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UA Plugins , possibly native ? Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 17th November 2009
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
I myself and a lot of famous producers I know are doing just that, supporting UA while using cracked plugins. It´s like, if they´re so stupid to push native and get cracked, then it´s their own fault for not making money. I´m not proud of it, but that´s just the way it goes down in the real world.

So you have no argument.
I have never met a legitimate engineer or producer that uses cracked plugins. The only people I know that use cracked plugins are wannabes and amateurs.

So, that must mean....
Old 17th November 2009
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
I have never met a legitimate engineer or producer that uses cracked plugins. The only people I know that use cracked plugins are wannabes and amateurs.

So, that must mean....
Exactly. However you´re wrong about the other pros I know.
Old 17th November 2009
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
Exactly. However you´re wrong about the other pros I know.
Then you should tell those 'pros' to act like pros instead of broke college kids. And if they're truly 'pros', they should have no problem affording to pay for all of the programming and work that went into those plugins that they value enough to put on their computer and use.
Old 17th November 2009
  #154
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I just wanna say that those of you who swear that UA is going Native because of those two questions on the survey are hilarious. If anything, UA may bless you guys with "light" versions of their effects, or exclusive "native" versions of things like the 1073 (but not the 1081 and the 88RS) for you guys to cry about for the next 5 years.

P.S. Later today, I'm mixing a PT session with my 4 UAD-1s and 2 UAD-2 Duos, I got most of the effects and it feels f-ing GREAT to know some of you cats waiting for these to go Native are hating right about now, hahaha! fuuck
Old 18th November 2009
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choukette View Post
think about the lexicon reverb at 1500 usd, you pay it and 2 week later you learn the plugin is cracked and any kid play with it on his latop for nothing (and he doesnt have to support a silly usb key).

this will never arrive with DSP plugin

because you can't run natively the DSP coded plugins on your native CPU even if you emulate authorisation response.

you have to emulate the challenge response with the dsp card and the dsp itself (good luck, this is a lot of work for a so reduced market)
That's such a backwards negative way of thinking... Make your music because you like to and, support companies because it's the right thing to do. I don't see how knowing that someone else is stealing it should effect you at all.
Old 18th November 2009
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
I myself and a lot of famous producers I know are doing just that, supporting UA while using cracked plugins. It´s like, if they´re so stupid to push native and get cracked, then it´s their own fault for not making money. I´m not proud of it, but that´s just the way it goes down in the real world.

So you have no argument.
Okay, I stand corrected (see my above post).
Old 18th November 2009
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco View Post
I just wanna say that those of you who swear that UA is going Native because of those two questions on the survey are hilarious. If anything, UA may bless you guys with "light" versions of their effects, or exclusive "native" versions of things like the 1073 (but not the 1081 and the 88RS) for you guys to cry about for the next 5 years.

P.S. Later today, I'm mixing a PT session with my 4 UAD-1s and 2 UAD-2 Duos, I got most of the effects and it feels f-ing GREAT to know some of you cats waiting for these to go Native are hating right about now, hahaha! fuuck
When did Gear Slutz start allowing 10 year olds to make accounts? Can someone do something about that?
Old 18th November 2009
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Then you should tell those 'pros' to act like pros instead of broke college kids. And if they're truly 'pros', they should have no problem affording to pay for all of the programming and work that went into those plugins that they value enough to put on their computer and use.
Being professional has more to do than simply making a living on music.

Even though some guys may make a few ponies on music production, and have them at the same time not even giving a dime back does not make you a professional.

While at the same time a million bucks of purchased gear and plugins doesn't make you professional either.

Last edited by peter_martin; 18th November 2009 at 04:16 AM.. Reason: language
Old 18th November 2009
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_martin View Post
Being professional has more to do than simply making a living on music.

Even though some guys may make a few ponies on music production, and have them at the same time not even giving a dime back does not make you a professional.

