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UAD2 is a PCIE card Dynamics Plugins
Old 7th July 2008
  #481
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andrewj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
Get a Liquid Mix if you're considering Duende because you need firewire and are on a budget. Liquid Mix has 40 compressor types and 20 EQs and can run one full compressor and one full EQ on each of 32 channels (and in either order). Duende has a Channel Strip thing that is totally lame in all senses...the EQ is tolerable, not great, but the compressor is worthless. The Duende Bus Comp is OK, not as good as the Liquid Mix versions of it, but you can't have EQ or anything else on that channel of processing if you use it.

UAD sounds a bit better than Liquid Mix but at a price...you need a Mac Pro to do large-scale work on it and at least 2 cards. UAD-2 will be out soon enough and I won't openly laugh at the haters when it does because they don't interest me.
At first I thought you were kidding, but you believe in the words you are saying! I think totally different and a lot of guys I know think the same. If you get the results you are after with your Liquid Mix you can be real happy, but to me Dunede does not sound one percent the way you say it sounds. And Dunede is not only good for techno!
Old 7th July 2008
  #482
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KBOY's Avatar
 

Wow. Some crazy words from people telling other people they are worthless for wanting or needing more dsp.

I'll say this. For me... I run nuendo, sometimes run external hardware. Sometimes all in the box. To be able to keep latencies as low as possible, keep my machine stable when clients are sitting there, and to be able to try any combo of plugs to get the desired sound. I want as much dsp as I can possibly afford.

Why? Because lower latencies with high track and plug count (including UAD/external) Keeps my meters snappy. Keeps my system usable all the time without even the slightest bit of worry of a freeze because The client or I had an idea . I don't have to tell the client to hold on for 20 minutes because I have to freeze 6 tracks in order to try such idea.

And I really don't care if you feel that back in the day they had to wait for the tape to rewind. Tell em to get some coffee or what ever. We live in the day an age of technology. People including kids can get what they want immediately if they have the money or proper means to do so. And if I can't give the client what they want immediately I'm not worthy of their dollar.

I currently run an older dual core 3.2 system with 2 PCI based UAD1 cards. I easily can get the system up to 90% on both the system and the cards. While up at 90% I cannot keep my buffers low.

For me from what I know about MY mixing. My next system would probably do it. I feel I would need a Quad core w 4 UAD's and I'd like to have a Duende. I think I would be sitting comfortable at that point.
Old 7th July 2008
  #483
Gear Addict
 
Electronique's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBOY View Post
Wow. Some crazy words from people telling other people they are worthless for wanting or needing more dsp.... etc etc
See jslevin.. Exactly what I was trying to say..

Old 7th July 2008
  #484
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I see you make techno. The thinness of the Duende and its gauzy graininess will help defeat some of the tubby muddy synth sounds you are mixing. So I'm not so surprised that you like it...but I don't consider electronica a useful genre to judge processing on. Since there is no frame of reference, anything goes...
looks like we have a maestro here...
man, I am a producer and I make music of every kind varying from pop to rock to rnb and yes, I make electronica for my delight...I'm not here to tell you how much experience in the music industry I may have because I want to keep a positive approach.
Concerning Liquid Mix vs Duende,you answered yourself.
Old 7th July 2008
  #485
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by arimaka View Post
We'll just have to wait and see.....
UAD has announced that there will not be a new card.
But I guess since the Waves JJP and V -Series pressure is getting higher....if they do not change it in the next two years I think they will lose customers which have been long time users.

