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UAD2 is a PCIE card Dynamics Plugins
Old 5th January 2008
  #121
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Someone at the Cakewalk forum wondered about a trade-in program. I have too, and UA here's my idea (I know it would be a colossal task but I can dream!)

-Buyers of the new, mega-fast UAD cards get discounts for turning in old card

- UA Tests each card, repackages them in some kind of 4-unit chassis and could resell them as a low-cost alternative but with the power of 4 old cards.

-everyone wins!
Old 5th January 2008
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukejs View Post
This is how it should be ! I think these companies that make dsp cards, or firewire devices should go as high tech as possible , with a kick a$$ dsp card, that will provide as many instances as possible, and NOT be in the business of trying to sell as many hardware units as possible.... Since a radically more powerfull card would provide the posibility of using more plugins... people will buy more PLUGS !!! I'd like to buy the Neve 33609 plug...but..I don't have enough dsp power.... if I had a super duper card.... I'd have already bought all the NEVE stuff already ! If you think about it, it would be easier for them to be in the plug in business..... and sell less cards..... Imagine.... one PCIe card for ALL your plugin requirements..... It doesn't raise their costs by selling more plugins.... but it does by selling more hardware ! Even if it costs $ 1800, I WANT 3000 INSTANCES RIGHT NOW !!! heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by superjc View Post
Someone at the Cakewalk forum wondered about a trade-in program. I have too, and UA here's my idea (I know it would be a colossal task but I can dream!)

-Buyers of the new, mega-fast UAD cards get discounts for turning in old card

- UA Tests each card, repackages them in some kind of 4-unit chassis and could resell them as a low-cost alternative but with the power of 4 old cards.

-everyone wins!
Old 5th January 2008
  #123
Jax
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Does it strike anyone else about how much people are willing to spin out over a rumor??

While it would be cool if an upgraded UAD device was coming, even with all the speculation, at 100 posts and 6,000+ views, this whole thread is still no more than hearsay.

If I'm wrong, point me to a post confirming that a "UAD2" is actually coming. The pdf doesn't count. That's where the rumor came from.
Old 5th January 2008
  #124
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Would any computer programmers like to get with massey and a good video card and create a zero latency plug in card? I would love to see this happen!!!!!!!!
Old 5th January 2008
  #125
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It's simple. If UAD do not come out with anything decent - the world will still keep turning and other plugin choices will still be available.

Either they will get it 'right' or they will not, their updated, card or whatever the heck it my belatedly be, will either perform to standard what a lot of us want or it will fall short.

I cannot really imagine them messing up the next developmental stage of one of their flagship products. Let us wait (some more!) and see.
Old 6th January 2008
  #126
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Funny, I'm seeing no references to "Fatso" or UAD2 or UAD-2 or UAD in the .pdf file referenced at the beginning of this thread that started it all, I guess they revised and re-posted it.

In any case, interesting thread, and yeah, of course it would be great if more instances of the plug-ins could be run (duh).....thanks for all the info

I wonder if that's why I paid less than I expected for a UAD-1 Flexi PAK about two hours ago at my local music dealer here in D.C. (my second card, and at least it doesn't hurt my health as much as crack did (joke although I have done my share of various damage))
Old 6th January 2008
  #127
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[QUOTE=Jax;1740073]Does it strike anyone else about how much people are willing to spin out over a rumor??
QUOTE]

Thats true. What it really means to UAD is that their customers are willing and ready to purchase a new card if it is a substantial upgrade. I don't need any more plugs but I'll take more power. I dont need more eqs, compressors etc. Give me a new freaking card.
Old 6th January 2008
  #128
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
What it really means to UAD is that their customers are willing and ready to purchase a new card if it is a substantial upgrade.
What it means is that UA has a lot of power and customer draw and is in a position to make a metric ton of profit because of the intense, bordering-on-rabid interest in this product.

If they are smart, they'll charge as much as they can get away with.

Capitalism. Your dollars at work today.

- c
Old 6th January 2008
  #129
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Originally Posted by peeder
All firewire or USB2 has to do is stream the audio back and forth...the processing of the signal is all done on-card and then the audio is streamed back, just like any other hardware accelerator.

