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Blasts of white noise in logic 9 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 15th October 2010
  #211
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I've always used 512 until a few months ago, now I'm on 1024 because I don't really need lower latency especially when there's a quick low latency button in the transport if needed.
Old 15th October 2010
  #212
TNM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
I've always used 512 until a few months ago, now I'm on 1024 because I don't really need lower latency especially when there's a quick low latency button in the transport if needed.

huh? that low latency button is to bypass effects which introduce latency above a certain threshold determined in preferences... it's not to make your sound card latency lower.
Old 15th October 2010
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
I've always used 512 until a few months ago, now I'm on 1024 because I don't really need lower latency especially when there's a quick low latency button in the transport if needed.
Well in that case, it doesn't sound like you do much tracking in Logic. Probably explains why you have never seen/heard the issue. Makes sense right? You don't track often in Logic, hence you don't see an issue that is related to that.

As mentioned before low latency mode does not change your buffer latency. All it does is disable your plug ins. I run a buffer of 128, can't go any higher or people will complain about latency. Wish I could run lower but just know that will open up a can of worms.
Old 15th October 2010
  #214
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I mainly just record MIDI and when I turn on LL mode, that takes care of things for me. For audio, I usually only record my Tetra, but I record the audio from recorded MIDI (not that it really matters).
Old 15th October 2010
  #215
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Anyone experiencing this after 9.1.2 update? I ask this because I've never experienced it.
Old 15th October 2010
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
Anyone experiencing this after 9.1.2 update? I ask this because I've never experienced it.

Not going to update here for a bit. One of the rigs is a quad mac pro, so going to wait for the dust to settle a bit.

Would be curious also. Guess it will take some time for reports to start rolling in. Most people I know are not going to update for awhile. Also the noise is usually not a everyday "issue," more sporadic.
Old 15th October 2010
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
I mainly just record MIDI and when I turn on LL mode, that takes care of things for me. For audio, I usually only record my Tetra, but I record the audio from recorded MIDI (not that it really matters).
Umm it matters because you were commenting on an issue that happens during tracking audio.
Old 15th October 2010
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Not going to update here for a bit. One of the rigs is a quad mac pro, so going to wait for the dust to settle a bit.

Would be curious also. Guess it will take some time for reports to start rolling in. Most people I know are not going to update for awhile. Also the noise is usually not a everyday "issue," more sporadic.
The issue of HT has been solved already. Check the Logic 9.1.2 thread.

I understand that. Thing is I've been using Logic for almost 15 years through dozens of computers and never experienced that. Not saying it doesn't happen. It clearly does. I just think it's being somewhat hyped...
Old 15th October 2010
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
The issue of HT has been solved already. Check the Logic 9.1.2 thread.

I understand that. Thing is I've been using Logic for almost 15 years through dozens of computers and never experienced that. Not saying it doesn't happen. It clearly does. I just think it's being somewhat hyped...
Hmm, like Dick says, it happens when you are tracking audio intensively. You may not be, are you?
Old 15th October 2010
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
The issue of HT has been solved already. Check the Logic 9.1.2 thread.

I understand that. Thing is I've been using Logic for almost 15 years through dozens of computers and never experienced that. Not saying it doesn't happen. It clearly does. I just think it's being somewhat hyped...
The workaround isn't perfect. If you look into it more. Can also cause major issues as much as it helps. If you are running 3rd party plugs I wouldn't trust it. Looking into it but don't have high hopes. Got to keep in mind some of us are not allowed to have our computers down for even one unscheduled day. If I am going to have a rig out of commission it is usually planned weeks to months in advance. Shoot I start getting into trouble if a rig is down for 5 mins. Also friends of mine are reporting issues with the update besides the hyper-threading issue. I value and trust their opinion. Also none of the "fixes" I cared about made the list. Might be there but doubt it.

