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UAD2 is a PCIE card Dynamics Plugins
Old 29th August 2008
  #1471
Gear Maniac
 

I'm a loyal user at those prices put me down in the pissed off camp, I'd have to upgrade my computer anyway but at this point I'll just wait.

To me the Genius of the card has never been about the DSP, it's basically a glorified dongle without most of the hassles, the real investment most people have is in their plugs.

I think one reason the price is so high is they realize most people already have a ton of plugs and would not spend a lot more right away, just use more instances of what they have.

Since they don't have a lot of stuff in the pipeline at the moment this way they can make a ton more money.

I agree the quad card should be $599, offer crossgrade deals, but make porting the plugs over free.

Then come out with more newer plugs and people will buy them.

I'll go out on a limb and predict with newer, more CPU intensive plugs, people will be bitching in a year that they no longer have enough CPU.

I'm overdubbing on a project tonight that is running two cards at like 75%, I usually don't work all ITB but I have to for the moment because my big rig with real outboard is down for a remodeling.

At $1500 this just makes me want to stay with my hardware outboard stuff.....

Analogeezer
Old 29th August 2008
  #1472
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
There is nothing more to these cards than a couple of computer parts slapped together, the rest is magic and free....
don't they also have to pay a license for the use of logos etc. ?

might explain part of the cost.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1473
Lives for gear
 
chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Brad, I'm keeping my UAD-1 and am going to run it alongside a UAD-2. I don't know, doesn't seem maybe worth it to dump it at this point...and yes I paid for my card even though I'm a dealer!
There are a few plugins that still need to be ported over (promised to be there soon). From UA's site:
  • Roland® RE-201
  • Precision Maximizer
  • Precision De-Esser
  • Precision Buss Compressor
  • Precision Enhancer kHz
  • SPL® Transient Designer™
  • VCA VU
  • NOTE: Nigel has been discontinued for UAD-2
So, hanging on to a UAD-1 card may be prudent for some. UAD-2 is a v.01 card, after all.

Me, I'm picking up a UAD-2. For my line of work, it's worth it. I mix ITB. I don't do so with Protools. I love the plugs. I like having lots of native and on-board proc power working for me. And I'll make money using it (which is the point for me).
Old 29th August 2008
  #1474
Gear Maniac
 
dione's Avatar
The new Moog multimode filter plug-in looks very cool too...
Old 29th August 2008
  #1475
Gear Head
 

So did UA put some kind of embargo on musiciansfriend to keep them behind other retailers by two weeks for dropping the info early? They seem to be the only ones who aren't shipping for another two weeks.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by jba View Post
Forgive me for asking this question, but I'm not clear on this issue---if I sell my UAD-1 Mackie card and all my other UAD-1 cards, will I have to purchase the 1176 and LA2A for UAD-2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Dahlberg View Post
Technically speaking, this is how it's supposed to work but we've seen people hang on to their 1176LN and LA2A licenses after selling their Mackie cards. YMMV.
When you sell a card you either transfer all or none of your plug licenses. But if you buy a new (say Solo) card they include those base free plugs.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1477
Lives for gear
They aren't forcing you to buy the new card. I think it's reasonable that if you choose to buy the new 'engine' for those plugs, you pay a small fee to use existing software on it. Especially since they are providing 4 months to transfer for free.

For people excited enough with UAD to have most of the plugs already, they should be excited enough to pick up the card before 2009. The fact that you can choose which card the plugs run off of helps as well.

... And you know, there's gonna be discounts on the older plug-ins as the newer ones start rolling out. Especially around holidays and season transitions. If you plan carefully, you'll absorb the cost of the crossover. Never buy the plug-ins when they 1st drop.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1478
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoink View Post
I guess lots of us G5 owners will now have to get an intel mac...

No way around it really.
Yeah, this is the only problem for me. They are basically saying I need to buy a new Intel Mac, replace my RME PCI soundcard, and buy a UAD-2... all within the next four months. I planned to do all of that within the next year or two anyway, but that's a lot of cash to spend all at once, not to mention completely changing up the entire heart of the studio. I'm probably better off just eating the $250 crossgrade fee on the many, many plugins I own and waiting for the right moment. Which is fine I guess, but UAD has always been so cool to their users it's a little weird, and leaves a bit of a sour taste after what is otherwise really great news.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1479
Gear Nut
 

Is there an ETA on the Moog plugin?
Old 29th August 2008
  #1480
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
I think it's reasonable that if you choose to buy the new 'engine' for those plugs, you pay a small fee to use existing software on it. Especially since they are providing 4 months to transfer for free.
Are you kidding? That is totally effing OBNOXIOUS on their part.

