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10.4.2 is slower
Old 21st July 2005
  #1
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10.4.2 is slower

I put 10.4.2 on 2 machines is it me or does it boot slower now.
Old 21st July 2005
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S
I put 10.4.2 on 2 machines is it me or does it boot slower now.
I did not notice that but Logic does pause for a few extra seconds when it gets to the part where it is loading the midi drivers.... hmm...maybe I should check Motu updates soon.
Old 21st July 2005
  #3
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Are you on a laptop? If so, make sure that both of your memory slots are working. Hundreds of people (myself included) have posted on the Apple Discussions that the lower ram slot is dead. Currently running on the upper slot only, but my drive just about died the other day, so it looks like I'll be purchasing the Apple Care and sending it in soon.
Old 21st July 2005
  #4
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Both my machines lap top and desktop are now slower. I won't put it on my 3rd machine till I need it.
Old 21st July 2005
  #5
To my ears the sound has improved somewhat. Anybody had the same experience?

I'm going to remove the Lacie D2. Tiger is a bit slower, but who cares? The Lacie keeps falling asleep all the time. THAT is a slow disk. Makes a lot of lo freq noise too. Not something you want to have close to your ears.

Apart from some minor niggles, which are solved by installing a separate panther on the same machine, everything seems to be ok. The migration thing is awesome! The fastest clean install ever.
Old 21st July 2005
  #6
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Does anyone of you sluts use Tiger in combo with Pro Tools 6.9 ? If so how does it work ?

Thanx,
Bill
Old 22nd July 2005
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billster
Does anyone of you sluts use Tiger in combo with Pro Tools 6.9 ? If so how does it work ?

Thanx,
Bill
I am running PT 6.92cs2 with 10.4.1. So far so good, but I have been too busy to really use that machine much. I haven't had any ssues with plugins not opening, but I haven't used many yet since it was just upgraded to tiger.
Old 22nd July 2005
  #8
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Thanks for sharing your impression. I rather ask some sluts before my system breaks down within a project

Bill
Old 23rd July 2005
  #9
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As far as I am aware 10.4.2 is not slower than 10.4.1. You might want to look some general system maintenance.
Old 23rd July 2005
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billster
Does anyone of you sluts use Tiger in combo with Pro Tools 6.9 ? If so how does it work ?

Thanx,
Bill

I'm on 10.4 as of yesterday; going to add the .2 later today. So far I've noticed that I can't run as many plugins as I could before 10.4.


PTLE/002 rack/dual 2.0 G G5 6 Gigs RAM/2 x UAD cards etc...
Old 24th July 2005
  #11
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That sucks We always want at least one more plugin than the machine can handle, don´t´we ?! I mean : we´re gearslutz...
Old 24th July 2005
  #12
I have the idea that the delay is because there is some more journaling of some kind. to make it less like a unix horse gone wild.
but this is just a hunch.
Old 24th July 2005
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
I have the idea that the delay is because there is some more journaling of some kind. to make is less like a unix horse gone wild.
but this is just a hunch.

Damn straight. I'm thinking of un-Tigering my rig altogether. I was mixing last night and the fact that almost every mouse/keyboard action has a weird delay on it makes me crazy. It's a drag because this is now the path of the Mac.

And I have 6 Gigs of RAM!!!


ok...I'm gonna say it....









I'm gonna look at....







a Windows machine......
Old 24th July 2005
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signit
As far as I am aware 10.4.2 is not slower than 10.4.1. You might want to look some general system maintenance.
My powerbook is 2 months old. It's slower takes longer to boot. Apps respond slower when loading. Plus my fan runs all the time it's like a popcorn machine, it harly ever turned on before, going back to 10.4.1
Old 24th July 2005
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
I was mixing last night and the fact that almost every mouse/keyboard action has a weird delay on it makes me crazy. It's a drag because this is now the path of the Mac.

the strange thing is that in logic (using a key assign of course) there is less or no delay.
but then again the mouse has a delay. For the same functions.
the difference is small but noticable in my G4 dp.

Therefore Max, if you have a bigger delay, there is more to it than speed IMO. That G5 still, at the end of the day is a monster, compared to anything I have here. and compared with stuff from years ago, should be a rocket... this is not about processing cycles, but about buffers and intentional time lags, I'm sure. To be able to unlock those lags would be the key to more speed. Of course I don't have time or patience to go through endless programming. Let alone mess with it. Thats why I pay for an OS. Let someone else take care of thát job. Linux is simple and fast. Gearslutz want music and fast. And this is just a hunch.

