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Famous Fun Thread: Analog v. Digital--Which is "The King" of great sound quality
Old 20th October 2005
  #751
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B


As I said, "All digital is obsolete on the day it was designed."
Wrong!

It's obsolete the second after you brought it, and it's specifically design for that purpose!

A SWATCH watch was designed to run for a year or two, but it was a lost that many run for 5 years or more, and the consumer doesn't get a new one.

The business with digital is the same as with wool underware, if it's too good, your're bancrupt.
Old 20th October 2005
  #752
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 

Of course you are also right. However, in digital, as soon as anything gets off the design board and into production, they are already working on a "Version 2" which will be a better version, cost less, and do more. So in this sense:

Everything in digital is obsolete on the day it was designed.
Old 21st October 2005
  #753
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 

In addition to all froms of previously ordered punishment, the Honorable Law Lords should also order:

That the Digital Math Scoundrels be flogged to within an inch of their bloody stinkin' lives.
Old 21st October 2005
  #754
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.............take your meds.
Old 21st October 2005
  #755
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Now with that post are you suggesting that all the ****ty Silly Con **** chip products put out by the Digital Math Scoundrels either drive people insane from the pain which requires them to take pain medication, or, is it merely implied that the digital sound quality is so awful, boring, cold, and lifeless, that it puts people into a Zombie-like state of sleep?

Either way---

Analogue Rules!
Old 22nd October 2005
  #756
Lives for gear
 

No, I'm suggesting that you're a nut case and should seek professional help and get some meds if you don't have them already. You'll feel much better, and hopefully, you won't hurt anyone.
Old 22nd October 2005
  #757
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
Now with that post are you suggesting that all the ****ty Silly Con **** chip products put out by the Digital Math Scoundrels either drive people insane from the pain which requires them to take pain medication, or, is it merely implied that the digital sound quality is so awful, boring, cold, and lifeless, that it puts people into a Zombie-like state of sleep?

Either way---

Analogue Rules!

rock on johnny b
the best have the courage to follow
their gut and the persistence
to see it through........
if this thread get's to
20,000, i may just send you
some tape

digital just doesn't really sound that good
even the cd will reveal the original
source within a few bars......


be well

- jack
Old 23rd October 2005
  #758
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 

Oh boy...free tape...

Can you send that Studer tape machine that Walter Sear got from Abbey Road along with it? That would really make my day.

In fact, box up Walter and send him over as well...

Now that, would really, really, really make my day!!!!!!!!!!



Now for those who do not understand the King's English---

Lemme say this very, very, simply....

Digital sucks...

Analogue Rules!
Old 23rd October 2005
  #759
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
Oh boy...free tape...
Digital sucks...

Analogue Rules!
Wrong !

Steam machines rule !

Studer machines you can pick up at my place by the dozens, 1000 bucks each, still circa 28 left. The steam machine is a bit more expensive.
Old 23rd October 2005
  #760
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloClematide
Studer machines you can pick up at my place by the dozens, 1000 bucks each, still circa 28 left.
Please tell more details. Thanks.
Old 23rd October 2005
  #761
Gear Addict
 

in the storage room:

Studer machines

A80R
A80
A807
A810
B62
B67

total 66 machines in the storage room, prices $ 400 to 1200
Old 23rd October 2005
  #762
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 

66 machines is quite a treasure chest.

Have they been maintained?

Are they all in good working condition?

Do they come with any kind of warranty?
Old 23rd October 2005
  #763
Gear Addict
 

They have been maintained.

Two have a repairable defect (Power), and the price is also lower.

No warranty. You can check them at the place.

-

We make you a good price when you take them all !!!
Old 24th October 2005
  #764
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

LOL, that's pretty funny "take them all..."

I would not have room for all 66 machines!

However, if you have a link, which includes the logs of how they have been maintained, I'm sure you will get some serious enquiries.
Old 24th October 2005
  #765
Gear Addict
 

Here is a list of all material in storage:

http://decoflex.ch/

click:

> GÄSTE > Wählen Sie eine Rubrik > Occ.-Geräte SFDRS > Wähen Sie ein Untermenu > Tonbandgeräte

you are there, prices in Swiss francs, click in the white field, and scroll.

-

contact:

Decoflex XXL GmbH
Rheinfelderstrasse 42
4450 Sissach
Switzerland

Telefon: +41 61 953 01 01
FAX: +41 61 953 01 04
Email: [email protected]


TOP SECRET - DON'T TELL ANYONE, AND DON'T MENTION MY NAME, OR HE WILL CHARGE YOU THE DOUBLE !!!!

.
Old 24th October 2005
  #766
Gear Maniac
 
Mrs. Fairman's Avatar
 

New Master-Tape-Recorder-Recording Service

Hi
New Master-Tape-Recorder-Recording Service
Dirk

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/46633-new-master-tape-recorder-recording-service.html
Old 24th October 2005
  #767
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 

Yeah, that's right.

