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ECHO Audiofire 12 anyone have a review?
Old 28th February 2012 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbot View Post
I am a little confused, considering it doesn't have preamps, digital i/o and a headphone out... isn't this more like a pure digital/analog analog/digital converter than an audio interface?
Precisely . It is like an analog tape machine and some of us want that precisely instead of most bloated nonesense additional features etc in this case .

What is wrong if it is called an interface even if it is an ADA converter only ?
You see , it has midi .

Most other interfaces have pre amps that are not bypassable . I call that stupid peoples design .

An interface with pre amps and digital inputs etc etc , should be able to bypass their own extremely cheap pre amps for example . You dont see many of them these days because poor thinking engineers in manufacturing called air heads .
Old 28th February 2012 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
i have to disagree with the mostly favorable opinions on echo audiofire that i read here. i've had bad experiences. i owned an echo af2 and had a lot of problems with the device. the drivers were buggy, i.e. audio drop-outs, random samplerate changes, etc. (no problems at all with my rme fireface on the same computer). but the worst thing: when i tried to update the driver to 5.7, the firmware got corrupted (the driver update automatically updates the firmware, too) and the device stopped working alltogether. the customer support said there is no way of resetting the firmware, it's simply broken. how poorly designed must a hardware be to get damaged beyond repair by as simple a thing as a driver update... definitely no more echo products for me.

edit: i have not used the af12, maybe it has a fundamentally different design than the af12 (though i doubt it). just wanted to share my experiences with this series in general.
Sorry to hear you had problems with drivers etc ., But echo drivers are one of the best and most solid drivers than any other i have ever used . And i have used quite a few different soundcards that i owned one time or another .

Your disagreeing in general will not change the facts about underrated echo products .

I know some people sold their rme fireface 800s and settled with the audiofire12 and are very happy they did who are in this forum btw . Same or better quality than the rme 800 that costs 5 or 6 times more than the audiofire 12 . Plus , the audiofire 12 , has better dynamic range at 114db than the rme 800 .

I have had 2 audiofire 12s so far and not a single issue ( flawless ) . I simply love the audiofire 12 and its quality really .
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
The Echo drivers seem to be good now, although if you go to the Echo Audio Facebook page you'll see quite a few complaints of dropouts and random noises from folks updating to the latest drivers and then experiencing these issues...thus having to revert back to earlier drivers to remedy the problem. I have had an Audiofire 8 since around 2007 which I've used succesfully with a MacBook pro for many location recordings with problems within the last 2 years or so. the drivers (in my experience) are much better now. PC users seem to have been the guinea pigs (and losers) in this commercial experiment.

However there was a dark period in Echo's history when a driver update meant taking a real risk of frying the onboard Fireworx firewire interface card, which required a $100 replacement to be shipped out by Echo (or a return to base journey if you felt timid about doing it yourself) Echo were quite unrepentent and unwavering that this was the users' responsibility (and not theirs), despite having released onto the market a flawed update process which could see the card wrecked by doing this, even when their instructions were followed. Their entire consumer base was turned into beta testers, with no safety net....

The Echo users forum was filled by disgruntled user experiences, with constructive and helpful chat between such folk substituting for the deafening silence from the Echo tech staff. Eventually, that site was shut down by Echo...so the litany of dissatisfied responses is gone forever, to return in muted form on the Facebook site. Even Echo's tech support wisdom during this unhappy period was to 'backflash' to version 4.8 firmware, which was the last known bug free driver, with no guarantee that even this could be done without harm to the user's unit. I mention all this now to remind Echo users that Audiofire products have perhaps now emerged from a dark and shameful period when purchasers were left on their own to replace crucial onboard items, which failed while the developers released premature half assed solutions which caused many a lot of grief.

