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Windows Music Software Piracy
Old 27th March 2009
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Windows Music Software Piracy

So, Prosoniq is pulling their Windows products in favour of the Mac platform, due to rampant piracy of the Windows products. This isn't the first time a music software manufacturer has pulled Windows support due to piracy either.

Now I strictly use hardware-based instruments, but I've delegated most of my recording and mastering duties to the software realm. I don't see this changing anytime soon, and in fact as I'm upgrading my system very soon I'm considering going with a PC running Windows, Cubase (since that is what I'm used to), a good sound interface (like an RME or an Apogee) and a UAD card along with some of it's corresponding mastering and effect plugins. I'm starting to think maybe the Mac would be a better platform for me to work with though...

Now we've all seen the music industry undergo radical transformations, in some ways for the better and in some ways for the worse, as a direct result of piracy. How does everyone here feel about the future of music software? Are Mac's only a temporary safe-haven, or will they soon take over as the permanent platform for serious musicians? Are there any key music programs only available for the Windows platform at the moment?

As a final note, along the lines of the UAD and the gaming software content delivery program Steam, do you think a universal dongle of sorts would help curb piracy of serious music software for Windows and other platforms? Like the UAD cards such a PCIe card could help alleviate some of the processor demands music software has, while a system similar to Steam would allow a wide-variety of software developers to release their music software with more protection. Such a system could even go to the extent making available software routines or features that normally wouldn't be available to music software otherwise. The card could even be designed to only allow operation after logging on to secure server with the card's overseers to verify software rights. This may sound extremely hypothetical, but I think many software developers could benefit from this sort of scheme, as well as serious musicians and audio engineers. Who knows, maybe this is what the future of VST technology holds?

With such uncertain times for the future of music, what does the future of music software have in store?
Old 27th March 2009
  #2
Gear Nut
 

i personally think steam works great, the only problem is you need to be connected to the internet.


as for the switching to mac because of piracy, that's not going to stop much, i know of just as many people who pirate software on mac as i do for pc.
Old 28th March 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavvok View Post
i personally think steam works great, the only problem is you need to be connected to the internet.


as for the switching to mac because of piracy, that's not going to stop much, i know of just as many people who pirate software on mac as i do for pc.
same thing i was thinking.. ive been to a few "studios" that have macs and a bunch of pirated software...
Old 28th March 2009
  #4
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavvok View Post
i personally think steam works great, the only problem is you need to be connected to the internet.


as for the switching to mac because of piracy, that's not going to stop much, i know of just as many people who pirate software on mac as i do for pc.
I know this is a very emotional topic but I actually like the iLok dongle thing.
It makes re-installing easy as no challenge/response crap is required nor is an Internet connection once you download the files to the key.

My only reservation is reliability and the fact that selling/transferring programs is convoluted because the various companies have their own policies.

I also like the fact that AFAIK the key has not been cracked yet for most of the programs which I appreciate because I pay for my software and it pisses me off when others get for free what I just paid $400 for.

That being said, piracy on the Mac is rampant but it's just hidden a little better from view as it's popularity is less overall.

I'm not sure what the solution is but for me the iLok is least painful for the moment.
Old 28th March 2009
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
I also like the fact that AFAIK the key has not been cracked yet for most of the programs which I appreciate because I pay for my software and it pisses me off when others get for free what I just paid $400 for.

Almost every plugin that requires an ilok has been cracked, and can be used illegally wthout an ilok. There is no such thing a software piracy prevention.
Old 28th March 2009
  #6
Anyone see Chris Randall's public reply to Prosoniq's declaration?

blog | analogindustries.com

Very interesting read.
Old 28th March 2009
  #7
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filin View Post
Almost every plugin that requires an ilok has been cracked, and can be used illegally wthout an ilok. There is no such thing a software piracy prevention.
Ivory latest versions haven't been AFAIK.
Cubase/Nuendo have not been accurately cracked, not iLok though, different dongle system.
I agree there is no thing as piracy prevention though.
Given enough time anything designed by humans can be cracked.

Chris Randall's response is interesting. A lot of people have had problems with PACE during the early days, including myself but it has come a long
way since then and seems to work fine for me. Like I said my concerns are hardware failure of the key and possible loss/theft of the key.
Still compared to restoring a system with challenge response, especially for a boatload of plugins, iLok is much faster.

Nothing is perfect and I think Prosoniq is making a mistake going Mac only.
Actually I remember them from the good old days but thought they had gone out of business.
Like one of the comments on the blog said, maybe they need to invest in advertising.

Cakewalk has virtually no copy protection (serial number) and they seem to survive quite well.

I'm really not sure what the solution is.
Old 28th March 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I didnt even know prosoniq was still around. they havent made anything I ever wanted since that vocoder thingy 10 years ago.
Old 28th March 2009
  #9
I had little idea who Prosoniq even is when I started reading the article. OrangeVocoder? Uh, yeah. OK. (Is there still even a vocoder market? I mean, gawd, what a dated, worn-out sound. How 90s.)

