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Pro Tools HD Converter Choices? Digital Converters
Old 1st September 2008
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Pro Tools HD Converter Choices?

I've been checking into converter options for an HD system. So far it looks like the Lynx Aurora and the Digi 192 are the favorites. Are there any cheaper alternatives? I have a PCI computer not the express. I typically record 8 inputs at one time. Besides that it is usually overdubs. Is there a way I can use a cheaper alternative?
Old 1st September 2008
  #2
Of the converters I'm aware of (apogee/lynx/prism/Digi) the Lynx is the cheapest. Let's face it, if you're splashing out on an HD rig, £1.2k for a converter isn't exactly bank-breaking - at a rough guess, that's what an aurora 8 would come out at with the HD card.

Other options would be to go 2nd hand - if 96k isn't important, you can probably get an Apogee AD8000 cheaper, or maybe a nearly new rosetta.

But if you're worried about saving £500 here or there...are you sure you can afford an HD rig?!
Old 1st September 2008
  #3
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Of the converters I'm aware of (apogee/lynx/prism/Digi) the Lynx is the cheapest. Let's face it, if you're splashing out on an HD rig, £1.2k for a converter isn't exactly bank-breaking - at a rough guess, that's what an aurora 8 would come out at with the HD card.

Other options would be to go 2nd hand - if 96k isn't important, you can probably get an Apogee AD8000 cheaper, or maybe a nearly new rosetta.

But if you're worried about saving £500 here or there...are you sure you can afford an HD rig?!

Thats what I was thinking as well. Its like taking a Nascar race car and putting retreads on it?????????. GET A GOOD CONVERTOR
Old 1st September 2008
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Well I got a steal of a deal in my area. There was a studio liquidating their assets and there was about 5 people there putting offers on everything. Everyone else already had an HD system so they weren't interested and I got a killer deal. So money is an issue but I don't want to handcuff myself by going with cheaper price.

Some of the other posts on here seem to say that the Lynx has only 4 voices for playback? Is that just with native systems or is there something to this? I will say around $2000 is all I'm willing to spend at the moment.

I'm a little over my head with this system but with the price, I just couldn't pass it up. Any pros or cons with the Lynx from people that use it?
Old 1st September 2008
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyzaggyboom View Post
Well I got a steal of a deal in my area. There was a studio liquidating their assets and there was about 5 people there putting offers on everything. Everyone else already had an HD system so they weren't interested and I got a killer deal. So money is an issue but I don't want to handcuff myself by going with cheaper price.

Some of the other posts on here seem to say that the Lynx has only 4 voices for playback? Is that just with native systems or is there something to this? I will say around $2000 is all I'm willing to spend at the moment.

I'm a little over my head with this system but with the price, I just couldn't pass it up. Any pros or cons with the Lynx from people that use it?
Voices are nothing to do with the converters. An HD rig voices is limited by the processing cards, and how you have the DSP configured. You can run 128 tracks out of a pair of outputs if you want.

Check out the Lynx website for tech specs - it's all there. You need the HD card for it as well as the interface itself.
Old 1st September 2008
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Voice was the incorrect word, sorry. I looked at the big thread from 2006 and people were bitching about it only being able to playback 4 stereo files at once.

I searched this site for the thread, just wanted to make sure that wasn't something user related instead of gear related.
Old 2nd September 2008
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyzaggyboom View Post
Voice was the incorrect word, sorry. I looked at the big thread from 2006 and people were bitching about it only being able to playback 4 stereo files at once.

I searched this site for the thread, just wanted to make sure that wasn't something user related instead of gear related.
that makes no sense, so you can disregard it!
Old 2nd September 2008
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyzaggyboom View Post
Well I got a steal of a deal in my area. There was a studio liquidating their assets and there was about 5 people there putting offers on everything. Everyone else already had an HD system so they weren't interested and I got a killer deal. So money is an issue but I don't want to handcuff myself by going with cheaper price.

Some of the other posts on here seem to say that the Lynx has only 4 voices for playback? Is that just with native systems or is there something to this? I will say around $2000 is all I'm willing to spend at the moment.

I'm a little over my head with this system but with the price, I just couldn't pass it up. Any pros or cons with the Lynx from people that use it?
If you want a bunch of channels in a 1U interface with no fan and perfect PT|HD integration, you'll have to spend a bit more and go with the Lynx Aurora16+LT-HD card.

Otherwise, if you just want to get up and running and don't mind a larger rack unit with a fan and less i/o, I'm sure you can find a used 192 on eBay for around $2k.

It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals.

Hope that helps!
Old 3rd September 2008
  #9
Gear Addict
 
sfoote's Avatar
For me the lynx was the better sounding, inexpensive alternative to a Digi 192. That Lynx is worth the dough. I didn't find anything less expensive when I was doing what you're doing.

But, the lynx sounded so much better than my old converters that I kept going and got a Prism. Yummy. Makes a difference in complex mixes, less so on a single track. **don't mean to take this into another "this versus that" link. You can't lose with the Lynx.
Old 3rd September 2008
  #10
Gear Addict
 

192 i/o

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
If you want a bunch of channels in a 1U interface with no fan and perfect PT|HD integration, you'll have to spend a bit more and go with the Lynx Aurora16+LT-HD card.

Otherwise, if you just want to get up and running and don't mind a larger rack unit with a fan and less i/o, I'm sure you can find a used 192 on eBay for around $2k.

It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals.

