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Anyone doing great mixes with Protools LE?
Old 13th November 2009
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Elf View Post
+1. Life's too short to be messing around setting your own delays. First time out every plug-in I tried to use meant re-setting delays across tracks.

Until LE has PDC it's off my list.
See above..unless you're using hardware DSP, you're doing something wrong!
Old 13th November 2009
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
Nash_Dred's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Elf View Post
+1. Life's too short to be messing around setting your own delays. First time out every plug-in I tried to use meant re-setting delays across tracks.

Until LE has PDC it's off my list.
Your loss! More gigs for those of us who are educated and flexible!
Old 13th November 2009
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max3000 View Post
@psycho monkey You make good points and I've certainly learned off you. But I will need more than 48 tracks and paying £280 for them is really weird especially when i've just sourced Logic on amazon fo £299.

I will need to ponder more and thanks for your replies you dirty gearslags!
One other thing to remember is compatibility - if you're going from studio to studio, pro tools is really the way to go.
Old 13th November 2009
  #34
I've now used ProTools LE for six years after retiring from my big studio life. Yes, the "No ADC" can be an issue at times but I consider anything less than 64 samples not a problem. If it's more than that, just record it with the effect, slide it forward and all is well. Of course I wouldn't put a (plug-in) delay on one side of something ( I.E. piano, cymbals, bass mic/D.I) and not on the other.

The time that it takes to do this, is way less than the time it use to take, to cut pieces of 2" tape for comping takes together or doing "air' cuts after the drum fills to put you back in time, flying parts around with a 2 tracks machines, set-up a pre-delay so that the AMS sampler would trigger the snare hit in time with the original, hand tune the ____ with a Eventide H____, setting up offsets on the lynx syncronizer modules, and on and on.

Here is a song recorded, overdubbed and mixed ITB in a basement. I think it sounds great. Lip synced of course for the video, I added the audience sounds from one of the video recorders.
YouTube - The Paps - Cut & Paste Girl
Old 13th November 2009
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
Nash_Dred's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Nonsense.

As I keep pointing out to those who state this, MOST plugins incur no latency or 1 sample latency. Plugins that come under this include Massey, Waves SSL/Neve/API (except the graphic EQ), Reel tape saturation (the flanger has a huge latency), all the digirack stuff, SPL transient designer and so on.

Plugins that DO incur latency include the API graphic, Autotune EVO (I just shift before tuning), and of course any sorts of hardware DSP solution like Duende, UAD etc (which I don't personally use).
Would be interesting to see who is actually using the plugs with gobs of delay....hmmmm.....
Old 14th November 2009
  #36
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

I mean, there are so many alternatives and yet people use a DAW without latency compensation. No doubt you can make great mixes on it, like anything else, but at what cost in editing agony?

If you're starting out and not tied to a DAW, get something with latency compensation, thank me later.
Old 17th November 2009
  #37
Gear Nut
 
Max3000's Avatar
 

Well guys, my mate let me tinker around with his Logic 9 on his Macbook Pro and after about 10 minutes I thought "why am I doing this again???"

Bottom line...Protools 8 looks the shizzle, it's editing features are so easy (to me) - and mixing ITB is actually a short-term goal for me so I'll stick with what I have and even go for the music production kit to get me to 64 tracks.

I did, unfortunately, encounter the delay thingy when I put a heavy soft synth on a track coupled with a Vintage Warmer. Not sure how to combat this but there were a couple of replies above which make it seem like a minor issue (any more tips would be nice )

Thanks again people thumbsup
Old 17th November 2009
  #38
Deleted 1a30a04
Guest
There are some tutorials on how to do this manually about. However,
I've been using MellowMuse's Auto-Time-Adjuster (ATA) and it's
quite good and reasonably priced.

jeff
Old 18th November 2009
  #39
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Franco's Avatar
 

Some of you cats saying that lack of ADC in LE prevents you from doing work must have never had to clean a tape machine, use a patchbay or deal with cables in their life, ahhh the sheltered life of ITB mixers, haha.

I'm mixing in PTLE with UAD cards and am f-ing LOVING it. Adding UAD DelayComp plugins as needed, to be honest, is as much effort as farting.

Some of you guys are just too damn soft, LOL!

EDIT: My personal opinion of the ATA plugin: Garbage. After this marvelous diss, I do feel obligated to state that I've given it a shot since it was in Beta, all the way up to the second-to-last version. Went back to the ol' UAD DelayComp and I'm going to stay there as long as I can.
Old 18th November 2009
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
I mean, there are so many alternatives and yet people use a DAW without latency compensation. No doubt you can make great mixes on it, like anything else, but at what cost in editing agony?

If you're starting out and not tied to a DAW, get something with latency compensation, thank me later.
Latency compensation has never ever affected my editing - how exactly do you think it would?!

...unless you have ambitions of working in professional studios, in which case learning anything OTHER than pro tools (with a side order of logic) is kind of pointless!

It's really not a big deal.
Old 19th November 2009
  #41
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emyers's Avatar
 

Haha, I know this thread has kinda been beaten to death, but I really wanted to start somewhere that I have some real experience to share for my first post!!

To answer the OP's question: I think it's pretty clear that it is definitely possible to record and mix great sounding tracks in ProTools LE with some creativity and good ears. A lot of engineers do it every day and I know a ton of well respected producers who use LE for the majority of their overdub work (while favoring HD and a bigger live room for drums).

