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Blasts of white noise in logic 9 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 8th September 2010
  #121
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api2500's Avatar
Calm down!

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.

I the studio whilst tracking in Logic (through an Audient ASP) I haven't ever come across it.

I have a friend running an iMac and again no problems at all.

I personally haven't had it happen to me. But I haven't discounted the fact that people have. But is it really going to swing your DAW choice? Especially if a few others have also experienced this in other DAWs.
Old 8th September 2010
  #122
Gear Addict
Is there some way of preventing the noise from getting to your speakers with a limiter (hardware or software) or something like that?
Old 8th September 2010
  #123
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It's horrible enough to discourage people from using Logic in high track count + lots of plugin situations.
I use a limiter on the mix buss to raise the level, setting the threshold just above the drum transients, to protect my hearing. It works well; if the bug happens (it's happened to me a dozen times in the last 2 years or so), it's certainly scary and obnoxious, but I won't lose my hearing since it can't go past 0dBFS anyway, so if you're close to that level, the sound is not that loud.
Old 8th September 2010
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
Calm down!

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.

I the studio whilst tracking in Logic (through an Audient ASP) I haven't ever come across it.

I have a friend running an iMac and again no problems at all.

I personally haven't had it happen to me. But I haven't discounted the fact that people have. But is it really going to swing your DAW choice? Especially if a few others have also experienced this in other DAWs.
Ha don't know how I could be much calmer with my response, but will try. You just seemed very argumentative in your responses. My apologies in advance if this was not your motive, how's that for calm.

My point was that you did not seem, in this thread, to be trying to contribute but just start a fight or being a fanboy to the extreme. I might of read too much into your posts.

Glad you and your buddy are not having issues, guessing it has more to do with workflow then anything. You never answered my questions about what you use Logic for, ie do you do full tracking of a band often? Nothing wrong if you don't but honestly I think this has a lot to do with the issue. Also if you do not do this often, it could explain why you have never seen it. Since the issue happens so infrequently for most.

I do agree this is not an issue that I would choose my DAW on. There are plenty of other reasons I would choose not to use Logic, if I did not have to for work.

Everyone else, do you guys see the issue more on heavy audio projects? Or is there guys having issues with just a couple of tracks of audio? Like stated before I work on pop sessions that are mostly programing and a few tracks of audio, never seen the issue. I also work on many more "rock/band" oriented projects and this seems to be where the issue pops up. But could just be my experience since the "bug" pops up so infrequently for me.
Old 8th September 2010
  #125
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
It's horrible enough to discourage people from using Logic in high track count + lots of plugin situations.
I use a limiter on the mix buss to raise the level, setting the threshold just above the drum transients, to protect my hearing. It works well; if the bug happens (it's happened to me a dozen times in the last 2 years or so), it's certainly scary and obnoxious, but I won't lose my hearing since it can't go past 0dBFS anyway, so if you're close to that level, the sound is not that loud.
Defiantly not a bad idea. Just not really feasible in a session with large/crazy cue mixes going on. Also would think the latency of most limiters would be too much to record into, but probably depends on the limiter.
Old 8th September 2010
  #126
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robstercraw's Avatar
 

Ive been using Logic for almost a year. I just went to 9.1.1. I have this problem about once a week. And it seems to be pretty random for me. I do a lot of bands with lots of tracks and plugs, but also have some pretty simple hip hop things that have had this problem. It happened to me about 4 or 5 times in one rap session the other day. They brought a stereo beat and had maybe 10 tracks of vocals. It kept happening over and over. But sometimes I can have 40 tracks with all kinds of edits and plugs, do some overdubs in that and no problems. Luckily the noise is not audible till playback for me. And its very obvious what it is by seeing it, so I never play it back and blow anyones ears. Ive reinstalled, thrown out prefs, changed buffer size, used no plugs while recording, tried to keep very minimal track counts, etc... and it still happens.
Old 8th September 2010
  #127
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bakerman's Avatar
 

try working from a partitioned drive no larger than 70GB. This has been the saving grace so far. Should it happen one more time, I will be switching DAW's - my mind is already made up.
Old 8th September 2010
  #128
Gear Head
 

I agree that this thread needs to remain active and we must make others aware of how serious and widespread an issue this really is.

