The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Blasts of white noise in logic 9 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 10th October 2010
  #181
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
In all my years of working with Logic I've never experienced this.
I have not experienced it after a year and half with Logic 8. I only experienced this on Logic 9. What version of Logic are you running?
Old 10th October 2010
  #182
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 

I'm running Pro 9. I've had it running on three different Macs so far.
Old 11th October 2010
  #183
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Then there's some constant in your configuration across all 3 macs, aside from just Logic. Audio interface, plugin or possibly even a preference/setting combination that you did on all 3...
Old 11th October 2010
  #184
Lives for gear
 
phas3d's Avatar
 

I've worked with dozens of Macs in my 14 years of Logic. Not even once I've experienced this. Nor have the tenths of Logic Power Users I know. First time I've learnt this was here. I'm sure people experience this. Just wonder how many o through it...
Old 11th October 2010
  #185
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
I'm running Pro 9. I've had it running on three different Macs so far.
Hmm. I deleted my partition where I was running boot camp and deleted a lot of unnecassary stuff and todays tracking session went very smooth. I am on a 2008 Mac Pro OSX 10.5.8 with 8 gigs of ram. What system/ram and OS's are you on? I'll keep you guys posted if it happens again.
Old 11th October 2010
  #186
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 

I'm currently running a 2010 MBP i5 2.4 Ghz with 8 GB of RAM. My previous machines where a 2007 MBP with 2 GB of RAM and a first gen Mac Pro with 5 GB of RAM.
Old 11th October 2010
  #187
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
So let's talk audio interface, harddrive working methods (external/internal/how many) and plugins now...

It's also possible that it's some background process, menubar app or cron job running and interrupting processing.
Old 11th October 2010
  #188
Lives for gear
 
phas3d's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
So let's talk audio interface, harddrive working methods (external/internal/how many) and plugins now...

It's also possible that it's some background process, menubar app or cron job running and interrupting processing.
I've always used a 2nd HD for audio (internal in Mac Pros and external in IMacs and MBP). I've used a lot of audio interfaces, ranging from RME, Motu, Apogee, SSL and Digidesign. Plug-ins are also hard to pinpoint, since I do a lot of work in clients computers and there are so many plug-ins in the equation. I've also used all sorts of macs and even PC's ranging from P3 PC's and Quadra Macs to the newest Mac Pros. I guess it's a hard task to pinpoint the source of this issue.
Old 11th October 2010
  #189
Lives for gear
 

I just started seeing a couple of these. It is real.

I monitor straight analog so no white noise bursts ever got to the musicians. But I saw them near the end of takes I was doing as a huge dark rectangle of waveform.

After hearing what that sounded like (blast of white noise) I edit them out before playback. And my monitoring gain structure is such that they won't blow anything. But obviously this would have to be the first bug Apple needs to fix.

It's disappointing there seems to be no official Apple statements on anything at all, unless Steve is the one talking. I hope they will have reps at AES we can talk to about these things.

My machine is pretty damn vanilla, latest of everything other than the Machine itself which is a 2.6GHz 8GB Mac Pro 1,1. Internal drives for OS, samples, and audio data all separate 500GB Westies. Running M-Audio 2626 on external sync with a 256 buffer...1 UAD-2 Duo and 1 UAD-1's...everything is hunky dory although I think the Lexicon PCM96 driver screwed with my boot loader a touch. Doubt that has any relation to this, and I uninstalled it, it just means I have to boot up with the option key down since I am working off a second partition of my boot drive.

They just have an intermittent bug and they have to isolate it and fix it. These bugs can be incredibly difficult to reproduce and nail. A lot of tail chasing can go on.

It could be drives went to sleep problem? Energy Star goes nova?
Old 11th October 2010
  #190
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
I've always used a 2nd HD for audio (internal in Mac Pros and external in IMacs and MBP). I've used a lot of audio interfaces, ranging from RME, Motu, Apogee, SSL and Digidesign. Plug-ins are also hard to pinpoint, since I do a lot of work in clients computers and there are so many plug-ins in the equation. I've also used all sorts of macs and even PC's ranging from P3 PC's and Quadra Macs to the newest Mac Pros. I guess it's a hard task to pinpoint the source of this issue.
Right but my point several pages back is that in order to cross reference some of this to track things down, some data will have to be posted. Otherwise we just sit here going for for endless post counts of "happened to me!" "me too!" "not me!" "never here!" etc hoping Apple is somehow omniscient?

But yes if this is some obscure combination of settings or runtime apps it may take time & effort to correlate all the necessary data...
Old 12th October 2010
  #191
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
If it isn't just Logic, how come Cubase, Live, or PT users don't have a long thread like this one?
There is a thread about PT doing it at the DUC.
Old 13th October 2010
  #192
Gear Maniac
 
bakerman's Avatar
 

Today it unleashed for first time in a few months on playback of recorded audio. No drive warning or block waveform in arrange page.