TONE-DEAF.

They will NEVER actually charge that fee. So why THREATEN the users with it?

"BUY THIS CARD NOW OR WE KILL THIS PUPPY."

They don't even have all the plugins running, nor does the thing run on the industry standard DAW yet!

They shouldn't have shown that vain video of the management gloating. My impression of everyone in that vid other than Putnam Jr. was "lager lout." I see why the company is underperforming.

tutt
Old 29th August 2008
  #1481
Lives for gear
Damn, I just bought a new guitar amp this morning, so now I won't have the cash for a UAD-2 for a month or two!! I desperately want (and need) the UAD-2, but must resist all temptation to go further into credit card debt!!



The odds are good that I will be going into further debt.
- Chris
Old 29th August 2008
  #1482
Lives for gear
 
chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I see why the company is underperforming.
Is it? All I see is the usual kvetching for which GS is known and loved.

Well, I'm taking the standard GS convention wisdom and not heeding the opinions of anyone here. LOL!

If you have a company, you know which investments are good for you and which are not.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1483
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

I'm like their #1 cheerleader on this site. They should at least be able to introduce a product so their #1 cheerleader doesn't find much to hate about it.

Bad management.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1484
I don't know what the old chip was, but unless it was in the same family as the current chip, and given how hold it is even that might not help, running your existing plugs on it wouldn't be very practical probably. It might well have required some emulation layer that would have made it no better or worse performing than your existing card is with the old versions of the plugs.

Just a guess, but it's probably way easier to say it should run the old plugs than to actually make it do so.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1485
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
I think the price is great and I just ordered one 2 minutes ago.
Does anybody know if the old cards share DSP power with the new cards or can we sell the old cards.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1486
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
I don't know what the old chip was, but unless it was in the same family as the current chip, and given how hold it is even that might not help, running your existing plugs on it wouldn't be very practical probably. It might well have required some emulation layer that would have made it no better or worse performing than your existing card is with the old versions of the plugs.

Just a guess, but it's probably way easier to say it should run the old plugs than to actually make it do so.
If it turns out that you can't run existing plugs on the new card, you're gonna have a LOT of angry users. The 1st people who will buy the new card are people that already own cards and plugs.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1487
Lives for gear
 
latestflavor's Avatar
 

hmmm, entitlement. anything wrong with your current cards?

to me they just leave themselves open to competition, you need their card for their plugs but they dont have a monopoly on good plug design, now do they?

so if youre not on PT HD dsp (where plugs are already priced hi) then compare the sound of the new UAD to current native offerings. or compare it to powercore, duende, whatever you want (did ya see the price of the CL1b???)

if their algos are that much better sounding, buy it, if not don't.

everyone is just waiting for native equivalents anyways because who wants dsp that doesn't need it? apple is dying to sell you dsp.

theres already great plugs out there that are native, hopefully more coming soon given the prices of their competition.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1488
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocktober View Post
I seriously doubt that. Odds are that AD-(a seriously huge co ) will have a new sharc within 18 months or so, perhaps even a 'multicore' sharc. UA will simply update their board layout, and presto, U3 with even more power + lower cost. (Sharcs are backwards software compatible), so no re-porting of any plugs or drivers, etc. You laugh? If UA doesn't use a newer/faster sharc, a competitor will.
Back of silicon nerd, i was just making light of the situation. as in joking.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1489
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
I don't know what the old chip was, but unless it was in the same family as the current chip, and given how hold it is even that might not help, running your existing plugs on it wouldn't be very practical probably. It might well have required some emulation layer that would have made it no better or worse performing than your existing card is with the old versions of the plugs.

Just a guess, but it's probably way easier to say it should run the old plugs than to actually make it do so.
If you're actually in this business you know that you don't buy CODE you buy functionality. Or more precisely, you buy a license to that functionality. The company owns all the code, and it's their job to worry about that so you get the value of your license to that functionality.

Upgrade charges are understood as covering the cost of maintenance and further R&D. But in this case, the company has had SEVERE internal problems making the technology work...the fact the prototype was already done in 2004 and then had to be scrapped anyway...meaning we had four years of development just of a new platform to run a closed system...and yet they still couldn't get the thing to work on the industry standard DAW and they couldn't get all the plugins ported over...shows that the company isn't particularly adept.