And the recoding wouldn't be THAT time-consuming. It wouldn't be a snap, OK, but it wouldn't be nearly as hard as writing new plugins.
From Joe Bryan on WHY THERE WILL BE NO FIREWIRE UAD CARD:

The fastest Firewire audio devices provide 32 channels of I/O (64 out, 32 in). That's it. The UAD-1 and UAD-1e can process up to 254 channels of I/O (254 out and 254 in), and you can have up to four cards in a system. That's a lot of data. Even if each card is only processing 64 channels (64 mono plugs or 32 stereo plugs), that would require eight times the bandwidth that can be provided by the current Firewire hardware for the current generation of the UAD-1! Put simply, Firewire just isn't fast enough and isn't reliable enough. PCIe does all this while lowering system loading and latency, and improving reliability and signal integrity (fewer glitches).


WELL SOUNDS LIKE UAD WILL GIVE YOU 2 UAD1 IN A NEW BUNDLE !

FOR THE NEXT 1 YEAR THEY CAN SURVIVE THEN.



AFTER THAT

they have your money and sitting on the cayman islands too laugh over

customers how still support them for od technology and discurs esoteric

commings how never will be reality,sorry


but since when a new card in planning !!!

i forget.


BUT I LOVE TOO BE SURPRISED LIKE A KID WITH A NEW GAME

IF THEY CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN I MIGHT MOVE FROM DIGIDESIGN HD







BUT COM MON SHOW IN THE FACE OF REALETY

ITS UAD JUST THE WAY TOO SALE THE UNIVERSAL AUDIO ANALOG UNITS

LIKE TUBE TECH SALE A CL1B SOFT TOO LATELY BUY THE HARDWARE.



AND ONE UAD INSTANCE OF A STEREO NEVE IS NOT BETTER AS

SOME TODAY CLONES ON EBAY FOR 800 US.
Old 6th January 2008
  #130
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Animus's Avatar
 

huh?
Old 6th January 2008
  #131
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
huh?
+1
Old 6th January 2008
  #132
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peeder's Avatar
 

Hey I came up with a workaround for UAD on Firewire.

We can do 64 ins and outs on Fw400 as Duende displays. The problem is that UAD is made up of tons of little plugins that each receive and send audio independently. Each one uses up an i/o pair and incurs processing delay.

So what they could do is make a combinator plugin for UAD. This would allow you to create entire processing chains...say 1176 into LA2A into 1081 into Plate 140...and have them appear as a single plugin in the DAW. It would be a plugin container like NI KORE or something. It would also help setting up presets. Reason added the combinator tech in 3.0 and that was immensely popular. It would also help situations like PTLE where you only have 5 insert points to work with on a track.

Then the routing between them would be done on-chip on the UAD processor. You wouldn't be able to insert non-UAD plugins inside a combinator, but you could always have two UAD combinators on a single track with host-based plugins between them if you had to.

This would allow you to use the full processing power of UAD on 64 channels per firewire 400 bus. If firewire scales linearly, that would be 128 channels per firewire 800 bus. Firewire cards are cheap, and who knows, there could even be demand for a card that offers 2 or 4 busses on a single card to expand total bandwidth.

Anyway, when there's a will, there's a way...
Old 6th January 2008
  #133
Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
What it means is that UA has a lot of power and customer draw and is in a position to make a metric ton of profit because of the intense, bordering-on-rabid interest in this product.

If they are smart, they'll charge as much as they can get away with.

Capitalism. Your dollars at work today.

- c
Hey SS 'c',

If you don't mind, when you're quoting me, don't put someone else's words in with what I said. Separate quotes next time.

Thanks...
Old 7th January 2008
  #134
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Whenever Universal Audio comes out with a new card I would be surprised if they don't offer the new cards to existing customers for around dealer cost or maybe as low as 5-10% over manufacturing costs.

When TC Electronics came out with the Powercore PCI Mk2 they offered existing customers the ability to buy the card for ~$500. That's when they were selling for $1,200 so there's obviously good margin even at introduction.

UA has shown to be very rewarding to existing customers in the past so I expect no less from them in the future.
Old 7th January 2008
  #135
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
Hey I came up with a workaround for UAD on Firewire.

We can do 64 ins and outs on Fw400 as Duende displays. The problem is that UAD is made up of tons of little plugins that each receive and send audio independently. Each one uses up an i/o pair and incurs processing delay.

So what they could do is make a combinator plugin for UAD. This would allow you to create entire processing chains...say 1176 into LA2A into 1081 into Plate 140...and have them appear as a single plugin in the DAW. It would be a plugin container like NI KORE or something. It would also help setting up presets. Reason added the combinator tech in 3.0 and that was immensely popular. It would also help situations like PTLE where you only have 5 insert points to work with on a track.