(don't get me wrong. I am happy with my machine now. switched to AMT8 from Unitor8mk1 and midi is rocksolid, so is 16 ch 24bit 96 Khz i/o, with some extra softsynth and sampler processing thrown in. but I can't afford to go really funky: the limitations on the DAWs are still there, and now more noticable, because we expect different.)

computers are more and more becoming like the people/company that made it: behaving more characteristic the more complicated it gets.
Old 24th July 2005
  #16
also in another post there is a link for some software to turn parts of osx on and off.
in fact the whole app is just a shortcut..
is called clix
Old 24th July 2005
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S
My powerbook is 2 months old. It's slower takes longer to boot. Apps respond slower when loading. Plus my fan runs all the time it's like a popcorn machine, it harly ever turned on before, going back to 10.4.1
Not to keep repeating myself, but this sure sounds like a bad lower ram slot. Please check it out. Your fan should not be on all the time.

Quote:
also in another post there is a link for some software to turn parts of osx on and off.
in fact the whole app is just a shortcut..
is called clix
I don't think this software is going to help. It's just an interface for entering UNIX command line stuff. I downloaded it and I'm not even sure about how that gui works. I much prefer using Onyx.

Anyway, please use 'About this Mac' to see if all your RAM is there.
Old 25th July 2005
  #18
M2E
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I'm sorry but, I'm still on 10.3.9 and can't make a move yet until Mix+ if ever gets to be on Tiger.
But I did want to ask this. I noticed that my mouse is not accurate when doing slow movments in PT. It jumps alot. I just made the move to OSX from OS9 and noticed a few things that bothered me. Also the plugin count is not as high as in OS9. Why? Isn't OSX suppose to be alot better and faster than OS9 from my understanding? That's one reason why I moved to OSX. Plus I didn't want to get left to far behind.
Does anyone know of any tips to get OSX running smooth and fast? Sorry if I'm taking over a post. Don't mean any harm.

Thanx As Always,
M2E
Old 25th July 2005
  #19
OS X looks nice and is slow
the unix thing underneath looks ugly and is very fast

on the whole I think OS X rocks.
the work apple did on the audio and midi part also starts to look good. (as in stable)

and yeah, I know a couple of designers that still print their artwork in OS 9.
because it looks way better.
but as you probably know heh OS 9 is discontinued.

it pays to wait though to take the plunge. let us suckers figure it out. if your system works, keep on working, and do a separate partition with all the os x stuff.

hope for you that PT system doesn't go the way of my emagic unitor mk1 midi interface: discontinued, no legacy support... ai (I think the expression, "doing a digi" is taking hold in some places)
and there you have it.

if you are consumer you want bells and whistles.
if you are a pro you want to have a supported working environment
ergo they're going to sell a LOT of new boxes
Old 25th July 2005
  #20
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I'm still running 10.3.9 myself, but I may go out and buy a new G5, we'll see. I built a PC a while back, and recently tried to use a few demo versions of DAW software on it. After being on Mac for years, I can't do it.

The PC just looks intimidating if you come from a Mac. With Mac OS there are standards of the GUI that developers are supposed to adhere to. Overall the Mac just looks so much better that I can't stand to work on a PC (at this point). It troubles me, but the PC interface just is visually horrible compared to the Mac, and it affects the way my eyes and brain process information. Maybe it's just familiarity.

The beauty of Mac OS X is the functionality and simplicity of the interface. It's logical. Windows still feels scrapped together to me. OS X is light years ahead of Mac OS 9 for it's interface, but there are still a few things that are lacking, and it's certainly not faster. The Base System is a lot more bloated than OS 9 was, but it's much easier to use.

Logic Pro 7 is working fine for me on 10.3.9 so far, but I'm doing audio only stuff, no MIDI or Instruments yet. Anyway, for anyone thinking of making the switch from Mac to PC for their DAW, make sure you check it out first before spending any money. You may be sorry, unless you have a lot of patience. Luckily I can use the PC as a Fairlight Medialink server, so it is useful for something.
Old 25th July 2005
  #21
did you get the 7.1 update?
Old 26th July 2005
  #22
M2E
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When you guys say that "it works fine to me" do you just mean that it works but, not as good as OS9 or it works just as good if not better than OS9. Yeah I know the OSX has all the bells and whistles as far as looks goes but, as far as performance it is alot slower for some reason and I can put my finger on it. Also you can't get as much out of it than you can in OS9. I love the way it looks. How come they couldn't take the speed of OS9 and make it look like OSX?
Is anybody going through the jumpiness of OSX and PT's. Are you Logic people going through the same thing I'am? I know you have much more intense graphics than Pro Tools does.
I'm sooooo glad I waited at least to Panther before upgrading. I can't imagine Jaguar. That didn't stay around for long at all. Does Tiger seem to be moving a little bit faster than Panther or same speed? And do you guys think they will do a cs update for Pro Tools to work with Tiger?
Or are we dead in the water left dry to piss on dfegadProToolMix+++++++?

