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Relab LX480 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 16th July 2010
  #1831
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The people who prefer "A" - how much actual mixing experience do you have? Because, to me it's blatantly obvious the hardware in these examples would be much more useful. I'm glad there's a version with a new algorithm coming.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1832
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rhythminmind's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyoteous View Post
Also, the noise seems to be constant and doesn't decrease as the mix is shifted to "dry."
I noticed that as well with the digital mode. That is wrong, but it should be the case with the analog mode. Your always passing thru a ad/da stage even when set to dry.
I rarely use verb as inserts, almost always as sends & rarely need anything other then 100% wet.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traumerei1838 View Post
Wrapped? I thought wrapped plug-ins didn't report latency???
I havent experienced wrapped plugins not reporting latency per se.
..... but I pinged the LX480 with Mellowmuse ATA to be sure and still got 0 samples.

nice.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1834
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Darn, was really hoping B would be the plug-in.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ermz View Post
Darn, was really hoping B would be the plug-in.
gatta say I share that sentiment.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
The people who prefer "A" - how much actual mixing experience do you have? Because, to me it's blatantly obvious the hardware in these examples would be much more useful. I'm glad there's a version with a new algorithm coming.
I was quite easily able to identify the Hardware 480 in both cases,
But....
I have mixed with one a few times up at Heliport.
I never got to listen to the samples on my monitors, just my good computer speakers but even there the first 10 seconds of listening was all I needed.
Something about the Hardware clips just sounded like the real 480.

Remember there is a whole generation of Engineers coming thru that have only spent there time mixing ITB using software plugins etc.
Nothing wrong with that - just a fact.
Me personally I am still a believer in Analog processing where possible.
However this LX480 Plugin will be very cool and definately worth having.

I think software developers have finally beaten the 'software reverbs just don't cut it' argument.
The Lexi bundle and now this Relab 480 have the mojo IMHO.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1837
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
The people who prefer "A" - how much actual mixing experience do you have? Because, to me it's blatantly obvious the hardware in these examples would be much more useful. I'm glad there's a version with a new algorithm coming.
I never had a real 480l but have/had several hardware Lexicons (PCM90, PCM80 and Nuverbs) and I can say already from working with the LX480 plugs that it's freaking great when actually mixing and I prefer it. I also preferred the Lexicon PCM plugs over my hardware. it's a great time for reverb plugins for sure. I'd love a real 480l too but just compare the price differential. $5k vs $200/$500. The choice is clear. All depends on what you do with it. I've heard mixes inside the box the blew away mixes from hardware when put in capable hands.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
I never had a real 480l but have/had several hardware Lexicons (PCM90, PCM80 and Nuverbs) and I can say already from working with the LX480 plugs that it's freaking great when actually mixing and I prefer it. I also preferred the Lexicon PCM plugs over my hardware. it's a great time for reverb plugins for sure. I'd love a real 480l too but just compare the price differential. $5k vs $200/$500. The choice is clear. All depends on what you do with it. I've heard mixes inside the box the blew away mixes from hardware when put in capable hands.
I couldn't find much use for the Lexicon plugins, the reverb just wouldn't fit into the mix properly IMO. Never really liked the PCM90 much either, BTW.

This is not about the price difference, I want this plugin to nail the 480L sound because I think it works so well. A real 480L is an almost 25 years old (worst case) complex piece of highly customary hardware, so a plugin would be perfect. But it's got to really do the same thing. Or better, but I don't think that's the case (yet?).

Once the 480L plugin is done the 224, RMX16, EMT250, Eventide are waiting... ;-)
Old 17th July 2010
  #1839
pro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythminmind View Post
480L or LX 480
I predict many will be pleased.
sweet!
Old 17th July 2010
  #1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
Once the 480L plugin is done the 224, RMX16, EMT250, Eventide are waiting... ;-)
Old 17th July 2010
  #1841
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Ermz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
Remember there is a whole generation of Engineers coming thru that have only spent there time mixing ITB using software plugins etc.
Well that more or less describes me, as I've started in the last 6 years. Though in recent times I've had a fair amount of experience with hardware.

