st November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

What's your computer setup? That can affect the performance of an interface...
Old 21st November 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
MonoBrow's Avatar
 

Hmmm
Old 21st November 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Kyle S's Avatar
 

never have any click problems here and have recorded for hours.

when i did i would just bump up the buffer but since the monitor section is all realtime i can use a huge buffer. so thats gives me plenty of headroom.
Old 21st November 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

drivers? adat cables? BNC cables?.... Something is surely wrong with your setup/. test all the variables.

my FF800 hasn't so much as hicuped once n 3 years.

My Firewire sockets did need to be re-soldered though. My tech laughed when he saw how ****-tily they were attached in the first place
Old 21st November 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

not my fave for sound,but not horrible by any stretch and maybe the most rock solid piece of computer gear i've used.nada an iota of trouble and i've used them on and off for over 3 years.
Old 21st November 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 

done tons of live recording with a ff800 using the adat in - over 100 hours i would think - never had a single problem. that was the most reliable, best thought out box out of all the digital gear I've owned - great drivers and the "total mix" application is awesome.
Old 21st November 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I'd wait a few minutes and count to 100 before writing a strong negative statement like that, especially if it's about a highly respected and professional brand like RME.
If you have a problem, please talk to them. I'm sure you'll get help.
Old 21st November 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Well something's defective and more than likely it ain't the FW800-- more like user error or a wordclock problem or cable or just that you're not meant to use RME...?
Old 21st November 2009
  #10
Gear Nut
 

I've tested 4 Fireface 800 units with the same setup and I get 4 different result sets every time.

Only 1 unit had a click-free ADAT input when I ran the test.

Synthax replaced the mainboard and digital connectors of my unit when I sent it in for repair. They claimed to have tested it and found it to be non-defective.

When it came back, the problem was still there.

I asked them to describe how they tested it and with what equipment so I could check for myself if it was my setup. They never answered.

I made numerous YouTube tests so they could see how it was set up and then tell me what i was doing wrong. They couldn't see a problem with my setup.

Right now, they are asking me to install a differently-designed digital connector card, which they SAW A NEED TO DESIGN, to address "extreme cases of jitter". From RME's MC himself:

Quote:
"It seems that this is an extreme case of exactly what I mentioned in the forum. For such cases we exchange the ADAT optical ins (Toslink receivers) with a different version. This special version is jitter-free at ADAT, but supports SPDIF only up to 128 kHz."
At this point, I just want confirmation that non-defective units exist, because I haven't been lucky enough to meet one yet.

Before telling me I'm doing something wrong, run the test yourself and let me know what happens.

Anyway, I've been pushed to this point not because I want to say bad things about RME (I purchased their gear for a reason and I still don't see other interesting alternatives), but because I've had an extremely frustrating experience in getting my FF800 to work as expected and I'm getting no satisfactory explananations about why I'm seeing these errors on every Fireface 800 that I've tested.
Old 21st November 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 

understand your frustration. sometimes the units are picky with cabling. kinda sucks for you cause TOTALMIX is a god send. I love it and wouldn't trade it.

I run an
FF800
Digimax LT
Tango 24
AX 207D

all clocked together digital and have had up to 23 tracks coming in and out at a time and it is pretty much solid.

There was one time that the adat connection was iffy for 2-3 days, then the fuse blew in the digimax LT. When I replaced the fuse all my problems were solved. That was a strange case.
Old 21st November 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Firechild's Avatar
@stdenisg
Have you tried your "test" with another audio interface or FF800 on a Mac?
It sounds not like a hardware problem, more like a windows driver problem.
Use a mac and all things will be fine.
I bet there is nothing wrong with the FF800, It is one of the most reliable interfaces on the planet, dude.
Old 21st November 2009
  #13
Gear Nut
 

When I test, I'm feeding the FF800 ADAT1 and ADAT2 inputs, the rear analog 1-8 inputs, and the front analog 9-10 inputs the same source signal.

Why is it that ALL analog inputs are ALWAYS clean, and all ADAT inputs are always clicking?

If it was a computer driver issue, any Firewire connection glitch would corrupt all channels, not just pick and choose the ADAT inputs exclusively.

That's my theory, anyway...

For the record, I've never had the pleasure of testing on a Mac, so maybe something would be different. But logic tells me it's not a Firewire issue... and therefore the underlying computing platform is irrelevant.
Old 21st November 2009
  #14
Gear Nut
 

@passenger

Totally agree about TOTALMIX. That's one of the greatest features that I'm not finding in competing products.

I'm an RME fan, despite this thread, which is why I'm so disappointed that I'm having such a hard time with this issue.
Old 21st November 2009
  #15
Deleted User
Guest
Whats clocking the RME??

Cheap Optical cables will do that BTW

What FW card are you using?

Do you have the latest firmware installed?

Buffer setting?

RAM amount?

Etc
Old 21st November 2009
  #16
Gear Nut
 

@shanabit

I've tried:
FF800 as master / OctamicD slave : with wordclock from FF800 to OctamicD
FF800 as slave / OctamicD master: FF800 slaved from either ADAT1/ADAT2

No difference.
Never tried external clock. If that is what it takes, then RME should state that officially, otherwise, either of the above configs should work.

As far as cables go, I've tried Hosa 'cheap' and 'premium'. No difference.

What cables do you recommend? I'm willing to give it a shot.