To elaborate on my previous post on page 4, i've been a Logic user for over 2.5 years. I have experienced this bug at least a dozen times in that period, probably more, but sometimes going a month or 2 without any issues at all, and that has been across many different hardware & software configurations, i.e. various combinations of the following:

- MacBook Pro C2D 2.4GHz 2008
- MacBook Pro i7 2.8GHz 2010
- Apogee Duet (direct, or daisy-chained)
- M-Audio ProFire 2626 (direct, or daisy-chained)
- M-Ausio ProFire 610
- Onboard sound cards
- Logic Pro 8 (and multiple sub-versions)
- Logic Pro 9 (and multiple sub-versions)
- Various Internal HDDs (250GB/7200RPM, 500GB/5400RPM, 500GB/7200RPM)
- WD MyBook FW400 HDD (direct, or daisy-chained)
- WD MyStudio FW800 HDD (direct, or daisy-chained)
- Innumerable combinations of various software settings and preferences (buffer size, process buffer range, sample rate)
- Some sessions have been 100% Logic-bundled standard AU plugins, while others have had third party plugins from Waves, Softube and IK.

There are probably more variables than i can think of at the moment, but this list demonstrates just how unpredictable and random this bugs appears to be in my experience. I've noticed no correlation between certain configurations and likelihood of the white noise bug.

I will also offer that i have never experienced the same bug in any software other than Logic Pro. For the record, i also use Pro Tools 8, and Ableton Live.
Old 8th September 2010
  #129
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Defiantly not a bad idea. Just not really feasible in a session with large/crazy cue mixes going on. Also would think the latency of most limiters would be too much to record into, but probably depends on the limiter.
I use the bog standard logic limiter, it's very CPU friendly and it has a "no latency" mode. It doesn't sound very good, but you're not actually hitting it, so it doesn't sound like anything!
You can definitely put one on every headphone mix on an intel machine without overloading anything. You just need to use the input gain as the main fader to raise it close to 0dBFS, and then trim on the headphone output.
You set the threshold just above the loudest part in the song. In the worst case scenario, if the singer gets a slightly limited drum track, what's the problem?

I know it's not perfect, but it does work for me. I had the bug it on a drum track recording, and the drummer was rather pissed off, but definitely not hurt.
This doesn't work easily in an analog hybrid mixing desk situation because 0dBFS is like +18dB above nominal level. With input trimming it can be done, it's just a bit of a pain. IME it works quite well on ITB projects.
I hope it helps.
Old 8th September 2010
  #130
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api2500's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowood101 View Post
Ha don't know how I could be much calmer with my response, but will try. You just seemed very argumentative in your responses. My apologies in advance if this was not your motive, how's that for calm.

My point was that you did not seem, in this thread, to be trying to contribute but just start a fight or being a fanboy to the extreme. I might of read too much into your posts.

Glad you and your buddy are not having issues, guessing it has more to do with workflow then anything. You never answered my questions about what you use Logic for, ie do you do full tracking of a band often? Nothing wrong if you don't but honestly I think this has a lot to do with the issue. Also if you do not do this often, it could explain why you have never seen it. Since the issue happens so infrequently for most.

I do agree this is not an issue that I would choose my DAW on. There are plenty of other reasons I would choose not to use Logic, if I did not have to for work.