Hope that helps!

hello,

that's another b.s. post, designed to take advantage of someone's inexperience and indecision.

you indicate that an aurora will have "perfect PTHD integration", which is not necessarily the case. in any event, if you want perfect PTHD integration, you should obviously buy a digidesign product.

the fact that the aurora lacks a fan is not a plus, but a defect. it should have a fan, but they did not have room or money to include one. the [cheaper] converter chips used in the aurora box are known for having problems with overheating, which is why they have been abandoned by some manufacturers altogether.

the digidesign unit is a professional piece of equipment, with a fan, and you want a fan. the fan in the 192 i/o is also quieter than your computer, by the way.

also, the aurora box does not even have input trims for calibration, and it is factory set at a weird input level. you could never even use the thing properly in conjunction with tape in a pro situation. that is a complete non-starter, especially if you want to work with anyone else, or in a larger studio. there is no decent interface that i am aware of that totally lacks input trims. that is ridiculous.

you can easily and cheaply add inputs or outputs to a 192 i/o, and it also has tons of connectivity right out of the box that is simply not present or even available as an upgrade on the aurora box, including realtime sample rate conversion, adatlink, spdif, and so forth.

lynx claims to have hacked the digidesign interface to make themselves "compatible". yeah, and in order for the aurora box to be purportedly "compatible" with pro tools you lose all the digital i/o, right?

also, there are plenty of people complaining about problems with compatibility between their aurora boxes and pro tools. if you want actual compatibility, buy a 192 i/o.

the aurora is a stripped down, bang-for-the-buck solution, with cheaper converters, and it has no sonic benefit whatsoever. in fact, the digidesign box sounds better, as would be expected.

finally the typical "It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals", comment is meaningless saledude pyschobabble. same crap you hear from every shyster commission-working saleman on the internet or in music stores. it reminds me of the garment center in Manhattan. taking advantage of tourists. who needs that condescending b.s.?

you can achieve your goals if you try [with or without aurora].

it would be one thing if you [lynx, whoever] just presented your wares with some sort of integrity, but you don't. you stoop to using subtle passive-aggressive comments and criticism, in an effort to belittle the very product lynx claims to have "reverse engineered", the digidesign 192 i/o.

also, check this out:
<http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&langid=100&itemid=25667>

let digidesign know you are using an aurora interface, and you may be kissing support goodbye.

word.

i don't sell equipment.

userofgear
Old 3rd September 2008
  #11
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

that's another b.s. post, designed to take advantage of someone's inexperience and indecision.

you indicate that an aurora will have "perfect PTHD integration", which is not necessarily the case. in any event, if you want perfect PTHD integration, you should obviously buy a digidesign product.

the fact that the aurora lacks a fan is not a plus, but a defect. it should have a fan, but they did not have room or money to include one. the [cheaper] converter chips used in the aurora box are known for having problems with overheating, which is why they have been abandoned by some manufacturers altogether.

the digidesign unit is a professional piece of equipment, with a fan, and you want a fan. the fan in the 192 i/o is also quieter than your computer, by the way.

also, the aurora box does not even have input trims for calibration, and it is factory set at a weird input level. you could never even use the thing properly in conjunction with tape in a pro situation. that is a complete non-starter, especially if you want to work with anyone else, or in a larger studio. there is no decent interface that i am aware of that totally lacks input trims. that is ridiculous.

you can easily and cheaply add inputs or outputs to a 192 i/o, and it also has tons of connectivity right out of the box that is simply not present or even available as an upgrade on the aurora box, including realtime sample rate conversion, adatlink, spdif, and so forth.

lynx claims to have hacked the digidesign interface to make themselves "compatible". yeah, and in order for the aurora box to be purportedly "compatible" with pro tools you lose all the digital i/o, right?

also, there are plenty of people complaining about problems with compatibility between their aurora boxes and pro tools. if you want actual compatibility, buy a 192 i/o.

the aurora is a stripped down, bang-for-the-buck solution, with cheaper converters, and it has no sonic benefit whatsoever. in fact, the digidesign box sounds better, as would be expected.

finally the typical "It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals", comment is meaningless saledude pyschobabble. same crap you hear from every shyster commission-working saleman on the internet or in music stores. it reminds me of the garment center in Manhattan. taking advantage of tourists. who needs that condescending b.s.?

you can achieve your goals if you try [with or without aurora].

it would be one thing if you [lynx, whoever] just presented your wares with some sort of integrity, but you don't. you stoop to using subtle passive-aggressive comments and criticism, in an effort to belittle the very product lynx claims to have "reverse engineered", the digidesign 192 i/o.

also, check this out:
<http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&langid=100&itemid=25667>

let digidesign know you are using an aurora interface, and you may be kissing support goodbye.

word.

i don't sell equipment.

userofgear


Old 3rd September 2008
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

that's another b.s. post, designed to take advantage of someone's inexperience and indecision.

you indicate that an aurora will have "perfect PTHD integration", which is not necessarily the case. in any event, if you want perfect PTHD integration, you should obviously buy a digidesign product.

the fact that the aurora lacks a fan is not a plus, but a defect. it should have a fan, but they did not have room or money to include one. the [cheaper] converter chips used in the aurora box are known for having problems with overheating, which is why they have been abandoned by some manufacturers altogether.

the digidesign unit is a professional piece of equipment, with a fan, and you want a fan. the fan in the 192 i/o is also quieter than your computer, by the way.

also, the aurora box does not even have input trims for calibration, and it is factory set at a weird input level. you could never even use the thing properly in conjunction with tape in a pro situation. that is a complete non-starter, especially if you want to work with anyone else, or in a larger studio. there is no decent interface that i am aware of that totally lacks input trims. that is ridiculous.

you can easily and cheaply add inputs or outputs to a 192 i/o, and it also has tons of connectivity right out of the box that is simply not present or even available as an upgrade on the aurora box, including realtime sample rate conversion, adatlink, spdif, and so forth.

