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Relab LX480 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 21st May 2010
  #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebor Flow View Post
but after reading Warps comments on his blog,
T
Url?
Old 21st May 2010
  #1352
Old 21st May 2010
  #1353
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebor Flow View Post
Darn it. I've been beaten by a time constraint. I have to start mixing an album on Monday, I was trying to buy time to hold out for this reverb, but after reading Warps comments on his blog, I can see it is going to be quite a few more weeks till this plugin is released :-(

Martin is clearly a perfectionist as evidenced by the shear quality of the demo algo, he is definately to be comended for waiting to get this reverb spot on.

I will definiately be buying this plugin later on in the year - unless of course UAD release the same thing, but better, but to be honest I really can't see that happening and also I'd rather have this reverb native on an ilok.

Serves me right for checking into this forum too often, now I feel like a kid that didn't get what he wanted for Xmas .... I hate being made to wait heh (stamping foot and having a tantrum!)

T
I'm guessing the UAD would be a 224. Not as interesting to me personally. Now that I'm used to this kind of echo density (IE the PCM bundle and the HD algo of Warp's plug) I'm not interested in the 224 anymore.

My estimate is at least 2 more months until he releases this plug. If he just got digi development status, that'll take a while. Personally Warp, I think you could release the AU, VST and release the RTAS in a future update, and make some $ to fund your developments.
Old 21st May 2010
  #1354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Been today comparing Aether vs 480LX vs Lex PCM. In case of LX480 I've compared it only against Random Hall algo within Lex bundle which should be a modern substitute I suppose. All are great and will definitely buy LX480 when releasd, but if I had to choose to have only one, I'd choose Lex PCM over the other two without thinking twice. I just prefer its sound when I want to achieve more realistic spacea, it also sounds a little more natural and smoother.

Aether is another great reverb and is retty unique. Very flexible and gorgeous sounding. But without oversampling it simply cannot be compared next to Lex. With 2x oversampling its sound improves by a large margin, but with oversampling engaged it brutally rapes the CPU, so it is not very usable for huge native ITB mixes...and sadly that's the only reason why I haven't decieded to buy it.
damn... but pricewise... i mean.. its like a whole grand plus more less than the pcm!!
and if it sounds at least half as good... and from what i heard on the samples, sounds more than 1/2 as good.. or aether is a kick ass product or lexicon sucks at their marketing. aka = making it that more expensive thus to create the impression that its that much better... when u compare it to a $250 dollar product and it sounds similar (not same) then it reminds me of the telefunken vs aphex fiasco. which lead the company to put out another version of thier mic.
so the pcm might sound good but at $1600 or so more than the close competition i dunnooo..
u gotta be fukin kidding me!! a $250 reverb that sounds like (read similar not the same) the $1800 !!!
sorry im just repeating myself but every-time i think of it and folks here still arguing like the $1800 is a good investment!!??
sorry to slander the product but ... its just crazy!!
but to be fair i think there should be a blind test of both reverbs to hear that thousand dollar difference. cpu wise.. if u can afford to pay $1800 bucks for a plugin u can afford a better computer.
maybe the lxp will have a better response from me (and non blinded consumers heh)

still im waiting for the this new 480 and see how it goes.
Old 21st May 2010
  #1355
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
damn... but pricewise... i mean.. its like a whole grand plus more less than the pcm!!
and if it sounds at least half as good... and from what i heard on the samples, sounds more than 1/2 as good.. or aether is a kick ass product or lexicon sucks at their marketing. aka = making it that more expensive thus to create the impression that its that much better... when u compare it to a $250 dollar product and it sounds similar (not same) then it reminds me of the telefunken vs aphex fiasco. which lead the company to put out another version of thier mic.
so the pcm might sound good but at $1600 or so more than the close competition i dunnooo..
u gotta be fukin kidding me!! a $250 reverb that sounds like (read similar not the same) the $1800 !!!
sorry im just repeating myself but every-time i think of it and folks here still arguing like the $1800 is a good investment!!??
sorry to slander the product but ... its just crazy!!
but to be fair i think there should be a blind test of both reverbs to hear that thousand dollar difference. cpu wise.. if u can afford to pay $1800 bucks for a plugin u can afford a better computer.
maybe the lxp will have a better response from me (and non blinded consumers heh)

still im waiting for the this new 480 and see how it goes.

Old 21st May 2010
  #1356
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Warp69's Avatar
 

As Animus have pointed out - it's easy to hear the difference between PCM and Aether in the reverb tail.

The PCM has a wider sound where Aether has a more center oriented sound. They're different.
Old 21st May 2010
  #1357
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
As Animus have pointed out - it's easy to hear the difference between PCM and Aether in the reverb tail.
This is a matter of opinion and open for debate. We are different, as we are not an emulation, but it is inconclusive as to how easy it is for people to hear the differences, and it is even more nebulous as to which is "better". It depends highly on the source material and the application of appropriate preset settings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
The PCM has a wider sound where Aether has a more center oriented sound.
Of course we do have a "Width" parameter that controls exactly this. In fact, we offer two: one for ERs, and one for LRs. Moreover, we offer 4 different independent stereo modes for both ERs and LRs. Finally we also offer a Cascade control which feeds one engine into the other in varying amounts. All of these things work together to synergistically offer extreme ranges in what is possible with spatialization and resulting "width".