GIVEN that fact, you don't ALIENATE the users who believed in your product enough to suffer along with you by viewing them as the source of most of your profit from the development. No, you take the view that your new tech will open up additional markets and your profit will come from growth, and you have to maintain your base of support by sacrificing some profit from them if really all you're doing is giving them the level of performance for their existing licenses one would expect in the current environment.

You want to ship a product that your base, and especially your early adopters, will embrace and be able to use immediately...and you want to make that as attractive as possible for those people to get in. You don't do that by threatening them if they don't!

All stick. Meagre carrot. Overpriced and underdelivered.

Botched launch. tutt
Old 29th August 2008
  #1490
Lives for gear
 
Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
doesnt have the Live Track mode as i see it
or they forgot to mention it because the Nevana SOLO shows it in the features
All the UAD-2's have it.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1491
Lives for gear
 
Eric Dahlberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by submodern View Post
Is there an ETA on the Moog plugin?
It's coming later in the year.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1492
Lives for gear
 
deuc647's Avatar
 

Live tracking mode? Can someone enlighten me?
Old 29th August 2008
  #1493
Lives for gear
 
danbronson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
I apologize for my flippant three word response. No disrespect was intended. It was just an honest, quick response. I was dumbfounded by your being dumbfounded. I saw your post and I just sighed. To me, your post was tantamount to saying "I want my miracles now and I want them cheap!"

I mean, $600? For all that power? You want people to pay just $600 to be granted access to countless simultaneous instances of stunning approximations of Fairchilds, Neve 33609s, Pultecs, Fatsos, Transient Designers, 1176s, Helios EQ's, Moog filters, LA3s, LA2s, Plate 140s, etc.?

$600? Really?

I do not share your sense of valuation here. I just see it from the opposite perspective. I'm like, f*ck, for less than $2k, you might have all the power you would ever realistically need in most real world mix applications. I mean, some 20-year-old is going to start a great little minimalist studio with just a modern Mac, a UAD QUAD card, some mics, pres, and converters and, pretty much, nothing else. And if that person is truly gifted, they're going to blow us all away with what they can do. Think back just one decade (let alone two) and realize how far we've come. Try timetravelling and telling someone in 1998 what the UAD2 can do and that you feel it is overpriced because it's not $600. $600 in 2008 dollars...

Speculative comparisons to hypothetical Native options are just specious to me. We live in a world where rank data theft is common place. Native was never an option for UA. So let's lay that aside.

I would say that we're now hitting a plateau of what computers can do with audio. I have a Mac Pro at my studio that has just stupid, stupid amounts of processing power. Along with a Apogee Symphony AD16x/DA16x system that sounds just incredible, we can run 24/96kHz multi-track mixes with endless tracks and complex routing, plugins, etc. I feel like we are underachievers just for using it for music. I feel like we should be, y'know, making Pixar movies or something. Or solving global warming. Or cloning Gandhi.

To use these modern hyper-powered computers as a kind of benchmark for valuation of UAD2 is just... well, it's missing the point.

I think you are getting a little spoiled by the blinding speed of the advancement of technology and taking some amazing wonders of the modern age for granted. The UAD-1 was a mind-boggling breakthrough in sound quality and empowered a whole generation of hobbyist-level engineers who would not otherwise have access to professional studio equipment.

I am still a lover of high end analog outboard equipment [latest romance is with this incredible thing], but I gotta admit that some of the UAD stuff dazzles me in terms of its value and utility. I mean, I don't even want to tally up the total value of the gear in my studio. I'm in my mid 30s, and all I can feel right now is envy for the young kid who can now spend less than $10k and, if he/she is good, make a masterpiece.

I think you want the bar to keep moving in the consumers direction and the consumer's direction only. But why shouldn't UA charge a premium for their innovation? They are a corporation. They want to make money. Their pricepoint is considered with respect to demand. That's how it works. They're not sitting there thinking "Well, when you consider what today's computers can do..."

In my opinion --- and I know this will be a controversial statement on Gearslutz --- we truly have hit a moment in audio recording history when skill and talent and experience will be the only determiner of outcome. Gear is mattering less and less each day. Skill is mattering more.

