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UA Plugins , possibly native ? Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 14th November 2009
  #91
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cane creek's Avatar
 

In my experience the type of people who use cracked software are never the type who would ever consider buying software anyway , so i would never view somebody who uses cracked software as a potensial customer , they'd either use the cracked stuff because its free to them or do without , you'd never get a penny out of those type of folk.
Old 14th November 2009
  #92
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by choukette View Post
you get the main idea, the business model work and still will work for years and if they release native version they have to fight against warez, lose this war and risk bankrupcy just to satisfy people who love to play with laptop and limited hardware of the Imac.

ilok, syncrosoft are still cracked and limited (and they certainly will be forever), dsp card don't

and for those who think the dsp card is too pricey, it would be hard for UA to believe that because they sold more UAD 2 quad than they expect in 2008/2009.

remember how it was hard to have a quad during november/december 2008 (yeah paranoiac people : UA certainly do that themself just to show how they rule the market ).

now it will be UA's choice, but native will be the beggining of the end for them.

UA bring me pro hi end tools that weren't use freely by any kids (unlike waves, sonnox, waves arts, urs, flux, kjaherus, nomad factory, ik, fabfilter, ect ect...)

we pay 250 usd for an uncracked plugin, the idea to pay 750 usd for the same, but cracked, native plugin doesn't really interest me.
Afaik, there's no recent ( ~2+ years!) illegal version of any of our plug-ins out there, if I am wrong, I'd love to get this information asap.



Cheers,
/Felix
Old 14th November 2009
  #93
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Smart posts by Rydan, Although personally I don't find there are other plugins that match UAD's quality overall. I don't think the card makes them sound better of course, but I do think that their plugins are good enough they can get away with forcing people to buy a card to run them.

They have to do something to run on iMacs etc. though...this is a major market constriction.

And as for kiddies using kwacks, go ahead and give everyone in the world the same tools! Let's see who can do something fun.

Meanwhile I pay for all my plugins and reward jobs well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rydan View Post
Well, no. If the code that goes form your computer to the UAD card is verified using code that runs on the DSP of the card, and verified against a long, unique, random generated, ID stored on the card itself, you can't. The codes going in would be unique for each card/plugin combo, and no code comes out, only a ok/not ok, which in turn would only provide gui feedback, so, even if you change that value, the plugin gui would appear to work, but the audio processing wouldn't.

Also, not possible to bypass the call, since the part of the plugin handling sound is on the DSP, which also is responsible for determining if the code is allowed to run. Remember, you have no (reasonable) way of tampering with the code running on the DSP, if the really core parts of that code is in ROM on the card.

The main difference with syncrossoft/ilok is that it's enough to remove the call completely, since all the audio processing happens on the computer CPU. This is not the case with UAD.

In fact, the simplest way to "crack" them would probably be to reverse engineer the algorithms used, and port them to native format...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydan View Post
Well, first of all, just because a thousand people use a crack, doesn't mean that a thousand people would buy the plugin if the crack weren't available.

Second, I'm pretty sure the total market for UA would be a lot bigger if they removed the need for extra hardware (and for that matter, slots for said hardware, which is getting increasingly more rare as people move towards laptops. My guess is, more than enough to make up for the revenue lost by those who would have bought it if the crack hadn't been available. In fact, just the possibility to have people demoing your products without the need UAD hardware would probably make a HUGE difference.

Third. I am as of now leaving the UAD platform. I've gone laptop, and have no slots for a UAD card, and, let me tell you, there are other high quality plugins out there. Probably not any better than UAD, but no worse either. You need to look around a bit, but they are there, and they're getting better as well, just as UA is. That being said, if UA went native, I would look no further.
Old 14th November 2009
  #94
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