If more companies come out with great native versions I am off UAD too.
The UAD stuff is having two sides of the coin.
Old 7th July 2008
  #486
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Electronique's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
UAD has announced that there will not be a new card.
Link - Or I call BS heresay mumbojumbo!!

tutt
Old 7th July 2008
  #487
Gear Nut
 
Hard2Hear's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
UAD has announced that there will not be a new card.
But I guess since the Waves JJP and V -Series pressure is getting higher....if they do not change it in the next two years I think they will lose customers which have been long time users.
lol, must be my imagination. If you only knew.
Old 7th July 2008
  #488
Gear Maniac
 

I don't understand why UA doesn't produce it's own version of a PCIe multi-slot extension system. The Magma systems seem absurdly over-priced. A UA product would at least provide an interim solution to the limitations of the UAD-1.
Old 7th July 2008
  #489
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otobianki74's Avatar
 

is there a link to this formal announcement?

thanks.

oto
Old 7th July 2008
  #490
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ProducerBoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
UAD has announced that there will not be a new card.
"That does it! Shenanigans! SHENANIGANS!
I'm declaring Shenanigans on you!"
Attached Thumbnails
UAD2 is a PCIE card-kenny-south-park.jpg  
Old 7th July 2008
  #491
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feck's Avatar
I have 2 pci-e UAD cards, and have never maxed them out. I use Sonalkis, Waves, Sonnox, PSP, and others alongside them - I don't really see using only one set of plugs for most projects. The UAD stuff sounds great, but not on everything. I would suggest trying some other plugs in addition to UAD for those who can't seem to get enough horsepower. Your mixes will probably benefit from the deviation anyhow.
Old 7th July 2008
  #492
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peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
UAD has announced that there will not be a new card.
That is patently false. tutt


To realize just how awful the Duende is, you have to be able to ignore the SSL legacy and the $1500 or whatever you paid for the thing. It was hard for me to ignore those factors, but after repeatedly making the very worst mixes of my life on the thing, I was brought, abruptly, to reality.

Duende is totally craptacularly worthless. The only way I'd like it is if I never heard UAD or Liquid Mix (or Flux, or a few others, etc.) and realized what plugins could do. The X-EQ is a decent EQ, at a great extra cost, and whaddya know, it's just the Algorithmix EQ with a jacked up price, limited instances, and new clothes. tutt

SSL is a completely lost company and if it weren't for that legacy (and Peter Gabriel money) they would have been killed off by Pro Tools five years ago. You guys are helping keep "an audio legend" kicking, at the expense of your work.
Old 8th July 2008
  #493
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
That is patently false. tutt


To realize just how awful the Duende is, you have to be able to ignore the SSL legacy and the $1500 or whatever you paid for the thing. It was hard for me to ignore those factors, but after repeatedly making the very worst mixes of my life on the thing, I was brought, abruptly, to reality.

Duende is totally craptacularly worthless. The only way I'd like it is if I never heard UAD or Liquid Mix (or Flux, or a few others, etc.) and realized what plugins could do. The X-EQ is a decent EQ, at a great extra cost, and whaddya know, it's just the Algorithmix EQ with a jacked up price, limited instances, and new clothes. tutt

SSL is a completely lost company and if it weren't for that legacy (and Peter Gabriel money) they would have been killed off by Pro Tools five years ago. You guys are helping keep "an audio legend" kicking, at the expense of your work.
We did a side by side comparison with the Duende master bus comp and the Waves SSL master bus comp. While I have always liked (and still do) the Waves SSL comp, the Duende, in my opinion, was much better sounding all around. I would buy (and probaly will buy) Duende just for the comp, let alone the eq's. To each their own.
Old 8th July 2008
  #494
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peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
We did a side by side comparison with the Duende master bus comp and the Waves SSL master bus comp. While I have always liked (and still do) the Waves SSL comp, the Duende, in my opinion, was much better sounding all around. I would buy (and probaly will buy) Duende just for the comp, let alone the eq's. To each their own.
I've never claimed Waves (or URS) was better than the Duende...

Plugins have a bad name because there are so many bad plugins. People should try UAD (and Liquid Mix) and then make judgements about plugins.
Old 8th July 2008
  #495
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I've never claimed Waves (or URS) was better than the Duende...

Plugins have a bad name because there are so many bad plugins. People should try UAD (and Liquid Mix) and then make judgements about plugins.
Sure, I was only posting that in response to your observation that Duende is worthless. Quite the contrary in my opinion, it is great. And I have 2 UAD cards. And just about every top shelf plugin to base my opinions on. Different strokes.
Old 8th July 2008
  #496
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I've never claimed Waves (or URS) was better than the Duende...

