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can your daw software do this ?? i dont think so.
Old 1st August 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 

can your daw software do this ?? i dont think so.

can your daw do this ?? i dont think so.
this is unique stuff.
listen n learn..might be usefull and save you tracking time.
and help in song composition.
listen after 3mins in.
YouTube - Band-in-a-Box RealTracks - 3 of 3
or this... listen after 4 mins.
YouTube - Band-in-a-Box "All That Jazz" RealTracks Sets 13-19
listen starting 30 secs in.
listen to the metal lol..and bluegrass...around 4 min 30 secs.
notice generated mandolin solo 6min30secs.
notice generated fiddle solo towards end of vid.
YouTube - How To make Music with RealBand - Part 1of 2
another one...
notice how the drums are added with a proper session player
without recording a track or hiring a drummer... listen after 3 minutes.
notice how the chords are figured out in a song.
notice what is happening later on towards end of vid.
notice how a song is changed.
YouTube - How To make Music - Part 2 of 2 - RealBand



notice the trak generation feature.
i have seen no other daw software with these features
ie facility of haveing real session musicians in ones songs.
and trak generation saveing spending lots of tracking time.

there are more vids. either at pg music or on you tube.
i cant afford the software myself...but its very interesting.
you can basically compose in any style of music useing
real session musicians. from rap to rock.

just trying to help in case people are looking for daw software.
so i will be useing these when i have the buks to generate
bed traks..and import into reaper for final mixing etc etc.
Old 1st August 2009
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
i have seen no other daw software with these features ie facility of haveing real session musicians in ones songs.
and trak generation saveing spending lots of tracking time.

there are more vids. either at pg music or on you tube.
i cant afford the software myself...but its very interesting.
you can basically compose in any style of music useing
real session musicians. from rap to rock.

just trying to help in case people are looking for daw software.
so i will be useing these when i have the buks to generate
bed traks..and import into reaper for final mixing etc etc.
Cool stuff Manning. heh Nice.
Old 1st August 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 

cheers mate...heres a ton more examples...
nothing touches this imho...
heres vids showing the new mac version that just came out.
actual song examples in various styles. 30 song examples.
various styles.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box Tutorial Videos

many many videos at the link above for mac fans.
in every style of music.
note..no laborious tracking.
choose a music genre/style, enter chords, generate the session musicians....instantaneous song.
check out the metal example and the many others .
amazeing stuff imho.
no mucking around with midi.
tho' the facility is there for midi folks.

and for pc fans.
PG Music Forums: Video and Audio demos: RealTracks, Band-in-a-Box & RealBand 2009
page down for a slew of song examples in various styles.
duelling guitars n loads of others.

from what i see pricing wise the best deal is the uktra pak ??
cos you get both biab and realband. n god knows how many
instruments and session musicions n styles.

imho this is a new paradigm in music makeing.
just go thru the 60 plus vids n song examples in detail if you doubt me.
talk to users etc etc. blows me away.
Old 1st August 2009
  #4
Heaven forfend they ever streamline and modernize the GUI (don't do it, boys!)... they might actually take off. That rock slide guitar and sax don't sound too bad. I mean, you know, considering. heh

I was trying to imagine what would happen if a cool company released something that looked cool and did exactly the same thing -- what would the reaction be?

On a very real level, I think one of BiaB's saving graces is that you expect it to be dorky -- and it looks supremely so and has for, they tell me, a couple decades.

And, you know, in significant ways, it is, functionally, kinda dorky at times. But it is also extremely useful for roughing out song arrangements, songwriter demos, woodshedding, even as a starting place for more serious work.
Old 1st August 2009
  #5
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theblue1
re gui.
i believe youve done some software engineering ??
correct me if i'm wrong.
i think one of the reasons they are loathe to change the gui ,
is per a recent big thread in the user forums.
a poll was conducted if i remember ??
where the gui was discussed at length.
what i concluded is , its a generation split.
young versus old.

let me explain...
i mean its got now a big installed base all over the world...
so per the thread lots of the user base dont want it changed.
they are used to it. and know it inside out.
whereas the new kids on the block are used to "flashy gui's".

from a software engineering standpoint flashy gui's might seem "cool".
but i'm not enamored myself.
cos i know the prolly bloated code that prolly lies behind em.
lots of flash gui's are just marketing fluff imho.
one problem with flashy graphics rich gui's is running them on more elderly puters.
they can suck up resources.
not everyone can afford duals n quads etc.
so i think they are on a hiding to nothing.
change the gui big time n upset the world user base.
and also prolly wont run as lean or bog down more elderly puters.

i'm still going thru many of the vids/examples myself.
pretty amazeing stuff. the whole session musician features.
some of the solo creation stuff blows me away.
as i come across more interesting vids i'll post em.
Old 1st August 2009
  #6
Gear Head
 

This is so best!

