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Using a MOTU 8pre with Apogee Ensemble in LOGIC 8 Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 19th August 2008
  #1
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Using a MOTU 8pre with Apogee Ensemble in LOGIC 8

Greetings all!

Yes yes ! I know the word "MOTU" is used here in the HIGH END diner.

Tomorrow I'm buying an Apogee Ensemble for my MacBook Pro/Logic 8 setup... YAY!

I've been using my MOTU 8pre as my STARTER interface for Logic. I got it a Guitar Center, open box (shocker!) with the WRONG MANUAL (nooooo at GC!?!?), or I should say NO manual. The 8pre was easy to get going.....plug er into my Firewire port to my MBP, plug my midi controller to the MOTU and voila!

The 8pre preamps are good.... NOT great .....but they stack well. I'll be KEEPING the 8pre to have extra inputs for larger jobs. My next round I'm getting an Apogee Symphony/Rosetta 800 and some API (more on that another time!)

Since the Ensemble does not have a midi interface, I must use the 8pre for that task....

So..... to avoid the oft used phrase "RTF" here on GS...... and since I have no manual for my 8pre ........ and since MOTU has yet to have a PDF of the manual on their website (neither does Musiciansfriend; and they're good about that!) ........ does anybody know of a solution for......

Can I hook up my MOTU to my Ensemble's Firewire port and use all 16 channels at once? (the MOTU's 8, and the Ensemble's 8....yes I have pres for the last 4 channels of the Ensemble)? Is there a BETTER solution (like sell my MOTU and get TWO Ensembles ha ha!)?

ALSO, how do I get them to clock together (remember I have NO manual!)?

Any help will be great appreciated. THANKS!
Old 19th August 2008
  #2
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dft3670's Avatar
 

Funny, I had the same setup, though I just got rid off the 8 Pre. What I did was pick up an optical cable and hook it from the 8 Pre optical out into the Ensemble optical in. Then firewire out of the Ensemble into the computer. I used the Ensemble as my master clock and it worked fine. Your DAW will see 16 inputs. Whether you can track all 16 at one time without any hiccups will be determined by the speed of your computer. I have a Mac G5 Dual 1.8 and it tracks 16 with no problems.

You don't need to use any of the MOTU software set up this way. The 8 Pre is operating just as a 8 channel preamp into the Ensemble.
Old 20th August 2008
  #3
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Thanks for the reply dft3670 ! I go pick up my Ensemble in about an hour (woo hoo!)

Now I was having trouble running 96k with my MOTU. I have a 2.2 GHz MacBook Pro, 4GB RAM so it shouldn't be a problem; again, I don't have a MOTU 8pre manual so I have no idea how do anything but choose the channel and hit record.

Anyway. Thanks again! I can't wait to record through the Ensemble. I'm doing a classical guitar project with Flute & Violin.... I'll be posting some comps soon!
Old 20th August 2008
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Digital Performer has support for multiple audio devices simultaneously. So then you could use both at the same time via FW. As far as I know no other DAWs support multiple core audio drivers though...

Otherwise it's the optical route to go.
If you like the MOTU drivers/cuemix then you could plug the Ensamble into the 8pre via ADAT or otherwise the 8pre into the Ensemble optical in.

But I guess Ensamble's preamp gain is software controlled?
Old 20th August 2008
  #5
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Thanks for the replies guys and please keep em coming!......
THANKS for all the replies guys..........

Any answers YOU all need? It's about time I GIVE BACK! If anyone needs lemme know! Here are the things I can help you with!

**I know ALL about Roland vs 1880 & 2480's ..... tech q's to how-to's!

**ANYTHING guitar / AMP / pickup / speaker / effects -wise...I've been through it all!

**ANYTHING classical guitar wise (notation, sources, Wedding, funeral repetoire ......ME! etc.)

**music THEORY questions ........... I'm your guy! (Walter Piston, Fort-Pilaska)

**Ridge Farm Industries stuff ( Gas Cooker OR Boiler q's!)

........... so lemme give back to YOU! THANKS SLUTZ!
Old 26th August 2008
  #6
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I FINALLY BOUGHT AN ENSEMBLE! Love it.... problems....