Things seem to be a lot better now. I should also go on record to say that Marcel and Ken (Echo's chief tech support guys) have always replied promptly and helpfully to my queries, and they can't be faulted as individuals. It's the corporate response that grated, during the dark year of 2009.
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
oops...see below
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I have had an Audiofire 8 since around 2007 which I've used succesfully with a MacBook pro for many location recordings without problems within the last 2 years or so.
Old 1st March 2012 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
also...in view of this, I should say that I'm still with Snow leopard 10.6.8:
new Echo Audiofire firmware for OSX and Windows is out
Old 3rd March 2012 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
The Echo drivers seem to be good now...thus having to revert back to earlier drivers to remedy the problem.
still not good. not working for me at all since trying to use the 5.xxx drivers and firmwares after upgrading to windows7 64bit
used to love my audiofire12 with 4.8 drivers and windows xp, but now i'm starting to hate it. according to the info on their download page, the 4.8 doesn't seem to be compatible with windows7... and i've also heard that backflashing back to 4.8 could damage the interface?
Old 4th March 2012
  #67
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Have you tried using ASIO4All ? It's annoying to use if you change your buffer setting a lot but it works well with Win7 and the AudioFire 12.
Old 4th March 2012
  #68
Gear Addict
 
rodreb's Avatar
 

Just throwing this out there, for what it may be worth to anyone but, I am getting much better performance from the WDM drivers than I did from the ASIO drivers.
Old 4th March 2012
  #69
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rekloos's Avatar
 

jus wanna jump in and say iv been using af12 for about 4yrs and it has served me good. I think there are way too many interfaces designed to have a variety of features while compromising in quality and while those have their place in the recording industry some of us just need a simple in/out box that provides quality conversion.
as far as I know, echo is the only co that has such a product. if you have a console and don't need extra pres and other perks af12 is what you need.
as far as drivers, it true that there was 'dry' period but it seems echo has been back on track and quite honestly I never really experienced any major issues on my Mac .
Old 4th March 2012 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
Have you tried using ASIO4All ? It's annoying to use if you change your buffer setting a lot but it works well with Win7 and the AudioFire 12.
yes, but the problem is not with asio. i'm not getting dropouts. i'm getting totally trashed sound even when playing a video in youtube or anything else. doesn't matter if i use wdm/asio/asio4all/,,,.
In XP, it worked flawlessly with the 4.8 drivers for 5 or 6 years already.
In W7 I tried already switching to legacy firewire drivers etc.

Worst thing is, that they deleted the forum from their website, where people were troubleshooting this kind of stuff. What a stupid thing to do. From what I can see using archive.org, it seems that there was lot of valuable information. But using archive.org I can only see the lists of threads. Cannot get to the content. Not sure if they removed it, because it was a bad promo for them, or if it's some conspiracy against owners of their devices...
Old 4th March 2012 | Show parent
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clorax hurd View Post
yes, but the problem is not with asio. i'm not getting dropouts. i'm getting totally trashed sound even when playing a video in youtube or anything else. doesn't matter if i use wdm/asio/asio4all/,,,.
In XP, it worked flawlessly with the 4.8 drivers for 5 or 6 years already.
In W7 I tried already switching to legacy firewire drivers etc.

Worst thing is, that they deleted the forum from their website, where people were troubleshooting this kind of stuff. What a stupid thing to do. From what I can see using archive.org, it seems that there was lot of valuable information. But using archive.org I can only see the lists of threads. Cannot get to the content. Not sure if they removed it, because it was a bad promo for them, or if it's some conspiracy against owners of their devices...
You've emailed their support people? The times I've emailed them I always get a very fast response.

You've checked your cables and tried multiple Firewire ports? Have you verified that the chipset of your computer is compatible? Somewhere on their website they list which chipsets are proven to work well with their firewire gear.
Old 4th March 2012 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
You've emailed their support people? The times I've emailed them I always get a very fast response.

You've checked your cables and tried multiple Firewire ports? Have you verified that the chipset of your computer is compatible? Somewhere on their website they list which chipsets are proven to work well with their firewire gear.
yes, i mailed the tech support in the end, but it was friday evening already, so i'll probably get reply tomorrow / after weekend...

for sure i checked my cables, tried other ports.
The Firewire adapter is PCI-e card with xio2200 chipset by texas instruments. I believe (believed?) that all firewire chipsets by Texas Instruments are ok for audio, but they don't mention this chipset on their web, so it will be worth checking, if the FW adapter works ok with other sound devices. If there are chipsets with issues even among TI then i have no idea how to pick a good FW adapter. I don't know what model of TI chipset is on the adapters when ordering them. It took me some time, to find a webshops where they mention the brand of chipset, but haven't seen a shop where they would write exact model of chipset.

