The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Has Logic Simply Won? DAW Software
Old 6th August 2008
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by profkojo View Post
I've been running Nuendo on a PC for a while now(Used Cubase for years b4 that) and I'm looking to get a laptop system running for a number of reasons. There's always been healthy competition betwen Steinberg and Logic but since they've lowered the price it seems as if everybody and their momma is running Logic now. It just seems as if working with other people, travelling and working etc would be much easier if I just got on the Logic train at this point. So are the DAW wars over? Has Logic simply won?
War over the DAW??? Digital Audio WAR!!!!!!!!

I don't think its a war.....and there are no winners and losers, its in the eye of the beholder. I'd be the first to tell you how bad of a product certain DAW software programs are, but that would only be MY OPINION that DOES NOT illustrate what yours is. I think "the war" you speak of is only strongly opinionated posters who think what they use is the best, as they are quick to let others know what the "best" is.......which to me, seems counter productive to help answer the question in relation to the end user.

BUT......Guess what......it is the best.....for them because they made the choice based on the immediate needs and wants. There is NO best, as "best" is only what you define to be the most useful for YOUR production. This is different from everyone, same as everything else with recording equipment.

Never let anyone dictate what will be the proper tool for your requirements. This goes for the DAW and ANYTHING gear related. You must balance the options, based on your needs; your computer, your hardware, your work flow attributes, the G-U-I [graphical user interface] layout even. Use what makes the most sense for your work flow and your needs.

Money is the root of all evil and Music is the highway to the soul,
What matters to you?
Old 6th August 2008
  #32
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
a little chees with your wine?

The whole concept of dongles is only a hassel for people who want to steal software.

I've got 1 iLok and 1 syncrosoft key with a total of 30 authorizations. Each authorization took me all of 30 seconds to enact. If your time is too valuable to put forth that effort then you should be buying studio time instead of studio software.

If things break my licesnes are backed up online and can be downloaded to a new key. S.I.M.P.L.E.

.....unless you're a thief. Then dongles are "the man" preventing you from "being creative."
Old 6th August 2008
  #33
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Money is the root of all evil and Music is the highway to the soul,
What matters to you?
Amen.... perhaps you could say "Studio trends are the root of all evil and making music is the only goal."

or

"DAW trends are the root of all studio headaches and selling music fills my cereal bowl."

or

.....
Old 6th August 2008
  #34
Gear Addict
 
Electronique's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
BUT......Guess what......it is the best.....for them because they made the choice based on the immediate needs and wants.
I think a huge amount of users out there made thier desicion NOT on needs and wants.. But on NAME!

Starters out will go with PTLE, because it holds the name ProTools?? Other go Logic and Cubase, because of the name.. Sonar, in my opinion ****s on PTLE. But Digi still are gaining new starters/customers with LE..

Im a Sonar user and probably a bit bias (just like anyone). I chose Sonar when Sonar 3 came out. It was either that or Cubase SX2.. I actually chose Sonar, because I didnt want to go with a name - That and the great reviews in mags at the time..
Old 6th August 2008
  #35
16942
Guest
This is truly a stupid topic.

If you are primarily a recording studio or post-production house that caters to many different clients and so consistency and stability are your priorities, there is still nothing like a PT HD rig.

If you are a project studio mostly doing your own stuff, Logic, Cubase, DP, and Sonar are all great apps, each with their own specific strengths and weaknesses.

As a package, bang for the buck, I do think Logic Studio is hard to beat, but the whole winner/loser think is just dumb.
Old 6th August 2008
  #36
Gear Addict
 

I spoke with a composer who was a guest in the Euphonix booth at NAMM. I asked him what DAW he uses and his answer surprised me a bit. He uses them all. It is easier for him to just use the program that the client uses. His preference was Logic for it's customization abilities and I assume he'd been using it for years.

My opinion doesn't matter, but I'll give it anyway ...