So I took the $2,000 plunge and bought my Ensemble! Here's the skinny.....

*Logic 8 running on my MacBook Pro (2.2GHz , 250GB HD, 4GB RAM).
AYAK, Mac Book Pros have 1 Firewire 800 & 1 Firewire 400 input; I also have a Firewire PCI card plugged in which gives me 2 more FW in's.

*A MOTU 8pre running into my FW CARD with my LaCie HD running into the FW800.

Now, regarding the Apogee Ensemble…. WOW! Are the pres nice! And a FINE integration with Logic, ie the control panel n such! The pres are NEARLY as nice as my Millennia and that's saying a lot! Plus, if I run my Ridge Farm Gas Cookers or my LA-610 into the last 4 inputs, I get a GREAT variety of sounds and controllability.

WELL, the Ensemble is like a HOT girl friend that makes your toes curl but THEN, you find out she's a PSYCHO…but you don't wanna dump her cuz she's just so freakin hot and does things to you that…..c'mon I know we've ALL been there!…..with the girl AND the gear!

So, why PYSCHO?!?! I just bought my unit this past August 22, 2008 (3 daze, I mean DAYS ago) from GC in Hollywood. I figured or ASSUMED it was a CURRENT version without all the BETA issues we've all read about! Well here are the issues:

1.) The MacBook Pro/LOGIC has lost sync (went offline) with it a couple of time and I had to reboot. The Apogee Audio Control Panel has become MOLASSES SLOW…leaving to have to reboot……Are the above DRIVER issues? How do I fix em?

2.) At START UP, I MUST have the Ensemble turned OFF and THEN, once booted up turn on the Ensemble for it to be recognized…..now is this NORMAL for a Mac or is this an Ensemble trait? OR is it ANOTHER problem with the Ensemble? (OBTW, I'm a NEW Mac user woo hoo!)……..my MOTU 8pre would always have to be turned on BEFORE I booted up for it to be recognized and used in Logic….this is NOT the case for the Ensemble. I'd like to keep my MOTU 8pre….it's a pretty good interface and served me well as my first interface, as well as having more than decent pres!

3.) Last issue; when I hook BOTH the Ensemble and 8pre to my MBP (via FW of course), LOGIC will NOT recognize the 8pre. I can't even find it as an audio option. I'd like to be able to use BOTH of these and be able to record 16 channels at once…I've tried hooking these up MANY different ways…

-Ensemble to FW port of MBP with 8pre hooked up TO the Ensemble via Ensemble's FW and vice versa
-Ensemble to FW port of MBP with 8pre hooked up TO the Ensemble via Ensemble's LIGHT PIPE
-Ensemble to FW port of MBP and the 8pre hooked up to FW PCI Card port of MBP.

The above didn't seem to work… Can I indeed connect the 8pre AND Ensemble to my MBP and use them TOGETHER????

Now I am a NEWBIE to Mac AND Logic, BUT I ain't no FRESH OFF THE IDIOT TRAIN NEW…I work in computer recording frequently so please don't assume I'm a newbie NOT doing research. This is REAL WORLD TROUBLE HERE!

Also, if you think this is a case of RTFMJ (Read The F****** Manual Jacka$$), then you have NO IDEA what kind of manual comes WITH the Ensemble! Yeah, for those of you that know, the manual is a JOKE and doesn't really address much!

So, please help my fellow Slutz/Logiceers/Ensemblites!! Should I dump the girl and get another 8pre (which I KNOW I can daisy chain together)…remember, this girl is SO HOT….I love this Ensemble, but for $2,000, it shouldn't have THIS many issues! For 2K I get another MOTU 8pre, $500, another HD, $700 (a good Glyph 1TB always comes in handy…hey who doesn’t need another HD sitting around??), and maybe $800 of plug ins! Or shoot, I'll PAY SOME BILLS! So, any clues? Tips?
Old 26th August 2008
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Happy to hear you like the sound of your Ensemble, and sorry to hear you are having problems. I'm sure that they can be easily fixed.
The best thing to do would be to contact our tech support department and they can get you set up and running in no time. (310)584-9394 or [email protected]