While at the same time a million bucks of purchased gear and plugins doesn't make you professional either.
Hi Peter. I don't disagree with you. I'm not saying what you think I'm saying. I'm simply stating that someone that calls them self a professional wouldn't pirate plugins just because they can, as XAXAU suggested the 'pros' he knows do. I feel like any 'pros' in our industry should understand what hard work is, and why things cost money.

I've worked with several big producers that are somewhat stingy about the money they spend. They don't spend 10k on a TDM Mercury Bundle because even for them, that's just too much money for that software. Does that mean they pirate the software instead? No. It means they do without it, and spend money on the things that they think are worth it.

That's what I'm discussing here: mainly XAXAU's pretty incredible and pathetic attempts to justify his ridiculous positions on this issue. I definitely know that making money doesn't equate to professionality.

There is a lot of software that I don't have that I choose not to pirate. Perhaps XAXAU would call me old fashioned, but I consider myself to be a reasonable person that values other people's work. Besides, I don't need Waves Mercury bundle to do what I do. It would be nice, but I have some restraint and respect.
Old 18th November 2009
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
When did Gear Slutz start allowing 10 year olds to make accounts? Can someone do something about that?
Sorry man, I forget this is the internet and people get their feelings hurt when people bust their balls. Speaking about 10 years, I'll just say that I've been involved with this about 10 years before Gearslutz was even around, back when people would tell you to shut the **** up and stop being a crying little moron, so again, sorry because even though I've been surfing the web for years, old habits die hard.
Old 18th November 2009
  #161
Gear Maniac
 

damn! who would have thought that this simple info would have raised such a debate?

To hump back to the subject, the more i read their email and the more i analyse their marketing strategy, the more i'm convinced they're not going native completely. They probably just want to either run amarketing operation with a couple of native plugs (one of them even might be free if you observe what other plugin manufacturers do lately) Or they're expanding to the low-budget market.

But seriously, there's no chance at all that they abandon DSP based solutions, there's too much commercial implications in such a decision for an impact on the company that the company couldn't hold if the operation fails.

Wait and see....
Old 18th November 2009
  #162
LQM
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Whether UA go native or not, their plugins are really good. They don't seem to be flopping just on DSP cards, so I don't think they have a dire need to change things.

As for pro studios, it's not likely that your really big name studios which charge top dollar and have worldwide reputation, such as Ocean Way or AIR etc, would ever use non legitimate software, but there have been instances of medium sized provincial studios, who often specialize in hip hop, rnb or electronic music (but not just this type of studio before anyone accuses me of bias) who have been busted by the Waves undercover team and while most settled and paid up the $7500 to stay out of court, others didn't, 2 or 3 even stopped trading.

It's sad - any studio charging clients money to record should be running legit software - most groups/artists don't have too much of a clue and don't need you to pirate Waves Mercury to be impressed.
Old 18th November 2009
  #163
Gear Maniac
 

wait.. what??? there's a Waves undercover team ?????
If that's true (not that i doubt your word but i've never heard of it before) they're the only ones on the software market to do so. Neither Adobe, nor MS, Quark or Steinberg have something like that.
Old 18th November 2009
  #164
old news, but yeah, it's true

Quote:
Originally Posted by spasm_dtc View Post
wait.. what??? there's a Waves undercover team ?????
If that's true (not that i doubt your word but i've never heard of it before) they're the only ones on the software market to do so. Neither Adobe, nor MS, Quark or Steinberg have something like that.
Pro Sound News Europe - Waves comes down heavily on cracked plugs users

BanPiracy - Copyright Enforcement for the Audio Software Industry
Old 18th November 2009
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Because i know at least 4 musicians in my home town who have been making music on their PC's with warez for the last 10 years and non of them have spent 1 dime on software , their still trying to get over the idea of paying for something that you can't physically touch.

So they're obviously not using uad plugs then.

