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UAD2 is a PCIE card Dynamics Plugins
Old 31st August 2008
  #1711
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superjimmer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
This really isn't very impressive, is it:
UAD Forums • View topic - Installed a UAD2 Solo Today - some initial info
(7 mono Plate 140's, or 6 mono Nve 33609's fill up a Solo card)
I know this is a common argument I'm making but who the hell needs six 33609's in a mix?

It is typically a buss comp and a personality comp at that.

That said we are talking about a Solo UAD2 and that is a pretty impressive number if you ask me as the previous card could only handle one 33609. You move on to a DUO/QUAD and you have plenty of power. Assuming the SOLO is a hobbyist card one should feel pretty lucky that such a compressor is available at all.

The way I see it the UAD2 is a fair tool. It is apparently not for everyone but that is for us to decide: do we want a dongle/pcie hardware based plugin system or not?

It's not a native system but that is the fun of the whole game. One aspect of gear (whether it is virtual or hardware) is the inspiration factor. The sonics and performance are always most important and UA has those aspects covered in my book.

But inspiration and limitations are what make the music world go around too. Learn to love the limitations of the UAD in the same way an analog studio engineer must learn to: it's actually part of what makes music production so fun. Where do I use my 33609? Where do I use my four 1176's? what about my 2 fairchild's? This is how it has always been.

And I must admit that I like having the hardware cards as well. It's inspiring and somewhat fun to know that these plugs aren't being hacked all over creation . . . and that I have some sort of metal/electronics as well. It's inspiring in the way that I work.

Bottom line is the UA products are not cheap but they are not prohibitive. Especially the actual plugin costs. It's an analog mindset and to me it is a fun way to work. that is valid. It is not for everyone . . . but if you cannot mix a song with these DSP resources it's likely not because of UA's business plan.

It's about having fun and making music and UA helps me do both.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1712
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feck's Avatar
Well, there have been tons of posts waiting for this card, and now there will be tons of posts of people talking about it. Let's just hope there are tons of people making kickass music with it.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1713
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Well, there have been tons of posts waiting for this card, and now there will be tons of posts of people talking about it. Let's just hope there are tons of people making kickass music with it.
You can make music with it?
Old 31st August 2008
  #1714
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Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigmaDeltaAudio View Post
Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're making an inference on very bad logic. For all you know they could have crippled the plugin so they could sell more UAD cards, or they simply were lazy with the dsp optimization. Given UA's history with the UAD-1, and the dsp-card industry in general both seem plausible. Perhaps it is a fantastic sounding plugin, but you can not tell by DSP usage.
There are other explanations you haven't explored. For example, plug-ins that utilize upsamping or model distortion use more DSP than ones that don't. Also, if a plug-in is truly component modeled, it stands to reason that a simpler circuit requires simpler coding.

Ultimately, a logic argument is fruitless here because none of us have access to the necessary documents that to 100% prove our positions. However, any sane, reasonable person should be able to utilize years of consistent statistal analysis (i.e. experience) and rational thinking to understand why some plug-ins use more DSP than others.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1715
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Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
UA stated that some plugs requiring more power has nothing to do with quality. The La2a requires a lot less DSP than the Neve 1073 on UAD-1 because of whatever blah blah blah it takes to make it all work. I can't remember the spill they gave, but it's on their website.
Anyway, my point is this: Massey Tapehead isn't DSP heavy, but it is a fantastic plug. Logic Platinum Verb sucks at being a verb plug while Tapehead rocks at what it does. Different emulations of different gear require different processes.
You've made some excellent points that actually support the argument you're trying to refute to some degree. As you say, it's ridiculous to compare plug-ins like the LA2A, 1073, Tapehead, and Platinum Verb because they all utilize different processes and technology. However, if you analyze only the EQ plug-ins, it's plain to see that there is definitely a correlation of quality to processing requirements.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1716
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Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by outcastrising View Post
I wonder if there is a technical reason (piracy aside) that these plug-ins MUST run on the DSP card?
There is no technical reason for it. The plug-ins are actually developed natively first and then ported to the DSP's after. That said, you absolutely must not discount the piracy issue and how it affects both UA and their development partners. I spoke with Dave at Cranesong years ago about porting their TDM plug-ins to VST and he became instantly indignant, as if I had insulted him personally by even bringing the issue up. I guarantee you that UA would not have been able to get licenses from the likes of Neve, et al, if their system was not as bulletproof as it is.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1717
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Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
Why didn't they make card run on PCI-E 16X instead of 1X? Did I miss something here? Wouldn't PCI-E-16 allow a lot more plugins per card?
What you're saying makes sense to some degree and I imagine UA could release a monster 16-DSP 16x PCIe card (40x the power of a UAD-1) eventually. As it is, though, PCIe 1x is fine for the 4-DSP cards currently being released.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1718
Gear Addict
I haven't been following UAD for a while and just found out about the UAD-2 from their mailing. I own 3 UAD-1's. Nevertheless I'm very happy to see UAD-2 finally arrive. What really pisses me off though is the fact that UA is forcing me to buy a UAD-2 before the end of the year. The whole crossgrade scheme is an outrage! I own almost all plugs. Which means if I don't buy a new card by the end of the year I have to pay extra $250 to be able to use the plugs I already paid for on the new card. That's f***ing BULL****!!! My budget for the year has already been spent (and then some). Besides if I were to buy a UAD-2 card it would be a quad (simply because I have only one PCI-e slot available), and that's $1500! There is no way I can get that kind of cash in the next few months.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1719
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Won't uad have a mobile solution for laptop users?
TD
Old 31st August 2008
  #1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by D K View Post
Don't sweat it Dave - It's a silly post by another silly UAD Fanboy who refuses to read before spewing all over the net....