People should never forget that they can hire rooms with great analogue gear for reasonable prices that will result in getting "That" sound.

Fat, warm, and full of life!
Old 24th October 2005
  #768
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

johnny b, if you want an amazing new gold edition studer with warranty and 10
years of support from studer at an unbelievable price, call sye mitchell in la



- jack
Old 25th October 2005
  #769
Here for the gear
 

content trancends medium

every single time.,,

having said that, listen to Fagan's Kamakiriad vs SD's Aja. Both recordings sound great, but I'd have to side with Aja as having many of the things we associate with analog.

digital feelings: sometimes when i hear crackly down-sampled stuff i get chills, like an old girlfriend is contacting me through the Van Allen belts and she's breaking up. what is this feeling? i don't know, but you can't get it from analog. entire forms of music are possible because of digital, we need digital to expand the range of what can be felt and expressed.

i mix with PT on an analog desk because i like the working style and it sounds better to my ears. but that could be an illusion - it certainly sounds different. but i can tell 16/44.1 to 24/48 to 24/96 very easily when set side by side, so my ears aren't complete crap (yet.) i do not like mp3's at all and think charging for them is kind of weird.

for songs where real people are singing and playing stuff, my preference is 2-inch sixteen, good pres, mixing through a classic console. we really have not improved on how that sounds in a way that is musically meaningful. it is a smooth and flatterng sound in the hands of somebody good.

but digital means more people can participate, it's way more democratic. i say hell yes to that.

RF
Old 26th October 2005
  #770
Gear Head
 

Quote from PARIS forum: and very true!
It's going to be somewhat level dependant really, and how much you want to
push the bus. Paris takes this quite well, and if you set up the global
fader (master) at something like -0.3 db, you will 'never' see an over a
convertor can't handle.. it's not possible that I've ever seen. Technically
at 0.0 dB you shouldn't but in the real world Joe Schmoe and his $35 Wal
Mart CD player will have badly calibrated convertors, resulting in horrible
pops... so I lower to -0.3 dB as a safety net against that.
The thing is use your ears and watch the meters. You can _definitely_ squash
the life out of the mix if you over do it. One thing I can just about
guarantee you is that pro tools cannot do this trick now or in the past...
and certainly not to the hot output levels that Paris handles w/o squishing
the snot out of your program. PT guys have to mix low and master the signal
up as a basic rule, or it sounds funky and in a box. PT has gotten much much
better than it used to be, but I'm playing with the newest versions of it
here and I it still don't hang with the paris mix bus IMO. Mileage will
vary, of course

I was showing this very trick to a friend of mine last night. We took his
demo quick mix and pushed about 10.5 dB more out of it, and everything just
got fatter, thicker and louder.
Try it, you'll like it:

Kill the threshold (go to 0 dB), kill the ratio (1:1) and start jacking up
the gain out. Don't watch the gain knob. Listen. Once you hear it start to
mess with the mix tones, back off a coupla dB. Now look at the setting.. and
believe your eyes, it's for real.

AA
Old 26th October 2005
  #771
Gear Addict
 

"pushed about 10.5 dB more out of it, and everything just
got fatter, thicker and louder"

Johnny is not gonna like that, no not at all... heh
Old 26th October 2005
  #772
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Ugh!...
Old 27th October 2005
  #773
never mind johnny.. PARIS is from 1997..

so it's digital VINTAGE gear
Old 27th October 2005
  #774
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

///

Maybe the pressing issue for the Digital Math Scoundrels is "Will you ever get it right? How many faiilues and lame ass excuses do you expect people to buy, they cannot be conned with your Digital Math Scoundrel BS forever."


///
Old 28th October 2005
  #775
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bcgood's Avatar
 

My 50 Cents

I'm new to this thread but I wanted to add my 2 er 50 cents or 40 acres and a jack ass, whatever. At any rate sonically all of my favorite albums where recorded analogue. I listen to bands like Bob Marley and the Wailers and The Police, Talking Heads etc. and I thank God that they recorded those albums analogue. As far as the whole CD debate I kind of disagree. I think that CD's sound pretty good to my ears. The main difference that I hear is how the recordings where originally made and Analogue sounds sooo much better than digital to my ears... I import most of my albums from CD into my iTunes as uncompressed waves and the sound quality sounds great to me...

Bart
Old 28th October 2005
  #776
Here for the gear
 

Analog, because...

it encourages people to play together.

when you cut and paste and pitch-correct, what exactly are you leaving to history? certainly not a performance.

Cowboy Junkies Trinity Session - live to R-DAT. i got no problems with that recording. it might have sounded better on 1/2 inch 2-track, but the best part of that recording is the vibe.

nothing beats people who are well rehearsed and emoting in front of microphones. nothing. everything else is pretending. digital encourages FEARFUL thinking and a certain laziness of musicianship.

analog punishes the unprepared. it also inspires artists to give their very best.

never pitch correct - it's unethical.

people look to music for truth, why serve them anything less?