Then the routing between them would be done on-chip on the UAD processor. You wouldn't be able to insert non-UAD plugins inside a combinator, but you could always have two UAD combinators on a single track with host-based plugins between them if you had to.

This would allow you to use the full processing power of UAD on 64 channels per firewire 400 bus. If firewire scales linearly, that would be 128 channels per firewire 800 bus. Firewire cards are cheap, and who knows, there could even be demand for a card that offers 2 or 4 busses on a single card to expand total bandwidth.

Anyway, when there's a will, there's a way...
yeah but remember problems #2 and #3 with FW my freind
#2 conflicts with other units (ie interfaces ala Duendo)
#3 lack f expansion because of limited bandwidth.

Now the the interesting thing is all the manufactures that are signing on with UA even with the bad vibe of no new card !!!!!!

Yeah Peeder before you say it higher pay out than the others ? Maybe but as far as cost per plug UA is on the inexpensive side plus with all the deals I doubt its the case!

The fact is these guys are good at what they do with the card!

I hope Gill is covering his butt and lyin to us all under threats of death or worse, but I'm not holding my breth!
Old 7th January 2008
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapfreak View Post
Whenever Universal Audio comes out with a new card I would be surprised if they don't offer the new cards to existing customers for around dealer cost or maybe as low as 5-10% over manufacturing costs.

When TC Electronics came out with the Powercore PCI Mk2 they offered existing customers the ability to buy the card for ~$500. That's when they were selling for $1,200 so there's obviously good margin even at introduction.

UA has shown to be very rewarding to existing customers in the past so I expect no less from them in the future.
I would expect some kind of upgrade path, I don't know about dealer cost though. Although right now a UAD-1 card is like buying a new printer (cheap printer / make money on ink). You buy the card really cheap, but I keep spending money on their addictive plugins (reasonably priced and high quality)
Old 7th January 2008
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I think "Derressor" is a play on Dave Derr, the creator of the Distressor. And I think that's going to be the name of their 500-series Distressor version.

Maybe they'll have a 500-series EQ called the "Derr-E-air"?

And yes you can all but bank on them having Distressor and LilFreq UAD plugins.
This could become a thread of its own. With the LilFreq requiring so many knobs I think you'll only see a band or two per module.

Dul-Derr-um Freq (lows)
Derr-Essence Freq (is that close enough to presence?)
The Derr-E-Air Freq (highs, despite implying lows)
Old 7th January 2008
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
From Joe Bryan on WHY THERE WILL BE NO FIREWIRE UAD CARD:

The fastest Firewire audio devices provide 32 channels of I/O (64 out, 32 in). That's it. The UAD-1 and UAD-1e can process up to 254 channels of I/O (254 out and 254 in), and you can have up to four cards in a system. That's a lot of data.
Funny you should quote that straw man.

When the card supports only one instance of a plugin, the number of channels isn't the bottleneck. Besides which, are there any plugs ever released for UAD-1 that the card can support 32 instances of?

We won't even mention that the quote surely precedes FW800, and that I can get many, many FW800 ports installed on my box.
Old 8th January 2008
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WidgetNinja View Post
We won't even mention that the quote surely precedes FW800, and that I can get many, many FW800 ports installed on my box.
Obviously you didn't follow my link above. But what does Joel Bryan know about the UAD and DSP requirements for UA plugs anyway, right?
Old 8th January 2008
  #140
Gear Maniac
 

Has anyone thought that the reason UAD gets big name companies to sign on is because of the limited instances of plugins? This forces us to use the UAD-1 like a rack of outboard gear, unlike how we typically are using plugins. I feel like neve, ua, spl...etc. are using the plugins as a way to get us familiar with their gear so we eventually buy the actual hardware. Because I can only run one instance of a 33609, I wouldn't be losing the convenience of running multiple instances if I purchased the hardware version.

Food for thought...
Old 8th January 2008
  #141
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SoundEng1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
+1
+2
Old 8th January 2008
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundEng1 View Post
+2
+3

very big personal problems with this guy also in german-language. must be drunk all the time or on weed...

back to topic:

there will be big news at namm. they could easily make a pcie-based uad2 with 6-times power on one card.

and cause they don´t have new promotions, i bet there´s something.

i had big problems with poco-fw and duende when there´s another fw-unit connected. so i wouldn´t be happy with a fw-solution.

pci-e has enough bandwith and i think it´s the way to go.
Old 8th January 2008
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
Obviously you didn't follow my link above. But what does Joel Bryan know about the UAD and DSP requirements for UA plugs anyway, right?
I didn't need to. He's been propping up the same straw man since before FW800

DSP power has ZERO, ZERO to do with DSP requirements for plugs... until the number crunching exceeds the bandwidth, which UA has never acheived. And I mean they have never even come close to achieving (which isn't a slight on their actual skill, since it is dependent on the DSP's, not UA.). I simply wrote my response as a software developer, hoping to point out to software users that this whole bandwidth thing is absolutley, as sure as gravity, not a practical issue for UA. Whatever points he makes, whatever true facts he states, it is given under the pretense that somehow, in some mythical world, there is extra power in those DSP cards, just waiting idle. The pretense is falsified under their own plugins.