I think Logic hasn't really won yet, but they did just kick all of their competitors in the nuts when they lowered the price. And we all know how much that hurts.

~Jay
Old 7th August 2008
  #37
Gear Nut
 

I don't have anything to add from what the previous two "Jays" posted, except to say:

Cubase/Nuendo v4.1.3 is much better on the Mac platform than previous versions have been--and Steinberg has an update coming in the next few weeks--so I wouldn't count it out anymore as "weak" on the Mac side. Also, once the new DP6 settles in, it will again be a major contender, IMHO.

It's always fluid, and it depends on how you work and who you're working for.

Regards,

Bill
Old 7th August 2008
  #38
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingswood6 View Post
Also, once the new DP6 settles in, it will again be a major contender, IMHO.
Man I hope so. DP has always been a strong program but 5 was a nightmare; especially if you work with WAVES plugins.
Old 7th August 2008
  #39
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 

This is very easy. If you think Logic won, then for "You" it did. Every DAW has won, to the eyes of the beholder. For me it's Protools, for you it's Logic, for another it's DP, for another Cubase/Nuendo, and on and on. There is no winner. Yes you can say which one holds a bigger piece of the pie, but who cares. If you love Logic, then it is the best thing in the world. Like Protools is for me.
Old 7th August 2008
  #40
Gear Addict
 
smashbrand's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
This is very easy. If you think Logic won, then for "You" it did. Every DAW has won, to the eyes of the beholder. For me it's Protools, for you it's Logic, for another it's DP, for another Cubase/Nuendo, and on and on. There is no winner. Yes you can say which one holds a bigger piece of the pie, but who cares. If you love Logic, then it is the best thing in the world. Like Protools is for me.
^^^ what he said. Its a tool. If you asked a construction worker which nail gun is the best, results will vary.

I LOVE logic for the midi, included soft synths, recording comps, etc.

BUT I love pro-tools for recording. Nothing else can take 12 tracks of drum mics as well, then use something as easy as beat detective to smooth out some fills.

For me each has a purpose. PT cannot touch Logic for the things I use Logic for. And vise versa for PT.
Old 7th August 2008
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Roger Starr's Avatar
 

This is all so much based on gossp. The only DAW that really won is PT (HD), they are the absolute industry standard. Almost all major studios and almost all true pro's use it. And further, the exact % of how many people in what type of business are using which DAW are all air gossip. No one knows...

Regards,

Roger
Old 7th August 2008
  #42
Gear Addict
 
smashbrand's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Starr View Post
The only DAW that really won is PT (HD), they are the absolute industry standard.
And Microsoft Internet Explorer is the "standard" browser if you look at pure numbers. Does not mean its the best by any means.

Digi was the first to bring out the DAW with one track recording capabilities vs going direct tape/edit. Pro's jumped on it and that IMO is what gave PT their market share. Its great and will always be a fantastic tool if Digi keeps up with technology. I think over time, that market share will shift to a mixture of DAW's as native computing power increases and new generation recording engineers mature. (young enthusiasts that are using new age DAWS to include PT, logic, etc). A handful COTS tools will be developed that allow easy and cheap ways to share session files between any DAW host. That will close the gap on a studio HAVING to run PT, etc.

Kind of how the younger generation is starting to bite into the IE market share with browsers like Firefox. Yet old school (35+) PC users are comfortable with IE and have no inclination of a new learning curve.

Its kind of a bad comparison (DAW vs Browser) but it illustrates my opinion. I also think its great because it forces companies to stay on top of trends and technology giving the consumer choices. Companies cannot just sit back and be happy with their product..........they have to always be in innovation mode.
Old 7th August 2008
  #43
Lives for gear
 
B-San's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I said it before and I will say it again:

The only reason Logic is getting so much attention is the fact that it is FREE if you are willing to steal it online.