Quote:
In 2008 Prosoniq has undergone considerable internal restructuring that in the long term enables us to better create and support products based on our novel analysis and resynthesis technologies.
Having written copy for a company that was going under, I recognize the thin coat of euphemism over an aching hollow core of despair.


They say only 10% of their sales came from Windows. While there are companies who continue support for Mac products even though it only accounts for ~10% of their business -- it's a decision that each company has to make. You have to count support and development costs. I can certainly understand the fundamental issues which would factor in a decision like this.


And in these troubled times, we are going to see a VERY nasty shakeout of a lot of companies that have been hanging on by their fingernails.

Maybe this new product SonicWorx will put them back on the map. I hope so, for the men and women who may work there.

But since I apparently had little or no idea of who they were in the first place, their dropping of the Windows platform (which is what I use) is of strikingingly little import to me.

Good luck to them!


PS... one of the biggest users of pirated software I know is a Mac guy
. I keep warning him about the dangers of pirated software and warez backchannels -- but he keeps acting like he's immune. He buys all his music software (he has a finely articulated sense of ethics, if you catch my drift) but everything else is pirated.
Old 28th March 2009
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by filin View Post
Almost every plugin that requires an ilok has been cracked, and can be used illegally wthout an ilok. There is no such thing a software piracy prevention.
I think that's a gross overstatement.
Old 28th March 2009
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

I understand Prosoniq's stance in a way. It's sickening to have your hard work ripped off on a regular basis. They are not so on the ball with Mac either though. I haven't been able to use my Orange Vocoda on Pro Tools since I moved to an Intel Mac. For some reason Prosoniq gave it to Digidesign and stopped support on the platform most likely to pay for the product. I would gladly play an upgrade to get mine working again.
Old 28th March 2009
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
Anyone see Chris Randall's public reply to Prosoniq's declaration?

blog | analogindustries.com

Very interesting read.
It's pretty high on the Snarkiness Quotient... but it's an entertaining little diatribe that makes some pretty solid points.
Old 28th March 2009
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
It's pretty high on the Snarkiness Quotient... but it's an entertaining little diatribe that makes some pretty solid points.
That's just how he writes, the tone of it is not unusual (for Chris), but I find it highly entertaining and CR is a very clever guy who is definitely onto something with what he's saying!
Old 28th March 2009
  #14
Here for the gear
 

From my perspective, if Prosoniq had offered an Orange Vocoder that ran on Intel in the last year, they would have had some cash from me. The fact they didn't is their loss.

If dropping Windows support means they can actually keep up with supporting their stuff for Mac, I'm all for it. Better to do one thing well than two things poorly.
Old 28th March 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I had little idea who Prosoniq even is when I started reading the article. OrangeVocoder? Uh, yeah. OK.
I think they did the time/pitch algorithms in Nuendo too (not sure what N4 or Cubase use).

Thanks for the article links, good reads!

- former Mac user not in favor of the whole Mac only thing
Old 31st March 2009
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I think that's a gross overstatement.


Doesn't matter what you think, all software is crackable.
Old 31st March 2009
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

I expect it's true that all software can be cracked if you spend enough time at it. The good thing about iLok is that it makes life a little easier for those that are paying. Some of us have to support the people making the products or suffer instability in our recording environment.
Old 31st March 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
the only thing they made that was good was time factory mpex
and it's included free with Nuendo and Cubase it has been for years
Old 31st March 2009
  #19
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feck's Avatar
Ilok on Mac hasn't been cracked as far as I have ever heard. I see people all of the time complaining about ilok, but my 2 cents are -
every software developer should ilok or syncrosoft their stuff. Then it won't be cracked on Mac. PC, well, that is a different story. But I don't know anyone running a professional studio who uses PC (I know there are some, but my point is that most commercial studios use Mac and pay for what they use). Any money making studio that steals software deserves to be broken into and have a mic or 2 stolen. See how the shoe fits on the other foot!
Old 31st March 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 

The only reason why iLoks and the like have not been cracked for OSX is the same reason why viruses aren't widespread for OSX: smaller userbase. Quite frankly, the person who rampantly pirates software is more than likely not going to spend the kind of money a Mac costs so they're more likely to use Windows. More demand for cracks for Windows software = more supply of it. Pretty simple.
Old 31st March 2009
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by filin View Post
Doesn't matter what you think, all software is crackable.
Not at all dude. Many things have never been cracked...maybe someday they get cracked, maybe not. Cubase 4 was never cracked, like so many other softwares out there.