lynx claims to have hacked the digidesign interface to make themselves "compatible". yeah, and in order for the aurora box to be purportedly "compatible" with pro tools you lose all the digital i/o, right?

also, there are plenty of people complaining about problems with compatibility between their aurora boxes and pro tools. if you want actual compatibility, buy a 192 i/o.

the aurora is a stripped down, bang-for-the-buck solution, with cheaper converters, and it has no sonic benefit whatsoever. in fact, the digidesign box sounds better, as would be expected.

finally the typical "It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals", comment is meaningless saledude pyschobabble. same crap you hear from every shyster commission-working saleman on the internet or in music stores. it reminds me of the garment center in Manhattan. taking advantage of tourists. who needs that condescending b.s.?

you can achieve your goals if you try [with or without aurora].

it would be one thing if you [lynx, whoever] just presented your wares with some sort of integrity, but you don't. you stoop to using subtle passive-aggressive comments and criticism, in an effort to belittle the very product lynx claims to have "reverse engineered", the digidesign 192 i/o.

also, check this out:
<http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&langid=100&itemid=25667>

let digidesign know you are using an aurora interface, and you may be kissing support goodbye.

word.

i don't sell equipment.

userofgear
Wow, your lack of knowledge on this subject is staggering.

1. No, you don't lose the digital i/o at all. In fact the Aurora16 with the LT-HD card gives you 16x16 analog AND 16x16 AES/EBU independently and simultaneously (the same as two fully populated 192 i/o's and a digital 192 i/o).

2. Yes, you are correct that the Aurora doesn't provide ADAT or S/Pdif i/o. If you need that, go with a 192 (or add a digital 192 to the Aurora setup).

3. You keep posting that the Aurora sounds worse than a 192. There are so many people who have actually sat down and done the listening tests who would disagree with you. It's not that the 192 is bad, but the Aurora is the clear winner in properly setup shootouts.

4. Just because I happen to own a company that represents Lynx products doesn't mean I haven't owned and tried many other options before settling on Lynx for my own studio. I used to rep Prism and used an ADA8 day in and day out. From there I owned the Apogee AD/DA 16X and now I use multiple Aurora16's with my HD|3 Accel rig.

5. The calibration situation is unfortunate and I do agree that it would be cool if you could calibrate the converters yourself. However, that certainly hasn't stopped me or anyone else I know using the Aurora's from working. If you need to calibrate the converters yourself, by all means, don't go with the Aurora. If that is an afterthought and you couldn't care less, the Aurora can't be beat in terms of quality, i/o and the integration with PT|HD.

6. What is it about the PT|HD integration that is slipping by you? It is sample for sample and port for port accurate to the 192 i/o. This means that there is absolutely no manual calculating for delay times necessary, and you can use outboard gear as inserts without issue. Just hookup and go. A single Aurora16 attaches to a single HD card and gives you 32x32 (half analog, half digital) i/o, in a 1U rack space without a noisy fan. I hardly think that's a negative.

You keep stating things that make me think that you believe I work for Lynx. I do not work for Lynx. I represent their products because I own them and use them every single day in the studio. As many on here know, I am an artist, producer/engineer and mixer first. The other side of my company happens to carry some high end pro audio lines. We only carry the products I own and use, nothing more.

I can backup every single one of my statements because I have spent many years with the gear I represent and know each inside and out. I also work closely with the companies I represent and assist with beta testing and product enhancements. I'm real good at finding what's not working with a product (or what could be made better) and assisting that company with making their product everything it can be and more.

You are more than welcome to swing on by and put me to the test. I think you'll be quite surprised. Until then, I suggest you back off of me and stop hiding behind Internet anonymity.
Old 5th September 2008
  #13
Gear Addict
 

stop staggering and take of those sunglasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
Wow, your lack of knowledge on this subject is staggering.

1. No, you don't lose the digital i/o at all. In fact the Aurora16 with the LT-HD card gives you 16x16 analog AND 16x16 AES/EBU independently and simultaneously (the same as two fully populated 192 i/o's and a digital 192 i/o).

2. Yes, you are correct that the Aurora doesn't provide ADAT or S/Pdif i/o. If you need that, go with a 192 (or add a digital 192 to the Aurora setup).

3. You keep posting that the Aurora sounds worse than a 192. There are so many people who have actually sat down and done the listening tests who would disagree with you. It's not that the 192 is bad, but the Aurora is the clear winner in properly setup shootouts.

4. Just because I happen to own a company that represents Lynx products doesn't mean I haven't owned and tried many other options before settling on Lynx for my own studio. I used to rep Prism and used an ADA8 day in and day out. From there I owned the Apogee AD/DA 16X and now I use multiple Aurora16's with my HD|3 Accel rig.

5. The calibration situation is unfortunate and I do agree that it would be cool if you could calibrate the converters yourself. However, that certainly hasn't stopped me or anyone else I know using the Aurora's from working. If you need to calibrate the converters yourself, by all means, don't go with the Aurora. If that is an afterthought and you couldn't care less, the Aurora can't be beat in terms of quality, i/o and the integration with PT|HD.

6. What is it about the PT|HD integration that is slipping by you? It is sample for sample and port for port accurate to the 192 i/o. This means that there is absolutely no manual calculating for delay times necessary, and you can use outboard gear as inserts without issue. Just hookup and go. A single Aurora16 attaches to a single HD card and gives you 32x32 (half analog, half digital) i/o, in a 1U rack space without a noisy fan. I hardly think that's a negative.