Not as long as you, but Logic user of 12 years here and I have seen it tons, unfortunately ha. It's been there since version 8.0. When you say "hyped," you mean doesn't happen often, I agree. As stated it happens 3-5 times a year per rig for me, very rough estimate. At the same point imagine having it happen when recording vocals for (insert household singers name). Those are not fun sessions and pretty much ruins most hope for finishing what you were doing.
Old 15th October 2010
  #221
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Blasts of white noise in logic 9

I've recorded a lot of albums. This year I've been mixing more than recording. But when I record I do it intensively. Again I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, just that it doesn't happen to everyone as some would like us to think.
Old 16th October 2010
  #222
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Lucky day! Ha just had my first burst in awhile, tracking vocals. Ha it's like by talking about it I summoned the white burst demon.
Old 16th October 2010
  #223
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Sorry
Old 16th October 2010
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Lucky day! Ha just had my first burst in awhile, tracking vocals. Ha it's like by talking about it I summoned the white burst demon.
So, you get in the cans when recording or just on playback after recording? Seems ridiculous... are you using something to protect the singer?
Old 16th October 2010
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
So, you get in the cans when recording or just on playback after recording? Seems ridiculous... are you using something to protect the singer?
Have seen it go straight to the cans at the end of a take for a split sec. But this time it was at the end of a take and was caught before playback, which is usually what I see happen. so basically just edited it out. The really weird thing is it seems like it happens always at the end of a take.


Could be wrong, but think it might be an issue with audio file being "corrupted" by Logic. Just how it is always at the end of a take and how usually it shows after the take is done.

There really isn't a way to "protect" anyone for us, because of work flow. The whole limiter trick wouldn't work for us. We are all aware of the issue so we just try to keep a look out for it.
Old 16th October 2010
  #226
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I had this happen twice within a 10 minute period yesterday. I was tracking a single vocal with no efx on the track. both time the soundwave showed as corrupted and it was at the very end of the audio file.

I think the problem has always occurred in the same way for me. I hit stop on the recording and then on playback the blast is visible at the end of the audio file. It always happens at the very end of the file.

Is this true for everyone else?

These are the plug-ins I was using: Uad LA2A and LA3A compressors, stock logic eq, echoboy, stylus rmx, csr reverb, ni maschine 1.51, kontakt 4 and exs24 instances. Logic 9.1.1, 8gb ram , Mac pro quad 2.66, 10.5.8. 3 internal sata drives only.

Recoding at 44.1, 24bit, aiff.

I am using a DM3200 in firewire mode as my audio interface.

I was recording a single mono input, with the track muted. I believe the blast did not occur until I played back the take. No plug-ins on the input track while tracking. My cpu is showing around 5% and hard disk is showing about 5% as well, with spikes on playback start.


I am in the habit of muting the input during tracking and watching the soundwave to avoid getting blasted. All of my work is in logic so it would be very difficult for me to switch DAW's at this point in time.

Any other ideas in terms of a safety that we could implement to avoid ear damage?
Old 16th October 2010
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Lucky day! Ha just had my first burst in awhile, tracking vocals. Ha it's like by talking about it I summoned the white burst demon.

What plug-ins were you running at the time?
Old 16th October 2010
  #228
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What file format(s) and recording samplerates/bitdepths etc? Ie, BWav/Wav/AIFF, 24bit(assumed for most imo), 44.1/48/96khz etc? Was the affected channel the 'live input mode' track (selected) or were you multitrack recording and this was track N (or burst happened on tracks X & Y & Z etc).

For instance: no plugins while tracking except for PSP Limiter on the master output bus, 44.1khz/24bit/AIFF, 2nd internal drive (80% free) on selected track (live input mode), occurerd at end of track. 2008 Mac Pro, 16GB ram, 30% Logic cpu usage no cores hitting red, 20% disk usage approx etc etc.

I realize a lot of people are here to vent, and since I've never had this occur it's hard for me to contribute to that side of the conversation. But I think some kind of guidelines to cross reference between affected incidents would help this thread be useful. The main thing I see right now is that were I to try to collect info from this thread I'd have to read the thing in entirety just to collect info for a few people (most spread stuff out across all posts).

So what info did I neglect that should be included?