Actually, I had a copy of BiaB in the early 90's, Atari stuff...

This is awesome. Im gonna buy this!

I like this 'instant-feedback' touch.
Old 1st August 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 

dotcom.
and for fun..
heres one example of bluegrass.
PG Music Inc. - RealTracks Set 11: All Bluegrass (Rhythm)
now if one thinks of it imagine how much gear
a small studio would have to buy to do
such a song.
so i got to thinking bout the cost saveings.
then ya gotta mic up all the instruments ,
get a mixer etc etc.

heres a country one..
PG Music Inc. - RealTracks Set 9: Country Electric Guitar

remember this is all done by the program.
listen bout 46 secs in.
there are so many instruments...drums, bass, piano,
and goodness knows what else.

to do this type of stuff would take days useing
a regular daw/sequencer.
remember you not only can generate bed traks in a blink of an eye
but also solos n melodies etc etc.

by the way i saw something for users of kontakt.
one vid i saw showed the integration of kontakt player.

heres some funk stuff.
all done by the program.

PG Music Inc. - RealTracks Set 22: Funk & Pop Bass
no laborious working for hours n days entering midi data on midi traks etc.

when one thinks the program costs with all the instruments the same as just drum
software alone. darn neat stuff i feel.
think how much you would spend in other daws and the added gear you would need
not to mention all the time in track laying to do the above examples.
just the time in micing up the instruments alone.
bonus..the sax soloist never turns up late or drunk for the session..lol.

i'll find some examples next in other genres.
every creative genre is covered it looks like.
Old 1st August 2009
  #8
Gear Head
 

Great stuff. A typical state-of-the-art DAW package is a complete joke compared to this program.
Old 1st August 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

dotcom.
yep..i know people whove spent thousands on their daws,
who couldnt get close to what this stuff does in a few minutes .
(see bosa solo link below..as an example.)
what i like is the degree of control in song creation.
also notice without spending a small fortune on plug ins.
you tell me any software that can do stuff like slide guitar solos
or sax solos like this software can. or comping.
what impresses me is how complex the chords in themselves
can be or the arrangements rather than the standard C/Am etc etc.
theres some pretty fancy chords in those arrangements.

for people that need standard songs for gigging there also thousands of song
standards in biab format..
eg..
BIAB Files at MIDI Studio Consortium
and heres a big link to lotsa songs done in biab.
Software - Band-In-A-Box Links
note.. dont use the MS wavetable synth.
use a nice sounding plug in or a great sounding module.
you can bring the songs into the application
and augment with all the new lovely session musicians too.
you can use sound fonts too or garritan for example.

heres a bossa solo . session player real traks example.
puter generated solos. frickin brillant stuff.
PG Music Inc. - RealTracks Set 17: Bossa - Soloists
no big name daw does this stuff.
think of the saveing in expensive mic pre's n gear alone.
HOLY COW..LISTEN AT 2 mins 5 secs...THE SOLO.
n THE DRUMS at 3 minutes onwards.

now acoustic guitar /drums/bass...backing track.
PG Music Inc. - RealTracks Set 23: Pop Acoustic Guitar
NOTICE THE AUTOMATIC DRUM CHANGES the program puts in. TIGHT.
listen to those studio quality toms mate.
to do this type of bed trak normally would take hours or even days
recording midi patterns then
plugging in a drum plug in, then adding the rest of the traks.

one other point of note.
reason some people need expensive multi core puters is
they need so many traks to get even slightly close to what this will
do with just a few traks. so you dont need an ultra power beast of a puter.

i'm happy some people can afford this stuff..i cant right now cos my wife is going thru some serious health stuff. but if you get these programs one thing i know talking to existing users
is make sure you go thru every one of the huge number of music styles.
its a big list youll see displayed by the program...mind boggling in fact.
Old 1st August 2009
  #10
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Or you could....crazy idea this...write the rest of the music yourself?
Old 1st August 2009
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
Or you could....crazy idea this...write the rest of the music yourself?
tutttutttutt
Old 1st August 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Captain Proton

did you not look at the videos on customising with your OWN TRACKS ??
you can even create YOUR OWN MUSIC STYLES.
you can even import YOUR OWN MIDI FILES ..(and audio files..)
and make your own audio n midi files in the program.
and use the built in session musicians to do some really neat stuff to em.
you can even import mp3's of songs youve made
and wav's n improve YOUR OWN SONGS.
nothing to stop you "writing the rest yourself".

