The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Relab LX480 Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 11th March 2010
  #721
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
4 different recordings of Random Hall algorithm - same settings.

There's alot of modulation so every single recording is different even if it's from the same unit.

3 from Lexicon and 1 from the LX480 plugin :

www.relab.dk/Test/A.wav
www.relab.dk/Test/B.wav
www.relab.dk/Test/C.wav
www.relab.dk/Test/D.wav
I listened to them very carefully and I can say that the tail in B (Relab) is the most static, has the least modulation.
Even if the example C (PCM Native) sounds unattractive for the first few hundred miliseconds, the rest of the tail is very similar to the 480 examples (A and D).
It can be easily heard on headphones. I would say B needs a bit more variety and randomness to make it more alive. Perhaps it is just a matter of correct settings.
It sounds a bit like there is the same modulation on left and right channel (slight modulation changes happen to both channels in the same way), while the Lexicon examples seem to have modulation separated between the channels and therefore are a bit wider.
Old 11th March 2010
  #722
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
I listened to them very carefully and I can say that the tail in B (Relab) is the most static, has the least modulation.
What are you listening for? The C sample quickly falls into a beat pattern, unlike all of the other samples.

What do you mean by modulation?

On an impulsive source there is not much pitch to listen for. The only other thing to look for in randomization is the lack of a steady beat pattern. Since the C sample is the worst in this regard, I am confused by your comments.



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #723
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
What are you listening for? The C sample quickly falls into a beat pattern, unlike all of the other samples.
What do you mean by modulation?
On an impulsive source there is not much pitch to listen for. The only other thing to look for in randomization is the lack of a steady beat pattern. Since the C sample is the worst in this regard, I am confused by your comments.
The C sample is the most colored sounding (midrange), is that what you like?
By modulation I don't mean pitch modulation but just some randomness in reverb tail. B is the smoothest and the most stable while decaying.
I am not very experienced user of good quality reverbs (yet ). I am listening to it on headphones only and it is difficult to judge the color. What I am trying to say there is much more randomness between left and right channel in the A, C and D examples. Especially A and D. The difference between A and B, for example, is that A reminds me doubled guitars panned hard left and hard right, while B is one guitar take run through a Waves Doubler. That example is too drastic, but it's the only way I can explain what I'm hearing. They are both stereo, but A sounds as if there were two different reverbs (and even different snare drum hits) panned hard left and hard right, while B has less variety between L and R. I am talking about what's happening from 1/3 of the sample.

Also, I am having difficulties to recognize the beat pattern in C. But I will keep listening.

I would probably understand a bit more if I could hear some shorter drum chambers or plates on a whole kit. Or if I had a chance to run the dry sample through one of the reverbs I know (for example Altiverb with 480 impulse).
Old 11th March 2010
  #724
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
A reminds me doubled guitars panned hard left and hard right, while B is one guitar take run through a Waves Doubler. That example is too drastic, but it's the only way I can explain what I'm hearing.
for listening carefully! It is an art, and I will listen for what you are hearing as well.



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #725
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
There is also another thing I forgot to mention - B sounds compressed. There is obvious noise floor becoming louder as the reverb tail becomes quiet.

I imported all 4 files to Logic and now I am able to quickly compare different sections of those tracks. I truly agree that C has the least appealing color.
Old 11th March 2010
  #726
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
while B has less variety between L and R.
Yes, putting on the phones, I see your point re: A vs B. I think that it is resulting from the high frequencies lingering longer in A than in B. It sounds like B is losing the highs more quickly and as a result losing some stereo dimension though the latter half of the tail. Good call.

Could be the alg, or it could be the settings as you mentioned. B does sound a slight bit more colored, but again, I think this may be just a more rapid loss of the highs in the tail.



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #727
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

I think any of those reverbs arre very nice and I would gladly use. It's a great time for reverb. We finally got decent verb itb and new awesome stuff like Bricasti.

And of course my groundbreaking 224XL emu I will be announcing shortly that I already pre-announced earlier in the thread. I have gotten tremendous pms about this so sorry if I haven't responded thus far. All will be revealed soon, and then you all will be able to resume your mixes. Sorry to delay you. Another tease: I am also making a itb remote LARC plugin to control the 224 plugin. It will be amazing. More details to follow.
Old 11th March 2010
  #728
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
Also, I am having difficulties to recognize the beat pattern in C. But I will keep listening.
I found it - it can be easily heard during first second after the drum hit.
Old 11th March 2010
  #729
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
I have gotten tremendous pms about this so sorry if I haven't responded thus far.
Advil maybe? I'll ask my wife. heh



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #730
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Advil maybe? I'll ask my wife. heh



-Casey
well I can be bitchy heh
Old 11th March 2010
  #731
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Yes, putting on the phones, I see your point re: A vs B. I think that it is resulting from the high frequencies lingering longer in A than in B. It sounds like B is losing the highs more quickly and as a result losing some stereo dimension though the latter half of the tail. Good call.
Could be the alg, or it could be the settings as you mentioned. B does sound a slight bit more colored, but again, I think this may be just a more rapid loss of the highs in the tail.

-Casey
You are right. I listened to the part between 10sec and 13sec, I put a LPF on A and I could make it very similar to B.
There will be many different algorithms in the Relab 480, right? There will also be some which have slower loss of highs?
Old 11th March 2010
  #732
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
There will be many different algorithms in the Relab 480, right? There will also be some which have slower loss of highs?
Oh yes, of course (presets will vary as well).

This is a function of the high frequency multiply and high frequency crossover parameters.



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #733
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
I noticed one more thing in B. I could hear a very specific frequency resonating, a low pitch sound and I found it with a narrow eq - it's 180Hz. This is worth looking into why it is there on B and not so present on Lexicon examples.

