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Famous Fun Thread: Analog v. Digital--Which is "The King" of great sound quality
Old 7th August 2005
  #361
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blaugruen7's Avatar
johnny b,
but now one single question and then we can finish.
what do you like more, analogue or digital?
Old 7th August 2005
  #362
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

That's a great question.

I loved the *potential* of what digital was *supposed* to deliver. The only problem is that the Digital Math Scoundrels have made so many blunders, those blunders are so frequent in occurrence that they like to make all the errors sound like they are no big deal by calling them things like "anomalies."

Digital "Anomalies" is a nice way of saying digital sound is so full of math errors that they all add up to make digital sound quality trail far behind the King of Sound Quality---Analogue.

Using terms like "Digital Math Anomalies" is another way that the Digital Math Scoundrels at the chip makers lie to people.

And big liars like the Digital Math Scoundrels should be punished.
Old 7th August 2005
  #363
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

i heard an mp3 last night for the first time in awhile, and it was rough, real
rough........how anyone puts up with that sound is just incomprehensible -
a 99 cent cassette recorded for the 18th time is a more pleasant way of
hearing music.............at least 20 times i've had people (not engineers) explain
to me that there is no audible difference between the mp3 and the cd..........

at least my studer tech informed me yesterday that virtually everyone who
has an A827 here in new york is using them every day............August 2005

even p-diddy, who apparently is lucky enough to have just installed a neve
with flying faders...........

in another month there will be 3 tape manufacturers, and quantegy has
GP9, 456 & 499 on the shelves all over the country............today

use your ears,

if you think digital sounds better, that's fine, if you're parotting someone else
and saying "pro tools sounds 95% as good" without any personal , empirical
experience, you are selling yourself short..........

many of the best and the brightest have put a lot of effort in to keeping
this medium alive - spend a couple of days in an analog facility before making
up your mind

that being said , don't let anything stop you from making music; if i hadn't started
with the tascam da-88, i may never have had the revulsion that led me to give
up my life to build an analog studio - but the records that got made on those
videotapes had to get made when they got made...............


be well

- jack
Old 7th August 2005
  #364
Gear Maniac
 

Since this thread is going nowhere :-) you might want to check this:
http://www.recordproduction.com/mpg-...e05-video.html
Old 7th August 2005
  #365
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bunnerabb's Avatar
Quote:
at least 20 times i've had people (not engineers) explain
to me that there is no audible difference between the mp3 and the cd
Yeah.. and McNuggets are just as tasty as coc au vin.

Old 7th August 2005
  #366
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by yore
Since this thread is going nowhere :-) you might want to check this:
http://www.recordproduction.com/mpg-...e05-video.html
Yore...
Gracias for the link...cool.
thumbsup

Interesting... most of them prefered Radar over analog.
Old 7th August 2005
  #367
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

i couldn't finish watching the link because the download doesn't offer the
resolution .............
i agree that this thread is not really going anywhere, but, like i have said, i
encourage people to use their own ears,

in my studio i have one of the 24 16 track blocks built by studer as the last revision
of 16's in 2000 - it is amazing........

i have pro tools 192 and an apogee rosetta 200 - i know that these are not
mytek or lavry gold, etc......., but in this setting, it would be almost impossible
to imagine someone not prefering the tape unless they had some real hearing
damage.........

but as i said, i use both, i would love to get a dsd workstation to use in place of
protools - right now, for my ears i think it will be many years before something
sounds better than 2" -16

in my mind, if you have not sat in the same room, listening to three playbacks -
one from tape, one from digital and one from the tape transfered to digital, ideally
with the abililty to synch them and mute certain tracks, you haven't really
heard what's going on......

i'm going to move on to that other hybrid thread soon; this thread is frustrating -
for all we know johnny b has nothing more than a transistor radio he listens to -
and, as i've said i use pro tools and logic ; i accept that they exist ; i think its great that people can work on records in 10 different studios......i live in a hybrid world

be well

- jack
Old 8th August 2005
  #368
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

While I could care less about the personal pot shots taken at me because I actually don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of me, I thought some of the earlier personal pot shots taken at Steve Albini and Walter Sear were uncalled for, highly unprofessional, and nothing more than cheap shots.

Both these gentlemen have done some fine work and are deserving of some civilised treatment even if one happens to disagree with them.

