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Blasts of white noise in logic 9 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 8th June 2010
  #31
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atticus's Avatar
I have had this happen three times in the past two weeks on Logic 8. The weird thing is that I am getting the disk error when there is no way there should be an error. It happened once when I was recording a single track overdub with only 8 frozen tracks playing back?

I wonder if it has anything to do with the Low Latency Mode button?
Old 9th June 2010
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

I believe this problem is coreaudio related, I gave up on Logic and hope this gets fixed for those that need it.
Old 9th June 2010
  #33
One thing that may be aggravating this problem for some folks -- although any blast of full scale noise is going to be a very nasty experience -- is that some people may be using their DAW or computer's digital volume control to control the control room monitoring level while running the analog output chain and powered speaker systems wide open.

Under that scenario, you could be listening with your digital side signal reduced to -20 or -30 when the full scale noise comes blasting through. A huge, huge ouch. (It really could permanently damage your hearing -- not to mention your monitors.)

Of course, a better solution is to run your DAW/DA output at full scale and control the volume from the analog side, with something like a Big Knob, mixer, or perhaps a passive volume control. (One should also set his powered monitor's input trims to a comfortable maximum level, which will help to reduce self-noise from them, in any case.)
Old 10th June 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
One thing that may be aggravating this problem for some folks -- although any blast of full scale noise is going to be a very nasty experience -- is that some people may be using their DAW or computer's digital volume control to control the control room monitoring level while running the analog output chain and powered speaker systems wide open.
I have an analog monitor control, and the first time I got that blast of noise it sent me reeling backwards.

I don't understand the scenario you're describing though. If there is a digital gain control between the white noise and the D/A that's feeding the monitor, that gain control will attenuate the noise the same way it would attenuate a normal audio signal, no? The white noise is coming right off a track in Logic (it gets printed into the track somehow), so it is subject to all the software and hardware gain controls between that track and the monitors.

-synthoid
Old 12th June 2010
  #35
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i'm not sure if any of us know at what point in the chain this burst of white noise comes from.

i guess all theblue1 is saying (which i agree with) is that if you're using analog attenuation to determine your monitoring level, you should make sure your DAW output is reasonably hot. the difference between the full scale burst of white noise and a mastered rock song cant be very different.

startling; yes. but the only way you'd have a blast of white noise be deafeningly loud is if your DAW output working level is unreasonably quiet compared to the potential of the DA at full scale. and therefore your analog monitoring is up to compensate
Old 12th June 2010
  #36
TL2
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Wow, glad to hear I'm not alone on this issue. I recently posted a thread regarding this white noise burst but mine manifests itself through the Waves C4 TDM plugin using PT8cs3 on an Intel Mac running 10.5.8. RTAS is fine, but random TDM outbursts have me on my knees reaching for my master volume. Luckily, the few times it's happened, I've been mixing alone, but if this were to happen during tracking, it would seriously wound somebody under cans or in the control room monitoring through the mains! I'm like pavlov's dog now... cringing whenever I activate an instance of C4. Plus, it doesn't happen all the time... just randomly. My drives are fine... nothing over 500 GB and are all audio specific drives with plenty of space left.
Old 12th June 2010
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthoid View Post
I have an analog monitor control, and the first time I got that blast of noise it sent me reeling backwards.

I don't understand the scenario you're describing though. If there is a digital gain control between the white noise and the D/A that's feeding the monitor, that gain control will attenuate the noise the same way it would attenuate a normal audio signal, no? The white noise is coming right off a track in Logic (it gets printed into the track somehow), so it is subject to all the software and hardware gain controls between that track and the monitors.

-synthoid
I'm sorry. Somehow I'd lost sight of what was written in the OP. My bad.

Of course, what I was describing would help if one didn't catch the new track with the white blast in it before playback. And, as a general rule, controlling the CR level from an analog control after the DA will afford extra protection from accidental full scale blasts from other sources, operator error, etc, that could be particularly problematic for those who control their CR volume from the digital side and aren't using the lowest optimal powered speaker input trim.

But, yeah, I was starting from a misunderstanding with regard to the OP's redent experience. Sorry for the distraction.


If it makes anyone feel any better, I was getting random full scale blasts on my MOTU 828mkII (which was fixed when I did a hard reset). They weren't often, maybe every few weeks -- but, you know, I don't mix real hot [only applying buss compression at the end of the mix process, sort of self-mastering] -- so when a FS blast hits, it hits hard.
Old 12th June 2010
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
when a FS blast hits, it hits hard.
right. the thing is that even if it is at the same amplitude as a normal audio signal, it is a broadband signal carrying as much energy as you can pack into digital audio. it's practically designed to destroy speakers (and ears).

hate this bug. that said, I haven't had it in the most recent Logic version, but that might just be because I've been tracking less and mixing more (I seem to get it only when tracking).