As far as settings go, I have detailed information for the 13 tests posted on YouTube, (more than anyone will ever bother reading)... right here:
http://zuyotani.com/rme-glitch/test0XX/index.html, where XX = {'01', '02', ...'13' }

For example, here is the log for test003:
test003

Happy reading
Old 21st November 2009
  #17
Deleted User
Guest
FW card ??
Old 21st November 2009
  #18
Gear Nut
 

It's in the link I gave you...

ADS Tech: API-311 PYRO PCI 64 (TI Firewire Chipset)
Old 21st November 2009
  #19
Deleted User
Guest
Buffer setting ??? Can you just put all the info on one post as far as your PC so the tennis match can stop?

What happens if you dont use the analog inputs at the same time and just the ADAT ports with things clocked up?

All things being equal. Your PC is the ONLY common denominator since youve changed cables and tried diff units. Your FW card could have issues you know

Anyone you know with a PC handy you could setup to see what happens?
Old 21st November 2009
  #20
Gear Addict
 
Stepwise Sound's Avatar
 

Hi.

Quote:
All RME Fireface 800 are defective
Quote:
Can you prove that statement to be false?
Quote:
1 unit had a click-free ADAT input when I ran the test.
So they aren't all defective are they? Sorry couldn't resist.

Okay for real now.

1) Is DDS active on your RME?
2) Can you provide more info about your setup?
3) Have you tried other non RME devices to see if they have a similar problem?
4) Finally, and I am sorry to open up this can of worms again, but I am convinced that for most purposes studios are better served using analog transmission rather than digital. A potential for clocking issues, clicks, jitter, data loss etc... exists in ADAT, SPIDF. If I am right, I think this says more about the standard and difficulties in real world implementation than RME itself or the FF800.

Let's take a step back and look at the whole situation.
Old 21st November 2009
  #21
Gear Nut
 

@shanabit

Thanks for the offer to help... but all the information you are requesting is in the link I posted earlier.

I've tried posting the contents of that page here but I'll be formatting for an hour to get it to look right... so no. Click on the link and read the page if you want configuration information.

As far as just ADAT, no analog. Tried. No difference.
Old 21st November 2009
  #22
Gear Nut
 

@stepwise sound
If by "non-defective" you mean: "1 out of 2 working ADAT inputs", then yeah, I guess it was "non-defective".

As far as posting detailed information goes:

All 13 tests that appear on YouTube had different configurations, settings, etc. I created a test log page to detail all of that information. The links to those logs are posted previously in this thread.

Re: DDS: most of the time it is OFF. I have tested with it ON. No difference.
Re: non-RME devices: no other interfaces other than FF800 from RME have been tested
Re: analog vs. digital: you may be right.
But I purchased a device based on the promise by the manufacturer that it would perform certain functions within certain specs, i.e., ADAT input.

To date, that performance has yet to be seen in my experience.

Others appear to have had more success. Great for them. But no one has been able to tell me why I am having these issues...
Old 21st November 2009
  #23
Gear Addict
 
Stepwise Sound's Avatar
 

hey,

Read thru your config.

Sorry but why are you using a $7 Hosa digital cable for adat?

If you are going all out and doing all these tests and everything why not use some better cables...

Just saying...
Old 21st November 2009
  #24
Gear Addict
 
Stepwise Sound's Avatar
 

Quote:
DDS: most of the time it is OFF. I have tested with it ON. No difference.
In my setup I NEED to have DDS on or it clicks! Makes a huge difference in my setup... YMMV
Old 21st November 2009
  #25
Gear Nut
 

@stepwisesound

I have no problem getting better cables if that's what it takes.

Which ones do you recommend?
Old 21st November 2009
  #26
Gear Addict
 
Stepwise Sound's Avatar
 

Ha not sure I am sure there are million threads tho --

good luck I know how frustrating this can be.
Old 21st November 2009
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdenisg View Post
Why is it that ALL analog inputs are ALWAYS clean, and all ADAT inputs are always clicking?
I watched your video and found it dizzying, given what I know about troubleshooting a problem. Even though my head was spinning from the speed, I noticed you wrapped up the ADAT Light Pipe Cables in the pile like a mic cable.

You may have bent the light pipe cable, and it is not working correctly.

I would advise trying other cables; [if you have not already] and Then;

Quote:
Originally Posted by passenger
test all the variables.
Old 21st November 2009
  #28
Gear Nut
 

@rocmixwell
Thanks for taking the time to look...
Good catch for the optical cables.

I thought of that, and there is a later test where the cables aren't coiled at all, just connected with a single bend.

No difference.

I have also had success with the same cables using a rented FF800 this past Sunday. It had 1 good ADAT input and the results were click-free using those same cables.
Old 21st November 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 
fossaree's Avatar
Have you already reported it on RME's forum ?
Old 21st November 2009
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Yes.

Once upon a time, I thought it was my OctamicD:
RME User Forum / Clicks on ADAT inputs of Fireface 800 with OctamicD

Then new tests began pointing to the Fireface, but I couldn't be sure.

This summer, I gave Synthax both devices to sort it out and resolve it once and for all.
They failed, so I then asked the RME community for advice:
RME User Forum / Fireface 800 ADAT input clicks: are you affected?

That's when MC jumped in and proposed a modified digital riser card for "special" cases.

And now I am here.
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