heres how i would work.
use it for song foundation/bed traks/solos i cant play (eg i cant play sax solos..)
then add my vocs and augment with my own lead guitar breaks etc.
so that would be my way of as you say writing the rest myself.

just one example..i know people who spend hours n days in
notation/midi editors constructing drum fills.
this can now be done automatically by the program.
even if you used it as a glorified drum machine and nothing else,
its dam impressive. would save lotsa time doing drum traks..
and save the need for expensive mic pre's to capture the drum sounds.
and what if you have a poor sounding room to capture drum sounds in ??
as lots of small and project studios do.
cos then ya gotta futz around with sample replacement.
which can take a long time to get right.
whereas in this case ya got great sounding drums right off the bat.

on further research it looks like if ones a student or faculty
member there is academic pricing. lucky buggers.
i wasnt aware of that. starts at 100 buks.
mebe i'll come out of retirement n teach comp sci in uni..lol.
eg...
https://www.campustech.com/item/PG+M...-box/100908048

let me re-iterate its totally customisable.
spend some time researching the vids etc etc n the many tutorials.
for example ..you could get as complex as useing your traks n styles n
your orchestra plug ins with also the built in session musicians (which you can customise.).
from what i see of the vids all you would need is one hi quality
mic pre plus sound device (eg..for lead vocs etc..) , and all the rest can be done in the
software. so no need for a expensive mixing console etc etc.

mebe you can get close your way.
but i bet your gonna need a slew of gear (eg...hi quality front end..) at great cost ,
and some pretty darn good live players to achieve it. and a great sounding room
properly constructed at great expense like i once had when i owned a studio.
and lets say all your live players are good but one player is off, so ya gotta do overdubs
n fix ups etc etc. this way ..ya dont like a piano or sax solo or whatever just regenerate..bam.
Old 1st August 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Fair enough, I apologise for my comment... but only if people are not relying too much on the auto part of the program
Old 1st August 2009
  #14
Gear Head
 

Everybody steals ideas - it has always been like that. Now BiaB makes stealing even easier!

Nothing wrong with that.
Old 1st August 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 

heres a nice vid for mac fans..
showing the new mac versions tremendous flexibility.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box 2009 for Mac
click on the middle video called new features video.
(underneath the 3 videos youll see more videos in various music styles.
just click on the numbers against each style..scroll down the page.)

notice the nashville style at 1min58 secs.
even 16th's groove i think the instructor calls it.
3min20secs.
notice how one can change the drums.
listen to the guitars at 3min55secs.
would need to spend a lot on gear to get that sound..
good mic pre's etc n front end etc etc.
talking of customisation , notice how easy it is on the fly to change tempo.
notice at 6 mins on how the instruments can be changed easily.
where the instructor changes to a different instrument style with electric guitar now.
at 6min39secs.
notice how the instructor can tap in a tempo,
and at 7min 40 secs jazz up the chords.
notice all the large no of music styles available at 8 mins.
listen to the jazz trio the instructor sets up at 8mins 40 secs.
notice how the bass walks in the b section n how the drums change.
notice how dynamically n fast you can change things. ??
in other daws you would be futzing around moving around midi dat etc etc.
notice the sax after 10 mins 30 secs. n the walking bass.
notice also how he adds other instruments.
eg 11mins43 secs. without setting up a guitar amp
positioning a mic n running tests etc etc.
notice how the traks auto display in notation..
no laborious time to set up. n a real fretboard after 13 mins
notice how quikly a song is created around 15 mins time frame.

notice the reharmonisor for an existing midi melody.
instructor gives an example of bach.
watch what happens after 16 mins 50 secs.
and how bach is turned into a bossa style.
and what the reharmonisor has done after 18 minutes.
in summary you can take some midi file n turn it into something totally different.
a different song.

notice the 3 videos for the mac version.
if you want more examples scroll down the page to
realtraks for macintosh...
and clik the numbers displayed for lots more examples.
lots more vids.