I like the UAD "Club" I'm in currently, if they go native I'll be joining the "Hardware" club and I'll dump all things plugin. There's a certain satisfaction knowing that only serious people who ponied up the investment/money get to talk good/bad about the products they use on the net.
Old 14th November 2009
  #95
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeper_6 View Post
I like the UAD "Club" I'm in currently, if they go native I'll be joining the "Hardware" club and I'll dump all things plugin. There's a certain satisfaction knowing that only serious people who ponied up the investment/money get to talk good/bad about the products they use on the net.
I hope you're joking, or that I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. Because if you're saying what I think you're saying, then you have successfully put forth the dumbest argument against native UA plugins that I have ever heard, or perhaps the dumbest general argument against anything that I have ever heard.
Old 14th November 2009
  #96
Gear Maniac
Personally, I like UAD stability and the DSP power always helps, especially with UAD-2 running the older plugins. Of all the plugs I've used, Nebula, Flux, Softube, and Eiosis are the only solid competition for UA and they are all native.

UA will have to do something different once all the Windows 7 drivers/updates are out - DAW users with I7's and 8 GB of RAM won't be too happy when their 2 UAD Quads ($3000) and thier UAD plugin collection (Easily 2k and up) crap out @ 96k on their $1400 Workstation with the system CPU at 35%.

A UAD version of the Sonic Core Xite with a couple UAD Quads, 2192 converters, and some bypassable 610 type pres would make a nice frontend, especially now that laptops can actually replace desktops, power-wise. Sonic Core and Steinberg (MR816x) have already gone in this direction.

If UAD goes native, I'd imagine they'd offer current customers an upgrade that would allow shared DSP and native power with native kicking in when the cards run out. This would protect some of the investment of current UAD card owners.

If UAD would drop some dedicated, cleaner Mastering grade Comps and EQ's (Like Flux), I could easily drop all my other plugs and use strictly UA plugs. I like the way UA drops new, innovative plugs - ambush style, but I don't like how they drop their platforms (UAD-2) ambush style.

Once upon a time, frustrated with how few plugs I could run with two cards, I sold a UAD1e Extreme pak (with almost every plug UA had at the time) 9 months before the UAD-2 quad dropped and instead bought two more cards to run with fewer (and newer) plugs. Had I known UAD-2 was on the way...

Still kicking myself for that one - especially seeing what the UAD1e cards go for now.
Old 14th November 2009
  #97
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Firechild's Avatar
A reason for UA to go native would be of course to reach out to everybody that for some reason haven´t bought any UAD hardware to run the plugins on. There would be a lot of more potential buyers of their plugins...That´s the good point of view.

The other side around is that an UAD1/2 owner has some psychological feeling "to belong to the UAD family" and will therefore be more loyal and more willing to buy new releases of plugins which are made only for their beloved DSP card...

I don´t know if it´s the right move to take, I think that the DSP cycles coming from my UAD-2 duo is better than have the plugins running completely native...
It would be interesting though, to have some general benchmark charts UAD-2 vs Intel i7 CPU regarding processing power...
Old 15th November 2009
  #98
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

I'm still waiting to hear a single good reason for UA to not go Native. I still haven't heard a good reason yet. Being afraid of alienating the early adopters is not a good reason. If every company was afraid to make better products due to fear of pissing off the owners of the earlier products, innovation would slow down immensely.

It's like all of the people that buy a laptop 2 months before a new version comes out, and they complain. I just want to tell those people to shut the f*** up. That laptop was good enough for them when they forked out their thousands of dollars, so it still should be. The existence of something newer does not make something obsolete. That is the same reason Pro Tools HD isn't going anywhere for the next 10 years, regardless of how good Logic and other competitors get, or regardless of whether or not Avid release a native version. It's a great, reliable product, and it will continue to do its job for many years. It's a staple and a workhorse for a reason.

UA would be crazy not to take their plugins to the mainstream. Now that everyone knows how good they sound, they can start to take over some market share by making their plugins available to everyone, including those that didn't want to buy a piece of hardware to run software (never a good idea in my opinion, but it's worked for PT).

Once again, someone give me a single good reason for UA to not go native with their plugs.

/selfish rant because I want UA plugins
Old 15th November 2009
  #99
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Exclusivity and conspicuous consumption are, as we see in the thread, significant draws to "high-end" products.