Thanx
M2E
Old 26th July 2005
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
OS X looks nice and is slow
the unix thing underneath looks ugly and is very fast...
As long as there aren't too many processes making calls to the Mach kernel. The Mach kernel was designed to be used in a microkernal environment. The open source Darwin layer in OS X is of a monolithic design architecture. Bit-twisters (one of which I am most certainly not) are still arguing about which type of design is better, but the upshot for OS X, with its mixed paradigm architecture, is that service calls to the Mach kernel must queue up. (Whereas, if the Mach kernal was deployed in a full microkernal environment, multiple simultaneous process communications could be occurring.)

If the number of services demanding low level access is low, most users won't notice anything. But when the number of services goes up, as in networking, OS X Server can bog way down. Supporting some processes in multiple user environments can become devastatingly slow for this reason. (Head to head tests on the same Apple hardware showed that OS X Server was as much as 10 times slower than other Unix flavors supporting applications like Apache server and MySQL when simulated user loads approach 50 simultaneous users.)


So, while it's true that Unix can be fast -- its components have to be implemented correctly in order not to hobble that potential speed and functionality.
Old 26th July 2005
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil
did you get the 7.1 update?
The upgrade disk was 7.1! I was wondering about this myself before it arrived. So, I didn't have to upgrade that at least.

It looks like I'm going to buy a Dual 2.0 ghz Power Mac tomorrow. That node thing might be alright if I buy a $300 Gigabit Ethernet PCI card, but nodes only run Logic plugins anyway.

I want to use Hydratone eq + Sonalksis (and other third-party) compressor plugins, and this old Mac sucks anyway! I ran my Powerbook G4 1.5 ghz as a firewire node, but it only did a few tracks before bugging out, so it's not worth it really unless you use the Gig Enet.

The Linear Phase eq in LP7 sounds good so far. Hydratone should be a nice addition. Which compressors do you Logic mixers like (native only, no UAD or Powercore card, etc...)?

Quote:
When you guys say that "it works fine to me" do you just mean that it works but, not as good as OS9 or it works just as good if not better than OS9?
On a 6-year old G4 AGP Power Mac with a single 1.2 ghz proc upgrade, I'm running 3 Space Designer Stereo IR Reverbs, several Linear Phase eqs, and a Guitar Amp Pro plug in on a 16-track mix (24-bit/48 khz). I can tell it's starting to get bogged down, but the audio still sounds fine. So a Dual 2.0 ghz under OS X should have plenty of power.

I have no desire to ever see Mac OS 9 again. I booted it a few weeks ago to check out some free mastering program. OS 9 sucks!
Old 26th July 2005
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdunn

It looks like I'm going to buy a Dual 2.0 ghz Power Mac tomorrow. That node thing might be alright if I buy a $300 Gigabit Ethernet PCI card, but nodes only run Logic plugins anyway.
brr a 300 USD gigabit card? that is a lot of cash.. there must be some cheaper option?
which one is it anyway?
if you do the ethernet thing, consider that OSX can send out midi through ethernet now, and using the Jack plugin, you can route audio as well.. I'm going to use a separate powerbook with just the standalone sampler, and using Spark to master as well.. then I'm not confined to the plugins.. Kontakt is standalone, and has its own (good sounding, and creative) plugins. Space designer doesn't work in node mode anyway.
Old 26th July 2005
  #26
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Reptil - I was reading in another thread that Space Designer does work in Logic Nodes. At least, that's what I thought I read. It was late last night, let me see if I can find the thread. It may have been on another forum (Sonikmatter).

My old 550 Ti Powerbook died recently anyway. So now I need this newer Al 1.5 Powerbook for internet, and like you, as a 2-track/mastering rig. I'm still using Peak 3.1, which sucks big time. I had Spark, but they killed that one. DSP Quattro can be had for $110 as an upgrade from Spark. That's what I'm going to do.

The Dual 2.0 ghz G5 should be able to run lots of cool plugins! I really do need an upgrade from this old G4 AGP. I can't even believe I'm getting as much out of it as I am. I'll use it as a Node perhaps if I need more power.
Old 26th July 2005
  #27
Cool

jdunn I bought spark and figured out to keep it going.
do not save a project, but backup a project. it will appear fully functional on the disk as untitled.blabla
then give it another name and hey presto, you can open and save this new file.
export files to waveburner, burn, put in envelope, send to......

I didn't want to learn yet another program, but that would be the logical path to take
I couldn't work good with peak either. just stops me in my tracks whenever I want to do something...

G4 rules
Old 26th July 2005
  #28
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The first Peak version that worked in OS X was so crappy that I refused to pay more for what they should have released in the first place. I guess it allowed me to get some work done.

DSP Quattro looks pretty similar to Spark. You should check it out.
Old 26th July 2005
  #29
I guess it's unavoidable isn't it
Old 26th July 2005
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
Damn straight. I'm thinking of un-Tigering my rig altogether. I was mixing last night and the fact that almost every mouse/keyboard action has a weird delay on it makes me crazy. It's a drag because this is now the path of the Mac.
As far as I can tell, this problem has completely gone away with the upgrade from 10.4 to 10.4.2.
stike stike
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