Also some discussion on limiting techniques for the headphone & studo monitoring chains seems warranted.
Old 16th October 2010
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
I had this happen twice within a 10 minute period yesterday. I was tracking a single vocal with no efx on the track. both time the soundwave showed as corrupted and it was at the very end of the audio file.

I think the problem has always occurred in the same way for me. I hit stop on the recording and then on playback the blast is visible at the end of the audio file. It always happens at the very end of the file.

Is this true for everyone else?

These are the plug-ins I was using: Uad LA2A and LA3A compressors, stock logic eq, echoboy, stylus rmx, ni maschine 1.51, kontakt 4 and exs24 instances. Logic 9.1.1, 8gb ram , Mac pro quad 2.66, 10.5.8. 3 internal sata drives only.

I am using a DM3200 in firewire mode as my audio interface.


I am in the habit of muting the input during tracking and watching the soundwave to avoid getting blasted. All of my work is in logic so it would be very difficult for me to switch DAW's at this point in time.

Any other ideas in terms of a safety that we could implement to avoid ear damage?
If you are tracking, how can you mute the input? Do you mean, you mute output so you can't hear the background tracks nor your voice in the cans?
Old 16th October 2010
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
What file format(s) and recording samplerates/bitdepths etc? Ie, BWav/Wav/AIFF, 24bit(assumed for most imo), 44.1/48/96khz etc? Was the affected channel the 'live input mode' track (selected) or were you multitrack recording and this was track N (or burst happened on tracks X & Y & Z etc).

For instance: no plugins while tracking except for PSP Limiter on the master output bus, 44.1khz/24bit/AIFF, 2nd internal drive (80% free) on selected track (live input mode), occurerd at end of track. 2008 Mac Pro, 16GB ram, 30% Logic cpu usage no cores hitting red, 20% disk usage approx etc etc.

I realize a lot of people are here to vent, and since I've never had this occur it's hard for me to contribute to that side of the conversation. But I think some kind of guidelines to cross reference between affected incidents would help this thread be useful. The main thing I see right now is that were I to try to collect info from this thread I'd have to read the thing in entirety just to collect info for a few people (most spread stuff out across all posts).

So what info did I neglect that should be included?

Also some discussion on limiting techniques for the headphone & studo monitoring chains seems warranted.
Hey Valis,
I think you might be fairly code savvy. Maybe we can create a list at the top of this thread with pertinent info that people can report with.
1)computer/o.s./ram
2)logic version
3)sample rate/ bit/ buffer
4)instanced plug-ins
5)installed plug-ins
6)hard drive configuration
7)cpu and hd usage at time of incident

Does that cover everything?

Also looking at my console logs, I see csr referenced a bunch of times and also a usb device that is constantly being looked for. Other than that, Nothing is really listed.
Old 16th October 2010
  #231
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I don't really have the time to personally track all of this info myself (thankfully forums don't work that way anyway.) But since I'm interested in this issue though I haven't experienced it *yet*, I'm concerned about it's potential and think it's a good idea to create at least some kind of basis for data related to the issue (some kind of metrics that can at least begin to track differences.)

I think it's obvious that if anyone linked Apple to this thread in the hopes of helping fix this issue they'd find little besides anecdotal info (meaning to extract any info they'd have to spend time wading through here.) For instance the recent allegation (not that it's incorrect) that it often appears at the *end* of files for some, while it occupied the entire file for others--is rather interesting. But without more data it's just anecdotal info still (problems with disk caching? etc?)

I'm not deep on Xcode actually (or objective C) but I was hanging out on BBS's during the MASM/TASM era and made it up through Borland & MSC related tools and then C++, javascript/java/c# etc. So while I'm not an App. developer currently I at least have some vague notion that there's more than 'magic' under the hood and that bugs unfortunately aren't always 1:1 related to symptoms the end user experiences either, which can make it hard to track down. But having been involved in a few hardware/software ventures in the past and done a bit of beta reporting here & there, i'm of the opinion that we can improve this thread with only a little bit of work to establish some guidelines for posting up 'reports'....