The Mac is now the dongle.
LULZ
Old 7th August 2008
  #44
Gear Addict
 
smashbrand's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-San View Post
LULZ
X3.
Old 7th August 2008
  #45
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joenovice View Post
Man I hope so. DP has always been a strong program but 5 was a nightmare; especially if you work with WAVES plugins.
The Waves 6 plugs are supposed to work flawlessly in DP6 now. Don't use Waves myself though.

DP is great Went from it from Cubase years ago. But was in Logic land for a while when I ended up with only intel macs and DP wasn't intelready... Logic 8 seemed a bit in the right direction and pretty fine for songwriting with loops etc. But for recording bands/real musicians in the studio and audio editing etc I would never use Logic. Also so much weird things happening for no appearent reason it seems in Logic. DP just works as one expects it to! DP was in a dark park with DP4-5 but started to get back on track with DP5.1 and DP6 is really great! When the initial small bugs (as with most .0 software) get iron out it gonna rule!
Old 7th August 2008
  #46
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

i prefer the workflow and editing on Cubase4 over Logic 8...even on my mac. The bundled synths in Logic are better, but i have NI Komplete anyway.
Old 7th August 2008
  #47
Gear Nut
If Pro Tools could have the MIDI interface of Logic, i would probably dump Logic and just use PT - and it stands, I use both for different types of projects. I won't touch MIDI in Pro Tools except for something very basic.
Old 7th August 2008
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swirlyd View Post
If Pro Tools could have the MIDI interface of Logic, i would probably dump Logic and just use PT - and it stands, I use both for different types of projects. I won't touch MIDI in Pro Tools except for something very basic.
just out of curiuosity, what do you hate about PT midi and what do you like about Logic midi?

I like the way the matrix window looks in Logic but i don't like that it doesn't automatically show you all the notes on the track, only the region that you double clicked on. I know you can select them all but that is cumbersome often if you have a large score going.

I do like the way that in pro tools you can select a portion of midi, hit zoom toggle ("e") and you immediately have that in view and can also see other midi tracks beside it and scroll along the whole track without clicking on various regions.

I also like PT's midi quantize menu. Its easy to change strength of quantize and randomness. I still have trouble doing this with logic, randomness anyway. the strength is the "q" or something in logic, right? PT's menu is very similar to DP's which is very thorough as well.

I'm curious to know why PT is hated for midi so much (post 7.3). And on the other side of that coin, i'm wondering if I am missing something amazing when dealing with midi in Logic.
Old 7th August 2008
  #49
Lives for gear
 
NoVi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joenovice View Post
The whole concept of dongles is only a hassel for people who want to steal software.

I've got 1 iLok and 1 syncrosoft key with a total of 30 authorizations. Each authorization took me all of 30 seconds to enact. If your time is too valuable to put forth that effort then you should be buying studio time instead of studio software.

If things break my licesnes are backed up online and can be downloaded to a new key. S.I.M.P.L.E.

.....unless you're a thief. Then dongles are "the man" preventing you from "being creative."
If every software developer would use iLok or Syncrosoft then indeed it wouldn't be so difficult. Yet with my recent migration from a G5 to Intel based Mac it took me a bizarre amount of time to get all authorizations correct again.
Old 7th August 2008
  #50
Lives for gear
 
code 10's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Starr View Post
This is all so much based on gossp. The only DAW that really won is PT (HD), they are the absolute industry standard. Almost all major studios and almost all true pro's use it. And further, the exact % of how many people in what type of business are using which DAW are all air gossip. No one knows...

Regards,

Roger
Doubt that very much, am sure the % of DAW users globally using Logic would be much higher than Pro Tools, just a case of affordability.

Pro Tools, a quickly dying dog for the majority.
Old 7th August 2008
  #51
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi View Post
If every software developer would use iLok or Syncrosoft then indeed it wouldn't be so difficult. Yet with my recent migration from a G5 to Intel based Mac it took me a bizarre amount of time to get all authorizations correct again.
And why is that not APPLE's fault?