and btw.. I am a UAD fan and heavy user but at least I'm not so far up UADs a** that I can think clearly and question a questionable at best marketing and roll out strategy
Fanboy no...

I like UA's plugs, and the quality of their products. But as said in my previous post I buy other plugs also (I buy what I need, not hype)...and still may decide to go with a Waves pack over UAD 2.

You guys want to buy a Ford but whinge when it don't perform like a Porsche. You want to buy this years Ford but whinge when next years Ford has more options for the same price. Everyone thinks they know how to run everyone's business better than they do.... (programming and marketing experts) Whinge, whinge.

The UAD2 is what it is buy or don't, not one's forcing you to do anything.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1721
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch View Post
Guess all im trying to say is that all these companies do what they do because it makes financial sense... UAD-2 was ready for all platforms except protools, and its being called a beta, or a waste of time or too expensive or whatever..

Call me a UAD fanboy, but I didnt come on Gearslutz to diss Soundtoys when they didnt release a VST version of their plugs
do you really want the programmers to work for free?
is it fair that RTAS and AU Mac users have to pay developments of plugs so
VST gets cracked on the same day of its release?

from UADs instance charts i will open exactly twice as much plugins
you are free to pay UADs R&D if you think its worth it
Old 31st August 2008
  #1722
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
I'm sorry if I live in 2008 and realize native computers are fast enough to support plenty of plugins. fuuck

It's a shame they didn't go native with this release.... there's no reason to be tied to anyone's DSP hardware units in this era of computer processing.
Ok, so you claim that UAD plugins can run Native. Maybe they can, but you cannot back this up, neither can I by saying that 2 instances of UAD LA2A when ported to naitive uses 80% of a Quad 6600 cpu.. I very much doubt that UAD plugins can run enough multiple instances natively with latest cpu's in a fully equipped DAW. Maybe if they go down some levels in their algorithms to Waves quality. heh

Waves is cracked, URS is cracked, UAD is not, Duende is not, TC is not, etc,.. It's a shame there are people like dfegad you dissing DSP without being able to backup your statements. You realize **** fuuck If the UAD cards are only a dongle to the plugins then so be it.. That dongle proves to work and even saves me native processing power..
Old 31st August 2008
  #1723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrelNote View Post
Ok, so you claim that UAD plugins can run Native. Maybe they can, but you cannot back this up, neither can I by saying that 2 instances of UAD LA2A when ported to naitive uses 80% of a Quad 6600 cpu.. I very much doubt that UAD plugins can run enough multiple instances natively with latest cpu's in a fully equipped DAW. Maybe if they go down some levels in their algorithms to Waves quality. heh

Waves is cracked, URS is cracked, UAD is not, Duende is not, TC is not, etc,.. It's a shame there are people like dfegad you dissing DSP without being able to backup your statements. You realize **** fuuck If the UAD cards are only a dongle to the plugins then so be it.. That dongle proves to work and even saves me native processing power..

Cracked for PC not for MAC
Old 31st August 2008
  #1724
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Cracked for PC not for MAC
what is a mac?
Old 31st August 2008
  #1725
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samzamir View Post
what is a mac?
Its something you will buy in time...... heh
Old 31st August 2008
  #1726
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Bhang's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Why would you hope it's a joke? You do understand that oftentimes the best sounding plugins are the ones that require massive amounts of DSP to run, right?