For those reasons many would laugh at "high-end plugin" as an oxymoron. This is why the Lexicon plugins have drawn so much controversy.

UAD's most important survey will be of their licensors. Would Manley want its brand smeared out as kracks on every kiddies' copy of Fruity Loops?
Old 15th November 2009
  #100
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
I'm still waiting to hear a single good reason for UA to not go Native. I still haven't heard a good reason yet. Being afraid of alienating the early adopters is not a good reason. If every company was afraid to make better products due to fear of pissing off the owners of the earlier products, innovation would slow down immensely.

It's like all of the people that buy a laptop 2 months before a new version comes out, and they complain. I just want to tell those people to shut the f*** up. That laptop was good enough for them when they forked out their thousands of dollars, so it still should be. The existence of something newer does not make something obsolete. That is the same reason Pro Tools HD isn't going anywhere for the next 10 years, regardless of how good Logic and other competitors get, or regardless of whether or not Avid release a native version. It's a great, reliable product, and it will continue to do its job for many years. It's a staple and a workhorse for a reason.

UA would be crazy not to take their plugins to the mainstream. Now that everyone knows how good they sound, they can start to take over some market share by making their plugins available to everyone, including those that didn't want to buy a piece of hardware to run software (never a good idea in my opinion, but it's worked for PT).

Once again, someone give me a single good reason for UA to not go native with their plugs.

/selfish rant because I want UA plugins

It's been said many times. Latency. If you are going to have dsp in a professional environment it needs to be realtime like Protools.
Old 15th November 2009
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
It's been said many times. Latency. If you are going to have dsp in a professional environment it needs to be realtime like Protools.
Right now they are actually worse off there than native. If they added i/o to the DSP cards (a'la TDM, MX4, 2D, etc.) then they could have a low-latency story.
Old 15th November 2009
  #102
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Exclusivity and conspicuous consumption are, as we see in the thread, significant draws to "high-end" products.

For those reasons many would laugh at "high-end plugin" as an oxymoron. This is why the Lexicon plugins have drawn so much controversy.

UAD's most important survey will be of their licensors. Would Manley want its brand smeared out as kracks on every kiddies' copy of Fruity Loops?
First of all, I think that is an incredibly stupid reason. The product should speak (or sound) for itself. And considering the fact that UA has gear in every Guitar Center in the United States (last time I checked, my local GC also had Manley stuff), I don't buy that. It's like Pilsbury selling their cookies at Wal-Mart but insisting that they won't make break and bake cookies because they don't taste as good when they're cooked.

Besides, price alone can make a product exclusive. They don't need to manufacture a piece of hardware for exclusivity. Look at Waves. Are there any kiddies running around with the Mercury Bundle that costs as much as a used car? (Perhaps some that have it cracked, but regardless, it's not like they would have paid for it if it required hardware.)

iLok is secure enough. At least, it's secure enough to be a pain in MY ass for having plugins legally. Don't you hate that? When DRM makes the lives of people that pay for stuff hell, but people that pirate still do so just as easily? That's a whole different conversation though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
It's been said many times. Latency. If you are going to have dsp in a professional environment it needs to be realtime like Protools.
I was under the impression that Pro Tools was getting a lot of crap for not having latency compensation right now. Is that a different issue? So people are paying for hardware and not getting a basic feature that so many DAWs have now?

Anyway, there's a difference between saying "Hey, our plugins will work better if you buy our optional and highly useful DSP cards!" and "You must buy our DSP cards because we know what's best for you, and putting up with latency simply will not do."

Man, I started to make them sound like Apple there for a second.

