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Lets do it: The Ultimate Plugin Analysis Thread Dynamics Plugins
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3301
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustgroove View Post
The more I'm using Plugindoctor, the more I'm wondering how to properly interpret IR data. My general understanding is that this demonstrates "time domain" behaviour, but that's about it.
It really doesn't. It's tempting, but that's a trap.

The glue between IR and audio is a convolution. Very hard to guess its results, even computers suffer.

Experienced people will be able to assume all sorts of stuff, due to experience (i.e. that must be a smooth lowpass, that must be a steep lowpass with a flat passband, that's a highpass, and so on). But even then, this knowledge has little practical value anyway. So much easier to simply listen.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3302
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR View Post
It really doesn't. It's tempting, but that's a trap.

The glue between IR and audio is a convolution. Very hard to guess its results, even computers suffer.

Experienced people will be able to assume all sorts of stuff, due to experience (i.e. that must be a smooth lowpass, that must be a steep lowpass with a flat passband, that's a highpass, and so on). But even then, this knowledge has little practical value anyway. So much easier to simply listen.
Gotcha. What I'm wondering is how to measure things like pre & post-ringing with digital EQs using Plugindoctor or a similar tool. That's an area where I find it harder to trust my ears sometimes, so I'm hoping to find a way to measure these things to confirm or falsify what I'm hearing. Is IR useful in this context?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3303
Simply pass a dirac impulse through the system, and look a it.

Create an empty audio file, maybe 5 sec long. Somewhere in the middle of the file, set one sample to 0dB (or two for stereo files). All other samples remain fully silent.

Now take any filter, reverb, whatever and let it process this file. The resulting signal is the impulse response. If it's a linear system, the IR fully describes the system. If it has any trace of nonlinearity, the impulse response of the system will be dynamic.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3304
Here for the gear
 

This is the first time I heard about a Dirac impulse. What a simple, clever idea.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3305
Lives for gear
Anyone of you have an idea if it's aliasing if similar issues occur with a signal sweep at 44.1 and 88.2? While less severe at 88.2 I noticed that for some saturation plug-ins any issues are practically gone at that sample rate, leading me to think the issue was an aliasing problem, but for others the issues remain to a large extent even at twice the sample rate. The amount of saturation and dynamic response is likely part of this, but I was expecting that using 88.2 would solve most of these issues when using Saturation or Distortion.

I attempted a solution for this by splitting the signal around 10-15 kHz and only processing the lower range. I imagine up to 12 kHz is the most important area and that saturation may not be desirable above that, but then why isn't it more standardized to do this filtering already in the plug-in, as how Chris does with "Unbox", perhaps with a little more floating ranges based on the input signal?
Old 6 days ago
  #3306
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabienTDR View Post
Simply pass a dirac impulse through the system, and look a it.

Create an empty audio file, maybe 5 sec long. Somewhere in the middle of the file, set one sample to 0dB (or two for stereo files). All other samples remain fully silent.

Now take any filter, reverb, whatever and let it process this file. The resulting signal is the impulse response. If it's a linear system, the IR fully describes the system. If it has any trace of nonlinearity, the impulse response of the system will be dynamic.
As you might imagine I've got plugins that totally confound this method

I think it's a great idea to unearth information about plugins using a dirac impulse, just be aware that you can run across pathological stuff that will act strangely.

Both my Capacitor EQ (linear) and PurestSquish compressor (nonlinear, not out in VST yet) run series-parallel networks of interleaved processing. Specifically, two stages of on the one hand EQ and on the other, compression… but one stage is ABABABAB interleaved, and the other is CDECDECDECDE interleaved (first two alternating stages, then three).

Because I wanted to hear what it'd sound like and because audio is not represented by a single sample, but by the relation between a series of successive samples as reconstructed by the DAC filter…

So I guarantee I can provide plugins that are linear but can't be described by a single Dirac impulse
Old 6 days ago
  #3307
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Is there an easy way to measure or visualize ringing from EQs?
I read a simple article from Crave-EQ and now I'm paranoid to boost anything .

Plugin Doctor isn't so stable lately and it crashed today when I tried seeing what the scope does.
Old 6 days ago
  #3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
Is there an easy way to measure or visualize ringing from EQs?
If you can't hear it, does it matter?
Old 6 days ago
  #3309
Lives for gear
 
stinkyfingers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
Is there an easy way to measure or visualize ringing from EQs?
Why not use a square pulse like the page you linked ?
Old 6 days ago
  #3310
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
If you can't hear it, does it matter?
i'd say in some ways it does. some people have better ears than other people, and even if you can't hear it, other people might. that's why mixing engineers and mastering engineers and musicians all have different roles.
Old 6 days ago
  #3311
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
If you can't hear it, does it matter?
Yes, just like we can't see ultraviolet sunlight but it damages humans anyway. I suspect ringing contributes to listener fatigue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkyfingers View Post
Why not use a square pulse like the page you linked ?
I don't have anywhere near the expertise you or most other people here do. I just have time on my hands and if there's a simple method I can at least mention if something looks to be an example why it sounds good or bad. And go through my own EQs.

I'd like to know which EQs treat audio nicest or at least minimize degradation.
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