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Crikey - Apple release four button mouse
Old 6th August 2005
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Synth80s's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
To be honest, I'm usually too lazy and easily bored to respond to long winded posts like that with another long winded post, but okay..
I feel honored that you would stoop to my level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
"Working in Windows does not require a user to be logged on as an administrator for 95% of day to day functions"

Not if you're a data entry drone and all you do is use the approved and pre-installed corporate applications. As soon as you try to go beyond that however, you're out of luck. Note that the next version of Windows will use the exact same approach as we have in Mac OS X: "Windows Vista User Account Protection bridges the gap between user and administrative privileges by allowing you to run applications under a standard user account. When you need to perform an administrative task, such as install software or drivers, Windows Vista prompts you to confirm your intentions or to provide your credentials." Windows XP cannot do this...
This depends on the use case scenario. Windows XP was derived from the NT/2000 code base, which was MS' business platform until they mercifully dropped the Windows 9x/ME line. The problem is that Windows XP tries to be all things to all people, so it often fails to be the best for any one thing. Still, how often do most Windows XP users need to install software or drivers? The average corporate user only needs to logon and do their work without admin credentials. If you're a home user who wants the protection of not running as admin all the time, you can simply logon as admin whenever you need to do admin tasks or you can use the "run as" dialog box to use alternate credentials to run a given program as admin -- it works well. It's not as good as sudo in UNIX and it doesn't work for everything, but it works for most things most of the time. I can say this for sure: you can run Windows as a DAW without running as admin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
"The registry does not require maintenance. Period."

Windows applications must write to the registry in order to do a lot of things, such as registering application (COM) objects, manage preferences, make file associations etc. It's the responsibility of each application to write and remove these records. The problem is that a lot of applications don't do this cleanly. Over time obsolete records get left behind in the registry, and this has an impact on your startup time. Window must still parse and try to make sense out of all that left-over garbage. Microsoft has of course realized what a wonderfully stupid idea this was so they are trying to move away from it. .NET applications use self-contained assemblies, similar to Max OS X bundles and Java jar files. The registry will not disappear any time soon, but sometime in the far away future when it actually does, you'll be able to install most applications on Windows just as you do on Mac OS X: by dragging-and-dropping the (single) application file into your local application folder. Imagine that.
You nailed it on the head: "It's the responsibility of each application to write and remove these records. The problem is that a lot of applications don't do this cleanly." That's not Windows' fault, that's the fault of crappy developers. of course, Windows allows it to happen, but pretty much any product can be misused to its detriment. If you install and uninstall lots of software on any computer, it'll eventually hurt performance. What if I installed a bunch of processes in Linux or on the Mac that kickoff under init.d but when I uninstall them, the services don't get deleted? It's the same issue and I've seen it happen (Dell OpenManage Tools under linux for one example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
"Windows XP does not have stability issues."

Oh yes it does. "DLL hell" is still there even if it's diminished in newer software products. Applications updating shared dynamic link libraries with incompatible versions can destabilize your system.
Again, I say crappy development. Since Windows 2000, MS has included technology which allows each application to run their own "virtual" version of a given DLL rather than have each installer clobber prior DLLs of the same name. the technology was imporved upon in Windows 2003/XP.

All I can say is that I'm responsible for overseeing the help desk and many other systems at a major university and we rarely, rarely see blue screens these days. This includes machines that run custom applications, lots of Oracle apps, scientific apps, productivity/office apps, etc. Most blue screen come from driver errors (MS made a big mistake when the moved drivers "below the line" in NT 4.0 to gain a perfomance advantage) from no-name hardware or crappy clone PCs. Run Windows XP well on Dell OptiPlexes with well-written apps, and blue screens are a thing of the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
You can't handle Apple marketing? Sure, a lot of it is a bunch of bull**** but when was marketing ever factual? It's widely recognized as one of their strengths.

I could go on but I'll stop here. Let me just conclude by saying that my main issue with Microsoft is that, with one exception (developer tools), they never really invented anything new. It's all regurgitated mediocre products that were adopted, modified, and that eventually built market share through sheer persistence, business tactics, and monopolistic practices. Windows was originally a poor Mac OS clone, the Office product were all clones of various products (WordStar, Lotus 1-2-3, etc), Direct3D is an OpenGL clone, .NET a Java clone, Vista clear a Mac OS X clone (search, security, photomanagement, windows and buttons look and feel), and on and on... The pinnacle of Microsoft innovation is what? Microsoft Bob? Something actually new.. Apple, for all their faults, once in a blue moon they actually create something new and surprising.