In this case though, even though I've never even seen a 480L in person, nor used a hardware reverb in a mix, the better sounding of the clips was immediately evident. I was really really surprised so many people preferred A.

Regardless, I hope the parameter tweaks that are left to do will bring it sounding closer to the original, which to me sounded better on these clips, even as a layman.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ermz View Post
Well that more or less describes me, as I've started in the last 6 years. Though in recent times I've had a fair amount of experience with hardware.

In this case though, even though I've never even seen a 480L in person, nor used a hardware reverb in a mix, the better sounding of the clips was immediately evident. I was really really surprised so many people preferred A.

Regardless, I hope the parameter tweaks that are left to do will bring it sounding closer to the original, which to me sounded better on these clips, even as a layman.


No need to be surprised. It's subjective and folly to think your own preference is dogma. Some people prefer TC verbs to Lexicon, or real plates, or delays, or no reverb at all. Good mixes have been made using all these; hell, even with plugins.

Personally I like A because I felt it sounded like drums in a room, very solid. B sounded more like artificial reverb that you could hear bouncing around separately from the source which incidentally is the same problem I always had with plugin reverb. A reacts more like a impulse response (convolution reverb) of a real space but with the extra benefit of some modulation liveliness. With B I would find myself asking "What reverb unit is that?" WIth A I would think "That's a nice sounding room man!"
Old 17th July 2010
  #1843
pro
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different strokes, for different folks...

Just because you like one sound over another does not qualify you for anything or another from anything. However, to have a preference and post it before the results does count for something. Be it small...

Carry on...
Old 17th July 2010
  #1844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
No need to be surprised. It's subjective and folly to think your own preference is dogma. Some people prefer TC verbs to Lexicon, or real plates, or delays, or no reverb at all.

Personally I like A because I felt it sounded like drums in a room, very solid. B sounded more like artificial reverb that you could here bouncing around separately from the source which incidentally is the same problem I always had with plugin reverb. A reacts more like a impulse response (convolution reverb) of a real space but with the extra benefit of some modulation liveliness. With B I would find myself asking "What reverb unit is that?" WIth A I would think "That's a nice sounding room man!"
werd!

and I liked A because B sounded like some old piece of garbage from the eighties...
Old 17th July 2010
  #1845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pro View Post
werd!

and I liked A because B sounded like some old piece of garbage from the eighties...
LOL heh

Trebor
Old 17th July 2010
  #1846
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythminmind View Post
I rarely use verb as inserts, almost always as sends & rarely need anything other then 100% wet.
Yeah, this is probably a case to avoid inline wet/dry balance. I do this on busses sometimes when I'm building a mix, and want the same amount of a process on all the elements. It would be nice to have a "clean" dry option.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1847
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Re: tests from Rhythminmind.

No real experience on the 480L unit, just was looking for that Lexicon 'magic' sparkle, whatever. The other thing I based my choice on is how well the reverb blended in with the sound.

I voted 'B' for HW for the first set of tests but then thought the hardware was 'A' in the second batch.
I understand the second test was done with the updated LX480 algorythm, do you also feel that it was indeed harder to distinguish between the two?

Thanks for the samples anyway, Rhythminmind, I thought it was quite useful.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1848
Deleted User
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Hardware or Plugin?

For me there is advantage to go in digital than analog. The problem with analog is linearity. Any electronic circuit makes linearity problems even one cable can change the sound. So digital is completely linear. Advantage is obvious.

Relab LX480 is advantage in terms of dynamic and linearity against the 480L hardware. Lexicon 480L will sound different if you connect it with some decent cable or when you connect it with Mogami Gold Studio Quad Neglex. That is the very well known fact. Not to mention when you connect it on Neve console or some TAC older console..or ...etc.
Old 17th July 2010
  #1849
So I downloaded the 480L manual from lexicon's site and copied the SM RHall and Stage preset. It's nice to have this plug! Makes me very happy!
Old 17th July 2010
  #1850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
Lexicon 480L will sound different if you connect it with some decent cable or when you connect it with Mogami Gold Studio Quad Neglex. That is the very well known fact.
Thanks for injecting some bull**** into this thread...
Old 17th July 2010
  #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
Thanks for injecting some bull**** into this thread...
You don't know for this?