On the part from 22sec to 29sec I played with Match EQ applying A spectrum to B, C and D.

A to B:
Relab LX480-picture-8.png

A to C:
Relab LX480-picture-9.png

A to D:
Relab LX480-picture-10.png
Old 11th March 2010
  #734
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
it's 180Hz.
Don't know, Warp?



-Casey
Old 11th March 2010
  #735
Lives for gear
 
Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
I listened to them very carefully and I can say that the tail in B (Relab) is the most static, has the least modulation.
I have infact commented on that in this post (at the bottom) : https://www.gearslutz.com/board/4941875-post448.html

Probably not the best or most detailed description, so here goes :

The setting of SPIN (which controls the rate of the modulation) was 42 (around 2.6Hz) on all the units. I simply forgot that the SPIN value was hardcoded in the plugin so it didn't matter what the interface value was, it would always be 18 (around 1Hz) for testing purpose. But people had already started to download the files so I decided not to reupload the correct one. The modulation is more than twice as fast on A and D compared to B and the difference between left and right is therefore more pronounced in the A and D files. It will of course also result in a different 'modulation' tone in the tail.

Note to Martin : Check for hardcoded values
Old 11th March 2010
  #736
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Warp, would you be able to post the dry sample you used for the purpose of the test?
Regardless, after careful listening I think this plugin is going to be amazing. I can't wait to test it!
Old 11th March 2010
  #737
Lives for gear
 
Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
Warp, would you be able to post the dry sample you used for the purpose of the test?
The dry sample is somewhere in this thread - posted by Shy if Im not mistaken.
Old 11th March 2010
  #738
Shy
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, the dry sample is here.

Come on, I have a project that needs this sound. I hope this month it will be available .
Old 11th March 2010
  #739
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
Note to Martin : Check for hardcoded values
Especially before you release the product.

A little background, for non-developers: It is common when working on a new algorithm to "hard code" some numeric values in the algorithm while developing it. This allows you to hear the results, without making sure that particular fiddly piece of the interface is working. Later on, you go back and make sure that the parameter that you set to a preset value inside the algorithm is properly hooked up to the plugin interface.
Old 11th March 2010
  #740
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
Especially before you release the product.

A little background, for non-developers: It is common when working on a new algorithm to "hard code" some numeric values in the algorithm while developing it. This allows you to hear the results, without making sure that particular fiddly piece of the interface is working. Later on, you go back and make sure that the parameter that you set to a preset value inside the algorithm is properly hooked up to the plugin interface.
interesting anorak insight
Old 11th March 2010
  #741
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
interesting anorak insight
And here you go with the anorak thing again. Remember that the classic reverb designers don't wear anoraks. They wear BEARDS. In fact, one could fairly say that they ROCK THE BEARDS.

SST282_History

I tend to have a few days growth, and I know that Casey and NS are clean shaven (at least NS was a few years back, when I met him at an AES show). Not sure about Martin's facial hair situation. Maybe he needs to grow a beard in order to finish up the work. Channel the reverb powers. Like Samson, except with a beard. Get all Techno Viking.
Old 11th March 2010
  #742
Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
And here you go with the anorak thing again. Remember that the classic reverb designers don't wear anoraks. They wear BEARDS. In fact, one could fairly say that they ROCK THE BEARDS.

SST282_History

I tend to have a few days growth, and I know that Casey and NS are clean shaven (at least NS was a few years back, when I met him at an AES show). Not sure about Martin's facial hair situation. Maybe he needs to grow a beard in order to finish up the work. Channel the reverb powers. Like Samson, except with a beard. Get all Techno Viking.
LOL - those beards are awesome - true reverb pioneers!
Old 11th March 2010
  #743
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Chris Moore

I did try to grow it out for an extraordinary visit with one of the legends just last week.



-Casey
Attached Thumbnails
Relab LX480-cm-cd-web.jpg  
Old 11th March 2010
  #744
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
I want a reverb beard
In fact lets have a reverb beard competition , the winner gets ..... well ....
Old 12th March 2010
  #745
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I did try to grow it out for an extraordinary visit with one of the legends just last week.
This makes me so happy. I'll bet that V2 is almost out the door as well, isn't it? I'm telling ya, reverbs are all about THE BEARD.

What is Chris Moore up to nowadays?
Old 12th March 2010
  #746
when I grow up I want to be a reverb alchemist and have a beard

PS Sean - my friend was telling me about Norse Methology the other day and mentioned Valhalla - the majestic and enormous Hall of the afterlife....I was like - oh yeah I know Valhalla....awesome and appropriate name!
Old 12th March 2010
  #747
Gear Head
 

Another awesome reverb beard:
Attached Images
Relab LX480-barry-webhead.jpg 
Old 12th March 2010
  #748
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
interesting anorak insight
It seems, this is a talk between scientests-mathematicians and audio professionals- listeners...to myself, it is much interesting to hear the price for product, keeping in mind there is already on the market 79$ DAW which is replica of 00000$ analog mixer and sounds like 000000...digital reverbs started with 20000$ long time ago...
Old 12th March 2010
  #749
Gear Nut
 
herrvlad's Avatar
 

I had a dream last night that the price of this new reverb is going to be 70€.

In the dream Warp said something like he was going to break the bank with his revolutionary pricing.
Old 12th March 2010
  #750
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Pricing is already revolutionary when it is below 1500$, if you consider what it is emulating....
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Warp69 / Music Computers
764
leonardo777 / Music Computers
33
beatpete / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
2
TNM / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
5
seancostello / Product Alerts older than 2 months
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump