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Steven Slate or Superior Drummer 2
Old 28th May 2010
  #61
Lives for gear
 

Amazing how people buy products without even reading the description of
the product.

This thread is completely nuts. Nobody would ever reach any sensible conclusion from reading any of this stuff.

Go read the literature on these libraries. The makers/designers of these products all had different results in mind. You have to understand what they were going for, how they sampled the kits, and how they are meant to be used. For instance, SSD samples really come from what were originally solely GOGs only meant for replacment, and not standalone samples. Things have changed, but it helps so much to understand the history, and philosophy behind what Steven, Chris Witten, etc.. are doing.
There's a ton of info out there on all this stuff. This thread is NOT the place to look for that info! Yikes..

Sample libs are like Mics. No single one will work for everything. The best option is to have as many options as you can afford. I own just about every drum library thats been made, and i still have plenty of instances where i just dont have what i really want. You make it work however you can.
Research, Trial, and Error, reapeat...
Old 28th May 2010
  #62
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Just to correct some slight misinformation, only the first 10 kicks and snares from Slate were originally meant for replacing and augmenting live drums, the other 30 kicks snares and all the toms were designed for the midi instrument and replacement/augmentation. In 2008, the original 10 kicks and snares were re-engineered for the virtual instrument, with further revisions for 3.0 and 3.5.

Todd makes a great point that you should research both products.. there is a lot of info about them on the web, as well as plenty of audio demos.thumbsup
Old 28th May 2010
  #63
Lives for gear
 

The other day I got to hear Slate Drums, SD2, Oceanway Drums, and Addictive Drums all side by side. I'm still stoked with my SSD.
Old 28th May 2010
  #64
Lives for gear
 

Slate stuff sounds great, but the cymbals are basically useless to me (and a lot of other people I know). Slate makes great products, but on this issue their stance is "many people love the sounds, so there is nothing wrong with them".

basically the problem with the cymbals is they are spot mic'd rather than recorded where they would be positioned around a kit. therefore it has this really direct, fake sound when you use them no matter what. I'm mixing an album next month and the demos have been done with SSD, the programming is great, velocities are spot on, fills are excellent, but the cymbals give it away.

toontrack on the other hand have the cymbals done REALLY well, much better than any thing else i have heard. C&V, metal foundry and the new nashville SDX especially have REALLY realistic cymbal sounds. check the demo's on their website and compare to slate - cymbals are always the dead giveaway for me.

that said, I'd say you'd be best off going for toontracks products (generally a better run company, great sampler engine) and buying trigger for blending in slate sounds.

If slates people want to contest me on the cymbal thing, I dont mind making an example with SSD with their own cymbals, and then SSD with toontrack cymbals.
Old 28th May 2010
  #65
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinated View Post
Slate stuff sounds great, but the cymbals are basically useless to me (and a lot of other people I know). Slate makes great products, but on this issue their stance is "many people love the sounds, so there is nothing wrong with them".

basically the problem with the cymbals is they are spot mic'd rather than recorded where they would be positioned around a kit. therefore it has this really direct, fake sound when you use them no matter what. I'm mixing an album next month and the demos have been done with SSD, the programming is great, velocities are spot on, fills are excellent, but the cymbals give it away.

toontrack on the other hand have the cymbals done REALLY well, much better than any thing else i have heard. C&V, metal foundry and the new nashville SDX especially have REALLY realistic cymbal sounds. check the demo's on their website and compare to slate - cymbals are always the dead giveaway for me.

that said, I'd say you'd be best off going for toontracks products (generally a better run company, great sampler engine) and buying trigger for blending in slate sounds.

If slates people want to contest me on the cymbal thing, I dont mind making an example with SSD with their own cymbals, and then SSD with toontrack cymbals.
I won't contest you but I personally just use rooms for the cymbals and it seems to work for me. I personally have no use for in your face cymbals but the option is there if I ever do!
Old 17th June 2010
  #66
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Dear lord Oceanway drums are EXPENSIVE....
Old 17th June 2010
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SANDS View Post
I'm getting an alesis trigger i/o with a dm5 kit. I currently own ezdrummer and I am thinking the Superior route since I can get an upgrade discount. Would you guys consider Superior to be a better performer for tracking with an e drumkit?
I have the Alesis DM5 Pro kit and Trigger i/o. I havn't tried it with Superior or Slate yet, but I plan to. So far I've mostly used Reason when I record with the Alesis Kit. There are some nice sounding kits available for Reason, and I use drum replacer programs (Drumagog/Slate) when I want to replace recordings from my DW or other acoustic kits.
Old 17th June 2010
  #68
Gear Head
 
Slodey's Avatar
 

i use addictive drums for pretty much all my 'acoustic' drum sounds. while the number of kits is pretty small, you can get pretty much anything out of it with the right processing and the included channel strips are pretty cool.
Old 17th June 2010
  #69
Gear Maniac
 
metalfan8806's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Amazing how people buy products without even reading the description of
the product.

This thread is completely nuts. Nobody would ever reach any sensible conclusion from reading any of this stuff.

Go read the literature on these libraries. The makers/designers of these products all had different results in mind. You have to understand what they were going for, how they sampled the kits, and how they are meant to be used. For instance, SSD samples really come from what were originally solely GOGs only meant for replacment, and not standalone samples. Things have changed, but it helps so much to understand the history, and philosophy behind what Steven, Chris Witten, etc.. are doing.
There's a ton of info out there on all this stuff. This thread is NOT the place to look for that info! Yikes..

Sample libs are like Mics. No single one will work for everything. The best option is to have as many options as you can afford. I own just about every drum library thats been made, and i still have plenty of instances where i just dont have what i really want. You make it work however you can.
Research, Trial, and Error, reapeat...

I know! Pretty sure that only 5% of the people commenting this thread have actually used both. haha

Superior is a program with midi triggering to realistic sounding samples, but more important- a realistic sounding mix of them. Each midi track CAN be ran out into your DAW's channels, but just saying- that you can pull up the program and get awesome sounding drums in several minutes.

Steven Slate samples...are just samples. Fully multi-sampled, gorgeous samples of hits that are easy to Drumagog into a mix.
Old 17th June 2010
  #70
Lives for gear
I got Superior 2.0 and really hated it at first- mostly because I had no idea how to mix drums. They sounded very realistic but thin. There was no preset that instantly sounded good in my rock mixes.

The truth is that you WILL need to learn how to use your own compression (and have decent compression plugins) if you want Superior to sound good. Slate drums are more the "up and running instantly" type, which can be good and bad. They'll save you a lot of time, but they'll also sound somewhat generic the more mixes you use them on.

My take is this- if you're fairly new to mixing and actually want to know why your drums sound the way they do, get Superior. You can get incredible sounds out of them- better than Slate in my opinion, but it'll take more work. If you don't want to put in a lot of work, Slate sounds better out of the box. For me, there's a certain satisfaction in knowing the drum sound is MY sound, so I prefer Superior.
Old 6th March 2011
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
jlipoth's Avatar
 

I have own Superior Drummer 1 since 2006, Superior Drummer 2 since 2009 and bought all the Steven Slate Drum Packs in the summer of 2010. I've also tried out EZDrummer and the Nashville EZX on a buddies DAW recently. Now that I've actually had time to use with these for a bit, here are my findings:

Superior Drummer 1:
-Very very raw, but real sounding drums.
-I still use this for brushes, rakes, or anything that needs a really raw sound. -You can make these drums sound great, but it will take a very long time, because you have to process and route everything from scratch
- the rooms and cymbals are very real sounding

Superior Drummer 2:
-The most detailed software
- Very good usable fx
- Routing is insane - sub grouping within the plugin, series and/or parallel
- Has the best sounding cymbals and room mic options to my ears
- The guys who did the original sample, have a very high end polished sound (most of the Toontrack offerings tend to sound this way)
- Transients has a very definite snap to them, they often need taming unless your other recorded material matches it
- extra Producer Presets are a good way of seeing how other guys use this stuff, but again can easily have to much snap compared to other recorded material
- To get a good variety of sounds, you'll probably want other SDX, which makes this the most expensive option
- I use these drums if I want the high snap of the transient to cut through the mix and have the rest of the body sound of the drum not get in the way of other parts of the mix.
- Theoretically you could make these drums sound however you want, but if you want them to be fat and big, it will take a lot of work
- "NY style" Parallel compression works well on these drums

Steven Slate Drums 3.5
- Uses the ecosystem of finish processed presets first. Find the preset that sounds right and tweak
- These drums are made to be big, fat and on the aggressive side. You typically hear more of the body of the drums in the mix
- I find making a other instruments match the drums gives the best results
- Without proper compression on the drums buss, they will sound 2 dimensional and mid range-y, Steven Slate has a great tutorial on his message boards about using 1176 or FET style compression. A great affordable FET plugin is the Stillwell Rocket (as long as you stick to the settings that would be on an 1176 and not go overboard on the extra settings) Using this technique allows you to put in how much transient "snap" you want (it's the opposite of Toontrack that way), and how much body of the drums you want.
- I use these the most now, because it is very quick to get good drums very quickly - route SSD through the Stillwell Rocket, mixdown 3 kits that sound okay, demo it on a couple stereos and pick 1, tweak the Rocket

EZdrummer
- To me, this seemed in between Superior Drummer 2 and Steven Slate.
- In SD2.0 you could theoretically tweak the drums, because the original samples where raw, in EZD, the drums have processing in the sample already, but they aren't as close to finished presets as SSD
- When I tested EZD, I made a series of mixes and employed the Parallel compression, and then the Steven Slate style FET compression on the drums buss. I thought the results really opened up my notion of what EZD can do:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/543995/Drum%...20Tutorial.zip
-All compressors used in the demo were free

- To me, this makes EZD almost as intensive as SD2.0 to get the type of drum sound that I like else experience?

I'm curious what other's experience has been....
Old 15th October 2013
  #72
Gear Head
 

Used Toontrack's ezdrummer for years, got a steal on SSD4 last fall, own NI Studio drummer as part of Komplete, planning on getting Superior 2 soon. Here's my thoughts, pretty much like many others' opinion on here.


Ezdrummer- (also with Nashville EZX) Great product. Incredible detail in the sound that's captured. Not practical as my mainstay drum production tool for the simple fact that I can't tune the drums. Incredibly inspiring as an intro to software acoustic drums. Still use them on occasion, especial for the cymbals.

SSD4- Def more of the processed vibe, but I was suprised at how useable and mixable these were! Definitely get an arrangement going with more body, quicker than my experience with EZ. Room/OHs sounds beat the NI Studio Drummer, but I think Toontrack beats em all there. Also, I've grown to like most of what the interface offers as well.

NI Studio Drummer- I've had limited use of this one. Tight sounds are OK, but I'm left completely uninspired by any of the ambient mic'ing.


Basically, I'm of the opinion that if you do rock heavy music Slate Drums are nearly a must own utility, at least. I don't do much in that style, but I've still managed to get incredible usage out of them (I'm never mad at a Ludwig Supraphonic/Black Beauty). It's also nice to browse through outside samples to further augment and customize.

I'm looking forward to getting Superior 2 and hopefully making heavy use of the the incredible overhead and room mic'ing as a more universal drum tool in my work. I just feel like the dimension of the toms and cymbals in EZ is so nice, my expectation is nothing short of top notch for Superior. That being said, still haven't used Ocean Way or some of the others out there.
Old 30th October 2015
  #73
Here for the gear
Superior Drummer and Slate Samples

Hi, newb here...
How do I go about adding Slate grooves / samples to my existing Superior Drummer 2.3 ? Are they compatible ?

Or is it worthwhile just to get SSD4 Platinum ? This is $149 for what they say is 100 kits... but if I get the Superior Drummer EX Rock Warehouse (for example), that one expansion kit is $107.

I have the basic Avatar drum library right now, and want to add some killer rock/blues/country sounds. Any help/info would be appreciated.
Old 30th October 2015
  #74
Gear Maniac
Just made an entire album with nothing but ssd4. Sounds amazing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desaavik View Post
Hi, newb here...
How do I go about adding Slate grooves / samples to my existing Superior Drummer 2.3 ? Are they compatible ?

Or is it worthwhile just to get SSD4 Platinum ? This is $149 for what they say is 100 kits... but if I get the Superior Drummer EX Rock Warehouse (for example), that one expansion kit is $107.

I have the basic Avatar drum library right now, and want to add some killer rock/blues/country sounds. Any help/info would be appreciated.
Old 6th March 2016
  #75
Lives for gear
 
keano's Avatar
hi guys the SSD sound good but they are already processed right? Their is no need to make he snare bigger or treat individual tracks like you would raw tracks right?
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