Well it's been fun and great to know that most of the people who have actually listened to analogue vs. digital agree that digital sound quality still sucks and

Analogue *is* the undisputed King of Sound Quality.
Old 8th August 2005
  #369
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bunnerabb's Avatar
You better have some big goobs and a serious demo reel to shove under my nosey before you start dissing Walter Sear, kids.
Old 8th August 2005
  #370
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
While I could care less about the personal pot shots taken at me
[.[/b]

if this is in reference to my comment, johnny b, it is simply a statement of
curiosity as to what sort of stuff you work on..........

walter sear knows what he's talking about, even in the field of digital.......
he's a great guy to talk to, i was working with a walter sear trained engineer
today - both of the sear trained engineers i work with are excellent.........

no one's ever regretted making a record on tape...........

be well

- jack
Old 8th August 2005
  #371
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnerabb
You better have some big goobs and a serious demo reel to shove under my nosey before you start dissing Walter Sear, kids.


Walter Sear has something like 225 mics, all standed and ready to go! I also like the hand drawn picture that John Lennon did of Walter behind his desk...He also popped the top of the tape machine he got from Abbey Road's basement and showed me how he was lovingly restoring and rebuilding it.

Walter Sear is a pro's pro who has some rather serious issues with digital's crappy sound quality. I think he's spot on about digital still being on the amateur side when it comes to sound quality.
Old 8th August 2005
  #372
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

the other thing to note about walter is that although he still prefers analog, he
knows more about digital than the most rabid poster on this forum, and is
always learning - my friend scott who was here yesterday - the sear trained engineer - spoke about dsd
and dsd converter listening sessions that walter hosted at least three years
ago................and how genuinely impressed he was........
walter's studer tech just gave my machine a once over and it's sounding
great...........


be well

- jack
Old 8th August 2005
  #373
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Right, Walter Sear said he liked SACD better, but it still was *not* good enough compared to analogue. I agree with him.
Old 8th August 2005
  #374
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

i agree with him as well.........

imagine if 1/10 of digital's resources had been put into further improvements
in analog technology........you are already starting from such a good place.....
i'm very curious to try mike spitz's new tape.........


be well

- jack
Old 8th August 2005
  #375
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Right.

I'd imagine that well over 1/10th of the resources spent on digital went for the worthless bastard Digital Math Scoundrels at the chip companies, if we eliminated all of them, fired them all, sent them all into permanent exile, or better yet, to prison for fraud, and we redeployed all those expensive resources in a more productive manner, then we might get somewhere that does no further harm to sound quality and might actually improve "sound quality."
Old 8th August 2005
  #376
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Mrs. Fairman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom
i agree with him as well.........

imagine if 1/10 of digital's resources had been put into further improvements
in analog technology........you are already starting from such a good place.....
i'm very curious to try mike spitz's new tape.........


be well

- jack

I wait already impatiently for the new tape. That again tape of Mike Spitz could be better than the GP9????

Mike... please .. we wait, with open arms
Old 9th August 2005
  #377
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Hmmm...Yes....

Sometimes we have to defer instant gratification and be patient in order to get that great sound quality that most people here are chasing.

But as far as being patient with the Digital Math Scoundrels...these guys have been jerking people around with their damn lies for 25 years!

And the Digital Math Scoundrels still don't have it right after 25 bloody years!

Shoot 'em. Hang 'em. Make them eat garbage. Clearly, some kind of punishment is in order for these bastard Digital Math Scoundrels.

I wonder if these asshole chip companies will get it right with the Next Gen Chips or will they just strap a bag on their silicon pieces of **** and tell more big lies.
Old 9th August 2005
  #378
Quote:
i heard an mp3 last night for the first time in awhile, and it was rough, real
rough........how anyone puts up with that sound is just incomprehensible -
a 99 cent cassette recorded for the 18th time is a more pleasant way of
hearing music.............at least 20 times i've had people (not engineers) explain
to me that there is no audible difference between the mp3 and the cd..........
first: MP3 is outdated dude
second: if 20 people (your non-engeneers) say, they can't hear the diffrence, WHAT THE HELL are you arguing? do you do your music for other eng.??

On what kind of stereo do you play your music? on High end tube amped bitches with high fidelity class A speakers?
Normal folks listen to music on IPOD or carhifi..

this is just like "I like driving Ferrari but the ****in speedlimitation on the motorways tend me to have a maximumspeed of (dont know) 60miles"..

a lot of blah blah.. sorry dude



here we go.. I mix in the box because I can't afforf analog gear. With my "Analogue"-exprience I had you can driver levels much hotter than in digital and there is a lot of lowend in anloguemixes.

I like recording with an A/D/Nuendo and then mix it in analogue.. best of botch worlds..

cheers george
Old 9th August 2005
  #379
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

i do my music for people who have invested $1500 or more in a good turntable/phono pre/cartridge situation - freaks - obsessive music people................
i encourage all of my clients to make a seperate all analog
master for vinyl - i have just heard the third of these come to fruition.........
cut by kevin gray in la.........the fourth is about to take place.....

if it works in this context it will translate to the others.........

i would love to see legislation that seperates the intellectual copyright from
the delivery mechanism - ie , as a registered owner,
you can get a good deal buying the download
and the vinyl - different things for different situations......

be well

- jack
Old 9th August 2005
  #380
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola
first: MP3 is outdated dude
Yes, all things digital were obsolete on the day they were designed.
Old 11th August 2005
  #381
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

For the digital lovers, they might be able to help improve the sound of digital if they were able to list some of the worst problems with digital and then propose solutions.
Old 11th August 2005
  #382
Here for the gear
 

He's baaaack....