Plugins have a bad name because there are so many bad plugins. People should try UAD (and Liquid Mix) and then make judgements about plugins.
To each their own. I don't find UAD plugs (the original pultec, 1176 la2a) special in the least. B plugins at best to me. And what I've heard of liquid mix......yikes. Duende is the only plugins I actually lust after, but would never consider buying that huge non functioning dongle.
Old 8th July 2008
  #497
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
To each their own. I don't find UAD plugs (the original pultec, 1176 la2a) special in the least. B plugins at best to me. And what I've heard of liquid mix......yikes. Duende is the only plugins I actually lust after, but would never consider buying that huge non functioning dongle.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find there are no better plugins for the most part.
Old 8th July 2008
  #498
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
But look. This whole thread would cease to exist if we were ALL happy with what we had.. Lets go back to using Atari's??
My whole point is that we are no longer using Ataris, we are many orders of magnitude away from that at this point. We have processing capacity totally undreamt-of even ten years ago, let alone 20 or 50 years ago. Something like BionicFX would make a very tiny difference in comparison — and you are still in a headspace (and possibly a skill level) where you would max out all your DSP anyway.

Quote:
It would be good to ease the load on the CPU - Not all of us run ProTools HD. And not all of us can afford outboard gear... Im running an AMD dual core. So its not the best out there, but its pretty darn good.
I know. It is damned good. You probably have more raw DSP capacity than most PTHD users, since PT utiilizes native DSP so much less efficiently — so you can stop using that for an excuse. You have a top-level DSP capacity, right now, even compared to the "big pros."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
See jslevin.. Exactly what I was trying to say..
Frankly ... I don't give a crap. I was well aware that you are not the only person in the world who thinks that way. I stand by my original remarks completely.

What that guy described was, to me, some combination of (a) inadequate production skills, (b) undisciplined choices (instantiating a new plug-in is not always the answer), (c) inadequate production system for the task (worried about latency vs. stability while the client nervously taps his feet = using the wrong system), and (d) inability to deal confidently with clients as a professional (in the rare instance when we tell clients they'll have to wait, they know there's a good reason for it).

How much of each of those four factors were at work? I can't say. I can say that doubling your DSP won't change it, though.

JSL
Old 8th July 2008
  #499
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manthe's Avatar
 

No offense, but this is completely wrong and misleading. I have 4 UAD-1 cards and every single UAD plug except Dreamverb. I also bought and tested a LM for 3 weeks and regularly mix with a Poco. I have native plugs from PSP, Sonnox, URS, Voxengo, IK MM, NI, GRM, Crysonic, Stilwell and Sonalksis. I also have a Duende Classic with every single extra plug (X-Comp, X-EQ and Drumstrip). The Duende is an incredible tool that has a higher sound quality than anything else in my arsenal. I've been mixing with the UAD plugs for 4 years and native plugs for at least a dozen or more (since I started with digital).

I'm not talking out of my ass here. I have TONS of perspective and reference. I mix with the Duende every single day. They perform amazingly. They don't collapse dimension and stereo imaging like a lot of plugs, they stack better than most, if not all, etc. If you don't care for the character of the sound, then fine. But to say they are bad is silly. Also, if you *actually* get a chance, compare the X-EQ and Algorithmix's EQs, I'd love to know which one it is copied from. SSl may have used some algorithms, or something, but I can't find an Algorithmix EQ that compares. The X-EQ is NOT linear phase and it also can be switched to parallel. It is an amazing tool both in performace and sonic quality. I've never heard a smoother high freq. boost on any plugin, ever.

I demoed the Waves SSL bundle when I first got the Duende. i WANTED it to be better, or at least equal. It would have saved me close to $800. But, the Duende just out-performed and sounded far better.