Right now, there is plenty of bandwidth, but not enough power to use it. They wouln't even overflow circa '97 USB 1.0 with their card running the Neve plugs. And how many USB 1.0 ports can your system accomodate without choking? I'm not sure my chassis has enough accessible surface area to do it without external multipliers.

Here's a sports equivalent: "You'll never see me lifting weights, because my bones can crush under high pressure. My muscles already have more than enough theoretical power if I could just make them squeeze harder with my mind."

A reel world equivalent: We won't use digital, only 2 inch "analog tape". Theoretically, we could pack narrower and narrower tracks, so the tape's track count is theoretically aproaching infinite, even at 2". Digital is limited by CPU's and memory bandwidth.
Old 8th January 2008
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddierodriguez View Post
+3

very big personal problems with this guy also in german-language. must be drunk all the time or on weed...

back to topic:

there will be big news at namm. they could easily make a pcie-based uad2 with 6-times power on one card.

and cause they don´t have new promotions, i bet there´s something.

i had big problems with poco-fw and duende when there´s another fw-unit connected. so i wouldn´t be happy with a fw-solution.

pci-e has enough bandwith and i think it´s the way to go.
Yeah, I just bought a POCO, but can't use it alongside my Duet. I only have 1 FF-400 bus on my Mac-Book Pro so I'm considering selling it.. If there is a UAD-2 and it's PCI, I'll sell my laptop and invest in a Mac Pro.
That's how commited I am to getting their plugs.. I refuse to support the UAD-1 system though..
Old 8th January 2008
  #145
OMU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnypowell View Post
Yeah, I just bought a POCO, but can't use it alongside my Duet. I only have 1 FF-400 bus on my Mac-Book Pro so I'm considering selling it.. If there is a UAD-2 and it's PCI, I'll sell my laptop and invest in a Mac Pro.
That's how commited I am to getting their plugs.. I refuse to support the UAD-1 system though..
Can't you just use a fw800 to fw400 cable to power the Duet from the 800 bus?
Old 8th January 2008
  #146
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emgbiotch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpark View Post

WELL SOUNDS LIKE UAD WILL GIVE YOU 2 UAD1 IN A NEW BUNDLE !

FOR THE NEXT 1 YEAR THEY CAN SURVIVE THEN.



AFTER THAT

they have your money and sitting on the cayman islands too laugh over

customers how still support them for od technology and discurs esoteric

commings how never will be reality,sorry


but since when a new card in planning !!!

i forget.


BUT I LOVE TOO BE SURPRISED LIKE A KID WITH A NEW GAME

IF THEY CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN I MIGHT MOVE FROM DIGIDESIGN HD







BUT COM MON SHOW IN THE FACE OF REALETY

ITS UAD JUST THE WAY TOO SALE THE UNIVERSAL AUDIO ANALOG UNITS

LIKE TUBE TECH SALE A CL1B SOFT TOO LATELY BUY THE HARDWARE.



AND ONE UAD INSTANCE OF A STEREO NEVE IS NOT BETTER AS

SOME TODAY CLONES ON EBAY FOR 800 US.
uhh...exactly!
Old 8th January 2008
  #147
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WeekendWanker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WidgetNinja View Post
I didn't need to. He's been propping up the same straw man since before FW800

DSP power has ZERO, ZERO to do with DSP requirements for plugs... until the number crunching exceeds the bandwidth, which UA has never acheived. And I mean they have never even come close to achieving (which isn't a slight on their actual skill, since it is dependent on the DSP's, not UA.). I simply wrote my response as a software developer, hoping to point out to software users that this whole bandwidth thing is absolutley, as sure as gravity, not a practical issue for UA. Whatever points he makes, whatever true facts he states, it is given under the pretense that somehow, in some mythical world, there is extra power in those DSP cards, just waiting idle. The pretense is falsified under their own plugins.

