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UAD2 is a PCIE card Dynamics Plugins
Old 29th July 2008
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Well in that case why use any plugins at all? you should just sell all your cards, otherwise you are just masterbating with plugins. Get your sound with mics and the room. You don't need the UAD or any hardware at all. You don't need high quality expensive hardware/software. Use Behringer.
Right ... and because this thread is going in circles, I can just recycle my reply from the last time someone made a dumb response along these lines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
My whole point is that we are no longer using Ataris, we are many orders of magnitude away from that at this point. We have processing capacity totally undreamt-of even ten years ago, let alone 20 or 50 years ago. Something like BionicFX would make a very tiny difference in comparison — and you are still in a headspace (and possibly a skill level) where you would max out all your DSP anyway.
...
You probably have more raw DSP capacity than most PTHD users, since PT utiilizes native DSP so much less efficiently — so you can stop using that for an excuse. You have a top-level DSP capacity, right now, even compared to the "big pros."
...
Old 29th July 2008
  #602
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Nolet's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
It won't be ilok. ilok has been cracked wide open. Syncrosoft seems to be the only safe dongle systems nowadays.

Syncrosoft has also been cracked. If I'm right, there is a Cubase SX 3 version somewhere on bittorrent with a little program that emulates the Syncrosoft dongle. Reliable sources tell me it works perfectly. To be clear, I have a licensed Cubase copy. Piracy is bad!

Also, I have been a UAD-1 user for quite some years now and seem to never really max out my one card. Weird...
Old 29th July 2008
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolet View Post
Syncrosoft has also been cracked. If I'm right, there is a Cubase SX 3 version somewhere on bittorrent with a little program that emulates the Syncrosoft dongle. Reliable sources tell me it works perfectly. To be clear, I have a licensed Cubase copy. Piracy is bad!

Also, I have been a UAD-1 user for quite some years now and seem to never really max out my one card. Weird...

But they haven't cracked anything since, due to the herculean nature of the task. Apparently the Cubase 3 krack wasn't 100 percent since a saved project could not be read in a legit copy. What pro would want to use something like that?

That's cool you don't max out one card. Maybe you should pull out your Pentium 1 pc or your Mac PowerPC 604 and sell your modern computer too. Sounds like you don't need it either and the ancient computers work just as well. ;-)
Old 29th July 2008
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Right ... and because this thread is going in circles, I can just recycle my reply from the last time someone made a dumb response along these lines ...
You miss the point we are trying to make. It's not about raw processing power. It's about flaws in the current system. Load balancing and future compatibility. How times do we have to say that? I have 4 cards and can only effectively use three. It has nothing to do with what Protools can or can't do.
Old 29th July 2008
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
...
You're repeating yourself.

A sure sign of an alcoholic.
Old 29th July 2008
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
That's cool you don't max out one card. Maybe you should pull out your Pentium 1 pc or your Mac PowerPC 604 and sell your modern computer too. Sounds like you don't need it either and the ancient computers work just as well. ;-)
I'm afraid NI Kontakt will eat that P1 for breakfast...but maybe I'll dig up my old Gravis soundcard or AWE32? (The AWE32 had onboard reverb and chorus! OMFG!!1!).

Boot up DOS and start using Screamtracker again.

Oh, the memories...

Old 29th July 2008
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
You miss the point we are trying to make. It's not about raw processing power. It's about flaws in the current system. Load balancing and future compatibility. How times do we have to say that? I have 4 cards and can only effectively use three. It has nothing to do with what Protools can or can't do.
I haven't missed that point, it's just not the point I was addressing. And in your first response to me, you didn't address that either. Let's not scrap with each other when we may not even disagree.

I believe that UA has a real problem in terms of future compatibility, and there is a lot of reason to believe that they simply don't have the engineering capacity in-house to design a successful successor to UAD-1 and bring it to market. The reasons to think this are: (1) they have not released any digital or computer-related hardware product in the better part of a decade, and (2) they desperately need to be refreshing this product — not because we need the extra DSP, but simply to keep a viable, competitive product in the marketplace — and yet they have not gotten it done.