Zero change in my setup in this time.
Old 13th October 2010
  #193
Gear Addict
I don't get it. I just don't get it... this is a pro app? Music apps should all have safety features against this type of thing.
Old 13th October 2010
  #194
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerman View Post
Today it unleashed for first time in a few months on playback of recorded audio. No drive warning or block waveform in arrange page.

Zero change in my setup in this time.
What are you doing to minimize dangerous levels with this bug? Are you now going to change DAW?
Old 14th October 2010
  #195
Gear Maniac
 
bakerman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
What are you doing to minimize dangerous levels with this bug? Are you now going to change DAW?
I monitor fairly low and have a comp on the master. As for DAW change, yes - more than likely going PT HD.
Old 14th October 2010
  #196
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerman View Post
Today it unleashed for first time in a few months on playback of recorded audio. No drive warning or block waveform in arrange page.

Zero change in my setup in this time.
Try what I did. So far I've been smooth sailing. I deleted my windows partition so the drive has only one large partition now. I also deleted every single unnecassary program on the drive and moved as much as I could to a second hard drive. But I have to say I think if it happens even one more time its pro tools for me.
Old 14th October 2010
  #197
Gear Addict
 

I maintain multiple Logic rigs. They are Mac pros and macbook pros. Most have different interfaces, some symphony, some duet, some various motu interfaces. All are clean builds, at least once a year, usually 2-3 times a year. Basically if anything is changed, os, interface, hd, they are clean installed and updated before use. It is part of my job, been doing it for many many years. All these rigs will have the white blast happen at one time or another.

Even once ran a rig with no extra plugs, blast showed up. I have tried anything I can to find a pattern. The only thing in common I have found is Logic. I am open to this might be something besides logic, at the same time I could not tell you one thing all the rigs I maintain have in common, except Logic.
Old 14th October 2010
  #198
Gear Addict
If you say that the white noise is inevitable, how come so many have never experienced at all?

Given all this extremely disappointing news, I will have to forgo Logic and ahead with Cubase on bootcamp, as PT is not midi orientated enough for me. I work with mostly midi arrangements.
I'm not experienced enough to understand how a limiter solution could protect me against the noise blasts, nor do I know how to set it up correctly to attenuate the noise blasts that may occur. What db level would I expect to receive on a blast with the limiter on?
Old 14th October 2010
  #199
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
I maintain multiple Logic rigs. They are Mac pros and macbook pros. Most have different interfaces, some symphony, some duet, some various motu interfaces. All are clean builds, at least once a year, usually 2-3 times a year. Basically if anything is changed, os, interface, hd, they are clean installed and updated before use. It is part of my job, been doing it for many many years. All these rigs will have the white blast happen at one time or another.

Even once ran a rig with no extra plugs, blast showed up. I have tried anything I can to find a pattern. The only thing in common I have found is Logic. I am open to this might be something besides logic, at the same time I could not tell you one thing all the rigs I maintain have in common, except Logic.
What steps do you take to protect yourself? Why would any pro continue to use something that he knows has such a fatal flaw?
Old 14th October 2010
  #200
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
If you say that the white noise is inevitable, how come so many have never experienced at all?

Given all this extremely disappointing news, I will have to forgo Logic and ahead with Cubase on bootcamp, as PT is not midi orientated enough for me. I work with mostly midi arrangements.
I'm not experienced enough to understand how a limiter solution could protect me against the noise blasts, nor do I know how to set it up correctly to attenuate the noise blasts that may occur. What db level would I expect to receive on a blast with the limiter on?
I wish I had an answer to your first question, but I don't. This is why this issue completely baffles me. I don't have it happen much. That I know of would say once every 3-4 months, but I am not always around when the rigs are being used.

My best guess would be it has to do with work flow. When I am around Logic being used, normally we are tracking audio. Lots of takes and punch ins. So with this much audio recording, 5-7 days a week, 9-20 hours a day and the issue only shows up once every 3-4 months. Also usually if you don't replay over the effected audio region, you don't hear it. So say it wasn't a "keeper" take you just record over it and never notice it. Basically what I am getting at is it happens so rarely, maybe just we are a good target to see it more often, then others.

If you are using Logic for mostly midi, personally I wouldn't let this be your deciding factor. At the same point all daws out there will work, so why deal with this.
Old 14th October 2010
  #201
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
What steps do you take to protect yourself? Why would any pro continue to use something that he knows has such a fatal flaw?

We track a lot. Most of the time recording is done in PTHD. If we are working on a production, we don't touch Logic and wouldn't even consider it for many reasons. At the same point my boss enjoys writing in Logic. Is very comfortable with it. Many times we get lazy and record ideas in Logic before switching to PT and that is when we see the issue or for example adding vocals to a writing idea.

I find the best way to protect yourself is pay attention to waves, looking for blocks.