People who makes cracks are usually independent individuals doing cracks just to develop their skills as programmers, so they can get a real job and earn money - heard that from a cracker some time ago in a gig we were playing together. He is a known electronic music producer and at that time he was involved with one of the "major" crack groups around - don't ask me which one, I'm not telling it. LOL
Old 31st March 2009
  #22
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lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogo_c View Post
Not at all dude. Many things have never been cracked...maybe someday they get cracked, maybe not. Cubase 4 was never cracked, like so many other softwares out there.

People who makes cracks are usually independent individuals doing cracks just to develop their skills as programmers, so they can get a real job and earn money - heard that from a cracker some time ago in a gig we were playing together. He is a known electronic music producer and at that time he was involved with one of the "major" crack groups around - don't ask me which one, I'm not telling it. LOL
Cubase 4 has been cracked, FYI.

And you're referring to the group Radium.
Old 31st March 2009
  #23
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Dysanfel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selidor View Post
I'm considering going with a PC running Windows, Cubase (since that is what I'm used to), a good sound interface (like an RME or an Apogee)
Apogee has pulled future Windows support as well.
Old 31st March 2009
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
zabukowski's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
Cubase 4 has been cracked, FYI.

And you're referring to the group Radium.
Cubase 4 has not been (sucessfully) cracked, in fact, none of the software using Syncrosoft protection has been cracked for last few years.

Obviously, Syncrosoft learned a lot from SX3 protection fiasco and H2O is not active, anymore Interesting thing is, that Steinberg has recently bought Syncrosoft company.

On the other hand, most of the products using iLok has been cracked on Windows !

Regards
Old 31st March 2009
  #25
Gear Addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 


when and what was the most recent plug for windows? if you show no real interest in the market they'll show none to you. i don't know about the mac side but they've been surpassed by a ****load of pc plug dev's, i'd sooner check some synth-edit plugs before i check to see if they've updated their vocoder. this reminds me of the dev that did devine machine, he blamed piracy but honestly, despite the niche kvr love, folks weren't going crazy for it, and it wasn't being pirated on the scale of waves, or even guru, which was part of they're original development (which fxpansion got outright and vastly improved).

yes, piracy is bad but it's impossible to determine how much real business is lost as there's no way to guage if those people would buy it in the first place. some are 'hobbyist', some are 'pro's', some are just internet collectors
Old 31st March 2009
  #26
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Ilok is a failure. One of my fellows showed me that 99% of the plugs are "free" on the net, for mac, and for windows too.
With this in mind, I think we, paying users are punished.
I don't know how can this be changed.
Tamas Dragon
Old 31st March 2009
  #27
Gear Addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 

ilok was a failure, not so much currently. the new version might be cracked again in the near future and i doubt it's as solid as syncro but they're ahead of scene crackers for now
Old 31st March 2009
  #28
Lives for gear
 
lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Cubase 4 has not been (sucessfully) cracked, in fact, none of the software using Syncrosoft protection has been cracked for last few years.

Obviously, Syncrosoft learned a lot from SX3 protection fiasco and H2O is not active, anymore Interesting thing is, that Steinberg has recently bought Syncrosoft company.

On the other hand, most of the products using iLok has been cracked on Windows !

Regards
Well, there is no point in arguing about this. I searched a couple of popular torrent sites and there are cracked versions of Cubase 4 out there. Saying it isn't so doesn't make it true.

There is not, and never will be, copy protection which cannot be cracked. Tying the software to specific hardware (where the hardware is actually required and can't merely be emulated) might be a reasonable solution.
Old 31st March 2009
  #29
Gear Addict
 
7thangelz's Avatar
 

you're wrong,

just because a p2p has a link or a dl doesn't mean it's actually real or working. i'm on a few regular music sites that openly discuss that ****, as well as, places where i get my tv shows, the people in that scene and those running p2p sites will tell you that cubase 4 (not cubase a14/studio or whatever one doesn't require syncro and such) isn't cracked. having it on the comp but unable to use or having their system crashed doesn't constitute cracked. syncro is winning, point blank. no plugs using it since they fixed the earlier copy protection has been successfully broken, i don't think ilok will be able to hold up as i doubt it would be as much as a task as apparently syncro was previously.
Old 1st April 2009
  #30
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lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thangelz View Post
you're wrong,

just because a p2p has a link or a dl doesn't mean it's actually real or working. i'm on a few regular music sites that openly discuss that ****, as well as, places where i get my tv shows, the people in that scene and those running p2p sites will tell you that cubase 4 (not cubase a14/studio or whatever one doesn't require syncro and such) isn't cracked. having it on the comp but unable to use or having their system crashed doesn't constitute cracked. syncro is winning, point blank. no plugs using it since they fixed the earlier copy protection has been successfully broken, i don't think ilok will be able to hold up as i doubt it would be as much as a task as apparently syncro was previously.
I found plenty of threads where people discussed it working fine on their machines. We'll have to just agree to disagree.
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