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HELP ! Enabling RAID = Vanishing Data !
Old 21st July 2005
  #1
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

HELP ! Enabling RAID = Vanishing Data !

Ok I recently got a new system with 2 SATA drives.

I had been meaning to configure the in a RAID mirrored effort, but just ot around to it today.

One drive was empty, the other had about 35GB of project data on it.

Stupidly I enabled RAID for both SATA drives in the BIOS without first backing up...(last backup was a couple days ago)... Windows then saw one drive...empty...

I then reversed the process in the BIOS, and Windows now sees two drives...both empty...



It tells me that one drive has 148GB free and one has 111GB free...which is correct...but it cannot see the files.

PLEASE somebody tell me what enabling RAID has done to the file system/drive, and how to reverse it ?

Had to cancel a vocal session today and I'm ****ting myself about losing a days work for a band that have a pretty tight schedule...


Nathan
Old 21st July 2005
  #2
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Unfortunately, I think you're screwed. This happened to me a few months ago, when I disabled RAID. My phone call went ," Uhh Jack, remember those 4 tunes we did? Wanna do them again on the house?" Of course, I hadn't backed up anything. Luckily, the two clients whose stuff we lost were much happier with the redone tracks and I was allowed to remain alive (just kidding),. I don't think there's much that can be done though, my understanding is that reconfiguring RAID erases the zero-bit or whatever it's called, basically the info that tells the drive what is there. That is why you can recover deleted data, because rather than physically getting rid of it, the drive is told that the sector is okay to write over. But for some reason RAID makes this tough. The only thing I can say, if you want to really delve into this, is that because you went from no raid to raid (reverse of what I did), all your data was on one physical drive, so it may be recoverable, but I understand this is very costly ($1000-ish?). Probably your best bet is to be honest with them, retrack for free, and keep their trust. A little self depreciating humor doesn't hurt either. Somehting like this has happened to everyone at some point and I feel your pain, but life goes on and it will get better. You'll never do that again, trust me, and you'll be a lot more aware of backup strategies (why do I ALWAYS learn the hard way???). Also, I understand that RAID is not really a good thing for audio anyway, others may feel differently, but without it our setup has been much better. Best of luck, hope it works out for you.
Old 21st July 2005
  #3

bit worried now
doing a softraid inside the G4
everything looks peachy for audio
but I'll backup just the same tonight
thanks

btw... it is a lot faster
allmost like my old SCSI
Old 22nd July 2005
  #4
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrufino1
Unfortunately, I think you're screwed. This happened to me a few months ago, when I disabled RAID. My phone call went ," Uhh Jack, remember those 4 tunes we did? Wanna do them again on the house?" Of course, I hadn't backed up anything. Luckily, the two clients whose stuff we lost were much happier with the redone tracks and I was allowed to remain alive (just kidding),. I don't think there's much that can be done though, my understanding is that reconfiguring RAID erases the zero-bit or whatever it's called, basically the info that tells the drive what is there. That is why you can recover deleted data, because rather than physically getting rid of it, the drive is told that the sector is okay to write over. But for some reason RAID makes this tough. The only thing I can say, if you want to really delve into this, is that because you went from no raid to raid (reverse of what I did), all your data was on one physical drive, so it may be recoverable, but I understand this is very costly ($1000-ish?). Probably your best bet is to be honest with them, retrack for free, and keep their trust. A little self depreciating humor doesn't hurt either. Somehting like this has happened to everyone at some point and I feel your pain, but life goes on and it will get better. You'll never do that again, trust me, and you'll be a lot more aware of backup strategies (why do I ALWAYS learn the hard way???). Also, I understand that RAID is not really a good thing for audio anyway, others may feel differently, but without it our setup has been much better. Best of luck, hope it works out for you.
Yeah...that's pretty much summed up the philosophy I've ended up with...

Oh well...

Why do you feel RAID hurts DAW performance ?