Since the simplest explanation is the likeliest explanation, all else being equal, I believe they simply don't know how to get this accomplished.

JSL
Old 29th July 2008
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I haven't missed that point, it's just not the point I was addressing. And in your first response to me, you didn't address that either. Let's not scrap with each other when we may not even disagree.

I believe that UA has a real problem in terms of future compatibility, and there is a lot of reason to believe that they simply don't have the engineering capacity in-house to design a successful successor to UAD-1 and bring it to market. The reasons to think this are: (1) they have not released any digital or computer-related hardware product in the better part of a decade, and (2) they desperately need to be refreshing this product — not because we need the extra DSP, but simply to keep a viable, competitive product in the marketplace — and yet they have not gotten it done.

Since the simplest explanation is the likeliest explanation, all else being equal, I believe they simply don't know how to get this accomplished.

JSL
This is perhaps the smartest thing that you have said in this thread..

In fact. It is the the most accurate point that anyone has said in this thread..

Old 29th July 2008
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
This is perhaps the smartest thing that you have said in this thread..

In fact. It is the the most accurate point that anyone has said in this thread..

Except for the observation that it's _still_ difficult for retailers to keep UAD-1's in stock....

(I sold a UAD-1 on GS a couple months ago for $50 under retail in 5 minutes total. For comparison, I had to go down to $895 for a Duende "classic" and bump the ad for a week...)
Old 29th July 2008
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
Except for the observation that it's _still_ difficult for retailers to keep UAD-1's in stock....
What has that got to do with the quoted post??

This just means that they have UAD have a huge stock pile of old cards/processors.. It doesnt mean that they have the ability/knowlege/resources to develop a new card.
Old 29th July 2008
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
What has that got to do with the quoted post??

This just means that they have UAD have a huge stock pile of old cards/processors.. It doesnt mean that they have the ability/knowlege/resources to develop a new card.
Quote:
(2) they desperately need to be refreshing this product — not because we need the extra DSP, but simply to keep a viable, competitive product in the marketplace — and yet they have not gotten it done.
They don't have a business case if the current product is selling like hotcakes anyway.
Old 29th July 2008
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
They don't have a business case if the current product is selling like hotcakes anyway.
Well why are they producing products like this?

Universal Audio | Analog Products | 1176AE | Overview
Old 29th July 2008
  #613
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peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
Well why are they producing products like this?

Universal Audio | Analog Products | 1176AE | Overview
If the 1176LN were selling like the UAD-1, maybe they wouldn't see a need to do something cool like their new mashup of the 1176LN, 176, and Blue Stripe.

Analog hardware pieces aren't platforms which require recoding everything else to work on or with them. You only want to put out a platform every so often. Viz. Digi TDM...
Old 30th July 2008
  #614
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solidstate's Avatar
 

so..you guys think that ua doesn't have
the resources/skills to make the uad
2? Maybe they should go native..?
Old 30th July 2008
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
so..you guys think that ua doesn't have
the resources/skills to make the uad
2? Maybe they should go native..?
One guy thinks that. In fact that's the only person I have ever heard even suggest it. I don't think that in any way, shape, or form.
Old 30th July 2008
  #616
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feck's Avatar
550 posts about something that doesn't exist. Crazy.
Old 30th July 2008
  #617
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solidstate's Avatar
 

and + 50,000 people are watching this thread:-) maybe ua should take this uad2 thing more seriously..?
Old 30th July 2008
  #618
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I am willing to bet good money (a nickel!) it does exist right now. SHould be an announcement in a couple of months I imagine.
Old 30th July 2008
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
I am willing to bet good money (a nickel!) it does exist right now. SHould be an announcement in a couple of months I imagine.
If nothing by the next AES, I'll be heading over to Waves to upgrade from SSL to the Studio Classics. (I'm really hoping for UAD2.) MWBR!
Old 30th July 2008
  #620
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Has anyone emailed this link to UAD?

Or do you think they are always aware of discussions in Gearslutz?