-synthoid
Old 13th June 2010
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

I just got the white noise burst while recording a track with no plugins at all. I thought I did a great vocal take and lo and behold, when playing back the track there was a burst of white noise interpolated into the actual track.

I'm grateful I didn't have headphones on when this happened.

WTF? I'm scared to put headphones back on. Has the Logic team ever commented on this issue? It has actually happened to me a couple of times prior as well.
Old 13th June 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfunster View Post
I just got the white noise burst while recording a track with no plugins at all. I thought I did a great vocal take and lo and behold, when playing back the track there was a burst of white noise interpolated into the actual track.

What you said reminded me that I have encountered this before, years ago on Logic 7.

I believe that the issue was the external drive was not communicating with the Macbook properly since the issue was fixed when I got a Lacie Porsche Drive at GC.

Honestly I have not had one issue since then and am currently running OSX10.5.8 on Logic Pro 9.1.1 with a Western Digital 1GB drive.
Old 13th June 2010
  #41
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I've encountered this once so far, but it wasn't until I started using an external drive for all my sample libraries. I had Logic going all day today with my ensemble chained through my drive into my firewire port. No white noise. I did recently run Onyx as well. When it did happen, it scared the crap out of me.

I run a Macbook pro 2ghz core duo 2gigs RAM. External drive is a Seagate 1TB 3.5" in a Vantec Nexstar 3 enclosure.
Old 13th June 2010
  #42
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I have not had it happen lately. It sounds like it is a mac problem, as opposed to a logic problem. I my case, there was a "disk to slow" error first. I think logic attempted to write bad data after this error, instead of canceling the take. What was written was full amplitude random audio.

It seems like the logic programming solution for this could be:
1)figure out the disk too slow error(My disk was definitely not too slow..sata2 with a few tracks)
2)If a disk too slow is encountered, then analyze the waveform before allowing it to be added to the session.
Old 13th June 2010
  #43
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Pr.tiouz's Avatar
 

this happens to me for ages, since vesion 6 when i jumped on logic, whatever the os or computer (it's my third), so this may be related to logic or os.
whatever it's a big shame on Apple that pro users have todeal with such a thing and be ashamed in front of clients when it happens.
It's such a big deal, that's related to heath concerns.
Old 14th June 2010
  #44
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfunster View Post
I just got the white noise burst while recording a track with no plugins at all. I thought I did a great vocal take and lo and behold, when playing back the track there was a burst of white noise interpolated into the actual track.

I'm grateful I didn't have headphones on when this happened.

WTF? I'm scared to put headphones back on. Has the Logic team ever commented on this issue? It has actually happened to me a couple of times prior as well.
I'm just about to move from PC to a Mac (various reasons - I need FCP too). I'm starting to enjoy Soundtrack Pro too, and HAD thought of getting Logic Express (it doesn't seem as big a learning curve as Cubase which I've really never got on with )

However, what with THIS scare and one on another post about "RAM-eating Logic" (!) I'm thinking Logic might not be the best move. I actually have a legit copy of Cubase 4 for the Mac ... maybe I'm going to have to knuckle down and learn that program instead!
Old 14th June 2010
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatback8 View Post
I'm just about to move from PC to a Mac (various reasons - I need FCP too). I'm starting to enjoy Soundtrack Pro too, and HAD thought of getting Logic Express (it doesn't seem as big a learning curve as Cubase which I've really never got on with )

However, what with THIS scare and one on another post about "RAM-eating Logic" (!) I'm thinking Logic might not be the best move. I actually have a legit copy of Cubase 4 for the Mac ... maybe I'm going to have to knuckle down and learn that program instead!
Just keep in mind that while this is a big issue, and that any noise burst like this should not happen and it should have been fixed a long time ago, it seems that the majority of Logic users, myself included, have never experienced this problem. So it perhaps isn't the best issue to base your decision on. I'm sure many of those posting in this thread will disagree, since anyone who's had this problem would naturally consider it a big deal.

Additionally, I seem to recall hearing of this issue with other DAWs as well, just perhaps not as frequently.
Old 14th June 2010
  #46
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It seems the noise blast of fire mostly occurs when an external hard drive is involved. ( Also Pro Tools LE users have this issue )
Can someone confirm this?
Old 14th June 2010
  #47
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
It seems the noise blast of fire mostly occurs when an external hard drive is involved. ( Also Pro Tools LE users have this issue )
Can someone confirm this?
That would be a reasonable supposition based on what I've read across 3-4 forums where Logic users are posting about this issue. I also have never had this issue, and have run Logic 8/9 on 3 different Macs here (currently on a 2007 MBP & 2008 MP.) I also don't routinely track multiple performers though, and when I do track I don't use software monitoring so there may be some specific set of circumstances that I've yet to encounter (obviously.)