You keep stating things that make me think that you believe I work for Lynx. I do not work for Lynx. I represent their products because I own them and use them every single day in the studio. As many on here know, I am an artist, producer/engineer and mixer first. The other side of my company happens to carry some high end pro audio lines. We only carry the products I own and use, nothing more.

I can backup every single one of my statements because I have spent many years with the gear I represent and know each inside and out. I also work closely with the companies I represent and assist with beta testing and product enhancements. I'm real good at finding what's not working with a product (or what could be made better) and assisting that company with making their product everything it can be and more.

You are more than welcome to swing on by and put me to the test. I think you'll be quite surprised. Until then, I suggest you back off of me and stop hiding behind Internet anonymity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
Wow, your lack of knowledge on this subject is staggering.

1. No, you don't lose the digital i/o at all. In fact the Aurora16 with the LT-HD card gives you 16x16 analog AND 16x16 AES/EBU independently and simultaneously (the same as two fully populated 192 i/o's and a digital 192 i/o).

2. Yes, you are correct that the Aurora doesn't provide ADAT or S/Pdif i/o. If you need that, go with a 192 (or add a digital 192 to the Aurora setup).

3. You keep posting that the Aurora sounds worse than a 192. There are so many people who have actually sat down and done the listening tests who would disagree with you. It's not that the 192 is bad, but the Aurora is the clear winner in properly setup shootouts.

4. Just because I happen to own a company that represents Lynx products doesn't mean I haven't owned and tried many other options before settling on Lynx for my own studio. I used to rep Prism and used an ADA8 day in and day out. From there I owned the Apogee AD/DA 16X and now I use multiple Aurora16's with my HD|3 Accel rig.

5. The calibration situation is unfortunate and I do agree that it would be cool if you could calibrate the converters yourself. However, that certainly hasn't stopped me or anyone else I know using the Aurora's from working. If you need to calibrate the converters yourself, by all means, don't go with the Aurora. If that is an afterthought and you couldn't care less, the Aurora can't be beat in terms of quality, i/o and the integration with PT|HD.

6. What is it about the PT|HD integration that is slipping by you? It is sample for sample and port for port accurate to the 192 i/o. This means that there is absolutely no manual calculating for delay times necessary, and you can use outboard gear as inserts without issue. Just hookup and go. A single Aurora16 attaches to a single HD card and gives you 32x32 (half analog, half digital) i/o, in a 1U rack space without a noisy fan. I hardly think that's a negative.

You keep stating things that make me think that you believe I work for Lynx. I do not work for Lynx. I represent their products because I own them and use them every single day in the studio. As many on here know, I am an artist, producer/engineer and mixer first. The other side of my company happens to carry some high end pro audio lines. We only carry the products I own and use, nothing more.

I can backup every single one of my statements because I have spent many years with the gear I represent and know each inside and out. I also work closely with the companies I represent and assist with beta testing and product enhancements. I'm real good at finding what's not working with a product (or what could be made better) and assisting that company with making their product everything it can be and more.

You are more than welcome to swing on by and put me to the test. I think you'll be quite surprised. Until then, I suggest you back off of me and stop hiding behind Internet anonymity.

hello,

well, wow again then. you are easily staggered.

you have no idea what the majority of people think. the majority of people using 192 i/o don't participate in dumb listening tests conducted by manufacturers of products, or their associates, who are trying to prove themselves. and you are not one to judge what is and what is not a "properly conducted" "shootout" test. you are swinging at ghosts.

your statement that the aurora can't be beat in terms of quality is absolutely ludicrous, and you making those kind of statements does neither you nor lynx any good.

maybe you do not work directly for lynx as an employee, but you work for whatever you have to sell.

i think you basically only use the products you sell, not the other way around.

the "calibration situation", as you put it, is not unfortunate. it is a trainwreck in a professional system, which is what the lynx converters are trying to interface with. what are you going to do, send them back to lynx while everyone sits around at the session for a few days getting high and waiting?

the inclusion of your resume and information about your beta testing is nice.

anyhow, the problem with your "approach" is that it smacks of being "shrewd". you are unable to speak honestly about what you sell, because you want to sell it, and you invariably stoop to making some sort of overt, or passive aggressive, attempt to belittle the competition in the hopes of making a sale. however, you find fault that is not actually there, and that is both dishonest and unnecessesary. moreover, you fail to fairly apprise people of the shortcomings of the gear you are selling for example, your "fan issue". the 192 i/o's fan is not a problem, and you must know that. you also have to know that the lynx not having a fan is not good. however, in complete denial of reality, you attempt to spin it the other way [i.e. you insinuate a "noisy fan"]. that is bad faith, it is dishonest, and it is manipulative. it is also the oldest trick in the book, almost a proverb. i.e. if there is a problem, paint it as an advantage before anyone can ask about it.

another example is your comment to the original poster about buying a 192 i/o if he "just wants to get up and running". what crap. pretty much all of the recordings in the market place where made using those converters, and you act like they are just barely good enough to consider [like ed meitner is just barely squeaking by]. that's what i mean by sales spin, and being manipulative. maybe you think nobody sees through that smokescreen, but i have news for you, a lot of us have heard it before.

then your following everything with the ubiquitous "hope that helps" seems insincere if you have just been knowingly misleading.

your "suggestion" about backing off is rejected. however, i reserve the right to get bored with the topic.

most people on these boards do not use names, because that is the purpose of anonymous boards. what poster wants every tom, dick, and harry misconstruing and misinterpreting half of what the poster says, and then running around misquoting or trying to attribute their own confusion to the poster. no thanks.