It bugs me that every Apple OS update (which usually causes ass-loads of problems for DAW users) soils the reputation of application developers. From Digi to Spectasonics to hardware.... Apple fans scream bloddy murder on forums because things like iLok of their go-to program don't work with the latest and greatest Apple OS update.
Old 7th August 2008
  #52
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8tron View Post
just out of curiuosity, what do you hate about PT midi and what do you like about Logic midi?

I like the way the matrix window looks in Logic but i don't like that it doesn't automatically show you all the notes on the track, only the region that you double clicked on. I know you can select them all but that is cumbersome often if you have a large score going.

I do like the way that in pro tools you can select a portion of midi, hit zoom toggle ("e") and you immediately have that in view and can also see other midi tracks beside it and scroll along the whole track without clicking on various regions.

I also like PT's midi quantize menu. Its easy to change strength of quantize and randomness. I still have trouble doing this with logic, randomness anyway. the strength is the "q" or something in logic, right? PT's menu is very similar to DP's which is very thorough as well.

I'm curious to know why PT is hated for midi so much (post 7.3). And on the other side of that coin, i'm wondering if I am missing something amazing when dealing with midi in Logic.
I hate PT MIDI because of the edit view (which I love for audio). I like having a main window that doesn't display every midi note and seperate MIDI editing windows. This way I can see my arrangment (all 80 tracks) on one screen and what I'm editing on the other. Or better yet... I can edit two midi parts in two different windows, on two different screens.

I also am not a big fan the PT quantize window. I much prefer to have a customized set of keyboard commands to toggle between my quantize settings. (Ctrl+Alt+7 = whole notes, Ctrl+Alt+6 = 1/2 notes, etc)

PT's edit and mixer widow duo is great for audio but I need more for sequencing; arrangment, list edit, piano edit, drum edit, and score edit.
Old 7th August 2008
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony--> View Post
Doubt that very much, am sure the % of DAW users globally using Logic would be much higher than Pro Tools, just a case of affordability.

Pro Tools, a quickly dying dog for the majority.
What???


[I don't use either one. So I don't got a dog in this fight but, unless things have really changed in the last few weeks, that certainly doest not fit what I know. Granted, there is a huge bump in Logic users since Apple bought it. But I don't think it's even number two in terms of established users.]
Old 7th August 2008
  #54
Lives for gear
 
gregohb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
jbuehler.
re dongles.

i simply refuse to use any product that uses one.
what i find interesting is technology was supposed to help people
peoples creativity. not inhibit it.
Logic only requires the dongle for installation. Then you can unplug it. Unfortunately, there are professional hackers who hack almost everything. Just do a search on the net for music software and you will see it being sold for $20 or on various warez sites. I was looking at Linplug Octpus recently and it was easier to find the cracks than legitimate resellers. I notified the company in fact but I am sure its no secret.
Old 7th August 2008
  #55
Lives for gear
 
gregohb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronique View Post
If you're a Logic user - Logic wins!
If you're a ProTools user - ProTools wins!
If you're a Sonar user - Sonar wins!
If you're a Cubase user - Cubase wi.. Oh no wait. Cubase fails.

They ALL have good and bad points...

Ive seen way more ProTools and Logic posts here stating major/minor problems, glitches, bugs, than any other DAW.. Although there are many more PT/Logic users i suppose..

stike

Thats true. Its a lot like using mac or windows. once you buy one and learn to use it, then you are reluctant to give up all your files and all the learning curves you have mastered, and go into uncharted territory. Logic is slightly easier now than it was, but there is a lot to learn. Once you have mastered it, its easier to put up with some quirks, occasional crashes/bugs, etc than to change to a whole new program with its own set of problems and limitations. I think the best thing about Logic is that it doesn't have as many limitations as most of the others. Also it has sort of a guarantee that it won't die - like Opcode Studio Vision or back in the DOS days Personal Composer.
Old 8th August 2008
  #56
Lives for gear
 
code 10's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
What???