They'll never know what it's like
Old 18th November 2009
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spasm_dtc View Post
wait.. what??? there's a Waves undercover team ?????
If that's true (not that i doubt your word but i've never heard of it before) they're the only ones on the software market to do so. Neither Adobe, nor MS, Quark or Steinberg have something like that.
At least not in the western world (the eastern regions tend to look askance at copyright in general). For the very simple reason that it is not a good policy for the software business. At all. tutt
Old 18th November 2009
  #167
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Just thinking, instead of paying a third party for something like ilok protection, why not just issue a version of the card with no dsp chips on it?

So you have the choice as a user, you can pay £500 say for a duo with sharc chips, or you can pay £200 for a 'dongle' card.
If you buy the dongle card, then only the native versions of the plugs are available to you, if you get the card with dsp, then both native and dsp versions are available, and you can choose what to run where, as you can now assigning between v1 and v2 cards, just with the added option to run native.

In order to appease the people buying 'dummy' cards, crying that they are buying the world's most expensive dongle, then just give them a $250 voucher for plugs with their purchase.

The exception could be laptop users as a) they generally could use the extra power anyway, and b) only the solo is available to them which is the cheapest card anyway, so no 'dongle card' for laptops, you just stick with the laptop/solo dsp card.
Old 18th November 2009
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post
Just thinking, instead of paying a third party for something like ilok protection, why not just issue a version of the card with no dsp chips on it?

So you have the choice as a user, you can pay £500 say for a duo with sharc chips, or you can pay £200 for a 'dongle' card.
If you buy the dongle card, then only the native versions of the plugs are available to you, if you get the card with dsp, then both native and dsp versions are available, and you can choose what to run where, as you can now assigning between v1 and v2 cards, just with the added option to run native.

In order to appease the people buying 'dummy' cards, crying that they are buying the world's most expensive dongle, then just give them a $250 voucher for plugs with their purchase.

The exception could be laptop users as a) they generally could use the extra power anyway, and b) only the solo is available to them which is the cheapest card anyway, so no 'dongle card' for laptops, you just stick with the laptop/solo dsp card.
more than a really uselless dongle that take a PCIe slot and don't bring you any power du to the lack of DSP, like any useless usb dongle

i think many moaning people just have to wait UA drop the price of their DSP card (an only one years old dsp card, hey guy if you're hurry to have UAD plugins make more money or be patient).

200 GPB is near the price of a solo, i don't put that on a dongle without any power, even if they give me a plugin for free with
Old 18th November 2009
  #169
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Hello everyone

I think that I’ll be one of the minority, but I have just sold my two UAD-1 cards and all the plug-ins (I had almost all of them).

The quality of the plug-ins is excellent, no doubt about that, but other manufacturers are also producing excellent plug-ins. I felt that today’s machines are so powerful that extra DSP is no longer the attraction that it once was.

Generally, it is large CPU/memory intensive plug-ins like Omnisphere that push my system to the limit, not effects plug-ins. I also wanted to easily move between my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro (no I didn’t want to buy a 17” MacBook Pro just so that I would have an Express port and then pay again for more UAD hardware.) So I have opted for a native only approach.

Certainly I would love UAD to go native. I would buy their plug-ins again because the quality is so high. But I won’t be buying again all the time I need non-portable hardware to use them.

I can’t help feeling that as more musicians turn to laptops for their work, UAD becomes a less attractive option.

As for the posts about Waves undercover teams, I really have no problem with it. Piracy is rife and needs tackling, in my opinion.
Old 18th November 2009
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronehowe View Post
Hello everyone

I think that I’ll be one of the minority, but I have just sold my two UAD-1 cards and all the plug-ins (I had almost all of them).

Certainly I would love UAD to go native. I would buy their plug-ins again because the quality is so high. But I won’t be buying again all the time I need non-portable hardware to use them.