It has nothing at all to do with the name or the price. In fact, most of my customers ask about Waves stuff. They have better name recognition in the digital, low-to-mid-range studio world. But ultimately I choose what sounds best to me. My mixes have improved and my clients are happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
That is patently false. tutt


To realize just how awful the Duende is, you have to be able to ignore the SSL legacy and the $1500 or whatever you paid for the thing. It was hard for me to ignore those factors, but after repeatedly making the very worst mixes of my life on the thing, I was brought, abruptly, to reality.

Duende is totally craptacularly worthless. The only way I'd like it is if I never heard UAD or Liquid Mix (or Flux, or a few others, etc.) and realized what plugins could do. The X-EQ is a decent EQ, at a great extra cost, and whaddya know, it's just the Algorithmix EQ with a jacked up price, limited instances, and new clothes. tutt

SSL is a completely lost company and if it weren't for that legacy (and Peter Gabriel money) they would have been killed off by Pro Tools five years ago. You guys are helping keep "an audio legend" kicking, at the expense of your work.
Old 8th July 2008
  #500
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+1 (what he said)
Old 11th July 2008
  #501
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Fibes's Avatar
 

Amazing plug ins.

Tee hee.
Old 13th July 2008
  #502
Gear Head
 

Guy on ebay has a card that looks a lot like a uad-1 or a clone.

link:MPACT2 PCI digital Multi-Card - eBay (item 250270057832 end time Jul-19-08 21:50:43 PDT)

has anyone tried one yet? If it works, $149 would be a deal!
Old 13th July 2008
  #503
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solidstate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
That is patently false. tutt


To realize just how awful the Duende is, you have to be able to ignore the SSL legacy and the $1500 or whatever you paid for the thing. It was hard for me to ignore those factors, but after repeatedly making the very worst mixes of my life on the thing, I was brought, abruptly, to reality.

Duende is totally craptacularly worthless. The only way I'd like it is if I never heard UAD or Liquid Mix (or Flux, or a few others, etc.) and realized what plugins could do. The X-EQ is a decent EQ, at a great extra cost, and whaddya know, it's just the Algorithmix EQ with a jacked up price, limited instances, and new clothes. tutt

SSL is a completely lost company and if it weren't for that legacy (and Peter Gabriel money) they would have been killed off by Pro Tools five years ago. You guys are helping keep "an audio legend" kicking, at the expense of your work.
Dude are you drugs or something???!!! Duende channel is one of the best eq/comp algorithm bar none.The X-eq is decent eq????!!!I think you never try the thing..If you did, then it must to be something wrong with your ears..
Liquid mix sound better than duende.. lol that's a good one heh

IMO SSL it's not lost company..I think their products are great! Just look @ the x-rack. It's the sound of an aws900 in a rack for 1/10 of the console price. And yeah, i did compared them.
Old 13th July 2008
  #504
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocktober View Post
Guy on ebay has a card that looks a lot like a uad-1 or a clone.

link:MPACT2 PCI digital Multi-Card - eBay (item 250270057832 end time Jul-19-08 21:50:43 PDT)

has anyone tried one yet? If it works, $149 would be a deal!
Mo. It won't work. Early versions of the software WOULD run using that card, but they don't anymore.
Old 13th July 2008
  #505
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
Dude are you drugs or something???!!! Duende channel is one of the best eq/comp algorithm bar none.The X-eq is decent eq????!!!I think you never try the thing..If you did, then it must to be something wrong with your ears..
Liquid mix sound better than duende.. lol that's a good one heh

IMO SSL it's not lost company..I think their products are great! Just look @ the x-rack. It's the sound of an aws900 in a rack for 1/10 of the console price. And yeah, i did compared them.

SSL EQ from UAD
Old 14th July 2008
  #506
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
To each their own. I don't find UAD plugs (the original pultec, 1176 la2a) special in the least. B plugins at best to me.
It must suck to be half deaf.heh
Old 14th July 2008
  #507
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I've never claimed Waves (or URS) was better than the Duende...