Chris Lawson
Apogee Electronics
Old 27th August 2008
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 View Post
3.) Last issue; when I hook BOTH the Ensemble and 8pre to my MBP (via FW of course), LOGIC will NOT recognize the 8pre. I can't even find it as an audio option. I'd like to be able to use BOTH of these and be able to record 16 channels at once…I've tried hooking these up MANY different ways…

-Ensemble to FW port of MBP with 8pre hooked up TO the Ensemble via Ensemble's FW and vice versa
-Ensemble to FW port of MBP with 8pre hooked up TO the Ensemble via Ensemble's LIGHT PIPE
-Ensemble to FW port of MBP and the 8pre hooked up to FW PCI Card port of MBP.
Make sure the 8pre's drivers are seen by the computer in the manor you're chaining it to the Ensemble. Once connection has been verified [if the CPU sees the unit on the chain, it will add it to the driver list in Audio/MIDI] You then need to create an "aggregate device" with the Core Audio control panel, Audio/MIDI setup, to use both units with Logic.

You can go into the "aggregate device editor" under the AUDIO pull down menu at the top of the screen. Now you can choose which drivers should be matched together as ONE driver, even the Built in Audio Driver can be added for monitoring and such. Once you've created the aggregate driver, you would select the "Aggregate Device" in Logics Audio Pref's, AUDIO menu where the drivers are set, thus giving you access to ALL the peripherals that you've got hooked up. Comes in handy in our studio where we have 72 AD/DA channels running in aggregate on our Mac Pro.

Here is another GEM, you don't need to connect the FW of the Motu...USE OPTION TWO ABOVE [without the FW part dude] as you can just ADAT the digital signal into the Ensemble's added ADAT inputs, thus adding 8 more inputs to Logic with the same drivers. They should be 9-16 and the SPDIF should be 17-18 with the Ensemble in Logic. Using the ADAT would be my move, as chaining FW gets hairier than 90 year old snatch.

Also, there is a SPDIF 2-channel port on the Mac Book Pro, its a sleeper because its located in the same place as the built in audio 1/8 inch I/O connections on the side of the computer. You just need to get the Optical adapters so you can use 2-channel ADC/DAC with TOSlink connections directly.

Macs Rule. Enjoy the new upgrade.

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE LOGIC AND THE DRIVERS FOR THE ENSEMBLE.

Last edited by Doc Mixwell; 27th August 2008 at 12:20 AM.. Reason: OH YEA.....
Old 27th August 2008
  #9
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I just DL'd Logic 8 AND Mac Updates!

Ok, I just DL'd the updates for Logic AND my Mac.....

It's getting late so I'll try it out tomorrow and post from there.....

From the get go, my Mac is recognizing the Ensemble with NO problems, ie, no more querky issues!

I'll update tomorrow!!!!
Old 3rd September 2008
  #10
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....ok, after a few days....

....check my update......

Apogee Ensemble
Old 3rd September 2008
  #11
Old 10th November 2008
  #12
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Ok this "issue" is over several threads regarding the Apogee Ensemble. Why the hell is my Ensemble not routing my external ADAT preamp (MOTU 8pre) into Logic. I've done all that Apogee tech support has told me to, ie., all the correct Maestro routing etc.

NOTHING!?!? There's no way that this is a RTFM because TFM is a POS that doesn't explain much.....

YES, I'm only using the Ensemble at 44.1k (which should be NO problem using ADAT), YES, the Ensemble at 44.1K can do 16 I/O... why is this not working?

None of the inputs 9-16 can be heard. WTH?!?!
Old 10th November 2008
  #13
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Anybody from Apogee, please chime in. Thanks!
Old 10th November 2008
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

I just spoke with Brett in tech support, he said that you sent him an e-mail saying that everything was working fine, and that you had figured out it was a problem with the MOTU.
If you are again having trouble please give tech support a call back.
As you know, they are more than happy to help you.

Chris Lawson
Apogee Electronics
Old 11th November 2008
  #15
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawson View Post
I just spoke with Brett in tech support, he said that you sent him an e-mail saying that everything was working fine, and that you had figured out it was a problem with the MOTU.
If you are again having trouble please give tech support a call back.
As you know, they are more than happy to help you.