RF
Old 29th October 2005
  #777
The timekeeping on that album makes me seasick.

But I agree, it has a nice coherency that's often missing in todays cut-n-paste albums.

That said -- I was a whiz with a razorblade back in my analog days.

And a good editor, too. heh

[Chikka, chikka chikka...]


[PS... dangerous drugs are bad and dangerous drugs that make you stupid are especially bad... I have seen it all -- or as close to all as I ever want to get... just buried another friend over the last weekend... he'd been sober for over a decade up until about two years ago... but he got a little cocky and thought he could let himself drink a few beers just like 'anyone else' and that went okay so he drank a few more and then, over time, he did a little crank and then, later, some coke and then some heroin (because, see, he'd been a crackhead in the bad old days so he didn't think he would be particularly susceptible to H's wily charms)... whaddya know, it was a speedball that got him... They don't call it the slippery slope for nothing.]
Old 29th October 2005
  #778
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Hmmmm, sorry 'bout your friend...that's a sad story...

What people also need to understand is that it's an established scientific fact that listening to digital sound has directly contributed to increased drug abuse, overdoses, and even teen suicide. In fact, digital sound is so bad that it drives some adults to commit suicide as well.

And who is responsible for this increase in human misery? Who is making obscene profits from it? Why yes, it's none other than those low-down, dirty lyin' bastard Digital Math Scoundrels.

All these criminal scumbag Digital Math Scoundrels should be locked up!
Old 29th October 2005
  #779
Here for the gear
 

RCA B - Time the Revelator

i like the sound of this record. it's on a CD. digital sounds fabulously warm here.

yet it originated on old analog stuff. could a good engineer get "that sound" with a DAW and some plug-ins? i think so. but why should this be a goal?

is the warmth we associate with analog simply an adjective that "older" people refer to, as in, a psychoacoustic hangover from yester-year? or is there something explicable going on? there can be a husky intelligibility to good tape recordings. it's along the lines of acoustic saliency or something: the darks remain dark, and light seems foregrounded in a way that does not overbear. i can't quite hear everything, but thats a good thing.

perhaps this is more like the experience we have with our senses.

maybe too much sonic information is distracting. as Clearmountain once said "digital sits in front of the speakers more..." hmm. maybe some elements should be murky, and in so doing, parallel the human unconscious. mystery and the unkown are part and parcel of spiritual experience after all.

sometimes i feel the art of recording music is to simultaneously present clarity and obsfucation, light and dark, mystery.

i'm saying, do not use HD photography on your grandmother. she will not appear dignified. give her the gift of adumbrative obsfucation.

RF
Old 31st October 2005
  #780
The Distressor's "daddy"
 
Dave Derr's Avatar
 

Ear Fatique and Intermodulation Distortion

Ive said all this before in different ways, but there are a couple things that are irrefutable in my book.

thumbsup Digital linearity cannot be duplicated with analog tape. I think modern digital recorders are much more accurate than any analog tape deck. Only at the extreme high frequencies does digital start to phase shift and have any problem, but this is above most of our hearing.
thumbsup Analog tends to flatten out transient peaks. This nonlinearity keeps all the spikes from snares, horns, vocals, guitars etc from being as large as they would be if not recorded to analog tape. This transient clipping smashes transients before our ears get them, preventing our ears from dealing with spikes 3 - 20 dB above the rest of a track. Ears have a protection mechanism that "compresses" transient or loud peaks. If analog tape gets them first, our ears do not have to deal with them so much. Repeated s***** snare drums can cause our ears to clamp down hundreds of times a song. This is what I think most people refer to as Digital Fatique. It IS a real phenomena. That being said, a good engineer can temper these spikes in an all digital world. Fast compressors, tubes, and soft clip circuits can do it. Our Fatso was largely designed while listening and looking at peaky signals, to help soften this "digititis."
thumbsup Another real phenomena of analog is that it is a huge dynamic filter as well as a soft clipper. With complex source material, the frequency response changes constantly! Although its probably not the best term, I call this frequency or musical "integration", because it helps fit different frequencies together and generally doesnt let any frequency poke out so far. When you have a lot of instruments hitting at the same time, huge spikes in the frequency response can occur. This "pile up" often isn't handled linearly with tape. Instead, the tape kind of fits the frequencies together, one frequency often affecting the other frequency thru self erasure, and saturation. This can be very musical and pleasant to the ear, and I think explains why many major mix engineers use an analog 2 track for the final mixes. Even if the tracks are digital, the mixdown deck will help fit and tame frequency pile-ups.

At least now, there are a few devices out there that do a very similar thing, emulating the 2 track analog recorders saturation and frequency integration... without TAPE.
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