ps..proton , if you follow all the vids you can dictate when n where to use the auto
generate features.
its very flexible. god bless.
i'm just trying to make people aware of the vast capabilities of these programs.
cos many folks just are not aware.
and they are laboring for days on something this can do in a few minutes.
remember theres nothing to stop you exporting the tracks created to your fav daw for further manipulation. there is a video on that , also re itunes if you click the right hand video.
even shows how to export to garage band.
Old 2nd August 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 

heres some more vids i found interesting..
1. a country one. pc.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box Tutorial Videos
then clik on the country train ..real traks 34.
listen at 1min40secs. and 2min30 secs.
notice what the drums are doing in the background.
3min 30secs listen to the soloing.
remember different instruments can be subbed in.
by a quik change selecting different instrument.
if your useing realband with 48 traks you could
get some interesting produced duelling effects
tween instruments.
crank around 5min47 secs,..rather nice..
notice the drums ?? and the subtle bass ??
interesting harmonica solos.
i cant play hartmonica solos..lol.

2. for mac..pop ones.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box Tutorial Videos
clik on no 26.
notice the way the drums are changeing around on intro.
gets rather interesting at 1min7secs.
listen at 1min 50 secs...notice the use of brushes.
AND THE RESONATOR SOUND !!!!!!!!!!
AMAZEING !! FREAKS ME OUT THAT RESONATOR SOUND !!
listen to the drums at 3min56 etc.
nice snare at 5mins 29 secs etc.
i mean how many folks can afford to put a nice resonator on their recordings.

3. just to show versatility...
FREAKIN METAL GENRE of the program.
for metal freaks.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box Tutorial Videos
down towards bottom of page clik on no 6 METAL !
1min21secs...fast guitar stuff...amazeing.
CHUGGING...2min 3secs start.
listen to the blue notes around 3min 10 secs.
now you can do metal songs even if you cant play fast solos.
listen to some of the generated solos.
Old 2nd August 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 
MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

Wesley Willis would have loved that program!
Old 2nd August 2009
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Actually band in a box is really simple.. it simply generate a chord progression and a previously made melody. but is fan to jam with.
Old 2nd August 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyAdam View Post
Wesley Willis would have loved that program!
Wesley was a (small-g) gear slut:
Quote:
Willis' keyboard of choice was the Technics KN series. Willis would obsessively trade in one KN model for the newest ones on the market during the time when he was making the most money (after his break-up with The Wesley Willis Fiasco). The KN1200 was the keyboard he was currently using, according to a Howard Stern interview.
Lookin' for that sonic grail...
Old 3rd August 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 

heres some interesting slow blues ...
you can find the real traks now cant you from main page ??
hers the link if you cant.
PG Music Inc. - Band-in-a-Box 2009 for Windows
1..realtracks30
1min36secs.
listen to the generated bass eg 1min 50 secs on.
many people ive come across would work for hours n not get that bass sound
and many of the others.
nice soloing.
3min12 secs...nice.
delta blues !
4min 18secs...very very nice..wow. expressive.
note the brush work on the drums.
5min12 secs...wow so pretty...BEAUTIFULL.
FANTASTIC. i dont know many people that could get that expression.
for goodness sake folks listen after 5 mins..!!
2. heres another.
pop swing examples.
realtracks26.
50 secs ..great sound.
big drum sound. nice soloing.
1min 56 secs on lots of jazz brushes.
my dad would have loved this..may he r.i.p.
(a good jazz drummer he was.)
3min 58secs nice rhythm bed trak sound.
think how many hours of set up it would take in your
studio to get this rhythm sound.
mebe a mothership big studio , yes...
but ya gotta spend large on gear.
big snare at 5min 30secs..
notice the way the drums change ??

.............................................................
the examples in this thread are but a smattering of what these programs can do.
and i hope the examples have proved they are very unique in music composition.
and can save a ton of time not only in formulating song ideas , and getting
a song going ultra fast compared to traditional means.
lets face it traditional daw software is just a recorder and mixer.
huge amount of work is needed , often days and weeks of tracking to obtain what these programs can do
in as little as half an hour or so.
the whole purpose of these programs is fast results. so you can hear your song ideas play back quickly.
some people are even making money with these programs gigging n playing live.
some people are useing em for quik bed traks.
others for generating melody n solo ideas.
a big plus i see is no futzing with midi traks n entering laborious midi data that can sometimes take days as in the past.

there is a slew of information n more videos/info on the pg music site.
i truly know no other music software that does what these programs do.
i'll leave you to explore further.
note...for the ultra ultra ULTRA sceptical...lol...
its amazeing but note there is a 30 day money back gurantee.
and no intrusive usb dongles to worry about.
and before anyone asks ..no i have nothing to do with the company.
i'm just one of thousands of registered users for one of their products.

the reason for the thread was there are so many people who either dont know
bout these products or there are misconceptions.
god bless.

ps..PRODIJ
actually mate...it can be as deep as the user is willing to dig in.
check out the feature list in detail mate.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Sorry, but my brain starting oozing onto my shoulder after a few seconds of listening to that. The plus side is that my ears had to stop bleeding to allow it through.

