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Relab LX480 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 10th May 2010
  #1201
Gear Maniac
 

Yep, it's ace! I love it. Good work Warp.

Can't wait to hear some more algos. What others will it have?
Old 11th May 2010
  #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
I believe there is no possible way you can get closer to the 480 than this plugin.
I've A/B'd and couldn't agree more.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1203
Quote:
Originally Posted by scanner View Post
I've A/B'd and couldn't agree more.
Could you tell us more ?
I won't have time to A/B for myself before the end of the month ...

Thanks !
Old 11th May 2010
  #1204
Shy
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Also, if you could post some comparisons of both with the same settings, it would be great.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noize_organizer View Post
Could you tell us more ?
I won't have time to A/B for myself before the end of the month ...

Thanks !
Yep,

I was recording a female voc at Abbey Road St 1 (Clang ! - sorry for the name drop) on Friday.... I always use Random Hall at about 1.8 / 1.9 as I find it matches well with orch. stuff recorded in that room... this was full orchestra west end / broadway style stuff with a female vocal.

So me and a great engineer mate of mine (risking another name drop !) had a quick listen with default Random hall settings (apart from the length) on both the hardware and the plugin, level matched by ear.

We were both blown away.

Once level matched, there was nothing between them.
Flipping back and forth it was very easy to forget which was which.

Ok, so we didn't do a "proper" critical listening test, but in that real world application they were the SAME reverb.

Just hoping the plugin's released before the beta runs out, cos it's difficult to hold myself back from using it in earnest on this orch. work I'm doing.

Kudos to Relab : )
Old 11th May 2010
  #1206
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Hey Tony I've sent you 2 emails these last couple of days requesting an ilok demo for this plugin.

Could you reply please ? Yes or No will do at this point.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1207
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
Hey Tony I've sent you 2 emails these last couple of days requesting an ilok demo for this plugin.

Could you reply please ? Yes or No will do at this point.
Either your emails are being blocked to me, or mine are being blocked on your end.... Check your spam folder and let me know.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1208
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lordnielson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Either your emails are being blocked to me, or mine are being blocked on your end.... Check your spam folder and let me know.
Don't have a spam folder. I used the "Send email to TonyBelmont" feature on your Gearslutz profile.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1209
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
Don't have a spam folder. I used the "Send email to TonyBelmont" feature on your Gearslutz profile.
I haven't received any emails through the GS "send email" feature since February (that function might be broken right now)... Try using the button here:

Plugin Discounts - The Best Prices on All of Your Plugin Related Needs - COMING SOON!
Old 11th May 2010
  #1210
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Hannes_F's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
In the first picture below you will see in the top right corner it says "Random Hall" with an arrow pointing down next to it. Click on the arrow and you can select the HD version.

The setup page in the second picture shows where you can route the two different engines, etc. You access this page by pressing the blue "SETUP" button.
Hi Tony,

first thanks for the beta license, I am very interested, and also for the HD hint ... will try asap.

I understood the routing in the SETUP menu too, thanks. Now when using a true stereo routing I need to make A and B similar (but not identical). I guess for the time being the way to go is either to enter similar values into both (A and B reverb instance) or to make something up for A, export it to a preset, import that into B and micro-change some things. So I guess there is no fast way to push one slider in order to change the wet/dry ratio synchronized in both, right?
Old 11th May 2010
  #1211
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lordnielson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
I haven't received any emails through the GS "send email" feature since February (that function might be broken right now)... Try using the button here:

Plugin Discounts - The Best Prices on All of Your Plugin Related Needs - COMING SOON!
Cool Tony, thanks.

Also thanks to Hannes F for the private msg.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1212
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
Now when using a true stereo routing I need to make A and B similar (but not identical). I guess for the time being the way to go is either to enter similar values into both (A and B reverb instance) or to make something up for A, export it to a preset, import that into B and micro-change some things. So I guess there is no fast way to push one slider in order to change the wet/dry ratio synchronized in both, right?
That's correct.

What do you mean by 'true stereo'?
Old 11th May 2010
  #1213
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
Hi Tony,

first thanks for the beta license, I am very interested, and also for the HD hint ... will try asap.
Glad to help.

Quote:
I understood the routing in the SETUP menu too, thanks. Now when using a true stereo routing I need to make A and B similar (but not identical). I guess for the time being the way to go is either to enter similar values into both (A and B reverb instance) or to make something up for A, export it to a preset, import that into B and micro-change some things. So I guess there is no fast way to push one slider in order to change the wet/dry ratio synchronized in both, right?
Not sure why you would want to dedicate the two engines in this manner... Just so you can independently tweak the left and right independently, I guess? That's cool... But, I really like the control of the stereo image using a single engine instead. So, I haven't tried doing it in the way you are talking about.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1214
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Hannes_F's Avatar
 

Hi Martin, hi Tony,

the term "True Stereo" refers to the two modes that are show as no. 3 and no. 4 in your SETUP menu. It is an honour to fill you in in that regard:

Imagine you record an instrument dry and in mono and pan it then to the hard left. Now you feed that signal to a conventional stereo reverb then either

1. The reverb is set up as a dual mono reverb (each channel reverberated seperately). As a result the reverb of the instrument will only come out of the left speaker while an acoustical recording in a room would also have some signal on the right speaker.

or

2. The signal is monoized and then reverbed. Now we have some signal coming from the right speaker too but the reverb is equal for both channels This is currently the case for the first setup configuration of your reverb. You can easily check this by setting it to 100 % wet and then panpoting the souce from left to right which makes no audible difference.