I have plugins right now that add latency, so I can't track with them on (mainly Stillwell Audio's Event Horizon Limiter in Logic). I work around it. It's not debilitating, and they're still just as useful to make things sound better. That plugin is one of the ones I use most. Why? Because it sounds great and it's useful. The fact that it has latency issues doesn't keep me from having it on almost every session I do. And its latency also didn't keep me from paying for it.
Old 15th November 2009
  #103
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
It's been said many times. Latency. If you are going to have dsp in a professional environment it needs to be realtime like Protools.
The latency is minimal in Live mode and I'm sure they are working on chaining the plugins...it was in their survey. Protools must no be soPro if it can't handle a few samples of latency, Never bothered me in my 10 years of recording.
Old 15th November 2009
  #104
Registered User
 

UAD need to refund my money I spent on my UAD TDM plug-ins fuuck
Old 15th November 2009
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
UAD need to refund my money I spent on my UAD TDM plug-ins fuuck
Why don't you ask Avid why they pissed off UA so much that they stopped selling TDM plugins?
Old 15th November 2009
  #106
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if UAD didn't already have all their UAD2 compatible plugs already running natively on x86/x64. I don't know enough about programming for a DSP as opposed to programming for a general CPU, but it would seem a fairly modest cost from a development standpoint to write code as portable as possible during initial development, especially since they recently switched DSP platforms. They have probably been considering this a long time, and the question didn't surprise me when I got the survey. I wonder if I got that $25 coupon?
Old 15th November 2009
  #107
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_seldon View Post
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if UAD didn't already have all their UAD2 compatible plugs already running natively on x86/x64. I don't know enough about programming for a DSP as opposed to programming for a general CPU, but it would seem a fairly modest cost from a development standpoint to write code as portable as possible during initial development, especially since they recently switched DSP platforms. They have probably been considering this a long time, and the question didn't surprise me when I got the survey. I wonder if I got that $25 coupon?
i think they develop their plugins natively then port to the DSP
Old 15th November 2009
  #108
Gear Maniac
If UA went the DSP/Interface route and allowed audio to be routed THROUGH the DSP (like the Liquid Channel) and their converters , and also used their own interface to eliminate latency on FX while mixing, they would kill two birds with one stone.

UA has always been associated with some type of hardware, Native plugs would be the company's first Software only product - it gets dicey not losing customers and implementing wholesale changes during transitions.

Would current UA users have to upgrade or pay to run native plugs, would the new plugs share DSP between the cards and the system? And will native users go for the All-or-nothing license transfers on a dongle that card owners deal with when selling cards - if they're native wouldn't UA have to allow license transfers like their competitors?

UA isn't used to having to manage a lot of individual plugin transactions (sales and trades) without profit being made, and there would be a lot more bartering of their individual plugs by new and old UAD users that could leave UA out of the loop profit-wise while still dealing with the headache of managing accounts.

I definitely think they should take the plugs Native, but keep developing DSP as well. And really, if there's a dongle, make DSP an option, like an ilok OR at least a duo laptop that you can use with your notebook or desktop (with an adapter). As it is with a solo laptop and two dongles , I have one slot left for an audio interface and zero left for a control surface, so even though i like the three fx I have on one of the dongles, I might sell it and the licenses to gain a usb slot on my notebook. I don't need another non-performing dongle PIA to keep track of and juggle with usb interfaces. Hopefully in the future there will be a universal SD card type dongle that slides in a slot so you can forget about it. But until then...
Old 15th November 2009
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringItBack View Post
, Native plugs would be the company's first Software only product
I don't know if you're counting Pro Tools cards as hardware... but UA made TDM plugins a while back.
Old 15th November 2009
  #110
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code 10's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
I'm still waiting to hear a single good reason for UA to not go Native. I still haven't heard a good reason yet. Being afraid of alienating the early adopters is not a good reason. If every company was afraid to make better products due to fear of pissing off the owners of the earlier products, innovation would slow down immensely.

It's like all of the people that buy a laptop 2 months before a new version comes out, and they complain. I just want to tell those people to shut the f*** up. That laptop was good enough for them when they forked out their thousands of dollars, so it still should be. The existence of something newer does not make something obsolete. That is the same reason Pro Tools HD isn't going anywhere for the next 10 years, regardless of how good Logic and other competitors get, or regardless of whether or not Avid release a native version. It's a great, reliable product, and it will continue to do its job for many years. It's a staple and a workhorse for a reason.