I do like the addition of cross referencing to the console to see what appears (might help to check the root/system level to see all events) and your list matches what I thought of so far, though I'm sure there's more than can be added.
Old 16th October 2010
  #232
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Valis, I didn't mean for you to manage it. I just thought you might have further input on the creation of a checklist for people reporting in this thread. I could just paste the checklist from my previous post as-is if that seems like it covers appropriate bases. Maybe add console messages as another item...
Old 16th October 2010
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
Valis, I didn't mean for you to manage it. I just thought you might have further input on the creation of a checklist for people reporting in this thread. I could just paste the checklist from my previous post as-is if that seems like it covers appropriate bases. Maybe add console messages as another item...
Oh I didn't misunderstand you, sorry! Just early morning ranting, and yes I'm all for giving my input (obviously as I tend to err on the verbose side imo!)
Old 17th October 2010
  #234
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Not sure if it was brought up before, but what for anyone that's having this problem what size processor buffer range are you using in the audio preferences of Logic? I've never had this problem and I've also always used a large processor buffer range setting.
Old 17th October 2010
  #235
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I'll post specs. This is the machine that just had it happen the other day. Will post more as I see more rigs do it again. Pretty sure that all have done it at one point or another. This way if I post it as I see it I will be for sure. Also few specs will be missing info. Not in the studio today so will add to it as I get a chance.

1. (think 2.66 but will check) 2x3 Quad Core Intel Xeon, OS 10.6.4, Lots of Ram but will have to check for sure think 16 gigs

2. 9.1.1

3. 44/24 Buffer 128

4. Battery, EXS, Stylus, Sylenth, Vanguard, Predator, Logic Comp, Space Designer, Guitar Rig via Plogue Play and Superior Drummer (sure there is more but will have to double check the exact session)

5. Ha you name it, it is probably installed. At least with Synths and VIs. Non VI's, Waves Mercury, Soundtoys bundle, Ozone, Trash. Also very regularly updated, everything legit copies. I won't touch a rig with warez on it, strict rule of mine.

6. 3 Internal SATA Drives. 500 gig Mac Drive, 500 gig Audio Drive (Half Full) this is the recorded to drive. 2 TB Sample Drive

7. Have no idea was too busy keeping the session going. Like normal, CPU and HD usage probably pretty low. This rig never seems to be taxed too often. Probably pushing RAM limit in 32 bit, ha I mean how can you do a session in 9.1.1 and not hit the RAM limit.

8. Symphony 32. With Rosetta 800, DA 16x, clocked internally. Rosetta 800 receiving WC from DA 16x. Have a Big Ben that we clock from when syncing more then one rig and from time to time. But have found Logic/symphony with external sync not the most reliable when jumping around to different sample rates.

If I missed anything let me know. I added an "8" for interface info. Also will double check some stuff like amount of RAM.
Old 17th October 2010
  #236
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What's your 'Processor Buffer Range' setting at?
Old 17th October 2010
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
Not sure if it was brought up before, but what for anyone that's having this problem what size processor buffer range are you using in the audio preferences of Logic? I've never had this problem and I've also always used a large processor buffer range setting.

From my understanding, yes generally people having this issue will be running a low buffer rate. The reason is that it happens obviously when tracking audio. Hence people will be running a lower buffer rate. Pretty much if you go above 128, latency will be too much to track.

EDIT:

Ha sorry again. Read too quick. I see buffer and automatically think audio. Will check but pretty sure medium, that's default right?
Old 17th October 2010
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
What's your 'Processor Buffer Range' setting at?

Sorry, don't follow you mean audio buffer? 128 as put in post


Edit:
Sorry, got you now. Pretty sure medium but will have to double check
Old 17th October 2010
  #239
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Sorry, meant 'Process Buffer Range'.

Old 17th October 2010
  #240
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Ha yep, before I saw your photo, corrected above. Sorry my mistake.

Also to add:

Rewire Mode : Live Mode, think is what they call it. Don't have Logic in front of me right now.

Scrub Speed and Response: Normal
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