Everyone else, do you guys see the issue more on heavy audio projects? Or is there guys having issues with just a couple of tracks of audio? Like stated before I work on pop sessions that are mostly programing and a few tracks of audio, never seen the issue. I also work on many more "rock/band" oriented projects and this seems to be where the issue pops up. But could just be my experience since the "bug" pops up so infrequently for me.
Scratch full band recording through a Pro 40 for nearly every song I do. I do apologies that I haven't experienced it yet. I take it your suggesting I brace myself. I will.
Old 8th September 2010
  #131
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
I use the bog standard logic limiter, it's very CPU friendly and it has a "no latency" mode. It doesn't sound very good, but you're not actually hitting it, so it doesn't sound like anything!
You can definitely put one on every headphone mix on an intel machine without overloading anything. You just need to use the input gain as the main fader to raise it close to 0dBFS, and then trim on the headphone output.
You set the threshold just above the loudest part in the song. In the worst case scenario, if the singer gets a slightly limited drum track, what's the problem?

I know it's not perfect, but it does work for me. I had the bug it on a drum track recording, and the drummer was rather pissed off, but definitely not hurt.
This doesn't work easily in an analog hybrid mixing desk situation because 0dBFS is like +18dB above nominal level. With input trimming it can be done, it's just a bit of a pain. IME it works quite well on ITB projects.
I hope it helps.
Sorry newbie question: are you compressing the dynamic range of the final mixdown using this limiter technique? Also, before recording the track, how do you know what the loudest part of the song is to set the limiter?
Old 8th September 2010
  #132
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by robstercraw View Post
Ive been using Logic for almost a year. I just went to 9.1.1. I have this problem about once a week. And it seems to be pretty random for me. I do a lot of bands with lots of tracks and plugs, but also have some pretty simple hip hop things that have had this problem. It happened to me about 4 or 5 times in one rap session the other day. They brought a stereo beat and had maybe 10 tracks of vocals. It kept happening over and over. But sometimes I can have 40 tracks with all kinds of edits and plugs, do some overdubs in that and no problems. Luckily the noise is not audible till playback for me. And its very obvious what it is by seeing it, so I never play it back and blow anyones ears. Ive reinstalled, thrown out prefs, changed buffer size, used no plugs while recording, tried to keep very minimal track counts, etc... and it still happens.
I hope you told this to Apple -- help them recreate the problem so they can solve it please!

I can't understand why Apple can't recreate the problem, it seems ludicrous. I mean, why don't they just pay someone and borrow their setup for a few weeks to examine it if they can't do it on their own macs. I don't believe them, it is all BS.
Old 8th September 2010
  #133
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phas3d's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
I hope you told this to Apple -- help them recreate the problem so they can solve it please!

I can't understand why Apple can't recreate the problem, it seems ludicrous. I mean, why don't they just pay someone and borrow their setup for a few weeks to examine it if they can't do it on their own macs. I don't believe them, it is all BS.
I don't know any company that does that. People should start using more feedback webpage. A lot of people complained about audio configuration when it was removed in Logic 8. The reason was that you couldn't copy mixer settings between projects. They reintroduced it slightly different with an update. And on 9 it's even better implemented by letting you import not only settings but content from other projects.
Not playing devil's advocate here, but if you have issues, report them.
I myself had to wait till 9.1 to get a decent dithering algorithm. They take too much time solving some issues. I'll give you that.
Old 8th September 2010
  #134
Gear Addict
This is a health issue not just some bug. I (naively) thought they would do anything in their power to locate the problem if they couldn't on their own systems.
Old 8th September 2010
  #135
Gear Nut
 
KingBugsy's Avatar
 

I have just found this thread today ... as a user of Logic for the last two years, I have never run into this issue. But it is very concerning ... does anyone here have any information at all on what is causing this problem? Does Apple have any reply? Using Logic 9, with the latest updates ... all good. I am also using the Apogee Symphony sytem, designed to work with Logic ... so far no problems.
Old 8th September 2010
  #136
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phas3d's Avatar
 

And there lies the problem. It's a bug that can't be duplicated accurately. It doesn't seem to be a special operation you do. Or a certain interface apparently. It's very hard to pinpoint it. That's is why is so important that people report the feedback with their system configurations. The must be something in common with all the systems that experience this.
As I wrote before, I've used Logic for over 12 years with different systems and never experienced it. Wish I could help, guys...
Old 8th September 2010
  #137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
I use the bog standard logic limiter, it's very CPU friendly and it has a "no latency" mode. It doesn't sound very good, but you're not actually hitting it, so it doesn't sound like anything!
You can definitely put one on every headphone mix on an intel machine without overloading anything. You just need to use the input gain as the main fader to raise it close to 0dBFS, and then trim on the headphone output.
You set the threshold just above the loudest part in the song. In the worst case scenario, if the singer gets a slightly limited drum track, what's the problem?