Delay Compensation Issues:
Honestly, if you're working in the box, delay compensation doesn't make a huge difference. It's always been a mental annoyance for me, but it's really not all that audible. Mic placement and performance have a much larger impact on phase and timing. It's been noted here several times that most plugins don't add more than 0-1 sample of delay with the exception of UAD (which I don't use either) and some others, though that can add up over a few plugs on a track and can *sometimes* cause phase problems with multi-miced instruments. I've used ATA and found it to be more trouble than it's worth as it gets really clunky when you start using more complicated signal routing and lots of tracks, although it's great for simpler mixes. Where delay comp really shines though is when you want to get out of the box and blend your plugins with the use of outboard gear. I don't think anyone has really mentioned this yet. A D/A->Effect->A/D round trip on a digi002/003 with a buffer size of 1024 produces a really significant amount of latency which is why I for one don't do more more outboard processing in the mixing stage when working in PTLE. Even re-amping can be a pain here. In HD and most other native systems that have ADC this is a whole other story. If you're not worried about these things, then PTLE will not bother you as far as delay compensation is concerned - just make sure you pay attention to mic placement and phase coherency when you're tracking.

Track Count:
Track count CAN be a bit hindering even with the toolkits - especially when you start adding room mics to drum setups and loads of backing vocals, etc. but it's ususally pretty sufficient give or take 1 or 2 tracks.


1 REAL weakness:
A lack of track freezing can tie you up and suck up a significant amount of time if you use a lot of plugins because if you start running low on CPU, you either need to transfer everything to audiosuite (a pain in the ass if you ever need to change anything later) or bounce down stems in real time and then disable the original track so you can go back and make changes later if you need to (also a HUGE pain in the ass). For me this has been increasingly annoying and can suck up a lot of time. Nothing is worse than realizing you need a bit of delay on a guitar for your mix to be perfect, only to realize that you are out of CPU and now have to figure out what to bounce down so you can add the plug without crashing PT or bringing the system to a crawl after the very first playback... except maybe when you bounce background vocals to a stereo stem to add the delay to the guitar and then the client want's to hear more of the 3rd background vocal part.

To me this last part has become significant enough that I'm considering switching to another native system after having been a PTLE user for the last 7 years, but it really depends on your workflow!! These things are all really more annoyances than deal-breakers for most people. And yes, it is really nice to work in PT when you get projects from big studios... but it can be a huge pain in the ass if you're trying to get stuff from anyone else (i.e. logic/nuendo/sonar) too, which is increasingly common with the establishment of more home studio users who realize the importance of a professional mix.

For some examples of PTLE/ITB mixes, feel free to check out my myspace page: Ed Myers on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos. (haha or ask me to send you the .wavs if you really want to hear it)
Old 19th November 2009
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Nash_Dred's Avatar
 

1) Create a send on each track you want to freeze and send them to individual busses. Make sure each send is pre-fader and set to unity.

2) Set the input of each track to the corresponding bus. Yes, I know the word "feedback" comes to mind. I DO recommend turning your speakers down or off for this, just in case.

3) Make sure you've got 'Auto Input Monitoring' and 'Quick Punch' enabled.

4) Duplicate the current playlist on all tracks.

5) Record enable all the tracks and play the song from beginning to end.

6) After the song ends, punch-in and then quickly stop.

7) Use the trim tool to drag out each new region all the way to the left.

8) Make plug-ins on all freeze tracks 'inactive'. You can use them later with the original playlists you duplicated.

Track freeze in LE, thanks to Quick Punch!
Old 20th November 2009
  #43
Gear Addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nati_Dred View Post
1) Create a send on each track you want to freeze and send them to individual busses. Make sure each send is pre-fader and set to unity.

2) Set the input of each track to the corresponding bus. Yes, I know the word "feedback" comes to mind. I DO recommend turning your speakers down or off for this, just in case.

3) Make sure you've got 'Auto Input Monitoring' and 'Quick Punch' enabled.

4) Duplicate the current playlist on all tracks.

5) Record enable all the tracks and play the song from beginning to end.

6) After the song ends, punch-in and then quickly stop.

7) Use the trim tool to drag out each new region all the way to the left.

8) Make plug-ins on all freeze tracks 'inactive'. You can use them later with the original playlists you duplicated.

Track freeze in LE, thanks to Quick Punch!
Songphonic Freeze Track
Songphonic RTAS Tutorial

still, it's no replacement for real track freeze, which hopefully will be a pt reality soon. if not, then like everything else in life, you make do
Old 20th November 2009
  #44
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sleeper1400's Avatar
 

any one doing great mixes on LE?

yes!!
Old 20th November 2009
  #45
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soundeq's Avatar
 

I have mixed platinum records on a PTLE rig. Billboard #1 albums

Now that being said, It was usually the final stage, stems, recalls/etc. Where the bulk of the song was mixed elsewhere (like on a ssl), and Final tweaking done on a easy to access PTLE rig.

Manually compensate delay for plugins (I'm not sure I'm sold on melomuse) I listen Thru Apogee PSX-100 converters on a 002.

Nearly all my production stuff is on a PTLE rig, I leave my HD rig solid and stable (without soft synths) for serious mixing work. Then once the production is solid I move to my PTHD rig.

That being said I've done some pretty bangin' mixes in PTLE, you'd be surprised.
Old 20th November 2009
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thangelz View Post
Songphonic Freeze Track
Songphonic RTAS Tutorial

still, it's no replacement for real track freeze, which hopefully will be a pt reality soon. if not, then like everything else in life, you make do
this is awesome! thanks so much for posting that
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