UA would be crazy not to take their plugins to the mainstream. Now that everyone knows how good they sound, they can start to take over some market share by making their plugins available to everyone, including those that didn't want to buy a piece of hardware to run software (never a good idea in my opinion, but it's worked for PT).

Once again, someone give me a single good reason for UA to not go native with their plugs.

/selfish rant because I want UA plugins
Woot, some real gibberish right there.

The main reason not to go native would be cracked warez, the way UA operate right now means no chance of cracking their software = no loss in sales........ Simple.

UA plugs are in the mainstream and have been for some time, their plugs are available to everyone at any decent retailer, what makes you think their not, what, because the plugs use DSP? Weird bit of thinking there.
Old 15th November 2009
  #111
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code 10's Avatar
 

UAD going native would be a real pleaser for me as I'm currently using a G5 and two UAD 1 cards, buying a new high end Mac Pro and one or two new UAD Quad cards would cost a load of cash, so, yes please to native plugs
Old 15th November 2009
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony--> View Post
UAD going native would be a real pleaser for me as I'm currently using a G5 and two UAD 1 cards, buying a new high end Mac Pro and one or two new UAD Quad cards would cost a load of cash, so, yes please to native plugs
Same here!
if the card is kept as the dongle (plus processing power if needed`) then this shouldn't upset existing users too much and deal with the cracking anxiety.
Old 15th November 2009
  #113
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boody's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent View Post
I really don't like the idea of having paid out for a dsp card in order to run the plugs, and then have someone downloading the pugs for free, I would be seriously pissed off if that was the case
Yeah, I know the feeling... I actually paid for my bike, and now there's people who stole a bike and get to ride it for free... the world is unfair
Old 15th November 2009
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boody View Post
Yeah, I know the feeling... I actually paid for my bike, and now there's people who stole a bike and get to ride it for free... the world is unfair
I only borrowed your bike so I could copy it - I've nearly finished.
Old 15th November 2009
  #115
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boody's Avatar
 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony--> View Post
The main reason not to go native would be cracked warez, the way UA operate right now means no chance of cracking their software = no loss in sales........ Simple.
There's always loss in sales no matter what route you take. The hassle of a dsp card with latency and compatibility and the price of that card can also put people off.
I think in the end dsp cards will not survive. Maybe a whole dsp based hardware controller with ad/da would be a concept, but the cards will eventually disappear because there's no need to keep working with it's limitations. And eventually plugin prices will go down as the development and technique gets more common. There is no reason why one plugin would cost half the price of a complete DAW software program... thinking of it, it's quite insane
Old 15th November 2009
  #116
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Look at Waves. Are there any kiddies running around with the Mercury Bundle that costs as much as a used car?
And the award for this years worst example goes to..

Matt
Old 15th November 2009
  #117
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Taurean's Avatar
Question

More importantly, has anybody received their 25 bucks yet for taking the survey?

Old 15th November 2009
  #118
adl
Gear Addict
 
adl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
More importantly, has anybody received their 25 bucks yet for taking the survey?


Someone wrote to UAD about that, i quote there answer from the UAD forum:

Quote:
The survey will close on the 24th of this month.
The $25 coupon will automatically be posted to your online
account after the survey has expired.
Thanks for your patience.
Old 16th November 2009
  #119
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SKyflash34's Avatar
 

If they offer native versions via ilok count me in as well. I would love to have
the LA-2A,1176 and the Neve stuff as well.
Old 16th November 2009
  #120
Nrt
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The reason they are interested in moving native is obviously because their sales is not very well. And this rumor would totally kill their holiday sales until they officially deny the rumor. If they do not, I'm sure we will see native UAD in 2010.

Their management must had been unconscious doing the survey right before the holiday season.

I'm not really sure if it' a good idea to take a risk to moving into iLok bandwagon, since I believe iLok would be cracked sooner or later. If UAD is cracked, UAD will have to move forward to the other nasty marketing direction such as WUP to keep the money flow. It will be a disaster for everyone, including UAD, users and their partners. If I were their stock holder, I would sell their stock as soon as they release the native. Simply too risky.
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