Old 30th July 2008
  #621
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
I am willing to bet good money (a nickel!) it does exist right now. SHould be an announcement in a couple of months I imagine.
Yes, but you could have posted that a year ago, two years ago, or three years ago. There is no evidence that it's any more likely to happen this year than it was last year or the year before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
They don't have a business case if the current product is selling like hotcakes anyway.
Well, that's not really true. I notice they come out with new iPods all the time.

Your point about brisk sales is a good one. Thing is, we don't really know that sales are brisk, and I am skeptical that they are. What we know is that the cards are scarce, but that seems more likely to be a supply-chain problem than a sales problem. It may well be that they're having trouble getting enough of certain parts to keep the cards in production in any real quantity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
Well why are they producing products like this?

Universal Audio | Analog Products | 1176AE | Overview
The one has nothing to do with another -- it's two different businesses. UA's analog products are sold and marketed to the semi-pro and enthusiast markets almost exclusively -- this is not to say that they aren't used by pros or good enough to be used by pros, but clearly they made a decision a few years ago to keep churning out new versions of old compressors because that's what gets the semi-pros and amateurs all hot and bothered (and that's also what keeps their major dealers happy). The release of this AE version, whose main unique feature is a blue stripe, is the most brazen expression of this strategy yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
One guy thinks that. In fact that's the only person I have ever heard even suggest it. I don't think that in any way, shape, or form.
I admit completely that I'm only speculating. I have no information.

Having said that, you haven't offered any reason to believe otherwise, and you haven't offered any other explanation for why there is no successor product, which from a sales/marketing point of view is way, way overdue.

Understand, I'm not saying the users need a UAD-2. I'm saying that UA needs one -- and yet they don't have one.

JSL
Old 30th July 2008
  #622
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ProducerBoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
...why there is no successor product, which from a sales/marketing point of view is way, way overdue.

Understand, I'm not saying the users need a UAD-2. I'm saying that UA needs one -- and yet they don't have one.

JSL
Very good point.
IMO, UA has done great work with their software, but in the age of 8 core machines that can crunch over 100 midi tracks, plugs, and verbs, there is just no sense in defending a piece of hardware that uses 20% of its resources for one verb (Plate), compressor (1176) or a 1073 plug, or 50% for a compressor (Neve), etc. Useable is not a defense in the tech world when the rest of the world is blowing by you.
UAD cannot share the same philosophy as their analog department.
"If it ain't broke..." (and it almost is) "...don't fix it." doesn't fly in the tech market.

There were plenty of people making records on G4s... why support dual quad core? Why upgrade a product when users can freeze tracks and reload plugs to balance the power consumption? Firstly, those workarounds are inexcusable now given current technology, secondly, because businesses dealing in tech have to keep on the cutting edge if their product in question is going to continue to be a sensible solution and the company is going to remain competitive in the tech marketplace.

The UAD-1 card just isn't a good investment from a tech/business perspective. It can certainly please the existing users or new users. UAD-1 has had an incredible run, but every product has a life cycle, and the UAD-1 card doesn't have much time left.

my 2¢
Old 30th July 2008
  #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
Very good point.
IMO, UA has done great work with their software, but in the age of 8 core machines that can crunch over 100 midi tracks, plugs, and verbs, there is just no sense in defending a piece of hardware that uses 20% of its resources for one verb (Plate), compressor (1176) or a 1073 plug, or 50% for a compressor (Neve), etc. Useable is not a defense in the tech world when the rest of the world is blowing by you.
UAD cannot share the same philosophy as their analog department.
"If it ain't broke..." (and it almost is) "...don't fix it." doesn't fly in the tech market.

There were plenty of people making records on G4s... why support dual quad core? Why upgrade a product when users can freeze tracks and reload plugs to balance the power consumption? Firstly, those workarounds are inexcusable now given current technology, secondly, because businesses dealing in tech have to keep on the cutting edge if their product in question is going to continue to be a sensible solution and the company is going to remain competitive in the tech marketplace.