Thanks for the reply,

Nathan
Old 22nd July 2005
  #5
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mxeryus's Avatar
 

OK, what's next ? Get some data recovery software (Easyrecovery, GetBack), cross your fingers, say all prayers twice and promise you 'll be a nice boy for the rest of your life. Be sure to have some space available on another disk (or external disk). Leave the array just as it is, but just try to recover the data.
Do not hesitate to PM me when you have any question, last week I recovered 90 GB on an external disk that had crashed.
Old 25th July 2005
  #6
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I'm no computer expert, so if there's a way to get that data back try it and best of luck, wish I knew about it when I deleted data! But it was explained to me that when RAID is set up as one big disk, as opposed to wrtiting identical info to two drives for backup purposes, that what you are essentially doing is spreading data over two drives, therefore fragmenting it. Protools didn't like that at all, maybe Nuendo is ok, don't know. Therefore, because our files were all fragmented, data recovery was not able to salvage any files. All I know is we are now not RAID, not hyperthreading, and the computer is performing like a champ, so we'll stick with it. I think the case is the RAID is theoretically faster, but USB2 is theoretically faster for audio than firewire, yet firewire is recommended over USB2. As long as you're successfully making music I guess that's all that matters, but best of luck.
Old 26th July 2005
  #7
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There are several levels of RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks). Most common are RAID1 (mirroring, all data is written to two different disks; if one fails you can fallback on the other disk), and RAID5 (data is spread over x disks including a cyclic redundancy checksum; if one disk fails you will still be able to work although performance is less then optimal). The solution you describe is called striping, where you use two ore more physical disks to create one big logical disk. Rather risky.... if one physical disk fails you are screwed.
NEVER EVER use a software raid solution, for the simple reason that whenever your software crashes all data is lost. Instead, buy a RAID adapter (with plenty of cache memory and battery backup), implement RAID1 or RAID5 and you will be much safer. Probably your audio applications will work faster as well, although I have not tried this with with ProTools nor Nuendo (maybe I will do a test in the future).
Use external USB and/or Firewire drives for extra backup or transfer ONLY. And don't forget, you can insure all your equipment but you can never insure data.
So start making a backup NOW!
Old 27th July 2005
  #8
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxeryus
There are several levels of RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks). Most common are RAID1 (mirroring, all data is written to two different disks; if one fails you can fallback on the other disk), and RAID5 (data is spread over x disks including a cyclic redundancy checksum; if one disk fails you will still be able to work although performance is less then optimal). The solution you describe is called striping, where you use two ore more physical disks to create one big logical disk. Rather risky.... if one physical disk fails you are screwed.
NEVER EVER use a software raid solution, for the simple reason that whenever your software crashes all data is lost. Instead, buy a RAID adapter (with plenty of cache memory and battery backup), implement RAID1 or RAID5 and you will be much safer. Probably your audio applications will work faster as well, although I have not tried this with with ProTools nor Nuendo (maybe I will do a test in the future).
Use external USB and/or Firewire drives for extra backup or transfer ONLY. And don't forget, you can insure all your equipment but you can never insure data.
So start making a backup NOW!

Each disk is 149GB, the RAID logical disk is the same, 149GB... This is RAID 1 right ?

Nathan
Old 27th July 2005
  #9
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Yes, with RAID1 the maximum size equals the physical size. Any luck with recovery yet ?
Old 28th July 2005
  #10
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxeryus
Yes, with RAID1 the maximum size equals the physical size. Any luck with recovery yet ?
Yes...The guy who built the machine for me, Scott Reams at liquiddaw.com ( great guy ) connected via remote assitance and had a pop. He used Easy Recovery I think.

He managed to recover everything except the most recent folder, which of course, was the one I needed.

I ended up retracking some stuff for free and giving the band a discount.

Lesson learned.

Nathan
Old 28th July 2005
  #11
I'm looking now at a PCI Raid controller to do the job of a striped raid.
sofar the only cheap one (160 euro) is an Acard PCI card.
No memory, no battery. It seems to me (supplier will get back to me with details after the holliday), this card is just as vulnerable as a softraid, because it is just a high speed (133 compared to internal 60) router.

One of you slutz have a different solution under 250 euros (limited budget due to excessive equaliser and dynamics buys ) for my G4? that 60 buss is the bottleneck I noticed. And there is hardly traffic on my PCI bus now, because my I/O is firewire....

thanks..
Old 8th August 2005
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

this is probably WAY too late, i just saw the thread.

There is an app called RSTUDIO that would no doubt be able to recover every single file, providing you had done nothing else to the drive since those 2 operations;

http://www.r-studio.com/

I have a lisenced version for my IT support business, and find it invaluable.

Matt
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