Mac OS X is not without problems but it's clearly a generation ahead of Windows XP.
That's a valid opinion and I can see how you feel that way. When I first heard that Apple was putting their GUI on UNIX (to summarize OS X), I was fairly sure that they finally had the product to really get out of the 2-3% market share doldrums, but many users will never know how much better OS X is than OS 9.

Sure, MS isn't perfect, but they've been overwhelingly successful (even when they made less than stellar products) and they're making great strides these days. Microsoft's strength isn't in pure innovation, it's in offering a relatively cohesive set of products for end-to-end IT solutions. Again, not perfect at anything, but overall, they hit the mark. Apple doesn't have the breadth to compete substantially, Sun is miserable, but IBMs a real threat...again.

-Synth80s
Old 6th August 2005
  #32
Gear Nut
 
vikingdude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth80s
I can't speak for everyone here, but I think the sarcasm is a reaction to the perceived arrogance of Apple and some (not all) of its users.
Bingo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
Windows Vista User Account Protection bridges the gap between user and administrative privileges by allowing you to run applications under a standard user account. When you need to perform an administrative task, such as install software or drivers, Windows Vista prompts you to confirm your intentions or to provide your credentials." Windows XP cannot do this.
Seriously dude........ I install software and run applications with administrative privileges all the time from my limited account, just ran a program 2 minutes ago that way. Right click, choose "Run as" (sometimes you have to hold down shift) enter your administrative password, that's it. It's been like that for years. Let me put it this way, I never had to log on as the administrator because this method didn't work, and so what if I'd have to do that a couple of times a year, I can change accounts in less than 10 seconds.


Hey Synth, I've been wanting to get a little deeper in to Security Policies. Do you know any good links or web sites that explains it in a not too "geeky/poindexter" way?
Old 6th August 2005
  #33
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

If this kind of thing keeps goes on, no one is ever going to come to the music computers section coming for advice, and people who actually have advice to give aren't going to be heard above the voices of bickering children

When you start a thread about a MOUSE and this **** happens, then things have got into a sorry state. If ths music and computers section was actually a different forum, it would have imploded by now, and the admin would have given up

This is my last post in the music computers section. You lot can stuff it.

Bev
Old 6th August 2005
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Dickens's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth80s
Well, don't shoot the messenger! I was just asking your question as to why someone might have that reaction. I didn't attack the product or the platform, I just offered some insight as to what I sense "out there."
Not directed towards you but more towards any number of other more emotional and certainly less informative anti-Apple posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth80s
Also, if you don't think there's anti-PC hostility toward Microsoft or other PC-related vendors, you need to check out the CNET forums and others. The recent announcement of Windows Vista, an early beta release product that almost nobody has seen or used, was met with enormous hostility. Many proclaimed "it'll never be as good as OS X" but how would anyone know at this point?
I was referring to this (Gearslutz) forum.

I must admit that this thread has actually made me more interested in wanting to check out the Mighty Mouse. Hey! Are you PC posters actually part of a clever reverse psychology marketing scheme initiated by the evil Apple?
Old 6th August 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
I just read this thread. Must admit to having just gotten off the phone with my local Mac reseller as a result. Touch sensitive, 360 degree scrolling...sounds cool for less than $50. They're not available yet.
Old 6th August 2005
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BevvyB
If this kind of thing keeps goes on, no one is ever going to come to the music computers section coming for advice, and people who actually have advice to give aren't going to be heard above the voices of bickering children

When you start a thread about a MOUSE and this **** happens, then things have got into a sorry state. If ths music and computers section was actually a different forum, it would have imploded by now, and the admin would have given up

This is my last post in the music computers section. You lot can stuff it.

Bev
I know my apologies don't undo the harm I did by jacking this perfectly innocent thread into the wrong direction, but I really am contrite.

Hey, all you (fellow) PC folks, people have made their cases this way and that, it won't be settled here or anywhere else soon, how about just letting this poor thread get back to the business of talking about the new Mac mouse.

When someone starts a thread that's actually about Mac vs PC (like that'll ever happen), then we can all get together and have a good rumble.

But these nice folks didn't convene this thread for that purpose; they weren't saying anything about the PC. I'm the one who brought up the whole platform issue. It's my fault. The Mac guys didn't start it. Let's save the tough stuff for a real rumble.


I'm so ashamed.