If you don't believe that, check out the Algorithmix EQ's sometime.

Now, if you're one of those people who is happy to sacrifice sonic quality for quantity, then THAT would seem too believable on Gearslutz. tutt
Hey guys. Where can I find the info on this moog filter. I'm very curious. I sit on the fence on this one. I like most here do not want any corners cut on ANYTHING for the uad-2. However, it does sound crazy for a single filter to eat this much juice. Just curious what this filter has that would make more of a system hog than the neve bus compressor. Is it me or does this sound backwards? As well, in regards to the comments about " I love when they use this much juice ... means they didn't cut corners". That or they have yet streamlined the code. I hear fantastic stuff about the neve plug ins, so I imagine no corners were cut there, yet they use less juice? Is this right? It just seems that it should be the other way around.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1727
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Cracked for PC not for MAC
There are also plenty of plugins and software that are cracked for Mac. Bottom line, if UAD went totally native, their stuff would be cracked one way or the other no doubt, and it would cannibalize the sales they've got going for them now.

Look, it's clear as day that UA sticks with the UAD card primarily for piracy reasons. In this day and age, NO DSP card can hang with the multi-core computers that are out there now. But so what? The way I see it, the fact that UAD cannot (or has not) been cracked is exactly the reason they were able to get partners to sign on board, such as Empirical Labs, SPL, Little Labs and Neve. Even those companies have said as much, since piracy was a huge fear for them getting into the plugin world, and rightly so.

So as far as I'm concerned, having the UAD be a glorified dongle is fine by me if it means that we can get more companies to license their products as plugins, who otherwise wouldn't because of piracy concerns.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1728
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Bhang's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
There are also plenty of plugins and software that are cracked for Mac. Bottom line, if UAD went totally native, their stuff would be cracked one way or the other no doubt, and it would cannibalize the sales they've got going for them now.

Look, it's clear as day that UA sticks with the UAD card primarily for piracy reasons. In this day and age, NO DSP card can hang with the multi-core computers that are out there now. But so what? The way I see it, the fact that UAD cannot (or has not) been cracked is exactly the reason they were able to get partners to sign on board, such as Empirical Labs, SPL, Little Labs and Neve. Even those companies have said as much, since piracy was a huge fear for them getting into the plugin world, and rightly so.

So as far as I'm concerned, having the UAD be a glorified dongle is fine by me if it means that we can get more companies to license their products as plugins, who otherwise wouldn't because of piracy concerns.
True, but I think there is more to it. It is absolutely a dongle. No question about that, but it is also for getting a little closer to TDM latency and quality. Even on a hardcore quad system using a handful of Angeltone plug ins already puts serious stress on the processor. Good algorithms are pretty harsh on the cpu as we see here earlier with this moog filter. I would love to be able to run my system with a buffer of 128 or less all the time, but I run out of power very very fast. I'm still stuck at 512 for most things .
Old 31st August 2008
  #1729
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Arksun's Avatar
This thread concerns me a bit:

UAD Forums • View topic - EDIT: UAD-2 Quad Overloading my CPU

I hope that's just a software driver issue.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
do you really want the programmers to work for free?
is it fair that RTAS and AU Mac users have to pay developments of plugs so
VST gets cracked on the same day of its release?

from UADs instance charts i will open exactly twice as much plugins
you are free to pay UADs R&D if you think its worth it
Do you think its fair that Steinberg users have to pay top dollar for their Cubase or Nuendo when everybody else can just go pick up their Logic, Ableton, Protools or whatnot through the Demon's Bay?

Guess whos not doing their job in terms of protection...
Old 31st August 2008
  #1731
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
Fanboy no...

I like UA's plugs, and the quality of their products. But as said in my previous post I buy other plugs also (I buy what I need, not hype)...and still may decide to go with a Waves pack over UAD 2.

You guys want to buy a Ford but whinge when it don't perform like a Porsche. You want to buy this years Ford but whinge when next years Ford has more options for the same price. Everyone thinks they know how to run everyone's business better than they do.... (programming and marketing experts) Whinge, whinge.