Chris Lawson
Apogee Electronics
WORKS GREAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes indeed, I did email Brett. The MOTU interface does NOT explain the process of using the 8pre as a stand alone converter. I emailed them and it was a SMALL adjustment that needed to be made.....

The "Volume" button/knob must be PUSHED & set to converter.... DUH!!!!! How easy is that.....coulda put that in the manual MOTU!!!

I anyway, I tracked Drums (14 tracks; OH L & R, Center 6' away, Room L & R, Snare Top, Snare Bottom, Bass Drum Inside, Bass Drum Outside, Hi Hat, Tom 1, Tom 2, Tom 3, Center OH) with the Ensemble & MOTU...no latency and it worked like a charm. WOW!

The Ensemble's pres stack well with my Wunder, Millennia, Ridge Farm, True & the MOTU's pres.... The MOTU's onboard pres actually sound improved under Apogee's conversion; very clean, not alot of color, but nice. I should be getting my API 3124 next week (why does FedEx & UPS take so long!!?!??) so I'll be using the API for the CENTER (gana borrow a Royer 121 and JACK UP THE GAIN!!!), Kick Inside & Snare TOP!!!!
Old 11th November 2008
  #16
Gear Head
 

I bought an 8pre for my buddy's new studio to use as an additional 8 ADAT ins/puts for a M-Audio ProFire. Anyway, there is something about the 8pre that is unusual...at least to me. It must have both ADAT in and out attached and you must use the on/off volume knob for assigning clock source and sample rate.

Hopefully this will help.

Peace.
Old 12th November 2008
  #17
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Exactly! That's what was giving me grief! Now it works flawlessly! The 8pre is a great interface to use as a standalone converter going into another converter... 8 preamps that sound pretty good (especially going through Apogee's conversion) AND you can control each channel's parameters (20dB pad, 48v & level) all without software. It's pretty much the quincessential ( no I can NOT spell!) stand alone convertor.... the Ensemble, however, is the bomb diggety Firewire Interface!
Old 12th November 2008
  #18
Gear Head
 

Yeah. I'm hating on the Ensemble. That is indeed a beast.

I'm still using a Digi 001, although I have a Digi 002R here too. I don't use the preamps though. I use a Symetrix 528 modified by Jim Williams at audioupgrades.com and a Lucid AD 9624. [Jim recently told me that he can tweak the AD 9624 for better quality A/D conversion.]

But, I'm still hating on the Ensemble.

Peace and enjoy.
Old 15th November 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homershines View Post
Yeah. I'm hating on the Ensemble. That is indeed a beast.

I'm still using a Digi 001, although I have a Digi 002R here too. I don't use the preamps though. I use a Symetrix 528 modified by Jim Williams at audioupgrades.com and a Lucid AD 9624. [Jim recently told me that he can tweak the AD 9624 for better quality A/D conversion.]

But, I'm still hating on the Ensemble.

Peace and enjoy.
Why, may I ask, are you hating on the Ensemble?
Old 15th November 2008
  #20
Gear Head
 

Aww. You know. I guess I hate because I ain't got one, so I'm pathetically mad at the product for showing up at somebody else's door. It's stupid and actually kinda funny too. But in truth, the Ensemble is a real beast. It's a breakthru product and I guess that's enough reason to have interface envy.

Enjoy it. Make lots of music and get ready to hate on somebody or something else for some crazy reason.

Peace.
Old 16th November 2008
  #21
Gear Addict
 

If you know all about Roland VS 2480's please give me some tips as to why I should keep it in my studio. I used it for years doing some light jingle and production stuff. I loved it easy to use, except for editing, sounded pretty good, I actually like the built in compression. Of course I eventually bought a Power Mac G5 and a Powerbook and went with Digital Performer, Reason, all the MOTU and Arturia soft synths, etc.

I'm upgrading early next year to a new Mac Pro 8 core quad or whatever they release in January as well as a new Mac Book Pro. I'll give the powerbook to my wife, use the G5 as a back up system and a place to store my sample libraries. However I still have my Roland VS2480 wired and ready to use, also have the VSR880 rack R-bused to it as well. I won't sell it because I still have a bunch of projects archived on it but I'd love for someone to give me a "you should use it to do this...." and keep it vital in my studio. My digital mixer is a ROland VM7200 which I love and use every day, also still use my Roland MC-80 sequencer b/c I love the way it quantizes certain things. I just want someone to suggest something I haven't thought of.