[That said, I don't think I'm 'self-deluded', but then, how would I know, huh? heh ]
Old 6th August 2005
  #37
Gear Nut
 

To actually answer some *useful* posts in this thread , yes, the trackball is 360-degrees, and the 'squeeze' functionality is fully customizable.

That means full side-to-side, and up-and-down scrolling. Should prove to be quite useful for Logic. Or anything with a timeline, actually - I bet FCP users are gonna love this.
Old 6th August 2005
  #38
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

i am glad to see the new mouse.
this thread is about as bad or good as the blue, violet threads.
just mention apple, blue, p.c., or violet, and, wala.
i want the new mouse,
Old 6th August 2005
  #39
Gear Nut
 
vikingdude's Avatar
 

congratulations on the new mouse.
Old 7th August 2005
  #40
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
I like the Kensington Trackball theblack one with the 4 buttons and the scroll ring (Which is cool for the URS Eq's) + a 5 year warranty.
I think I would like to get the new mouse for my laptop on the road.
BTW if anyone hasn't noticed a weather thread here can change into a Mac VS PC thread.
Remeber kids just say "no" to Mac VS PC threads! tutt
Old 8th August 2005
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Synth80s's Avatar
To the forum: I apologize for my part in taking this thread off track. Normally, I can let uninfomed PC bashing slide, but I caught this thread on a day when my tollerance was low. A few notes in my defense:

1) I never bashed the Apple platform, I don't have a history of doing so and I don't plan to in the future -- it's a great product that works for lots of people and I've recommended Macs to many people

2) I don't believe in Mac vs. PC any more than I believe in orange vs. banana -- they are simply different choices for different preferences. One is not better than the other, just different.

3) My goal in reacting (perhaps overreacting) to the negative PC comments was to avoid the further spread of misinformation. It's admittedly difficult for me to let misinformation spread unchecked if I can do anything about it and making PC-based systems run stably and securely is a major part of my profession. My goal on these forums and elsewhere is to be helpful -- perhaps someone might have picked up some useful info in there somewhere. If it helps, I vow to answer any detailed PC questions anyone has (time permitting) offline.

Vikingdude: I'll respond to your question privately.

-Synth80s
Old 8th August 2005
  #42
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

i personally do not think a apologize is necessary.
people are very passionate about platform's, which ever side they tend to be on.
most p.c. user's will have no actual facts to base a decision about a mac on, as they have never, or will never use one, the same goes for the mac user's.
as a mac user, ( because that is all i have ever used ) i find the p.c's that i have seen in years past look strange, i am not comfortable as they must be BAD.
ha, ha.
i have not had the best luck with my currant mac, i have been a mac addict because for me ( someone with very little computer knowledge ) they seem to be just right.
recently i have found their service to be lacking, and may choose not to get another, i am on the fence.
well just thought i would say cu-dose, no apology needed at least not here.
i think people should be able to voice their opinions, and or views, rather correct or not ( with in reason of coarse ), and as a group we can ether learn something, or not.
Old 8th August 2005
  #43
Lives for gear
 
faeflora's Avatar
 

Uh MODERATOR?

STFU


HAS ANYONE USED THIS NEW MOUSE? HOW ABOUT WITH OS 10.3?

IF IT HAS NATIVE SUPPORT IN 10.3 I WANT IT.
Old 9th August 2005
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
Dickens's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora
HAS ANYONE USED THIS NEW MOUSE?
As of this post (8/9/05) the Mighty Mouse is not yet available at Apple stores or resellers. Perhaps later this week.

Last edited by Dickens; 9th August 2005 at 03:05 PM.. Reason: wrong date
Old 10th August 2005
  #45
Lives for gear
 
pulsar modular's Avatar
 

I like the idea of scrolling the timeline in logic with the scroll ball.

"If millions of people stupid enough to choose dfegad Windows can handle a multi-button mouse, I think that Mac users can."
Old 10th August 2005
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Synth80s's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendejo
"If millions of people stupid enough to choose dfegad Windows can handle a multi-button mouse, I think that Mac users can."
How is this in any way helpful to anyone? Gasoline is too expensive these days to throw on the fire...

-Synth80s
Old 10th August 2005
  #47
Lives for gear
 
pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth80s
How is this in any way helpful to anyone? Gasoline is too expensive these days to throw on the fire...

-Synth80s
Well, after all it's not a product support forum but one open to debates, comments, and occasional (earned) flaming as well I would hope. heh
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