Now for the "True Stereo" concept you need two additional signal paths. One processes the signal coming from the left and sends it to the right loudspeaker and the other does it vice versa. That is why four reverb engines are needed for it:

A The left to left engine ... left part of the signal to left loudspeaker ... NOT to left ear(!)
B The left to right engine ... left part of signal to right ls
C The right to left engine ... right part of signal to left ls
D The right to right engine ... right part of signal to right ls

I should add that this is not so relevant if you are recording a real orchestra in a real room and just need the reverb to fatten the sound up a bit. Because depending on which mic setup you use in a real recording (XY, spaced omnis, ORTF or Decca Tree) you will have these cross-references already in your recorded signal to a bigger or lesser amount. 'True stereo' is more important when dealing with dry mono recordings that are panpotted (which is a bit questionable as a method but often used), that is why especially composers working with samples love it.

The reverbs that offer True Stereo out of the box are (from top of the head) Altiverb, Pristine Space, Aether, LiquidSonics Reverberate. I don't own a Bricasti M7 (yet) but I suppose it has it. Not sure about the "Super Stereo" mode of the Lexicons. And not to forget, your reverb offers it too, that is what the third and fourth configurations in the setup are for.

All that being said here is a suggestion: There could be a shortcut like "c", and every time this is pressed plus any value is double clicked, then this value is copied to the other instance (from A to B or from B to A). Only this value, nothing else. I guess I would use that on reverb time and dry/wet ratio frequently.

Cheers
Hannes
Old 11th May 2010
  #1215
Here for the gear
 

Hi Tony,
was teh plug-in tested with Sonar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Glad to help.


Not sure why you would want to dedicate the two engines in this manner... Just so you can independently tweak the left and right independently, I guess? That's cool... But, I really like the control of the stereo image using a single engine instead. So, I haven't tried doing it in the way you are talking about.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1216
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
the term "True Stereo" refers to the two modes that are show as no. 3 and no. 4 in your SETUP menu........................
A single engine (A or B) in the LX480 (and Lexicon 480L) is completely "True Stereo" in your terms as long you have WID at 45. If you only use left input, the single engine will produce reverberation in both left and right output. The same is correct for only using the right input. The LX480 does NOT sum the inputs. A single engine in LX480 is 'True Stereo' as the other reverbs you mentioned (just to clarify that convolution reverbs are only 'True Stereo' if you have 4 channel IR). As with all Lexicon reverbs, you'll have to use lower settings for 'Shape' to hear your panning in the reverberation field.

The multiple engines in LX480 (and Lexicon 480L) can create completely decorrelated reverberation fields from left and right input by choosing different settings or completely different algorithms.

Routing (2), 3 and 4 have nothing todo with 'True Stereo', since a single engine is already 'True Stereo' - but should be used to combine different algorithms to produce extremely dense/wide reverberation or combine the Early reflection from Random Ambience with the tail from Random Hall etc.

Hope that clarify some of the questions regarding routing.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1217
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thermos's Avatar
Hey Martin,

dude, congrats. I can't wait to get my hands on all the algos to mix with. It sounds awesome.

I would suggest being able to double click on the values above the larc sliders to enter exact values. I felt the need for this when screwing with the width and wanting to get it back to 45, which proved just slightly tricky. I didn't try the updated beta that Tony sent because I've been away, so maybe that feature is there already. If it is, nevermind.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1218
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElBlindo View Post
Hi Tony,
was teh plug-in tested with Sonar?
No we (Relab) haven't. But we haven't received any reports about problems in Sonar from those who have tried the beta.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1219
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I would suggest being able to double click on the values above the larc sliders to enter exact values. I felt the need for this when screwing with the width and wanting to get it back to 45, which proved just slightly tricky. I didn't try the updated beta that Tony sent because I've been away, so maybe that feature is there already. If it is, nevermind.
That functionality is not implemented (yet).
Old 11th May 2010
  #1220
Quote:
Originally Posted by vx2000 View Post
Question (for those who may know, or have an idea):

How was the Lexicon LX480 algorithm developed?

This info "may" give us a better idea how closely the LX480 could match the 480L. Having said that, I do have the beta version and it does sound good. I do not have a 480L, but it does seem to have some of the vibe, It's hard to tell one-for-one. I have worked with the 480L in the past. I need to work more with this plugin over the next couple weeks.

One thing we do know (This info is shared by the Lexicon coder himself for the PCM Native Bundle) is that the PCM Native Bundle IS the algorithm used from the PCM96, so there's nothing artificial about this.