many of the people who do use their names on these type of boards [and anyone is free to do so, for all i care] are doing so because they are selling equipment, or studio time, and they want to be contacted.

i do not really see any posting from you that simply offers to help without involving some mention of your business. granted, maybe i have overlooked something, so disregard that if i am wrong. anyhow, maybe you should get an anonymous account and only post information without any indication that you have anything for sale. see if you can even bring yourself to do that without staggering any more. and stop putting your name and picture on all those posts. how annoying. anyhow, i have no need or desiure to advertise my identity on these boards. if you can use information that i post, that's fine, if not, then you do not have to worry with it.

one thing that is a little bit odd is, even though you are essentially using "gearslutz" as a storefront, you do not even buy an advertisement for your company. so you are just being a "userofgearslutz", huh? if i was mr. gearslutz, by golly, i would send someone over to your studio and say, "hey, kittonian / aaron, quick hanging out here causing trouble and trying to sell stuff to all these nice people without even taking out an ad". and, "take off those sunglasses, in the name of the law".

did somebody at digidesign do something bad to you or something? they always speak well of you.

the lynx box is probably just fine for what it is, and to that extent i have nothing against it, although i think the idea of hacking digidesign's interface was dumb, but let's leave it at that, o.k.? no need to try to sell it as the pinnacle of all mastering devices or something. and no need to try to say its "better" than the 192 i/o, its different, right?

trying to say that the 192 i/o is not good choice for an interface for pro tools hd is kind of silly.

userofgear
Old 5th September 2008
  #14
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian View Post
....... the Aurora can't be beat in terms of quality........

HA HA HA HA!!!!

man - that is funny!!!






seriously..... I can think of a BUNCH of converters that sound MUCH better than Aurora.

YOU just happen to not SELL THEM.

Old 5th September 2008
  #15
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

.... and I can think of a whole lot more that sound worse.

Let's put the price pre-requisite in here. For the money, the Lynx stuff cannot be beat. It sits in the same price range as the Apogee gear. And it is, for many including me, the better buy. I have one Prism ADA system and a set of Aurora. The PRism knocks it into next week. But the RMEs (etc) of this world are knocked , in turn, by the Lynx gear into the following month.

For the money you pay - there is no better option than the Lynx - in terms of connectability and raw sound quality. They are far from the best in the world - but the best costs MUCH more.

Userofgear - your points are well founded, but drop the rude and "i know better" attitude. It stinks and makes the unwashed masses not want to listen to your otherwise sound advice.
Old 5th September 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
 
s0nguy's Avatar
 

You could get a Digi 96i.... that's cheaper... but a sub par piece of kit.

If I were you I would just get the stock 192(or a maxed out one on eBay) and make some music. It sounds really really good.

I have added a UA 2192 to my setup and it sounds "better/different"... more silky. I still track acoustic guitars and certain other instruments through the 192 if it's a big mix if I want a more "crisp" sound.

If you told me I had to make a record with just the Digi192, I wouldn't cry about it..
they are good converters.. worry about what's in front of the A/D.

good luck!

-s0nguy
Old 5th September 2008
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

well, wow again then. you are easily staggered.

you have no idea what the majority of people think. the majority of people using 192 i/o don't participate in dumb listening tests conducted by manufacturers of products, or their associates, who are trying to prove themselves. and you are not one to judge what is and what is not a "properly conducted" "shootout" test. you are swinging at ghosts.

your statement that the aurora can't be beat in terms of quality is absolutely ludicrous, and you making those kind of statements does neither you nor lynx any good.
I am not talking about listening tests conducted by a manufacturer or someone who sells gear. I am talking about actual listening tests between engineers.

You took my "the aurora can't be beat in terms of quality" statement a bit out of context. The Aurora is a great converter and sounds as close to the Prism ADA8 as I've ever heard without being clinical. That's my own personal experience after using an ADA8 for years and then using the Apogees and then using the Auroras as I've already explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
maybe you do not work directly for lynx as an employee, but you work for whatever you have to sell.

i think you basically only use the products you sell, not the other way around.
The beauty of this country is that you are free to think whatever you wish. The reality is quite the opposite and anyone who knows me will tell you the same. I use many products that I don't carry and up until about 6 years ago didn't carry any products. I've been in the studio business for much longer. It was only after explaining all about the gear I was using to my clients and then sending them off to purchase those products from someone else, did I ever envision carrying some of the lines I can truly stand behind. Oh, and to back that up even further, we used to carry Waves. When I stopped using them and could no longer stand behind their business model, I dropped selling their products.

If I just wanted to move boxes wouldn't I be carrying quite a bit more than I do? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
the "calibration situation", as you put it, is not unfortunate. it is a trainwreck in a professional system, which is what the lynx converters are trying to interface with. what are you going to do, send them back to lynx while everyone sits around at the session for a few days getting high and waiting?
No calibration is not cool, I completely agree. However, I, along with many others, no longer use tape and since I use all the same converters, I do not have a need to calibrate the Auroras. If I was to add in another device that was able to be calibrated, I would simply calibrate that device to the Aurora and call it a day. The "no calibration situation" has not stopped me from working and I haven't heard any complaints coming from my customers about it. Like I said, if it's a showstopper for you, don't buy one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
anyhow, the problem with your "approach" is that it smacks of being "shrewd". you are unable to speak honestly about what you sell, because you want to sell it, and you invariably stoop to making some sort of overt, or passive aggressive, attempt to belittle the competition in the hopes of making a sale. however, you find fault that is not actually there, and that is both dishonest and unnecessesary.
Thanks for the advice but I've got a pretty good reputation and a lot of very satisfied clients. They know that I am always honest and upfront. Again, since you don't know me and have never bothered to get in touch (my number's on my website) I think it pretty rude to call me a cheat and a liar (sure you didn't use those words but that's exactly what you're saying).