The UAD2 is what it is buy or don't, not one's forcing you to do anything.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1732
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamzone View Post
A computer that works...
Mine works...alot better than a MAC too!
Old 31st August 2008
  #1733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
Here you go: o0o.it :: Mac Pro Xeon Upgrade And Overclock Guide

But my last post applies here.. when Apple ships new Mac Pros with the Intel Nehalem chips they will undoubtedly require a new motherboard, and by the time you would buy a motherboard, the CPUs, and new RAM, you could sell your Mac Pro and buy a new one for less money.
I'm lost. This is a void your warranty "do it yourself" thing. No thanks. I thought it was official. Your statement is correct. If they change the motherboard each time- There is no "real' upgrade path as of yet.
Old 31st August 2008
  #1734
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch View Post
Do you think its fair that Steinberg users have to pay top dollar for their Cubase or Nuendo when everybody else can just go pick up their Logic, Ableton, Protools or whatnot through the Demon's Bay?
Did you mean Pirat eBay?
Old 31st August 2008
  #1735
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scott petito's Avatar
 

one thing I'm curious about is how UAD 2 will work in PTHD.... right now it works but PT sees the wrapped plugs in an odd way and actually assumes you are using your cpu for processing even though the UAD card is doing the processing... check your performance meter and you will see using a number of UAD plugs takes a big hit to the rtas meter.... your host as it were.... that needs to be fixed by somebody..... also when using UAD plugs in a Parallel compression setup the plugins do not delay compensate properly...... try sending drums to 2 aux busses put the same UAD plugs on each aux for example a neve 1073 and a Fairchild bypass the plugs on one buss and you will see that they are not sample accurate with or without delay compensation on...... do the same thing with an Waves api for instance and it's perfectly in phase ....I don't know who needs to do the fix but again it's a problem ...makes any kind of parallel work impossible

otherwise I think the new cards look very promising

cheers
SP
Old 31st August 2008
  #1736
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=kasprouch;3314345] Do you think its fair that Steinberg users have to pay top dollar for their Cubase or Nuendo when everybody else can just go pick up their Logic, Ableton, Protools or whatnot through the Demon's Bay?

Guess whos not doing their job in terms of protection...[/QUOTE
]

my Cubase 4 and UAD-1 Ultra lost about 70% in value within 2 years

dont think you will get a Mac 8-core for 700$ in two years
Old 31st August 2008
  #1737
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Jamzone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeper_6 View Post
Mine works...alot better than a MAC too!
So your songs are hits from the start now??

Would'nt have a PC anywhere near a studio....
Old 31st August 2008
  #1738
Gear Nut
 
JD Latorre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
[]


dont think you will get a Mac 8-core for 700$ in two years
I wish! If so I would wait until then to upgradeheh

A dual core G5 2.5/2.7 (that's a pre intel machine) still fetches over a 1000 on ebay and other reseller sites. Those machines are almost 3 years old. I thought sure the cost of those machines would plummet once the 8 cores came out.

(but that's good for me, cuse I have dual 2.7--I hope to sell it and get the new mac pro sometime this spring).
Old 31st August 2008
  #1739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
[]

my Cubase 4 and UAD-1 Ultra lost about 70% in value within 2 years

dont think you will get a Mac 8-core for 700$ in two years
True, think I'll buy myself a 16 core chip and a new motherboard in 2 years for $700...

Its a silly argument cuz its Apple fanboys vs PC DIY'ers... Dont really think that today the Mac Pro really offers much in terms of an advantage over a well built and ''maintained'' PC.. Those who say a PC is weak and unreliable unfortunately do not know how to take care of their rigs: And that means knowing your OS, not just your sequencer inside out!

Writing you from my Macbook! I love it

Peace
Old 31st August 2008
  #1740
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ProducerBoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Dahlberg View Post
You've made some excellent points that actually support the argument you're trying to refute to some degree. As you say, it's ridiculous to compare plug-ins like the LA2A, 1073, Tapehead, and Platinum Verb because they all utilize different processes and technology. However, if you analyze only the EQ plug-ins, it's plain to see that there is definitely a correlation of quality to processing requirements.
Ok. So you are suggesting that the 1081 is UAD's finest EQ plug followed closely by the 1073 which tops the Helios? So then the 88rs doesn't come close to the UAD's other EQ plugs. Oh, and forget the Cambridge. That thing must be pretty ugly by comparison. I guess the 1081 is about 14 times better cause it uses about 14 times the processing? I suppose the 33609 must put all the other UAD comps to utter shame in terms of quality.
I don't believe so. Like the people who actually CODED the plugs said themselves... the DSP usage has less to do with quality and more to do with what is demanded of the processor to carry out the upsampling/downsampling required to accurately emulate the filters of the analog piece being emulated. The Pultec and 1081 are both up and downsampled, yet the Pultec requires half the DSP. DSP usage is raised by the processes required to emulate that specific piece of gear, not quality.
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