Right now, there is plenty of bandwidth, but not enough power to use it. They wouln't even overflow circa '97 USB 1.0 with their card running the Neve plugs. And how many USB 1.0 ports can your system accomodate without choking? I'm not sure my chassis has enough accessible surface area to do it without external multipliers.

Here's a sports equivalent: "You'll never see me lifting weights, because my bones can crush under high pressure. My muscles already have more than enough theoretical power if I could just make them squeeze harder with my mind."

A reel world equivalent: We won't use digital, only 2 inch "analog tape". Theoretically, we could pack narrower and narrower tracks, so the tape's track count is theoretically aproaching infinite, even at 2". Digital is limited by CPU's and memory bandwidth.
Wow, such passion! If only it made sense :-) With a four card UAD-1 system you can run 112 1176SE or Cambridge EQs so that already exceeds the channel count available from firewire--assuming it's 64 as others have stated. But that's with the current cards and what we're talking about, and what I hope Joel Brian is talking about, is a new 4x or more card which could run many more instances. Wouldn't the channel count then start to become more important?
Old 8th January 2008
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend****** View Post
Wow, such passion! If only it made sense :-) With a four card UAD-1 system you can run 112 1176SE or Cambridge EQs so that already exceeds the channel count available from firewire
Note I used Neve, which four cards would get you how many... and per card.
Personally, I'm doubting anyone has ever run that many cambridges, even with 4 cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend****** View Post
But that's with the current cards and what we're talking about, and what I hope Joel Brian is talking about, is a new 4x or more card which could run many more instances. Wouldn't the channel count then start to become more important?
Again, only if the DSP chip is sitting there doing nothing. Nobody in the real world has encountered such a scenario thus far. It's not a balance of factors in this case. It either is a factor or not. Note that 64 channels doesn't mean 64 plugins, but discrete channels.

Can anyone say they have had 64 discrete channels at mixdown and gone "Gee, what about my 65th channel? I still have tons of processor power, why can't I add one more channel of UA fx?" Anyone?

On the other hand, how many people's two and four card systems broke either when adding a PoCo or when upgrading so at a minimum they needed a megabuck PCI chassis? Raise your hands people, how many of you would have rather paid for an external box that ate either MADI, firewire, or ethernet at that point and not deal with PC issues again? And how many said "screw this, I'm selling these!", devaluing the platform for UA? Obviously, not making such a device lost them tons of business. Did it exceed the cost of development, since UA never designed the first card? Only UA has any idea, but I'll bet the selling of rights for that card changing hands and the timing of which was more influential than hypothetical bandwidth issues that nobody had ever complained about.

Even if the card is 4x as powerful... well then we're up to a whopping 8 channels of the Neve plugs. Four cards would allow me to basically treat 3 stereo groups and have a few miscellaneous plugins. Nice, but not compelling for me.

Now, if we're talking 32x-64x the power, and we can get it for 1K, and the card also has an external ethernet or MADI port as an option so we can connect to it for a long time, then we have something exciting! Otherwise, I'll stay with my single lonely card to slowly freeze tracks with.

You have to realize this isn't TC. If I buy another UA card, I "know" from experience that it better still taste good in 7 more years. I don't want one that runs a single stereo of the new and improved Wunder channel in 2013. 4x the UAD1 power with the cost of external chassis to use more than one card won't sell me at all. Believe me, whatever the improvement, the models will grow in complexity.

BTW, I am passionate because I honestly love my UA plugs, but it is like watching Apple flounder for so long. The inability to meet users' needs, or stay within half a decade of ambient technological progress, as a software developer, just makes me want to get all Navy Seal on UA HQ, steal the the code, leaving an inferno using discarded user requests for kindling, and find people to help do the platform justice.
Old 9th January 2008
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WidgetNinja View Post
BTW, I am passionate because I honestly love my UA plugs, but it is like watching Apple flounder for so long. The inability to meet users' needs, or stay within half a decade of ambient technological progress, as a software developer, just makes me want to get all Navy Seal on UA HQ, steal the the code, leaving an inferno using discarded user requests for kindling, and find people to help do the platform justice.
heh
Old 9th January 2008
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WidgetNinja View Post
BTW, I am passionate because I honestly love my UA plugs, but it is like watching Apple flounder for so long. The inability to meet users' needs, or stay within half a decade of ambient technological progress, as a software developer, just makes me want to get all Navy Seal on UA HQ, steal the the code, leaving an inferno using discarded user requests for kindling, and find people to help do the platform justice.
Best quote EVER!!!!
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