That is why Mogami cable is the standard for Pro Studios around the world.
Mogami cable will brought Hi Freq to the right place...
Old 17th July 2010
  #1852
Lives for gear
 

Plenty of people reject the idea that high-end cables make a big difference.
You can do an Internet search and find plenty of comments about the
"myth" of high-quality audio cables - here's one link:

Transparent Audio Cables

Here's another:

Dispelling audio myths, the cable lie - Audio Video Revolution Forum

Here's another (scroll down to "1)MYTH"):
Top Five Audiophile Myths

The truth is that, at best, more expensive cables might have more robust
connectors - that is, they were soldered better and are more solidly
constructed. That would have nothing to do with whether the audio
or instrument cable "improves" the sound. It doesn't. It just means you
may be less likely to have a jack crap out on you at a bad time.
Old 18th July 2010
  #1853
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
So I downloaded the 480L manual from lexicon's site and copied the SM RHall and Stage preset. It's nice to have this plug! Makes me very happy!
Hey, that was a great idea. I copied you and downloaded the original manual as well- I think it will really help me get some great presets as a starting point and also just help with overall programming concepts!
Thanks!
Old 18th July 2010
  #1854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
I couldn't find much use for the Lexicon plugins, the reverb just wouldn't fit into the mix properly IMO. Never really liked the PCM90 much either, BTW.

This is not about the price difference, I want this plugin to nail the 480L sound because I think it works so well. A real 480L is an almost 25 years old (worst case) complex piece of highly customary hardware, so a plugin would be perfect. But it's got to really do the same thing. Or better, but I don't think that's the case (yet?).

Once the 480L plugin is done the 224, RMX16, EMT250, Eventide are waiting... ;-)
You meant to say PCM70. The 250 has already been done twice.

EMpTy 250 reverb
Empty Room Systems - Home of the EMpTy 250 reverb

UAD EMT 250
YouTube - EMT 250 Classic Electronic Reverberator Powered Plug-In Trailer
Old 18th July 2010
  #1855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electro View Post
You meant to say PCM70. The 250 has already been done twice.

EMpTy 250 reverb
Empty Room Systems - Home of the EMpTy 250 reverb

UAD EMT 250
YouTube - EMT 250 Classic Electronic Reverberator Powered Plug-In Trailer
I know, but at least in the native realm the sound hasn't been nailed.
Old 18th July 2010
  #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
I know, but at least in the native realm the sound hasn't been nailed.
What is the EMpTy lacking in terms of 250 sound? He is planning a version 2.0.

www.effectprocessor.com • View topic - Version 2.0 features
Old 18th July 2010
  #1857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electro View Post
What is the EMpTy lacking in terms of 250 sound? He is planning a version 2.0.

www.effectprocessor.com • View topic - Version 2.0 features
When I tried it I thought it sounded kinda metallic and not all that close to the real thing (or rather recordings of it, since I haven't got one). The UAD version was closer.
Old 18th July 2010
  #1858
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okay. i've done enough listening tests. the Relab is great. i've gone through the sets over and over, set to random, and sometimes i pick B, sometimes A.
the point being I cannot WAIT till the RMX comes out cause that is my favorite reverb. it's so warm it makes me pee my pants. i've had nothing come close to that on lead vocals. and if one guy can do it, it's Martin.
(no pressure)
Old 18th July 2010
  #1859
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rhythminmind's Avatar
 

"Reverb so good you will piss yourself."
Thats a key marking term if I've ever heard one. thumbsup
Old 18th July 2010
  #1860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythminmind View Post
"Reverb so good you will piss yourself."
Thats a key marking term if I've ever heard one. thumbsup
"your-in" good form today rythminmind heh

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