As such, your gross generalization is a bit far from the truth IMHO...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
They're different.
Agreed, but let's not equate "different" with "better" or "worse"....

Last edited by Andrew Souter; 21st May 2010 at 10:06 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 21st May 2010
  #1358
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feck's Avatar
I have to say, maybe my ears aren't as sensitive to reverb subtleties as others are, but if I spend time tweaking parameters, I can't hear a "quality" difference in reverb tails between virtually any of the high end reverbs I have. I hear stereo width differences, and of course differences in frequency response regarding early and late reflections, but regarding "quality" and "width" they all operate on a level that is more than satisfactory to me.
Old 21st May 2010
  #1359
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
I have to say, maybe my ears aren't as sensitive to reverb subtleties as others are, but if I spend time tweaking parameters, I can't hear a "quality" difference in reverb tails between virtually any of the high end reverbs I have. I hear stereo width differences, and of course differences in frequency response regarding early and late reflections, but regarding "quality" and "width" they all operate on a level that is more than satisfactory to me.
For me it's not so much a depth or width but a smoothness to the tail.
Old 21st May 2010
  #1360
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
Agreed, but let's not equate "different" with "better" or "worse"....
True, but I don't believe Martin has done so.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1361
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Originally Posted by elambo View Post
True, but I don't believe Martin has done so.
Leave 2c alone. With his obtrusive and deluded defense in this thread we might get interesting dev. fight (i am preparing my set of popcorn)
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Old 22nd May 2010
  #1362
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 

No one is fighting. No need to save your popcorn. Better rent an action movie if that's what your after, as its not going to happen here. heh

I'm just "fact checking", and the only comments I have made have been direct responses to statements about our product. Otherwise I would not even be in this thread. Sorry if you feel it is obtrusive.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1363
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
Leave 2c alone. With his obtrusive and deluded defense in this thread we might get interesting dev. fight (i am preparing my set of popcorn)
Nah, I think he's just trying to clarify that "different" isn't better or worse -- something I agree with completely.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1364
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Let's keep this thread on track... and at least attempt to keep the discussion focused on this product.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1365
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Let's keep this thread on track... and at least attempt to keep the discussion focused on this product.

What product?


heh
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
No one is fighting. No need to save your popcorn. Better rent an action movie if that's what your after, as its not going to happen here. heh

I'm just "fact checking", and the only comments I have made have been direct responses to statements about our product. Otherwise I would not even be in this thread. Sorry if you feel it is obtrusive.
That's interesting. I've seen a lot of threads here and "there" with various comments and statements (obviously Aether is VERY good product with huge interest) about Aether yet i don't see your name or comment in any of these threads. But somehow you managed to pick and fill competitor thread saying how very relative term (pick: different, wide) is actually "fact checking". To me it seems like very obtrusive defense (while no one attacked anyone which is a fact indeed) and chance to market your stuff from your sig. It's my IMHO of course.

Agreed. I'll watch "Valhalla Rising" today
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Old 22nd May 2010
  #1367
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teacue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Let's keep this thread on track... and at least attempt to keep the discussion focused on this product.
Yes.
Please tell us the price

Best regards
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1368
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herrvlad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teacue View Post
Yes.
Please tell us the price

Best regards
+ 1
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1369
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Warp69's Avatar
 

I have absolutely no problem with Andrew contributing in this thread - why should I?

I wrote the following (amongst other things) to Andrew :

I believe in continuous improvement of my product and myself - and to do that I need feedback and discussion with many people (competitors or not). I know we're all different and therefor don't feel the same way - I have absolutely no problem with you contributing to the thread about my product - I encourage you to do so, if you want to clarify, comment directly or discuss reverb related topics. The members of GS that have tried the different products will correct any of us if we make false statements without evidence.

You're more than welcome to express your opinion about my product or the concept of emulating other product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
Agreed, but let's not equate "different" with "better" or "worse"....
I don't think any one have done that.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1370
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
That's interesting. I've seen a lot of threads here and "there" with various comments and statements (obviously Aether is VERY good product with huge interest) about Aether yet i don't see your name or comment in any of these threads. But somehow you managed to pick and fill competitor thread saying how very relative term (pick: different, wide) is actually "fact checking". To me it seems like very obtrusive defense (while no one attacked anyone which is a fact indeed) and chance to market your stuff from your sig. It's my IMHO of course.
Some quick notes:

1) 2 (?) posts (from me) in 46 pages is hardly "filling a competitor's thread."
2) the two posts I made where only to clarify things I felt misrepresented OUR product. I have made 0 comments about L480
3) I explained some of these things a few times previously to warp69 already in OUR own thread here and on KVR. For example: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...her-1-5-a.html
4) by the rules of the forum developers have to have sigs that identify who they are, so my sig it not exactly advertising--it is following the requested rules. Frankly I think it is much more open to clearly indentify who we are in our sigs. This way if for example, I say something about L480 or Martin says something about Aether, it can be understood that we are coming from certain points of view.