With a UAD2 Quad and a Mac Pro, you could have something like a virtual Blackbird Studios. (My apologies to Blackbird and all other studios of this caliber. I'm just making an argument here...)

Revel in the power, pursue your dreams, make great music. Do anything but complain.

We're all lucky UA didn't charge twice as much. 'Cause they could have and it still would have sold a zillion units.

- c
This should be made into it's own thread, locked and stickied.

I will add that I would gladly pay $2000 for the something I couldn't tell apart sonically from a 128 channel Neve console, especially considering all the other great plugins it's capable of running!
Old 29th August 2008
  #1494
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuss88 View Post
looks like Universal Audio is poking fun at all them Mac and ProTools snobs
Honestly, get over your anti-Mac/PT fetish, man. UA supports Mac and Pro Tools, version 5.0 works fine with both, it's just the UAD-2 that still has bugs to work out, and it's not just regarding RTAS. There are at least half a dozen plugs that haven't even been ported over to UAD-2 yet for any platform, so I guess they're making fun of all users, right? Get over yourself.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1495
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
Live tracking mode? Can someone enlighten me?
+1

I don't know how they are going to do this given that the DAW is in charge and when the DAW goes off-chip onto the PCI bus you have a buffer that's going to be hard to get around.

This will probably never work in Pro Tools, as the only thing I imagine they are doing is some foo with CoreAudio where they go directly out to the card. Pro Tools has DAE which I doubt digi would allow to be hacked.

The only way they could get this to work really well without also being in charge of the i/o or building their own entire audio engine for each host somehow would be to have the plugins run native on the CPU in that mode. (!)

(And that's quite possibly why this mode loads the CPU more!!!)

If they do some hack to make this work on the PCI bus you can be fairly certain that it will break with each major revision to the motherboard architecture...and it will take the company months to support it e.g. when Apple ships new Mac Pro's.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1496
Gear Head
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
Live tracking mode? Can someone enlighten me?

Q: How does the new LiveTrack™ feature work?

A: The LiveTrack mode reduces latency on an active UAD-2 plug-in to the lowest possible amount. This feature is highly useful for monitoring processed audio when recording live performances. In LiveTrack Mode, UAD-2 signal data is transferred and processed “immediately” instead of being buffered, resulting in reduced latency.

NOTE: When LiveTrack is active, host CPU loading increases. LiveTrack does not reduce the latency of your Audio Interface. There are some caveats in some hosts. See the UAD compatibility page for more details.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1497
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Honestly, get over your anti-Mac/PT fetish, man. UA supports Mac and Pro Tools, version 5.0 works fine with both, it's just the UAD-2 that still has bugs to work out, and it's not just regarding RTAS. There are at least half a dozen plugs that haven't even been ported over to UAD-2 yet for any platform, so I guess they're making fun of all users, right? Get over yourself.

OK OK its just everything seems to cost about twice as much for Mac and for ProTools and there are often compatibility issues, thats what make these companies suspicious for me. I work in the music retail industry, can't say where, been looking at prices and policies for years and these two stick out big time. But thats just my opinion. Sorry man, didnt want to hurt your feelings.

Now lets get back to discussing the UAD2.
Old 29th August 2008
  #1498
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuss88 View Post
wuss88
Gear Head

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 42 Quote:Originally Posted by zboy2854
Honestly, get over your anti-Mac/PT fetish, man. UA supports Mac and Pro Tools, version 5.0 works fine with both, it's just the UAD-2 that still has bugs to work out, and it's not just regarding RTAS. There are at least half a dozen plugs that haven't even been ported over to UAD-2 yet for any platform, so I guess they're making fun of all users, right? Get over yourself.


OK OK its just everything seems to cost about twice as much for Mac and for ProTools and there are often compatibility issues, thats what make these companies suspicious for me. I work in the music retail industry, can't say where, been looking at prices and policies for years and these two stick out big time. But thats just my opinion. Sorry man, didnt want to hurt your feelings.

Now lets get back to discussing the UAD2.
__________________
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musician / gear owner
heh
Old 29th August 2008
  #1499
Gear Head
 

I was thinking of writing Tanzania instead of Luxembourg at first... of course Im NOT located in Luxembourg. dfegad
Old 29th August 2008
  #1500
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuss88 View Post
I was thinking of writing Tanzania instead of Luxembourg at first... of course Im NOT located in Luxembourg. dfegad
I join Tanzanians and Luxembourgers in a hearty fuuck
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