The UAD-1 card just isn't a good investment from a tech/business perspective. It can certainly please the existing users or new users. UAD-1 has had an incredible run, but every product has a life cycle, and the UAD-1 card doesn't have much time left.

my 2¢
+1

I totally agree
Old 30th July 2008
  #624
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There's plenty of hints UA are working on a UAD2. THey have hinted at it several times themselves. Also, I wouldn't say sales are "brisk" on the UAD1. Wonder why they have reduced the costs on the cards recently? And they seem to always be having more frequent vouchers and coupons to try and get you to buy something.

I haven't spent my own money (all vouchers etc) on a UA plug in a long time and I won't until a new solution is presented to us.
Old 30th July 2008
  #625
Jam
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For me it's really simple.

I owned a UAD1, I think the plug-ins are great and compliment the native plug-ins I've got.

If UA release a faster card I'd buy it like a shot.

I will not buy the current card.

I've recently purchased a number of native plug-ins. It is possible that I'd have spent this money on the notional UAD2

I don't think this makes me a bad person or that my opinion is any less valid than someone who thinks the UAD1 is great.

James
Old 30th July 2008
  #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
Has anyone emailed this link to UAD?

Or do you think they are always aware of discussions in Gearslutz?

Yeah. They twisted the admins here to delete the first version of this thread when the "Fatso for UAD-2" announcement leaked into a NAMM program.

And I'm sure they love the publicity, even though it's bittersweet. Any press is good press.
Old 30th July 2008
  #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
Yeah. They twisted the admins here to delete the first version of this thread when the "Fatso for UAD-2" announcement leaked into a NAMM program.

And I'm sure they love the publicity, even though it's bittersweet. Any press is good press.
Ha.. Oh yeah.. I remember now.. This ALL started with the Fatso..

Anyway.. A LOT of good points in this thread. Im out.

Lets ALL wait and see.
Old 30th July 2008
  #628
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest they are developing on the SHARC platform and will introduce a new card that is 10 times more powerful than existing.

We can always hope...
Old 31st July 2008
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
IMO, UA has done great work with their software, but in the age of 8 core machines that can crunch over 100 midi tracks, plugs, and verbs, there is just no sense in defending a piece of hardware that uses 20% of its resources for one verb (Plate), compressor (1176) or a 1073 plug, or 50% for a compressor (Neve), etc. Useable is not a defense in the tech world when the rest of the world is blowing by you.
I actually disagree with this almost completely.

Aside from compatibility issues, the UAD-1 is still a totally viable production tool. It still sounds great, it's still "best of breed" as far as native plug-ins go. It is perhaps more appropriate to think of a UAD-1 purchase as a purchase of a bunch of fantastic plug-ins, rather than as a hardware processor. It really is a card-as-dongle situation.

Frankly, many of these arguments are basically the same as the old, stale anti-Pro Tools arguments. Sadly for UA, much of their customer base is extremely fond of that way of thinking.

Quote:
Firstly, those workarounds are inexcusable now given current technology, secondly, because businesses dealing in tech have to keep on the cutting edge if their product in question is going to continue to be a sensible solution and the company is going to remain competitive in the tech marketplace.
The workarounds are still justifiable if there is still a significant edge in overall quality and/or value, and many would say that there is. That's why we're even having this discussion, rather than just retiring UAD-1 to the dustbin of old digital audio technology.

But yeah ... the issue here isn't that the tools are for some reason not as good as they used to be ... it's that the market has changed, other companies have caught up and in some cases sprinted past. Forget desktops, think about how much faster laptops are than they were eight years ago — it wasn't really viable then to do "heavy" pro audio work on a laptop, and it certainly is now. That's a major shift in the market, and UA has only weakly responded to it.

But the really sad thing is, there have been multiple generations of improvement in DSP chips, and UA is not capitalizing on that at all. They could have come out with a truly dominant product by now, just by using DSP technology that is only as good as the competition and no better — because they still basically have the best plug-ins. All they need to do is have equivalent DSP capacity, and they'd automatically have the best product.

And yet they apparently can't do that.

JSL
Old 31st July 2008
  #630
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peeder's Avatar
 

Maybe they're aiming higher than just being the best plugin vendor.
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