Anyway, i'll ask my friend with TC Konnekt to come by, to make sure that the FW adapter works ok with other devices.
Old 5th March 2012
  #73
Gear Maniac
It's quite strange, that everybody says that you better buy TI chipset firewire adapter. I bought and tried a firewire card with TI XIO2200 chipset and it did not work well for me. Everything looked ok in the system, but everything sounded heavyli distorted, like kinda bitcrushed...
(gigabyte Z68AP-D3, i7, w7 64bit SP1, audiofire12, Texas Instruments XIO2200 FW card)

Now testing with a NEC chipset card and works ok !!

The new Echo Audiofire drivers were probably ok. My apologize to echo guys (except for the part about deleting forum.)
Old 6th March 2012
  #74
Lives for gear
 

My experience with Windows (both XP & W7) and Firewire has always been a mixed blessing. Once I get it working it works great, but getting it working is usually a chore.
Old 6th March 2012
  #75
Lives for gear
 

My experience with Windows (both XP & W7) and Firewire has always been a mixed blessing. Once I get it working it works great, but getting it working is usually a chore.

One other bit of troubleshooting advice for those having difficulty with an audio interface: Sometimes the problem is with the DAW and not the ASIO driver. I recently had a problem with a Win7 box running Cubase 5.5.3 and the AudioFire 12. Cubase would not work with the AF12. No audio passed and a solid red light on the ASIO meter. The AF12 did however work with Windows Media Player and the stand alone Kontakt app installed on the system. Re-installing Cubase resolved the problem. So the lesson is: don't only use one audio app to test a problem with your audio interface.
Old 26th May 2012 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
My experience with Windows (both XP & W7) and Firewire has always been a mixed blessing. Once I get it working it works great, but getting it working is usually a chore.

One other bit of troubleshooting advice for those having difficulty with an audio interface: Sometimes the problem is with the DAW and not the ASIO driver. I recently had a problem with a Win7 box running Cubase 5.5.3 and the AudioFire 12. Cubase would not work with the AF12. No audio passed and a solid red light on the ASIO meter. The AF12 did however work with Windows Media Player and the stand alone Kontakt app installed on the system. Re-installing Cubase resolved the problem. So the lesson is: don't only use one audio app to test a problem with your audio interface.

Agreed there .

From what you are describing , either the unit has gone bad , or there is something wrong other than the audiofire 12 itself .

You might want to check all other angles to locate the issue .
Old 26th May 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofire View Post
Agreed there .

From what you are describing , either the unit has gone bad , or there is something wrong other than the audiofire 12 itself .

You might want to check all other angles to locate the issue .
The number of hours spent troubleshooting this problem is beyond ridiculous. Re-installing Cubase resolved the problem but then 6 month later (for no apparent reason) it happened again. I was very precise in the steps I took to trace the solution but in the end it was nothing less than re-installing Cubase that resolved it. I've now sworn off using the Echo driver and I use ASIO4All. Yes, it's a drag to have to set my buffer in two places but at least it's rock solid. Oh, and as for the unit being bad, no. I have an AF12 and two AF8 units. When Cubase & the AF12 stop talking I've tried swapping in one of the AF8 units and it is silent as well.
Old 26th May 2012 | Show parent
  #78
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clorax hurd View Post
It's quite strange, that everybody says that you better buy TI chipset firewire adapter. I bought and tried a firewire card with TI XIO2200 chipset and it did not work well for me. Everything looked ok in the system, but everything sounded heavyli distorted, like kinda bitcrushed...
(gigabyte Z68AP-D3, i7, w7 64bit SP1, audiofire12, Texas Instruments XIO2200 FW card)

Now testing with a NEC chipset card and works ok !!

The new Echo Audiofire drivers were probably ok. My apologize to echo guys (except for the part about deleting forum.)
Which Firewire card with NEC chipset do you use? That´s often the key to use the right firewire card.

