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Who's tooling up for Mac's Intel chip
Old 26th June 2005
  #1
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

Who's tooling up for Mac's Intel chip

NOT A MAC GOING PC THREAD! PLEASE DON'T START. tutt

Have there been any official announcements from the Audio Software world about aligning their programs for the new Intel chip sets and what effect it'll have on the layout of the software? I've talked with a couple of the companies and have yet to get an official answer. As usual, a vague, unofficial confirmation, in the form of "We've always backed Mac" from MOTU on DP is the best I've come up with. I'm sure they'll write the software to match the chip but, my fear is investing, LEARNING and using a piece of software that the format will change on and I'd have to learn it all over again. Does anyone know what effect the new chips will have on the program layouts?
Old 27th June 2005
  #2
This thread in another forum suggests that at least some of the conversion may be quite straightforward.
Old 27th June 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 
max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJack
I'm sure they'll write the software to match the chip but, my fear is investing, LEARNING and using a piece of software that the format will change on and I'd have to learn it all over again.
Yes, I doubt the experience will change much.
Old 27th June 2005
  #4
Changing the CPU doesn't mandate any changes to the user interface.

Developers may have to change the way they do a few things because of differing math optimizations from the PPC family to the Pentium family and that sort of thing but end users should, all things being equal, experience little change, once apps are rewritten to the new environment. But even there, most parts of most apps should port over quite easily, since they will mostly not involve direct calls to the CPU, but rather calls to the OS.
Old 27th June 2005
  #5
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

More than likely you're right. I'm probably just being paranoid but I can just see a programmer sitting behind his desk saying "since we have to change this, wouldn't it be cool if ...?". Then the whole thing changes faces.
Old 27th June 2005
  #6
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Digital progress waits for no man, woman, or child...it waits for no company, no corporation, no world organization and no government.

Change, technological advancement and progress is simply part of the process we all are forced to live with...but we usually get some nice beni's with all that change, no?

The only questions we should be asking ourselves is whether the software we want to use makes our jobs easier and whether the hardware will ever get digital's inferior sound quality up to great analogue sound quality standards.

While CPU's are certainly a factor, more imporant factors are whether the OS can meet the increasing demands for higher digital sound quality and whether the A-to-D and D-to-A chips can be improved to deliver much better sound quality than currenty exists.

And remember, any digital product you'll ever buy was obsolete on the day it was designed.
Old 27th June 2005
  #7
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny B
Change, technological advancement and progress is simply part of the process we all are forced to live with...but we usually get some nice beni's with all that change, no?

The only questions we should be asking ourselves is whether the software we want to use makes our jobs easier and whether the hardware will ever get digital's inferior sound quality up to great analogue sound quality standards.
You're right of course but, I remember the first time I drove a vehicle with the dimmer switch on the column. For those too young to know, the dimmer was a stomp switch on the floor of the car back in the day. Anyways, My first experience with this just had to be at night and every automobile I passed had much brighter highs than I did. Like to of ditch that [email protected] car stomping all over the floor trying to turn the high beams off and I've been afraid of change ever since.

thumbsup New bells and whistles are cool I guess I just ask they leave the vitals where they're at.
Old 27th June 2005
  #8
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
One thing I've heard is that since Apple's "Rosetta" translation doesn't support Altivec, programs that use those specific instructions may be much trickier to convert. Altiverb is a case in point, although I believe the developers say that lucky for them they were already working on a PC port, so much of the groundwork has already been done.

I'm just trying to figure out if I should still ditch my dual G4 1Ghz for a G5, knowing that within 2 years there may be something radically different and perhaps even better on the market... Hell, my system is still reeling from the OS9 to OSX transition. I smell lots of "Now MacTel compatible!" update fees. Ugh.
Old 27th June 2005
  #9
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hociman's Avatar
 

Exclamation Not yet

I'm still using G4s. I will not even consider buying a G5 until Digidesign (since I'm a Pro Tools user) says that their software will be a universal binary (Intel & PPC) for a while (defined as 3 years after G5 desktops are replaced by Intel based desktops). It also has to be made publicly, so that if they lie, I have legal recourse (anyone remember the d24 debacle in the late 90's?).
Old 27th June 2005
  #10
Gear Nut
 

DAW are not always coded by best practice standards

Let's be honest with ourselves all though we pay a reasonable amount of money for our software and expect a great deal from it, the software companies that service this don't make that much, comparativley speaking (vs the top office suites, management sw, even the graphics guys Macromedia and Adobe have better net margins at closing time than the guys in the digital audio sector). I think Apple is feeling this now after they bought up emagic (that's why suport costs are on the rise), Apple is finding it really hard to make any money from Logic. Although if you think about how much they make from GarageBand (which is made of diff't part of Logic on valium) they might be generating some revenue.

If the SW was codded correctly... especially when Apple was begging people to get things coded in "COCCO" (one "C" or two ?) and codded properly than the transition would have been painless. Mathematica which arguabley the most complicated and intricate program in the world (no DAW even comes close) was ported and optimized in about 3 to 4 hours by Wolfram Res. and was part of the demo Apple presented to the press.

Apple has been asking developers to follow the rules (this switch was probably planed over 5 years ago, and Apple has been droping strong hints for a while now.) but in most cases it fell on def. ears. BSD being POSIX made it clear for anyone who wanted to see.... Apple was seeking platform independance in a big way....


