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Waves analog button Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 20th August 2008
  #1
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Waves analog button

Just wondering if people are using the analog button on the various Waves plug-ins. Seems somewhat crazy to be adding hiss. I realize it's apparently adding harmonics, too, but still...and I imagine it can add up over a number of tracks and a number of plugins and compressing and so on raising the noise floor...do they make a Doubly ™ plugin?
Old 20th August 2008
  #2
There's more than hiss involved, unless I'm losing my mind and/or ears. There's also some low end boost as well, it seems to me, though I've not measured it. I also assume it's adding more harmonics, not necessarily hiss, right?
Old 20th August 2008
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
There's more than hiss involved, unless I'm losing my mind and/or ears. There's also some low end boost as well, it seems to me, though I've not measured it. I also assume it's adding more harmonics, not necessarily hiss, right?
I don't know...so are you leaving it on or turning it off? Just seems like it could be a huge regret to purposefully add noise without being certain that what it's adding is clearly good and is truly making a difference for the better.
Old 20th August 2008
  #4
But it's designed to emulate the SSL products. If you aren't looking for that kind of sound, then probably you should be using a cleaner set of tools. I tend to keep it off because of the low end boost, which adds up if it's on a lot of tracks, it seems to me, not because of the addition of harmonics which is probably a good thing.
Old 20th August 2008
  #5
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Okay thanks. I'm also curious about the other plugs that add hiss or boosts or whatever...the V-Series and the API and any others. I would guess that the "analog" emulation must be different for each plug.

Also, do the other companies that have plugin versions of these pieces of hardware (UAD, URS and any others) also add the "analog" characteristics? And can you turn them off?
Old 20th August 2008
  #6
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Chris Doremus's Avatar
 

You guys should check out the puig 660 Those add alot of noise....So therefor that noise is on a lot of records out there. SO DONT WORRY ABOUT IT
Old 20th August 2008
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Doremus View Post
You guys should check out the puig 660 Those add alot of noise....So therefor that noise is on a lot of records out there. SO DONT WORRY ABOUT IT
I dunno, I could not figure out what the problem with the V-eq4 plug was until I unclicked analog. It added some nutso hiss when enabled.

I did this the other day when I came up with a song idea and recorded a verse/chorus to remember. Its done live with two mics and line. the percussion is on the guitar while im playing notice the hiss difference. V-eq is on left and right tracks. Vocals have ssl chan i think.

here is the first track with analog button on;
http://joshnoone.com/temp/stand%20tall-03.mp3

here it is with it off;
http://joshnoone.com/temp/stand%20tall-05.mp3

Hows it sound by the way?


on a side note; So how does one get the high end to come out without background hiss? Im still a newbie at this stuff. Some sort of multi band gate or comp that will amplify the high end when it reaches a certain db? Or some sort of dynamic plugin?

-josh
Old 20th August 2008
  #8
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badboymusic's Avatar
 

Gate the hiss out in between or just automate in down.
Old 20th August 2008
  #9
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ProducerBoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjett View Post
I dunno, I could not figure out what the problem with the V-eq4 plug was until I unclicked analog. It added some nutso hiss when enabled.

I did this the other day when I came up with a song idea and recorded a verse/chorus to remember. Its done live with two mics and line. the percussion is on the guitar while im playing notice the hiss difference. V-eq is on left and right tracks. Vocals have ssl chan i think.

here is the first track with analog button on;
http://joshnoone.com/temp/stand%20tall-03.mp3

here it is with it off;
http://joshnoone.com/temp/stand%20tall-05.mp3

Hows it sound by the way?


on a side note; So how does one get the high end to come out without background hiss? Im still a newbie at this stuff. Some sort of multi band gate or comp that will amplify the high end when it reaches a certain db? Or some sort of dynamic plugin?

-josh
Sounds better with the hiss. (IMO)
If I were doing modern R&B or Hip Hop, slick pop etc... I would wan't to avoid the hiss. But for most everything else I do, I miss that hiss if it isn't in there. (i get it from a ribbon mic I always use.... makes me feel goood.)

I noticed this when my iPod was shuffling through, it landed on an old Stevie Wonder track and it had all this hiss. But with the hiss, it sounded more welcoming. Not so perfect and canned. More alive. Just my opinion.

Oh! and it sounds real good, man. Thumbs up. : )
Old 20th August 2008
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
Sounds better with the hiss. (IMO)
If I were doing modern R&B or Hip Hop, slick pop etc... I would wan't to avoid the hiss. But for most everything else I do, I miss that hiss if it isn't in there. (i get it from a ribbon mic I always use.... makes me feel goood.)

I noticed this when my iPod was shuffling through, it landed on an old Stevie Wonder track and it had all this hiss. But with the hiss, it sounded more welcoming. Not so perfect and canned. More alive. Just my opinion.

Oh! and it sounds real good, man. Thumbs up. : )
+1 for hiss, it is somehow friendly.
Old 20th August 2008
  #11
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The analog button induces hiss (especially in the v-series), but it also induces some kind of harmonic distortion. That's what it's all about when using these plugs imo. I never bought them, just demo-ed them, but the hiss never became irritating when using the plugs on a lot of channels. It's vintage man!
Old 20th August 2008
  #12
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPeters86 View Post
The analog button induces hiss (especially in the v-series), but it also induces some kind of harmonic distortion. That's what it's all about when using these plugs imo. I never bought them, just demo-ed them, but the hiss never became irritating when using the plugs on a lot of channels. It's vintage man!
That was just the reason why I bought my SSL package.
And if you mix a full arrangement by a band the hiss wont be audible.
If you switch it off at all strips you will miss something.