How pleased are you with the new Echo Audiofire drivers?
Old 26th May 2012 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Echo shut their forum down because the entire site was hacked into from there which caused an almost two week outage. Anyone remember that? Facebook, email, and phone seem to be the connections now.
Old 2nd July 2012 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
The number of hours spent troubleshooting this problem is beyond ridiculous. Re-installing Cubase resolved the problem but then 6 month later (for no apparent reason) it happened again. I was very precise in the steps I took to trace the solution but in the end it was nothing less than re-installing Cubase that resolved it. I've now sworn off using the Echo driver and I use ASIO4All. Yes, it's a drag to have to set my buffer in two places but at least it's rock solid. Oh, and as for the unit being bad, no. I have an AF12 and two AF8 units. When Cubase & the AF12 stop talking I've tried swapping in one of the AF8 units and it is silent as well.
I experienced the same issue with multiple Cubase versions and the audiofire 12. What I found was that the ASIO overload occurred whenever I failed to assign an output (vst connections) to channel 1. The weird thing is that this only happens on the first project you load. If you load anothger project that uses channel 1 as an output first, then the project that doesn't will then work.
Old 2nd July 2012 | Show parent
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdiddy View Post
I experienced the same issue with multiple Cubase versions and the audiofire 12. What I found was that the ASIO overload occurred whenever I failed to assign an output (vst connections) to channel 1. The weird thing is that this only happens on the first project you load. If you load anothger project that uses channel 1 as an output first, then the project that doesn't will then work.
I read something similar when I was troubleshooting this and I totally cleared our all I/O assignments in Cubase and then recreated them. It unfortunately had no affect on the problem.
Old 2nd July 2012 | Show parent
  #82
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbot View Post
I am a little confused, considering it doesn't have preamps, digital i/o and a headphone out... isn't this more like a pure digital/analog analog/digital converter than an audio interface?
this is a plus, in fact. built-in pres are crap by definition (remember that you cannot bypass them in most cases).

headphones amp, well, may be...
Old 2nd July 2012 | Show parent
  #83
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Pilgrim View Post
i have to disagree with the mostly favorable opinions on echo audiofire that i read here. i've had bad experiences. i owned an echo af2 and had a lot of problems with the device. the drivers were buggy, i.e. audio drop-outs, random samplerate changes, etc.
what platform did you use? there is a lot of complaint around win7, while things seem much better around XP...
Old 2nd July 2012 | Show parent
  #84
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frontierfran View Post
didnt read this whole thread but i have to say that I think the AF12 is decent at best. good bang for buck, bu the thing is, the more inputs you use on this thing the more "hazy" things sounded. there is a cloudiness to the conversion that gets compounded the more tracks you have coming in (and out) of it.
does it help to plug in a decent external word-clock?
Old 19th July 2012
  #85
Gear Addict
 
frontierfran's Avatar
 

I'd bet plugging in an external clock would improve things with it while utilizing all the I/o, but I did not test it at the time.
Old 26th August 2012 | Show parent
  #86
lxm
Gear Addict
 

Do they have 64 bit Win 7 drivers?
Old 26th August 2012
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm View Post
Do they have 64 bit Win 7 drivers?
Yup. If you head on over to their website and look at the readme file for the latest driver you'll see that it supports 64bit OSs.
Old 26th August 2012 | Show parent
  #88
i bought a second hand af12 on eBay. the seller hosed me as it was dropping sync with the computer and sometimes not turning on. i sent an email to echo, sent them the unit and they fixed it for me, for free.

i had no problems at all. explained the issue and they fixed it. just upgraded to win7 64 (yeah i know im behind. new to me!) and integrated pretty seamlessly.

I'd buy another one.

I'm using reaper if that makes any difference.
Old 5th October 2012
  #89
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tvsky's Avatar
 

i think i put my 2c into this thread ages ago but....

i have had my af12 for a while now and its still flawless on both mac and pc

wish I had picked up an AF8 with adat while they still made them .......
Old 5th October 2012
  #90
AF8 doesn't have ADAT... the 8 PRE has
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