I can’t help feeling that as more musicians turn to laptops for their work, UAD becomes a less attractive option.
Well, pretty much the same situation here. Moving to MacBook (pro), so, my UAD-1s + plugins are for sale. 17" is way to big, not an option, and who knows how long the expresscard will stay on that one. If UA released the plugins Native, I would probably buy a bunch of them again...
Old 18th November 2009
  #171
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It's about time UAD would go native. I think their DSP system is outdated. But I don't see it happening anytime soon. The UAD-2 system is not that old. I would instantly buy some of their plugs though.
Old 18th November 2009
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronehowe View Post
As for the posts about Waves undercover teams, I really have no problem with it. Piracy is rife and needs tackling, in my opinion.
Agree here as well. I mean, it's not very likely that they'll knock on some teenagers door, so, if you are a professional studio or artist who use illegit software and you get busted, you deserve it!
Old 18th November 2009
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloheim View Post
That's such a backwards negative way of thinking... Make your music because you like to and, support companies because it's the right thing to do. I don't see how knowing that someone else is stealing it should effect you at all.
Old 18th November 2009
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choukette View Post
more than a really uselless dongle that take a PCIe slot and don't bring you any power du to the lack of DSP, like any useless usb dongle

i think many moaning people just have to wait UA drop the price of their DSP card (an only one years old dsp card, hey guy if you're hurry to have UAD plugins make more money or be patient).

200 GPB is near the price of a solo, i don't put that on a dongle without any power, even if they give me a plugin for free with
What's useless about a system that has never had its security breached?!
The only question is would doing it that way work out cheaper than going the ilok route? I don't know what the ilok business model is.
I don't even know if keeping the card as a component with native plugs would actually be as safe as the current system.

Using up a pci-e slot isn't much of a counter argument. If the end user could have afforded the dsp version they wuld have used that slot anyway, and even if they purchase a dsp version after buying the dongle version, they just replace the old dummy card with the new dsp card, and then are free to sell on the dummy card.
The native plugs will still be available to them, as well as more grunt plus the dsp plug versions too.

You're right about the price, was a random (and innappropriate) amount!
So whatever, charge them for the card at cost plus vat, after that it's all profit, and no need to reduce the prices of the plugs either.

I think the only real argument against doing it this way (if it's as secure as before) would be the environmental issue..

They would however, for all current uad-1 owners, have to make the native versions of their authorised plugs available on their account, and UA might think that such a move could impinge on prospective upgrade sales of uad-2 dsp cards to uad-1 owners.

The revenue generated from the native plugs across the board should negate that worry though I should think.
Old 18th November 2009
  #175
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rydan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post
I don't even know if keeping the card as a component with native plugs would actually be as safe as the current system.
No, since all you need to do is remove the call to the card, pretty much the same as with other dongles. The DSP cards are safer since they can prevent the "important" code from running if the authorization fails or the call is removed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post

Using up a pci-e slot isn't much of a counter argument. If the end user could have afforded the dsp version they wuld have used that slot anyway
Yes, well, the way I see it, one of the main selling points of a native system would be to NOT use up / need expansion slots...
Old 18th November 2009
  #176
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Expansion slots.. well the slots are inside the computer so it's still native isn't it!
How many slots do you need though?!
I've never been able to fill all the pci slots, even when I had to use firewire pci cards and network cards and all that jazz.

In this present day crack-fest free-for-all l really don't think using a pci-e slot to protect your property is a big deal.

How many cards do you currently have in your system for example, my mobo has 3 each of pci and pci-e, plus the x16 pci-e slot for Gfx.
I could fit 116 channels of rme in/out, two uad-2 quads and a tv tuner card (?!) in this present board, and still have a pci-e slot left, and that's without touching the onboard firewire that I could plug a Liquid Mix or Duende into!

Motherboards are incorporating nowadays most of the features that we used to have to rely on expansion cards for, so we actually have more spare slots now than we ever did.
Wireless adapters are built-in or come as usb sticks, firewire onboard is standard etc.