The SSL Plug Ins by Waves would be something waht I realy miss if I had to give them away. I am also thinking to buy teh API and V Ser.
Old 20th August 2008
  #13
definitely adds hiss, definitely adds harmonic distortion, definitely adds some low mids, and definitely allows analog style clipping... the last of which is my fav.
Old 20th August 2008
  #14
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miqer's Avatar
 

Leave it on! :O
Old 20th August 2008
  #15
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vodka gimli's Avatar
 

Loved the first one. Second sounded fake. The fake hiss is... realer!
Old 27th August 2008
  #16
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macgee's Avatar
i love hiss, not on everything but for some stuff it's just what the doctor ordered
Old 27th August 2008
  #17
Gear Head
 

But hey, on Puig plugs you also have an option to choose between 50/60 Hz Buzz!
I am just too old for that crap, so I just turn those off...
Old 27th August 2008
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray View Post
Just wondering if people are using the analog button on the various Waves plug-ins. Seems somewhat crazy to be adding hiss. I realize it's apparently adding harmonics, too, but still...and I imagine it can add up over a number of tracks and a number of plugins and compressing and so on raising the noise floor...do they make a Doubly ™ plugin?
People will spend tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to add noise and distortion to a recording by buying vintage gear. It just has to be the right noise and the right distortion.

Absolutely clean recordings are kind of... boring. In the past I've added low level white noise to a session for thickness.
Old 28th August 2008
  #19
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker View Post
Absolutely clean recordings are kind of... boring. In the past I've added low level white noise to a session for thickness.
i use DUY tape for this noise, put 2 instances on and pan one left and one right - very cool tape hiss - i've done this often
Old 1st October 2008
  #20
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Siem's Avatar
 

I was a bit in a hurry so I mixed an 80 channel track yesterday using mostly the Waves SSL plugins, the analog button was enabled by default.
I wasn't happy with the mix, because it ended up sounding unclear and there was quite a noisefloor in the background.
I disabled the analog button on all of the plugins and the track had an amazing clearity, like a veil of dust was removed. I'm not going to enable the analog button again.
Old 1st October 2008
  #21
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Wilburguy's Avatar
The whole point of the Waves API, SSL and V Series console plugins is to emulate older analog electronics. If you turn off the analog modeling you miss the whole point of the plugin.

Listen carefully. It is a lot more than hiss. For instance, try overdriving the SSL channel with and without the analog modeling. Push the output up and follow the SSL with a trim plugin to keep from clipping the ProTools bus. With the analog modeling on, it crunches up like an analog desk, with the modeling off, it just clips.

If I want a clean eq I will use a Sony Oxford or Massenburg, not an eq specifically designed to add analog color and character. Proper tool for the proper job.
Old 1st October 2008
  #22
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taturana's Avatar
I use the analog button in both positions... off and on, depending on the material and if i do like the sound and or the hiss... sometimes it is too much. and the v-series i never set it to 100%, normally preffering 25-50%
Old 1st October 2008
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

I have the API bundle, and I've started thinking of the analog switch as another EQ tweak. When it's on, it enhances the highs and puts a little bump in the low mids - maybe some hiss, too, but the his is not particularly a concern. I find the low mid bump gets in my way more often than not (designed to emulate the transformer?). So I very often use the plugs with the analog switch off.

I'm glad they put the switch on there, because even if I wanted to use the hardware emulation sound all the time, I wouldn't necessarily want to apply it several times on one track. If I'm using the API EQ and compressor on one track, I can engage the analog switch on just one of the plugs if I want that sound. Or I'll use the plugs without the analog switch on individual tracks in a group, then engage the switch on the bus for those tracks. Just a couple of ideas.
Old 1st October 2008
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

It also occurs to me that the high frequency enhancement of the analog switch would increase hiss (from hardware or air) that's already present in the track.
Old 1st October 2008
  #25
Quote:
Push the output up and follow the SSL with a trim plugin to keep from clipping the ProTools bus. With the analog modeling on, it crunches up like an analog desk, with the modeling off, it just clips.
Wouldn't the output level serve that purpose? I.e. no need for a trim plugin, just lower the SSL strip's output knob?
Old 1st October 2008
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilburguy View Post
With the analog modeling on, it crunches up like an analog desk, with the modeling off, it just clips.
I'd be interested to hear this...

could someone post up a couple of clips of something with the analog modeling on and crunching, and then off and clipping?
Old 2nd October 2008
  #27
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alexp's Avatar
With my API plugs I am always in Analog mode.


Plus 1 on the hiss as well. Sometimes I will do a submix of drums and then record it onto a 4 track tape deck. Mixed back in over the main drum tracks it tends to make them sound thicker.

alexP
Old 2nd October 2008
  #28
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siem View Post
I was a bit in a hurry so I mixed an 80 channel track yesterday using mostly the Waves SSL plugins, the analog button was enabled by default.
...
I disabled the analog button on all of the plugins and the track had an amazing clearity, like a veil of dust was removed. I'm not going to enable the analog button again.

maybe there's a middle ground somewhere between 80 and 0?


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 2nd October 2008
  #29
I thought it emulated the SNR of the original gear and the non-linearity
of the "vintage" op-amps?

jeff
Old 2nd October 2008
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
Wilburguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Wouldn't the output level serve that purpose? I.e. no need for a trim plugin, just lower the SSL strip's output knob?
The "analog overdrive" happens at the output of the plugin. It's a trick I saw in a SSL plugin demo video and I tried it and it works. The idea is to overdrive the plugin but not the bus. Try it and see what your ears tell you!
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