I know it's not perfect, but it does work for me. I had the bug it on a drum track recording, and the drummer was rather pissed off, but definitely not hurt.
This doesn't work easily in an analog hybrid mixing desk situation because 0dBFS is like +18dB above nominal level. With input trimming it can be done, it's just a bit of a pain. IME it works quite well on ITB projects.
I hope it helps.
Sounds like good advice for some for sure. I work in a hybrid environment, in a work environment that is also very fast pace and demanding. So just wouldn't work for me, but defiantly seems like a good idea for some. Especially people that are having the issue more often.

Ha most sessions I work on I am not even running the computer. The producer I work for likes to control the pace and punch ins and what not. I just get the sound and usually only step on the rig when there is an issue. So the odds of me getting everyone to set this up properly on every track is just not a reality unfortunately.

Luckily most heavy lifting is done with a PT HD rig. To limit the amount of recording done in Logic.
Old 8th September 2010
  #138
Quote:
Originally Posted by robstercraw View Post
Ive been using Logic for almost a year. I just went to 9.1.1. I have this problem about once a week. And it seems to be pretty random for me. I do a lot of bands with lots of tracks and plugs, but also have some pretty simple hip hop things that have had this problem. It happened to me about 4 or 5 times in one rap session the other day. They brought a stereo beat and had maybe 10 tracks of vocals. It kept happening over and over. But sometimes I can have 40 tracks with all kinds of edits and plugs, do some overdubs in that and no problems. Luckily the noise is not audible till playback for me. And its very obvious what it is by seeing it, so I never play it back and blow anyones ears. Ive reinstalled, thrown out prefs, changed buffer size, used no plugs while recording, tried to keep very minimal track counts, etc... and it still happens.
Good to know! Guess there seems to go my theory that it happens more often on more audio intensive sessions. I spent a lot of time thinking and trying to track this bug down when Logic 8 first came out. I had pretty much given up on it, until this thread started showing some legs. Now at least hopping that apple will get shammed enough, take notice and finally do something about it, if the fault does lay on them.
Old 8th September 2010
  #139
Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
Scratch full band recording through a Pro 40 for nearly every song I do. I do apologies that I haven't experienced it yet. I take it your suggesting I brace myself. I will.
Good to know. Robstercraw above mentioned he was also having issues on smaller sessions. So there kind of goes my audio intensive theory. I sincerely hope you never have to see this issue!
Old 8th September 2010
  #140
Sorry one thing to add ha. I just spoke with my boss and he has had the issue since we have updated to Logic 9. So as I had thought, I just hadn't seen the issue in 9 yet.

Also to keep in mind. When we upgraded I installed fresh, everything. I do this regularly with all the rigs I maintain, at least once every 6 months or so. Or every major update.
Old 9th September 2010
  #141
Gear Addict
 
robstercraw's Avatar
 

Apple doesnt seem to have a clue. Another really annoying bug I have on occassion is that sometimes my real-time bounces go directly to the trash can. I know im saving them in the right folder, no question. When i get there to burn it, its gone. And its always in the trash. And sometimes its only part of the bounce. But this only happens with realtime bounces, not offline. Anyone else experience this? (maybe my computer is just trying to tell me something about the music im recording......)
Old 9th September 2010
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
I had the blast problem 2 times...

That's why I switched to another application. I like Logic, it's CPU efficient, but I don't want to blast someone's ears while tracking!

Offcourse there were some other reasons for the switch as well...

I think the problem has something to do with Logic not being able to write/read audio fast enough from the drive and then some bufferproblem happens and this is when it goes crazy... This was with an MBP 2.4 SantaRosa / Fireface 800 / Lacie D2. Offcourse it could also very well be firewire related.
I believe this to be the case because the noise is sometimes followed by a "disk too slow" alert.