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
moreover, you fail to fairly apprise people of the shortcomings of the gear you are selling for example, your "fan issue". the 192 i/o's fan is not a problem, and you must know that. you also have to know that the lynx not having a fan is not good. however, in complete denial of reality, you attempt to spin it the other way [i.e. you insinuate a "noisy fan"]. that is bad faith, it is dishonest, and it is manipulative. it is also the oldest trick in the book, almost a proverb. i.e. if there is a problem, paint it as an advantage before anyone can ask about it.
I see no shortcomings in the fact that the Aurora doesn't have a fan. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to and worked with over the years who use 192's and have them in machine rooms because they are so noisy. To date (and it's been a few years now) that I've been using the Aurora's, I have had them in our ISO box and have never had an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
another example is your comment to the original poster about buying a 192 i/o if he "just wants to get up and running". what crap. pretty much all of the recordings in the market place where made using those converters, and you act like they are just barely good enough to consider [like ed meitner is just barely squeaking by]. that's what i mean by sales spin, and being manipulative. maybe you think nobody sees through that smokescreen, but i have news for you, a lot of us have heard it before.
Again, you take my words completely out of context. The original poster talked about spending around $2k for a PT|HD interface. You cannot purchase a new 192 i/o for that price, nor a new Aurora16. I explained that the best bang for the buck was with the Aurora16 but if he was basically only concerned about spending $2k, then he should find a used 192 i/o on eBay. Gee, I don't make any money from that one do I (again, rhetorical).

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
one thing that is a little bit odd is, even though you are essentially using "gearslutz" as a storefront, you do not even buy an advertisement for your company. so you are just being a "userofgearslutz", huh? if i was mr. gearslutz, by golly, i would send someone over to your studio and say, "hey, kittonian / aaron, quick hanging out here causing trouble and trying to sell stuff to all these nice people without even taking out an ad". and, "take off those sunglasses, in the name of the law".
First off, I do not use GS as a storefront. Where you got that I have no idea. Secondly, we are a paid advertiser and supporter of this website. Again, lack of knowledge before you speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
did somebody at digidesign do something bad to you or something? they always speak well of you.
I had a feeling you were somehow tied in with Digi. In fact, I love Digi and think they make great products. PT|HD is hands down the best pro audio environment I've ever had the pleasure of working with. I've also got two close friends in high positions with the company. Guess what? Every time we talk, they ask me more and more about.......... the Aurora. They know it's great and it seems they are actually growing a bit concerned about it taking away marketshare from the 192.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
the lynx box is probably just fine for what it is, and to that extent i have nothing against it, although i think the idea of hacking digidesign's interface was dumb, but let's leave it at that, o.k.? no need to try to sell it as the pinnacle of all mastering devices or something. and no need to try to say its "better" than the 192 i/o, its different, right?
So, I guess you are against any 3rd party interface that tries to make their products compatible with PT|HD. That means, Apogee, Prism, Lynx, etc. They all do it, but only Lynx had the foresight to make theirs sample for sample and port for port accurate to the 192 i/o, thus enabling PT|HD users to get a great converter for a lot less than buying the same i/o setup in multiple 192's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
trying to say that the 192 i/o is not good choice for an interface for pro tools hd is kind of silly.
I have never said the 192 isn't a pro converter. I have simply said that after hearing the differences between Prism, Apogee, Digi and Lynx, I chose the Auroras and couldn't be happier. With the amount of i/o provided, the PT|HD integration, only taking up 1U of rack space, and priced at less than half of a 192 or Apogee setup of the same amount of i/o, it seems to make perfect sense.
Old 5th September 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Extensive user of both 192s and the lynx - to my ears I marginally prefer the Lynx - which sounds especially good at 88/96 (never tried higher). I do find this frustrating as I only have a HD2 so for big productions I have to keep it at 44.1 and it is a noticeable step down - much more so than other converters it seems - anyone else experienced this? For example on a RME fireface I can't readily tell the difference between sample rates but would be confident to identify elevated rates with the lynx.

I actually think the lynx holds it own really well against anything at 88.2 - IMO we are taking very small improvements for big chunks of cash. However - i guess with the right circumstances (and budget) those small gains are more than worth it. However - in the vast majority of circumstances I really doubt the lynx would ever be the limiting factor sonically. However I will say that at a studio I work at they have a 96 and a 192 and the difference in quality is not that subtle at all so even if a 96 came up very cheap i would generally avoid.

Given the original posters request for a budget friendly device and his requirements surely a Aurora 8 with lt-hd card is the way to go?

Please - no one be mean to me for interface opinions! I'm having a bad week as it is!
(why is everyone getting so friggin hostile in these parts?)

Last edited by Mr XY; 5th September 2008 at 07:29 PM.. Reason: bad spelling!
Old 6th September 2008
  #19
Gear Addict
 

from the gearslutz faq

hello,

from the gearslutz faq:


Can manufacturers, equipment vendors or equipment industry insiders register & post on Gearslutz.com?