One thing for sure is the PCM Bundle has "that" highend Leixon sound while allowing the source sounds not to cloud up and end up sounding like the source with reverb.
Actually I'm curious about this as well. We know the Lex algos are the exact 96 algos. How did warp 69 develop his algos for this plug?
If just done by ear then warp 69 did an incredible job. Or does warp 69 have access to the old code?
Not that it matters because this verb great! JUst curious. heh
Old 11th May 2010
  #1221
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
We know the Lex algos are the EXACT 96 algos.
And you write that in this thread? 3 * heh

It depends how we define 'exact'
Old 11th May 2010
  #1222
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Hannes_F's Avatar
 

Hi Martin,

thanks for responding. You are right if you write

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
.. as long you have WID at 45. If you only use left input, the single engine will produce reverberation in both left and right output. The same is correct for only using the right input.
... BUT there should be an audible difference between feeding a mono source into the left channel or the right channel, no?

Quote:
As with all Lexicon reverbs, you'll have to use lower settings for 'Shape' to hear your panning in the reverberation field.
That seems to be the case because more of the unreverberated signal is passed in the initial phase, not because there are really dedicated and non-equal cross-relation signal paths involved *for the reverb computation* ... yes/no?

Quote:
Routing (2), 3 and 4 have nothing todo with 'True Stereo', since a single engine is already 'True Stereo'
I am not sure whether Lexicon 480L was ever supposed to be a True Stereo reverb, and if not it would be unlogical if the LX480 is. But again, I may be wrong here.

Another question Martin, if I may ask: It seems that the LX480 introduces a noise floor even without input, it is around -110 dBFS in the high frequences and -80 dBFS in the basses. Is that correct?

All that said your reverb sounds good, no discussion about that.

Thanks
Hannes
Old 11th May 2010
  #1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
And you write that in this thread? 3 * heh

It depends how we define 'exact'
LOL!. Ok what do I know! I was under the impression that they were the exact algos, but who cares. Im not buying the Lex bundle Im going to buy the LX480, so I asked the question out of curiosity. I don`t care how you got the LX480 to sound like it does, I`m just grateful you did it!
Old 11th May 2010
  #1224
Gear Nut
 

.

//: ... BUT there should be an audible difference between feeding a mono source into the left channel or the right channel, no? ://

I am not sure if I understand the question, but;

Have you tried to pan the reverb send like the channel pan?


\terje

.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1225
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
... BUT there should be an audible difference between feeding a mono source into the left channel or the right channel, no?
And there is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
That seems to be the case because more of the unreverberated signal is passed in the initial phase, not because there are really dedicated and non-equal cross-relation signal paths involved *for the reverb computation* ... yes/no?
I believe you somehow are comparing with reverbs that uses Early Reflection Engines?! Lexicon (the older algorithms) and Quantec doesn't believe in Early Reflection Engines (multiple taps) and provide extremely basic functionality in that department. If you want to compare with other reverbs, then try to turn off the Early Reflection Engines before comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
Another question Martin, if I may ask: It seems that the LX480 introduces a noise floor even without output, it is around -110 dBFS in the high frequences and -80 dBFS in the basses. Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1226
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
Hi Martin,

thanks for responding. You are right if you write



... BUT there should be an audible difference between feeding a mono source into the left channel or the right channel, no?

That seems to be the case because more of the unreverberated signal is passed in the initial phase, not because there are really dedicated and non-equal cross-relation signal paths involved *for the reverb computation* ... yes/no?

I am not sure whether Lexicon 480L was ever supposed to be a True Stereo reverb, and if not it would be unlogical if the LX480 is. But again, I may be wrong here.

Another question Martin, if I may ask: It seems that the LX480 introduces a noise floor even without input, it is around -110 dBFS in the high frequences and -80 dBFS in the basses. Is that correct?

All that said your reverb sounds good, no discussion about that.

Thanks
Hannes
I noticed some noise too, all part of the modeling I'm sure. Couldn't get the same sound without it.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1227
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WSperner View Post
Well, thats great news!!!
Please tell us the estimated pricerange of this reverb....

best regards
Wolfgang Sperner
Hard to gauge. The more people coming on this thread raving about the demo the more the price continues to rise. heh
Old 11th May 2010
  #1228
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Hard to gauge. The more people coming on this thread raving about the demo the more the price continues to rise. heh
No, Tony said the price was set before the announcement.
Old 11th May 2010
  #1229
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
No, Tony said the price was set before the announcement.
uhuh sure. heh


is just the mac demo available now? No pc VST?
Old 11th May 2010
  #1230
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Hannes_F's Avatar
 

Pitch

Hi Martin,

I guess you will look at me as an agent of another company or something if I say what comes now but I am not

Could it be that the LX480 lowers the pitch of the reverb? I was hearing something like being out of pitch and couldn't believe, so I feeded a 1 kHz sine wave to it. And right, the reverb signal (LX480 in default mode) goes down about 5 Hz.

And ... could we please (pretty please) have the reverb without noise? I am delivering single stems on a regular base and believe me, noise sums up in this case. I don't care whether this is 'realistic' or not ... since I am doing acoustical recordings I am always fighting noise anyways and if I want I can have plenty of it.
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