Trust me I am giving my full effort to get approval to leave Logic in the dust, ha but not really because of this issue. At the same point there is a couple features that are very important to the writing process for us, so we stay for now.
Old 14th October 2010
  #202
Lives for gear
 

It seems fairly clear that this is an apple problem, either due to a logic or the mac o.s. People are getting this on clean, stock logic installs on various systems. Apple need to do some sort of active level monitoring to kill sonic blasts before they happen.
Old 14th October 2010
  #203
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
We track a lot. Most of the time recording is done in PTHD. If we are working on a production, we don't touch Logic and wouldn't even consider it for many reasons. At the same point my boss enjoys writing in Logic. Is very comfortable with it. Many times we get lazy and record ideas in Logic before switching to PT and that is when we see the issue or for example adding vocals to a writing idea.

I find the best way to protect yourself is pay attention to waves, looking for blocks.

Trust me I am giving my full effort to get approval to leave Logic in the dust, ha but not really because of this issue. At the same point there is a couple features that are very important to the writing process for us, so we stay for now.
Because of which issue, may I ask? Oh, and which program would you like to replace Logic with, besides PT?
Old 14th October 2010
  #204
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
I maintain multiple Logic rigs. They are Mac pros and macbook pros. Most have different interfaces, some symphony, some duet, some various motu interfaces. All are clean builds, at least once a year, usually 2-3 times a year. Basically if anything is changed, os, interface, hd, they are clean installed and updated before use. It is part of my job, been doing it for many many years. All these rigs will have the white blast happen at one time or another.

Even once ran a rig with no extra plugs, blast showed up. I have tried anything I can to find a pattern. The only thing in common I have found is Logic. I am open to this might be something besides logic, at the same time I could not tell you one thing all the rigs I maintain have in common, except Logic.
Oh this is great news. I can't wait to get blasted again. Well let the countdown begin to reading the Pro Tools Manual.
Old 14th October 2010
  #205
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
I'm currently running a 2010 MBP i5 2.4 Ghz with 8 GB of RAM. My previous machines where a 2007 MBP with 2 GB of RAM and a first gen Mac Pro with 5 GB of RAM.
What interface?
Old 15th October 2010
  #206
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
Because of which issue, may I ask? Oh, and which program would you like to replace Logic with, besides PT?
Sorry I wrote a longer response last night, but felt it was too off topic. Basically it's a combination of issues also the culture that I feel that is going on at apple these days, doesn't give me much confidence. For example, I was very excited about the update today, but seems people are already having major issues with it, ie issues that should be noticed before releasing.

Another DAW besides PT? Hmm sorry no help on this. I was hoping PT native would be my solution I am looking for. Unfortunately I deal with many rigs that need to be able to run similar software. So the PT native PCI card is a no go with laptops. If the first reports of new 9.1.2 are true bet I will have to figure something out sooner then later.
Old 15th October 2010
  #207
Here for the gear
 

Just experienced the white noise blast for the first time.
100% repeatable on my system.
------------------------------------
(Copied from post I made on the Apple Logic forums earlier)

Just got the blast of white noise - luckily my Duet was set to headphone out and not my monitors! And I didn't have my headphones on!

Problem seems to be 100% repeatable on my system:

MacPro 8 core 2008
6GB Ram
Logic Pro 9.1.2 (in 64 bit mode)

Basically I updated to 9.1.2 this morning to try out the REX fix in 64 bit mode.
Clicked on a REX file in Logics browser and pressed the spacebar to preview it.
Got the following message: "Couldn't load the REX Shared Library because it is too old. Please update it then try again."

Clicked the Ok button and boom, the output from Logic overloads with white noise.
This happens on a brand new project i.e. loading the default empty project. Only one track of audio with no plugins.

So after the first blast I inserted a limiter on the output, turned the Duets output to zero & tried again. Blast of white noise everytime I get the REX error message.
My REX shared library was downloaded directly from the Propellerheads website last week - version 1.6

Not good....

I have to say that this is the only time I've encountered this problem - it's never happened to me while recording audio.
---------------------------------------
Old 15th October 2010
  #208
Lives for gear
 
djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
What interface?
MOTU Ultralite (first gen).
Old 15th October 2010
  #209
Lives for gear
 

Is the limiter really effective in such cases? And, if yes, which settings do you use?

I guess it is not a good choice for those that need to play virtual instruments anyway
Old 15th October 2010
  #210
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
MOTU Ultralite (first gen).
Hmm I'm using the apogee symphony system. I wonder if the interface has anything to do with it since apparently you are not getting any noise blasts on the motu. Also I'm working at a 32 buffer size. What buffer size are you working at?
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
turk sanchez / Music Computers
2
Insomniaclown / Music Computers
1
gamrecords / So much gear, so little time
4
zirkdextron / Music Computers
5

Forum Jump
Forum Jump