I was curious if people experiencing this experienced it on tracks that were NOT selected during recording (ie, put into the higher priority recording mode.)
Old 14th June 2010
  #48
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Pr.tiouz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
It seems the noise blast of fire mostly occurs when an external hard drive is involved. ( Also Pro Tools LE users have this issue )
Can someone confirm this?
as far as i know it happens to me and i always recorded on an internal drive different from the system drive
Old 14th June 2010
  #49
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separate internal drive here too.
Old 15th June 2010
  #50
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always on internal here as well.
Old 15th June 2010
  #51
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_McEnroe View Post
Just so everyone knows, I am using Logic 9.1.1 on Mac OS: 10.5.8.


Nothing got better over night. I am making an appointment to see a doctor. This is just terrible.
How are you ears doing? Have they improved at all?

Hope everything turns out okay.
Old 15th June 2010
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerman View Post
always on internal here as well.
Ok, then we are back on square one again...
Never had this issue myself, but very interested in Logic behaviour over all...
But as I said, the blast happens for Pro Tools users as well, maybe more frequently for Logic users.
On a swedish Logic forum it mostly happens for users recording on external drives.
Old 15th June 2010
  #53
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DanyL's Avatar
 

Re: Blasts of white noise in logic 9

That happened to me during a vocal session last week. That was loud!!!!!
My setup is :
MacPro 8 cores 2.8ghz
6 Gb of RAM
Ssl Madi Extreme 64
Ssl Alphalink Madi At
All clocked to an Antelope Trinity
The session was at 24/44.1
I was recording on a RAID 0 array.
Old 15th June 2010
  #54
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SKyflash34's Avatar
 

I am among those who haven't experienced this problem and I hope I never
encounter it in the future. I seem to recall this happening with Pro tools with
my Mbox though. I haven't used that in a long time now.

2006 'Blackbook' Core Duo
2 Gig's RAM
Newertech Mini stack v 1 w/ Oxford 911 chipset in FW mode.
I've gone from having an Mbox 1, Firebox and my current Project Mix I/O
as interfaces and I've never had this problem since first using Logic Express 7.3
Old 15th June 2010
  #55
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Is anyone getting having this happen with stock plugins only? I think it would be helpful if people could post exactly which vi's and plug-ins are being used when this occurs. Definitely send feedback to apple. I will place a link to the apple feedback form on the first post of this thread.
Old 16th June 2010
  #56
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Firechild's Avatar
In the last 10.6.4 update a noise issue with external firewire audio devices is solved. Maybe that helps?
Old 17th June 2010
  #57
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Just so everyone knows, Apple has been trying to fix this for a while. They sent out emails to some users including me, asking for specific info to help them track down the problem. At this point, there is very little that is consistent in setup that creates the problem.

It can happen with internal or external drives. Plugins enabled or no plugs at all. Tracks in record enabled can get the blast while recording, followed by a disk too slow message. Recorded file shows a perfectly fine waveform, but upon playback give you the blast of noise. Audio interface seems to have no bearing. Number of tracks record enabled seems to have no bearing. He dense the song file is has no bearing, etc.

Seems to be a difficult problem for them to find let alone fix.
Old 1st July 2010
  #58
Tui
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In ten years of recording with Logic, I never had this problem, thank God. In that time, I've been using one PPC and two Intel Macs, and recorded to external and internal drives.
Old 1st July 2010
  #59
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Unfortunately I have seen it but it's been a while since it's happened. And for me it's only happened in Logic never Protools. I'm curious as to what size hard drive many of you are using to record too. I seem to have more problems out of the bigger drives (as in a terabyte or larger hard-drive). I'm currently tracking to a 500gig seagate SATA drive partitioned into (2) 250 gig partitions and haven't had any issues since doing this.
Old 21st July 2010
  #60
Gear Head
 

Blasts of white noise in logic 9

enough is enough apple...is this issue, as far as apple is concerned, when it comes hearing loss or hearing damage from this distortion occurring with logic or core audio or even soundtrack pro, that just because something can benefit from some improvement or be fixed doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad for you? if a lawsuit were filed and then in the end would this just end up requiring that Apple improve and provide better software, offer disclosures, and test Logic Pro users for hearing loss and that apple would still be off the hook for fixing this?
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