This however should not impact the way SW feels to the user the UI will still be a design choice that the SW company will have to decide on. The one thing that's will be kind of cool is that SW written for Mac on Intel should be able to be ported to PC on Intel at very small cost... will we ever see DP on Win platforms ...? Perhaps that's how Apple plans to make Logic Profitable.. Hummm maybe Apple is planning on becoming a software company after all... if it happens I would not be shocked or surprised .... but then again S. Jobs in a little hard to predict so who knows.

Z
Old 27th June 2005
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

here's another thread from another forum:

http://osxaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23372

it specifically regards DP running under rosetta.
Old 28th June 2005
  #12
Lives for gear
 
hociman's Avatar
 

Post like chocolate

Quote:
Originally Posted by zabour
Apple was begging people to get things coded in "COCCO" (one "C" or two ?)
Cocoa.
Old 28th June 2005
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
Kalite Marka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJack
...I'm probably just being paranoid...
You're either paranoid or bored Billy!
What is the big fuking deal about these changes that Apple and Microsoft come up with?
They both are in a race in which the biggest dik wins!
Do we really care what changes they make as long as the whole deal works for us all!
Either your dik isn't competent enough to realize this or you're just diking around with us.
Boring schit!
Old 28th June 2005
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJack
You're right of course but, I remember the first time I drove a vehicle with the dimmer switch on the column. For those too young to know, the dimmer was a stomp switch on the floor of the car back in the day. Anyways, My first experience with this just had to be at night and every automobile I passed had much brighter highs than I did. Like to of ditch that [email protected] car stomping all over the floor trying to turn the high beams off and I've been afraid of change ever since.

thumbsup New bells and whistles are cool I guess I just ask they leave the vitals where they're at.
Now see... I spent way too much time stomping around looking for the stupid dimmer button. The first car I saw with the dimmer on the steering column I fell in love with. Well, that and the bucket seats...
Old 28th June 2005
  #15
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

well Kalite Marka
Quote:
or you're just diking around with us
do not, lump everyone else in with your bad attitude, please.
fuuck
Old 28th June 2005
  #16
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
You're either paranoid or bored Billy!
What is the big fuking deal about these changes that Apple and Microsoft come up with?
They both are in a race in which the biggest dik wins!
Do we really care what changes they make as long as the whole deal works for us all!
Either your dik isn't competent enough to realize this or you're just diking around with us.
Boring schit!
First off! Read Pan60's signature and 2nd there wouldn't be a problem if I enjoyed playing on the computer as much as recording!

In the words of a good friend of mine, "If you're under forty you need to, Shut the F*CK up!"
Old 28th June 2005
  #17
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

You know I started to delete my previous post and then decided to leave it to the moderators to do it because the quoted comment was uncalled for and I feel my original post was legit. The comment was BS.

I am looking at changing platforms to achieve a more professional sound and yes the thought of learning how to use the software is un-nerving and I know it'll be very time consuming (which translates into taking time away from the music). With the current changes being made, it makes me uneasy the thought of relearning what I will have to spend 6 months to a year dedicated to knowing all the fuctions and capabilities on. The reason for starting this post to begin with was to see if there was any info out yet on the impact of the change that might make it smarter to hold off on switching platforms at this point in time. I in no way have ever said change isn't a good thing, just that I was fearful of it. Sometimes change is good but, to make a large investment just prior to when you know a major change is about to happen, without knowing the effect of the change, can be just plan stupid. Thus the reason for this thread

Now if we're done telling me how bored I must be, can we get back on point?
Old 28th June 2005
  #18
I think it's only sensible to be concerned about major changes. Even if you're confident everything will go right in a switch -- there are almost always lots of little things you didn't think of.
Old 28th June 2005
  #19
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1
I think it's only sensible to be concerned about major changes. Even if you're confident everything will go right in a switch -- there are almost always lots of little things you didn't think of.

i agree
i am always concerned when things change.
it seems as tho changes are coming faster and faster, ( maybe it's just me ) if you do not stay up you get so far behind it is very hard sometimes to get caught up.
you are almost forced to spend more money one way or another.

Old 28th June 2005
  #20
Gear Nut
 
ekimeno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJack
First off! Read Pan60's signature and 2nd there wouldn't be a problem if I enjoyed playing on the computer as much as recording!

In the words of a good friend of mine, "If you're under forty you need to, Shut the F*CK up!"
After the death of the Mac-PC war......so the Mac-Intel wars begin...
Old 29th June 2005
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Kalite Marka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJack
In the words of a good friend of mine, "If you're under forty you need to, Shut the F*CK up!"
I don’t like your avatar and your topic is silly.
Don't give a schit about your friend's "words" nevertheless, I’m not 40+ but way over 30 fuuck
Old 29th June 2005
  #22
Gear Head
 
BillyJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalite Marka
I don’t like your avatar
Glad to know it had an impact!
Quote:
and your topic is silly.
For some. no dought but, with the exception of one [email protected], the replies have been helpful.
Quote:
Don't give a schit about your friend's "words" nevertheless, I’m not 40+ but way over 30 fuuck
THANKS for proving the point!
Old 30th June 2005
  #23
Lives for gear
 
goldphinga's Avatar
 

Mac Osx was designed to run on intel chips from day one. So all versions of logic for osx already contain the coding and there shouldnt be any problems with the transition.
Old 30th June 2005
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hociman
Cocoa.

thanks,

it way past my bed time ... and some of the gears were no longer turning
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