Yes.. However they need to be mindful that the site is primarily a gear USERS forum and should NOT post only to promote their products (except in the New Products forum - see below) or to generate sales . The following behavior is also discouraged by manufacturers, equipment vendors, and equipment industry insiders (post deletion may result if not carefully observed). 1) Posting details of past or ongoing disputes between manufactures, gear vendors or distributors. Please note THE SITE IS NOT TO BE USED FOR WASHING "DIRTY LAUNDRY". 2) Trashing of other manufacturers products or rival dealers product range is unwelcome by dealers & manufacturers. This includes suggestions not to buy, that products are poorly made etc. 3) Manufacturers are VERY WELCOME and encouraged to post up a notice / press release about new products in our New Product Alert forum. (Posting the same info in multiple forums is NOT ALLOWED!) 4) Dealers are welcome to post up notices of gear shoot out evenings and or special product launch demonstrations at their showrooms. 5) It is best to register under your real name or company name so people know who is posting. (It is FORBIDDEN for manufacturers to register under a bogus identity for the purposes of equipment promotion, trashing rivals or any other covert activity. Discovery of alternate or bogus identities will result in a BAN from the site.) 6) To post info on competitions and give-a-ways you must: a) be running Gearslutz.com banner ads and b) buy a separate campaign (with its own banner) just for the competition or give-a-way and c) your post must be cleared with the site admin first. (contact thepressdesk AT gearslutz.com) Could it be said there was one rule for some people and another for others? - YES. With thousands of recording engineers registered, the bias must be towards them and not manufacturers or equipment dealers. Thus, in some way, the sites reputation, one of of genuine equipment user opinion, can be preserved. Many equipment vendors are also engineers but in the case of inter company disputes & trashing of rivals, this forum's hammer falls on the side of these individuals being gear dealers. Keep it OUTSIDE folks.. ! Jules, the site admin is VERY HAPPY to advise and answer any questions on how manufacturers, gear vendors & distributors can best participate in the forum and deal with situations that may arise. Please do NOT hesitate to contact him at jules @ gearslutz.com at any time. Thank you!


userofgear
Old 6th September 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

from the gearslutz faq:


Can manufacturers, equipment vendors or equipment industry insiders register & post on Gearslutz.com?


Yes.. However they need to be mindful that the site is primarily a gear USERS forum and should NOT post only to promote their products (except in the New Products forum - see below) or to generate sales . The following behavior is also discouraged by manufacturers, equipment vendors, and equipment industry insiders (post deletion may result if not carefully observed). 1) Posting details of past or ongoing disputes between manufactures, gear vendors or distributors. Please note THE SITE IS NOT TO BE USED FOR WASHING "DIRTY LAUNDRY". 2) Trashing of other manufacturers products or rival dealers product range is unwelcome by dealers & manufacturers. This includes suggestions not to buy, that products are poorly made etc. 3) Manufacturers are VERY WELCOME and encouraged to post up a notice / press release about new products in our New Product Alert forum. (Posting the same info in multiple forums is NOT ALLOWED!) 4) Dealers are welcome to post up notices of gear shoot out evenings and or special product launch demonstrations at their showrooms. 5) It is best to register under your real name or company name so people know who is posting. (It is FORBIDDEN for manufacturers to register under a bogus identity for the purposes of equipment promotion, trashing rivals or any other covert activity. Discovery of alternate or bogus identities will result in a BAN from the site.) 6) To post info on competitions and give-a-ways you must: a) be running Gearslutz.com banner ads and b) buy a separate campaign (with its own banner) just for the competition or give-a-way and c) your post must be cleared with the site admin first. (contact thepressdesk AT gearslutz.com) Could it be said there was one rule for some people and another for others? - YES. With thousands of recording engineers registered, the bias must be towards them and not manufacturers or equipment dealers. Thus, in some way, the sites reputation, one of of genuine equipment user opinion, can be preserved. Many equipment vendors are also engineers but in the case of inter company disputes & trashing of rivals, this forum's hammer falls on the side of these individuals being gear dealers. Keep it OUTSIDE folks.. ! Jules, the site admin is VERY HAPPY to advise and answer any questions on how manufacturers, gear vendors & distributors can best participate in the forum and deal with situations that may arise. Please do NOT hesitate to contact him at jules @ gearslutz.com at any time. Thank you!


userofgear


+1 !!!!
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
Old 6th September 2008
  #21
JPZ
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

that's another b.s. post, designed to take advantage of someone's inexperience and indecision.

you indicate that an aurora will have "perfect PTHD integration", which is not necessarily the case. in any event, if you want perfect PTHD integration, you should obviously buy a digidesign product.

the fact that the aurora lacks a fan is not a plus, but a defect. it should have a fan, but they did not have room or money to include one. the [cheaper] converter chips used in the aurora box are known for having problems with overheating, which is why they have been abandoned by some manufacturers altogether.

the digidesign unit is a professional piece of equipment, with a fan, and you want a fan. the fan in the 192 i/o is also quieter than your computer, by the way.

also, the aurora box does not even have input trims for calibration, and it is factory set at a weird input level. you could never even use the thing properly in conjunction with tape in a pro situation. that is a complete non-starter, especially if you want to work with anyone else, or in a larger studio. there is no decent interface that i am aware of that totally lacks input trims. that is ridiculous.

you can easily and cheaply add inputs or outputs to a 192 i/o, and it also has tons of connectivity right out of the box that is simply not present or even available as an upgrade on the aurora box, including realtime sample rate conversion, adatlink, spdif, and so forth.

lynx claims to have hacked the digidesign interface to make themselves "compatible". yeah, and in order for the aurora box to be purportedly "compatible" with pro tools you lose all the digital i/o, right?

also, there are plenty of people complaining about problems with compatibility between their aurora boxes and pro tools. if you want actual compatibility, buy a 192 i/o.

the aurora is a stripped down, bang-for-the-buck solution, with cheaper converters, and it has no sonic benefit whatsoever. in fact, the digidesign box sounds better, as would be expected.