Plugins have a bad name because there are so many bad plugins. People should try UAD (and Liquid Mix) and then make judgements about plugins.
I feel the liquid mix suffers from Convolution artifacts! I really wanted to love it because of the flexibility but the sound suffers from the convolution process. I can also hear it in tritone products and too a much lesser degree Channel strip pro. However the artifacts on the liquidmix made me return it. I would love to the hear the next generation of such a device though!


Jazztone
Old 14th July 2008
  #508
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peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
I feel the liquid mix suffers from Convolution artifacts! I really wanted to love it because of the flexibility but the sound suffers from the convolution process. I can also hear it in tritone products and too a much lesser degree Channel strip pro. However the artifacts on the liquidmix made me return it. I would love to the hear the next generation of such a device though!
They are there, but are about 80db down. If you print fairly hot, and you gain stage things well, and there is a wash of noise from something or other (e.g. a hardware LA-2A, vintage amp, etc.), you're really not going to run into them so easily.

Not all of the LM emulations are created equal either.

It's not perfect, but lots of things (e.g. that LA-2A) are both imperfect and invaluable.

Old 14th July 2008
  #509
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
They are there, but are about 80db down. If you print fairly hot, and you gain stage things well, and there is a wash of noise from something or other (e.g. a hardware LA-2A, vintage amp, etc.), you're really not going to run into them so easily.

Not all of the LM emulations are created equal either.

It's not perfect, but lots of things (e.g. that LA-2A) are both imperfect and invaluable.

That's alot of specifac things you have to do to make it work. Most plug in users are looking for virtual hardware racks. I am sure if we were to take a poll far more people are using plugins by themselves than with outboard.

Also why would anyone print fairly hot these days? Some plug ins work well with hot signals others chew that type of signal up even if set properly. I discovered this by having a mix with low level annoying distortion on the edges. I went back and tracked below -8 to 10 on every sound. All of a sudden the distortion is gone. Mind you, you could not hear any distortion on the raw hotter tracks. It's just that some of the plugs out there we all use don't handle hot signals well (massey tape). Anyways I think you have a unique set up that the liquidmix fits into. However that 80 DB down( and I think that's a little overstated unless my ears are that good) rises with lots of instances. I have even heard the junk in the liquidmix osclillate with other instances. I think i's important to state the way you made the liquidmix work in your set-up when recommending it, as many end users will be strictly using it in the box without hardware noisefloor to cover the convolution junk. I think the liquidmix box is unusable for pro results on it's own. That's what alot of beginners will be doing, buying this as there first set of Plug ins. Just an opinion.

Jazztone
Old 14th July 2008
  #510
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peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
That's alot of specifac things you have to do to make it work. Most plug in users are looking for virtual hardware racks. I am sure if we were to take a poll far more people are using plugins by themselves than with outboard.

Also why would anyone print fairly hot these days? Some plug ins work well with hot signals others chew that type of signal up even if set properly. I discovered this by having a mix with low level annoying distortion on the edges. I went back and tracked below -8 to 10 on every sound. All of a sudden the distortion is gone. Mind you, you could not hear any distortion on the raw hotter tracks. It's just that some of the plugs out there we all use don't handle hot signals well (massey tape). Anyways I think you have a unique set up that the liquidmix fits into. However that 80 DB down( and I think that's a little overstated unless my ears are that good) rises with lots of instances. I have even heard the junk in the liquidmix osclillate with other instances. I think i's important to state the way you made the liquidmix work in your set-up when recommending it, as many end users will be strictly using it in the box without hardware noisefloor to cover the convolution junk. I think the liquidmix box is unusable for pro results on it's own. That's what alot of beginners will be doing, buying this as there first set of Plug ins. Just an opinion.

Jazztone
Uh, ever used tape and vintage hardware? Once you learn the ins and outs of ITB with UAD/LM, this is a lot easier to deal with.

If you don't want to print hot it's OK just bring up the level before hitting the plug.

This is no different than analog, though for some dumb reason, people insist that it must be.

There are things to learn about every way you skin this cat, and you can grumble about it, but your pitfalls are my variety.
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