Anyway, out of respect for Martin's hard work on making this new product and at Tony's request let's keep the conversation in this thread on this product, and not Aether. I agree.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1371
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
3) I explained some of these things a few times previously to warp69 already in OUR own thread here and on KVR.
I have clearly missed something here - what have you explain several times? Im aware that you might have to explain it once more heh
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Old 22nd May 2010
  #1372
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Andrew Souter's Avatar
 

Let's just drop it for now... I only point out that you have "participated in" several of our product threads in the past in various forums...

I appreciate your PM. Let's leave it at that and not get into an argument... agree?
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1373
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
Let's just drop it for now... I only point out that you have "participated in" several of our product threads in the past in various forums...
A snarky 2nd sentence which completely defies the 1st, practically demanding a response from Warp and continuation of "it."

How 'bout ACTUALLY dropping it and taking this off-line if you must continue with Warp? No need to even respond to this - a non-response would in fact be the best confirmation that you agree.
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Old 22nd May 2010
  #1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
A snarky 2nd sentence which completely defies the 1st, practically demanding a response from Warp and continuation of "it."

How 'bout ACTUALLY dropping it and taking this off-line if you must continue with Warp? No need to even respond to this - a non-response would in fact be the best confirmation that you agree.
why didn't you leave it - jesus! Andrews response wasn't even snarky - but yours is - and patronising.

No need to even respond to this - a non-response would in fact be the best confirmation that you agree.
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1375
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Animus's Avatar
 

Just everyone shutup beayatches! oooops...
Old 22nd May 2010
  #1376
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Andrews response wasn't even snarky
OK pot, allow this kettle to answer:

The snark may have flown over your head, but it practically demanded yet another response from Martin. He didn't need the jab. If you agree that that sidetracked road should die then you'll understand, though, since you felt the need to jump in, you do not and you're just jumping on the pile unnecessarily. Just like me.
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Old 23rd May 2010
  #1377
Shy
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Souter View Post
Let's just drop it for now... I only point out that you have "participated in" several of our product threads in the past in various forums...
He "participated in"? Let's make it clear exactly what was his single question on a KvR thread:
Quote:
Im not quite sure what you mean by 'more dense' and 'more detailed' - care to elaborate?
(in relation to a sample of Aether compared to Lexicon PCM Native)

And his participation on the Aether thread here:
Quote:
Aether doesn't process the sound in Adobe Audition 1.5 - I know it's an old version, but Aether is the only plugin that behaves like that.

Nice GUI btw.

I had to download Reaper for the test and Im quite unfamiliar with both Reaper and Aether - but how do I create large halls?

Something like this (not exactly, but just similar) :
Then you went on to lecture about how you're all about innovation and not emulation, how parameters shouldn't be expected to be the same, how your diffusion range is huge compared to Lexicon's, a psychological analysis of the motives behind his question, another mention that Aether's possibilities are "utterly staggering", and inbetween, an advice about how to tune the Shape parameter that's actually related to the question, which is the only thing Warp replied to, with "Great - That was the information I was looking for."

That's all.
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Old 23rd May 2010
  #1378
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shy View Post
He "participated in"? Let's make it clear exactly what was his single question on a KvR thread:

(in relation to a sample of Aether compared to Lexicon PCM Native)

And his participation on the Aether thread here:

Then you went on to lecture about how you're all about innovation and not emulation, how parameters shouldn't be expected to be the same, how your diffusion range is huge compared to Lexicon's, a psychological analysis of the motives behind his question, another mention that Aether's possibilities are "utterly staggering", and inbetween, an advice about how to tune the Shape parameter that's actually related to the question, which is the only thing Warp replied to, with "Great - That was the information I was looking for."

That's all.
Get over yourselves, people. 2 reverb designers discussing things in a friendly manner. Move on.
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Old 23rd May 2010
  #1379
Shy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Get over yourselves, people. 2 reverb designers discussing things in a friendly manner. Move on.
More like one, but fine, I'll "get over myself".
Old 23rd May 2010
  #1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
OK pot, allow this kettle to answer:

The snark may have flown over your head, but it practically demanded yet another response from Martin. He didn't need the jab. If you agree that that sidetracked road should die then you'll understand, though, since you felt the need to jump in, you do not and you're just jumping on the pile unnecessarily. Just like me.
there wasnt much snark really - it wasnt that bad as far as I could tell - but yes it was totally hypocritical of me to call you out calling Andrew out. I was sadly aware of that irony and realised that probably we are all doomed to a fruitless cascade of bickering...
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