I'm sure someone mentioned before something about that call not being crackable for some reason as well.. here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rydan
Actually, if the auth system is based on a unique, long, random "ID" stored on each card, that UAD keeps track of, and the algorithm for authorizing a plugin is in hardware or rom code on the card itself, and running on the card DSP, it would be kind of impossible to crack. Oh, and, I actually believe this to be the case.

With enough plugins released you could, perhaps, PERHAPS, reverse-engineer the ID for that specific card using the auth codes for your plugin purchases as data, but I doubt it, since that's a really small data set. And, even if you did, you would still only be able to generate auths for that specific card.
Now I don't know if that is true or not, but sounds good

Actually rydan was the one that commented on the strange attitude of myself and others with regards to reasons for not wanting to see uad plugs cracked.
I can totally see where he's coming from, and I use crack versions of software (wait a minute!) that I actually paid for originally, like many others do:
If you regularly upgrade your system then the hardware ids that many VIs generate 'run out', and it really is a pain in the arse to have to email support and wait for a new response code every time when all you want to do is just get back to working on your project straight away.

In other cases the software actually runs faster and is more stable t seems when the constant usb dongle calls are disabled

Do I care that I paid for and use software when thousands of other people are doing so for free? No. Not in general. But with UAD it's different, because many of their plugs are absolutely unique, and the idea that any old cretin can get his dirty hands on them for nothing really, really pisses me off.
As someone said before, the reason they can afford to keep developing and stay ahead of the game, as well as attracting juicy partners is because there are no uad cracks, and they are wise enough to invest in developing great new plugs that people actually find useful and use as go-to tools.
If they were cracked from day one I very much doubt that the plug-in suite would look as impressive as it does today, or that we would continue to get them at decent prices and with the many frequent promotions that we are treated to.

UAD still has the reputation of being one of, if not the best plug-in suppliers there is to date, all things considered, and it's because they have protected their investment wisely, and I think they should continue to do so.
Old 18th November 2009
  #177
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rydan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post
How many cards do you currently have in your system for example, my mobo has 3 each of pci and pci-e, plus the x16 pci-e slot for Gfx.
I have zero in one of my computers, and zero in the other one. I, as quite a few other musicians/producers in the electronic part of the spectrum, have moved to laptops for my music needs.
Old 18th November 2009
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post
Just thinking, instead of paying a third party for something like ilok protection, why not just issue a version of the card with no dsp chips on it?

So you have the choice as a user, you can pay £500 say for a duo with sharc chips, or you can pay £200 for a 'dongle' card.
If you buy the dongle card, then only the native versions of the plugs are available to you, if you get the card with dsp, then both native and dsp versions are available, and you can choose what to run where, as you can now assigning between v1 and v2 cards, just with the added option to run native.

In order to appease the people buying 'dummy' cards, crying that they are buying the world's most expensive dongle, then just give them a $250 voucher for plugs with their purchase.

The exception could be laptop users as a) they generally could use the extra power anyway, and b) only the solo is available to them which is the cheapest card anyway, so no 'dongle card' for laptops, you just stick with the laptop/solo dsp card.
What a totally daft idea.

All of the downsides of PCIe cards - namely no portability, using up a slot (you may have 3 PCIe slots free, but ever heard of PT HD? people buy expansion chassis to fit in more slots!), built in obsolescence (if PCIe slots are ever replaced, you'll need to update the cards) and excluding laptop/imac users, and none of the advantages (the primary one being extra power).

I think you're in a minority of one who thinks this is a better idea than going iLok or any other sort of copy protection. I'd probably buy UAD plugins if they were portable, and didn't have the massive latency. I'd never buy this concept.
Old 18th November 2009
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
I have never met a legitimate engineer or producer that uses cracked plugins. The only people I know that use cracked plugins are wannabes and amateurs.

So, that must mean....
If only that were true. Unfortunately it's not.
Old 18th November 2009
  #180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco View Post
fuuck
I wish people got an instant ban for using that smiley. I don't think I've ever seen a post of any use that contained it!
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