Hi JohnnyB! I think I have it figured out. You have a bet with someone about how long you can keep the thread going, right?

Well since you bumped it yourself...

The biggest problem with digital audio is that too many people who use it suck as audio engineers.

Solution: Kill all the audio engineers. No wait, that's too good for em. Audio engineers who use digital and sound like crap should be made to listen to mp3s while they are flagelated by lawyers. That would be a start!

zip
Old 11th August 2005
  #383
Gear Addict
 
rlnyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
Which technology has the superior sound quality...

A. Analogue

B. Digital

tape can have a more pleasing and euphonic quality, but it is not "better," and it won't keep repeating that beauty if you play the tape too much. digital is almost there in accurate reproduction but is like outdoor photography. sometimes not flattering. but it repeats again and again with no degradations.

best regards,
rlnyc
Old 11th August 2005
  #384
Gear Addict
 
rlnyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
And if you had an unlimited budget...which technology would you choose?...digital or analogue.
for some things tape, but for most, digital.

me, i only use digital for storage. i do not work in the box and have no mouse at my studio, just an analogue board and gear.

best,
rlnyc
Old 11th August 2005
  #385
Gear Nut
 

I think there's a bit of a communication breakdown in this thread.

The analogue guys are talking about purely recording, stuff actually going onto the tape; something that's actually pretty straightforward and small in the scope of what is done in a studio (although it is the most important).

The digital guys don't just think about "recording to hdd" when they're talking about digital stuff... they're also thinking about things like say... additive resynthesis, for example. Something that analogue stuff can never ever do, ever. How do you go about comparing a sound like that when there exists no analogue equivalent?

As for sound quality, I must really stress that this is a moot point. As long as the recording and mastering engineers don't do anything enourmously stupid (such as overcompressing a record to just below the point of digital clipping), stuff sounds pretty damn amazing on either medium. The real advantage of digital is that it makes everyone's life a hell of alot easier. When things are easier, there's more of a tendency for people who don't know what they're doing to be doing the important stuff. The only people who are going to really bitch about it are people like Johnny B, and the folks who flip through stuck-together semen-encrusted pages of "Stereophile" drooling over a $15,000 turntable.
Old 12th August 2005
  #386
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
For the digital lovers, they might be able to help improve the sound of digital if they were able to list some of the worst problems with digital and then propose solutions.
more DSP needed, constantly.... build bigger and faster computers.

also more audio enthused programmers are always needed...

and quit "modelling" old gear. make something new and fresh.


analog still sucks in comparison.
Old 12th August 2005
  #387
Gear Head
 
Marty Shields.'s Avatar
 

Wow, Cant someone see the big picture?
What a silly question, all tools for makin the art are great!,
Marty, Martstone TAS.
Old 12th August 2005
  #388
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

grado platinum cartridge - $300
grado phono pre - $ 500
Technics turntable - $ 700

______________

Total : $1500

this and an eye for good vinyl will get you better
sound than cd's - lows you can feel, highs that don't hurt -
and most of all space and depth
it will make you think a lot about recording mediums
as well......

check it out - if you are obsessed with music that's not a lot of money

be well


- jack
Old 12th August 2005
  #389
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

i have heard turntable systems with the cartridge costing more than that whole setup... and a definate vinyl enthusiast with pretty pristine vinyl. the NOISE of vinyl still gets in the way of MY enjoyment [and i hope you are putting the platter in another room with isolation].


besides, i have a sub in my setup.... i can FEEL the lows just fine.
Old 12th August 2005
  #390
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

to my ears there are lows that come from tape and vinyl that i've never heard
elsewhere.........sub or no sub -

they are just gone after the conversion............

the turntable is not isolated.........
i have no problem with noise on stuff that's clean
i'm only two years into my vinyl resurgence.......
when it's good - even with my entry leval
system listed above - which also goes through
the UA610 on its way to being audible -
it has a sparkle and depth that i don't hear
from cd's, nor do i hear it from apogee
converters running 24/192
there's more magic on vinyl released 40 years ago.......

i honestly wish i felt differently, i really do.......
it would make more sense to be in synch
with the world.....it would ease metaphysical dilemas
i have with the sonic direction this industry has
taken

but all i've got is my ears...........
and while my opinion is shared by many, i know it
is highly subjective.......

be well

- jack
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