Also, let's make this clear, Apple is trying to find a fix. I, as well as others, have been contacted by Apple and asked to provide system info to help them track the problem down.
Old 9th September 2010
  #143
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Apple trying to resolve it? they haven't asked me for any questions on specs and I've been bitching about it for ages. I doubt if they know what a FF800 even looks like let alone have one to test it with....like I've said before, if this happened on an iPhone it would have been sorted years ago.
Old 9th September 2010
  #144
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phas3d's Avatar
 

You provide that info on the feedback page .
Here is the link:

Apple - Logic Pro - Feedback
Old 9th September 2010
  #145
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
You provide that info on the feedback page .
Here is the link:

Apple - Logic Pro - Feedback

Yep and join the others doing apples beta testing for them. Don't think there is a better description then beta for Logic 8.0 and 9.0. How about apple actually step up and properly test their software before release.

Remember the issues with swipe comp when it came out in 8.0? That was one of the funniest bugs I have seen, ie here's this amazing new feature, ohh wait it will move all your takes around randomly. I mean if there was proper studio testing, or should I say any, that would of not slipped through the cracks. Not even close.

Edit: Just wanted to add this was not an attack on you phas3d. I think you are a great contributer to this forum. The post was just me being frustrated with what I see as lack of real beta testing.
Old 9th September 2010
  #146
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phas3d's Avatar
 

Steve Jobs is crazy about secrecy.
I'm a certified Logic trainer and didn't know about Logic 9 until after it came out! How do you think it makes me feel? Specially because I have to pay for training and certification for myself. So believe me, I know how it is!!! And I don't like it either.

P.S. Just venting too...
Old 9th September 2010
  #147
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api2500's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
Steve Jobs is crazy about secrecy.
I'm a certified Logic trainer and didn't know about Logic 9 until after it came out! How do you think it makes me feel? Specially because I have to pay for training and certification for myself. So believe me, I know how it is!!! And I don't like it either.

P.S. Just venting too...
The guys who work in the Apple Store have no idea about new releases or new hardware or anything till the day it comes out either.

I'm putting off Logic 9 Certification because it's been out for so long and training for an old version for £500 would just piss me off.
Old 9th September 2010
  #148
nas
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nas's Avatar
 

I'm glad that this thread is being kept alive...

Been a Logic user for about 10 years now and have generally been an early adopter of new versions. I have never experienced this problem from versions 4.x to Logic 8.x using various configurations. This issue, along with other reported bugs and stability problems has unfortunately kept me from upgrading to L9 as of yet.

For those lucky ones who have had little to no issues with L9, perhaps you might describe your config. and workflow (as some of you already have). Also are you in a stable electrical environment?... maybe this has something to do with it.

I sincerely hope that subsequent versions - whether L9.x or L10 etc.. focus less on bells and whistles and more seriously on stability and reliability. Fat chance? we'll have to wait and see...
Old 9th September 2010
  #149
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phas3d's Avatar
 

Blasts of white noise in logic 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500

The guys who work in the Apple Store have no idea about new releases or new hardware or anything till the day it comes out either.

I'm putting off Logic 9 Certification because it's been out for so long and training for an old version for £500 would just piss me off.
You should do it anyway. Logic 10 will probably be released only after the next summer. And if you're certified on Logic 9 at that time you won't have to redo the course. You'll just need to buy the book and take the exam if you wish.
I can tell you from experience that the course is good for both beginners as experienced users.
Old 9th September 2010
  #150
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api2500's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3d View Post
You should do it anyway. Logic 10 will probably be released only after the next summer. And if you're certified on Logic 9 at that time you won't have to redo the course. You'll just need to buy the book and take the exam if you wish.
I can tell you from experience that the course is good for both beginners as experienced users.
I might. I forgot about the exam. How much is that alone do you know?

I was only considering it because my Uni does the course for a considerable discount.
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