finally the typical "It really just comes down to what you want from your new rig and whether you're willing to spend the money it takes to achieve those goals", comment is meaningless saledude pyschobabble. same crap you hear from every shyster commission-working saleman on the internet or in music stores. it reminds me of the garment center in Manhattan. taking advantage of tourists. who needs that condescending b.s.?

you can achieve your goals if you try [with or without aurora].

it would be one thing if you [lynx, whoever] just presented your wares with some sort of integrity, but you don't. you stoop to using subtle passive-aggressive comments and criticism, in an effort to belittle the very product lynx claims to have "reverse engineered", the digidesign 192 i/o.

also, check this out:
<http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&langid=100&itemid=25667>

let digidesign know you are using an aurora interface, and you may be kissing support goodbye.

word.

i don't sell equipment.

userofgear
The 192, while of course perfectly integrated with Pro Tools (duh), is an outdated, not very good sounding converter box.
Old 6th September 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
The 192, while of course perfectly integrated with Pro Tools (duh), is an outdated, not very good sounding converter box.
Then you must be deaf.
Old 6th September 2008
  #23
JPZ
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Then you must be deaf.
Hahaha...now there's an adult response. I would say compared to the converters I usually use instead (mytek, lavry, apogee, panasonic) the 192 is a decidedly bad sounding box. Maybe you've never heard anything else.
Old 6th September 2008
  #24
Gear Addict
 

no really

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
Hahaha...now there's an adult response. I would say compared to the converters I usually use instead (mytek, lavry, apogee, panasonic) the 192 is a decidedly bad sounding box. Maybe you've never heard anything else.
hello,

no, really, you must be deaf. we've heard and used all kinds of stuff. i'm pretty sure you're deaf. but suit yourself.


userofgear
Old 6th September 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
 
MonoBrow's Avatar
 

Aurora,192,apogee.Go out and hear them.I never found the 192 a bad converter.Its not the holy grail either but cmon.....some people talk about it like its some m-audio box from 2001.
Old 6th September 2008
  #26
I think a good bang for the buck is the IZ Radar ADA. That's the route I'd go.
Old 6th September 2008
  #27
JPZ
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

no, really, you must be deaf. we've heard and used all kinds of stuff. i'm pretty sure you're deaf. but suit yourself.


userofgear
Another adult response. One more and you win! See what kind of magical powers of persuasion you have?
Old 7th September 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
Hahaha...now there's an adult response. I would say compared to the converters I usually use instead (mytek, lavry, apogee, panasonic) the 192 is a decidedly bad sounding box. Maybe you've never heard anything else.
I've not heard one respectable engineer that I know that's claimed that the 192 is a 'bad sounding box'. That's a kind of comment I'd expect from a teenager that's never used professional gear in a professional environment and has only read and dreamt of the gear of his dreams on magazines and forums, all the while criticizing gear (and an incredibly non-constructive one at that) that they've never used, just because they can name some other gears that they read about.
Hey, that's what it sounds like in my opinion, but I'm sure you're a top, top pro making wonderful recordings for a living without the dreaded 192s.
Old 7th September 2008
  #29
JPZ
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I've not heard one respectable engineer that I know that's claimed that the 192 is a 'bad sounding box'. That's a kind of comment I'd expect from a teenager that's never used professional gear in a professional environment and has only read and dreamt of the gear of his dreams on magazines and forums, all the while criticizing gear (and an incredibly non-constructive one at that) that they've never used, just because they can name some other gears that they read about.
Hey, that's what it sounds like in my opinion, but I'm sure you're a top, top pro making wonderful recordings for a living without the dreaded 192s.
I'm sorry you can't trust people but yeah, I use the gear, yeah I've used PT since probably way before you ever heard of it. Yeah, I come from old school analog and yes I've worked in some pretty great studios and on some pretty big projects. Maybe I over spoke when I said 192's were bad. Honestly I *personally* never liked the 192 box from the day it first came out. At the time HD came out I was using souped up 888/24's clocked externally with Ramsa/Panasonic AD96 converters - still considered by some to be a pretty great sounding box even all these years later - and didn't see what the big deal with the 192 was. I think if you ask most pro guys what they'd rather have a 192 or apogee/lavry/mytek et al I think they'll choose the latter.
Old 7th September 2008
  #30
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
Maybe I over spoke when I said 192's were bad.
You did indeed. And THAT was the point, without bringing any other converter into the equation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
I think if you ask most pro guys what they'd rather have a 192 or apogee/lavry/mytek et al I think they'll choose the latter.
All engineers have their preferences when it comes to sound. That's obvious.
If we're keeping this subject within the Pro Tools world, then I don't think your statement's true. ADC is a huge part of PTHD and its attraction. Most pros, including myself, would probably say that Pro Tools would be so much better if Digidesign could make the software more flexible so that the more expensive/accurate/colored/whatever converters could be used trouble-free so the option would be there for us to use if we wish.
But your last statement's waaay too general (just like the '192 sounds bad' statement) and the fact that there are more 192s in use in conjunction with PTHD in major and project/private studios than any other converter says a lot. Yes, Apogees used to make a huge difference in the Mix days (lots of studio's, including ours had them) but it's not as big a difference now between the two (in terms of accuracy/clock) for one to emphatically claim one being good and the other being bad. I can't comment on Mytek and Lavry. I've only ever had access to a Mytek clock some time ago. Maybe they're quite a fair bit better, but they cost a lot more too. I don't think the two fit into the context of the thread. The only comparable ones out there are Lynx and Apogee.

You highlighted *personally* in your last post, which I have no problem with. What was the problem was the bold statement you came out with in your initial post that could be horribly misconstrued by those that may not have a lot of knowledge in the subject.
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