It seems like a good idea if someone wants to teleport back to the mid 80s with it and have some automatic MOR sit-com production prowess though.

No offense intended btw.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 

captain caveman
it really depends what your music genre is.
what genre of music do you write in ??
i frankly like many of the examples.
with respect there are lots of people that would disagree with you.
but its fair to say lots of users that would disagree tend towards the country and jazz , blues,
or pop genres. and yes the products have been used obviously in
tv situations from past posts ive seen in the past and jingles for ads etc.

heres what various reviewers have to say.
PG Music Inc. - Reviews - Band-in-a-Box
includeing macworld. tech awards too.

thus your comment surprises me.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #23
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MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

I think Jazz is a little advanced for the scope of that program.... sorry.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #24
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MonkeyAdam

i dont know if your aware , but some
of the people who work on these programs are rather accomplished
jazz musicians i understand.
the same company also offers various jazz master classes.
and prides itself actually re the jazz genre.
eg this offering by miles black.
PG Music Inc. - Jazz Piano Master Class - Lesson a Day
if you search the site other master classes are offered also.

therefore , and i'm open minded,
please tell me what daw you use n gear to produce a better result.
per your one liner mate.
audio examples would be nice too.
i'm not a jazz expert myself, ,,as i do mainly songs in other genres.
but if ya got a better solution you use , i'm all ears.
what do you use ??
Old 3rd August 2009
  #25
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MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

That's all very well and good, but the essence of Jazz comes from improvisation and human interaction.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #26
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MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
please tell me what daw you use n gear to produce a better result.
per your one liner mate.
audio examples would be nice too.
I compose with pencil and manuscript paper, sometimes piano, and I do interactive computer music using max/msp -- programming interactive computer music systems that are each specific to a composition. I also make max patches to use in the studio (not for live performance). I don't do jazz either, but I'm around enough people that do to know that this program would offend them.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 

MonkeyAdam

re human interaction.
these programs dont stop you doing that.
in fact from seeing many user threads ,
some users do just that.
heres an example...
someone has a song idea...lays it out quickly ,
its the fast convenience people like.
then shows his mates who jam/record over the top.
many users like to record this way.
cos realband for example has lots of traks.
the programs will even print out notation n lead sheets etc.
then there is the situation where lots of people just dont
have a band of like minded individuals to create with.
this is another group of users.

anyhoo the topic of the thread was can your music software do this.
rather than the time honored debate that will never end..lol..
bout the merits of useage of computerised tools.

in fact your point/concern has been debated many many times on lots of forums.
without resolution. even the pg ones.
the two camps of purists and convenience both offer their
own opposing viewpoints and plusses n minuses.
twill ever be thus..lol.

i suggest you post your approach on the pg forums,
and youll prolly get various interesting replies , includeing from
good folks whove used the manuscript approach for a long time.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #28
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MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

Quote:
i suggest you post your approach on the pg forums,
I'm afraid I don't know what you mean... sorry, fairly new here...

... I'm sure you underestimated what was meant by human interaction: this is a realtime sequence of events that can't even come close to being emulated by computers. Trust me, I've put a lot of thought and effort into interactive performance situations, and such a thing would take an intense amount of revolutionary coding. This is not it.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #29
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyAdam View Post
Wesley Willis would have loved that program!
LOL! No ****.
Old 3rd August 2009
  #30
Led
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Led's Avatar
This seems on par with what BIAB was. Something that could be fun to jam with if you work alone. Possibly even useful to somebody that does corporate AV's and can't play many instruments, but to compare this to a band of good muso's playing together is sheer lunacy.
So the answer is no my DAW couldn't do this. Why? Because I can't find players who are made of plastic....
I do think it's a brilliant bit of programming, but it is nothing but a pale immitation of what wellrecorded real players sound like. I won't be throwing out my session player contact book just yet thanks..
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