This happened to me with my Tascam DA78HR. Someone suggested I use it for its A/D converters, better then just looking nice in my rack. I bought that thing when post production facilities were still using Hi8 tape for scores.

2480... anything???

thanks
Old 17th November 2008
  #22
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by homershines View Post
Aww. You know. I guess I hate because I ain't got one, so I'm pathetically mad at the product for showing up at somebody else's door. It's stupid and actually kinda funny too. But in truth, the Ensemble is a real beast. It's a breakthru product and I guess that's enough reason to have interface envy.

Enjoy it. Make lots of music and get ready to hate on somebody or something else for some crazy reason.

Peace.
Dude, go buy one! They're like $1,400 - 1,500 on eBay these days! (Don't pay more than that! They're selling ALL DAY at that price on eBay)! You won't regret it. I'll talk you through stuff if you need.
What kinda interface are you using right now?
Old 17th November 2008
  #23
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DanRock101's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gongbass View Post
If you know all about Roland VS 2480's please give me some tips as to why I should keep it in my studio. I used it for years doing some light jingle and production stuff. I loved it easy to use, except for editing, sounded pretty good, I actually like the built in compression. Of course I eventually bought a Power Mac G5 and a Powerbook and went with Digital Performer, Reason, all the MOTU and Arturia soft synths, etc.

I'm upgrading early next year to a new Mac Pro 8 core quad or whatever they release in January as well as a new Mac Book Pro. I'll give the powerbook to my wife, use the G5 as a back up system and a place to store my sample libraries. However I still have my Roland VS2480 wired and ready to use, also have the VSR880 rack R-bused to it as well. I won't sell it because I still have a bunch of projects archived on it but I'd love for someone to give me a "you should use it to do this...." and keep it vital in my studio. My digital mixer is a ROland VM7200 which I love and use every day, also still use my Roland MC-80 sequencer b/c I love the way it quantizes certain things. I just want someone to suggest something I haven't thought of.

This happened to me with my Tascam DA78HR. Someone suggested I use it for its A/D converters, better then just looking nice in my rack. I bought that thing when post production facilities were still using Hi8 tape for scores.

2480... anything???

thanks
You know, I use my Rolands as teaching tools in classrooms; They're great all-in scratch pads! ALSO, they can be used as your "central station" for your monitors n such, think about it! If you need a mixer for a gig, what is better than a 2480?!?! On board effects etc!

My advice is start transfering your Roland projects to your new format(s). You can export each track to WAVES and use them in any DAW. OR, you can output them to your favorite pre/comp and RE-record them to you new DAW. Unless you don't have room, keep the Rolands! I do!
Old 27th July 2009
  #24
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hey_mavis's Avatar
 

i just read thru this post, (great tips about agrigate drivers)

I am thinking of using the motu 8pre as an extra 8 ins for an allen and heath zed r 16, so it would be the same kind of deal as what u are doing with your ensemble,

I just want to double check that the motu 8pre SYNCS up with the ensemble (AKA external device) via lightpipe alone, no word clock or anything, the ensemble accepts the digital signal from the motu 8pre via lightpipe and nothing else, is that right?
Old 14th July 2010
  #25
Here for the gear
 

Question MOTU 8pre Firewire fail?

This has been very useful information.
I just bought a MOTU 8pre myself for my homestudio and on-location recordings . It came with a firewire-400 cable, my Macbook Pro has a firewire 800 connection so I also bought a firewire 400-800 cable. I just hooked it op but the computer and the MOTU Audio Setup software do not seem to notice it's connected.

Any hints?

My PCI slot is still empty, should I go out and buy myself a Firewire PCI card so I can use the firewire 400 cable it came with and return the firewire 400-800 cable?

Cheers,
Jorick
Old 2nd June 2014
  #26
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matthall32's Avatar
 

Apogee Ensemble plus mixer, no optical

I have a firewire mixer and an Apogee Ensemble, but the mixer has no optical port. I need to use the channels on the mixer so that I can record a band live, but I don't know how to use both simultaneously... Please help!
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