[I don't use either one. So I don't got a dog in this fight but, unless things have really changed in the last few weeks, that certainly doest not fit what I know. Granted, there is a huge bump in Logic users since Apple bought it. But I don't think it's even number two in terms of established users.]
shrugs/

Have heard it said recently that in the U.K alone there are 100,000 home studios, if that is true then I'm pretty sure that there would be considerably *more* Logic users than Pro Tools users.

shrugs/
Old 8th August 2008
  #57
Lives for gear
 
sventvkg's Avatar
 

I've been on Pro Tools since Version 3 but just got into Logic a couple of weeks ago and I must say, I'm really digging it from a songwriter perspective. All the sounds are there, the plugs sound great, and with the templates, they really make it easy for you to dive in and get going. Just getting to used to the Logic way of doing things like editing and Comping is going to take time. Last night I was trying to comp different takes the Pro Tools way and it wasn't happening!! So, I cracked the manual and figured it out and it suprised me to find that it's actually easier, faster and more intuitive then comping takes in Pro Tools once you figure it out. I have 2 projects that i'm starting in Logic (not paying clients friends so I can afford to mess about!) and a new original project of my own. Haven't been on Pro Tools much the past year as I've been sketching all my Demo's in Garageband, recording through my Great River Peamps into it and now i'm in Logic.
Old 8th August 2008
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony--> View Post
shrugs/

Have heard it said recently that in the U.K alone there are 100,000 home studios, if that is true then I'm pretty sure that there would be considerably *more* Logic users than Pro Tools users.

shrugs/
I wouldn't be surprised, assuming we mean a beatbox and a computer and maybe a mic. Think about how many there are in the US, depending on where you draw what line.

But... do you really think they're all using Logic?


It'd be fascinating to see some use metrics. No doubt about it, Apple's purchase of Logic brought a flood of new users -- and their eventual makeover put a modern face on a powerful program; the price drop was smart, dropping their pro package $50 or so below Sonar's. And a couple hundred under Cubase's (right?)

Still, I think a few folks in this BB might be surprised that there are users of other DAWs out there and quite a few of them.
Old 8th August 2008
  #59
Hi,
For most tracking, mixing and post houses, Protools is still quite dominant.
At least on the west coast of the US. For people doing a lot of
virtual instruments / midi work, Logic has a very strong following and
is a lot easier to use than Protools for this type of work. PT has been
making slow but steady progress in the MIDI / Soft instrument area.
The AIR instruments are excellent, but the ones that come with Logic
are pretty good and are free.
Sonar 7 is a very good MIDI environment. Cubase is very solid as well.

So, I would say Logic has not "simply won" .. I would say they have a great
tool, a loyal following, but not a dominant market position compared to
Protools.

jeff
Old 8th August 2008
  #60
Lives for gear
 

Determining which daw is most popular is kind of weird. Especially if you go by simple distribution or bulk purchases.

While logics price cut makes it "cheap" it certainly isn't nearly the most affordable of the mainstream daw market.

$500 will get you Logic
$500 will get you an mbox with pro tools LE
$250 will get you a "generic" 2 channel interface and the lite versions of cubase and sonar.

Including an interface Logic is still a pricy option for ENTRY LEVEL recording.

Keep in mind this is just for the bare minimum, which is what most entry level consumers will be looking at.

Saying a DAW is better because of high sales is kind of funny because if entry level purchases are the largest % of sales then your basically saying that a DAW is best because a bunch of people who don't know what they are doing are buying it. Should we really care which DAW entry level recording artists are buying anyway? Or how popular a DAW is in any market? Maybe so though on specific markets. You can find trends and relate them to the feature set of a DAW. There is a reason a lot film composers use DP, a lot of electronic artists use Logic, and large recording studios use Pro Tools. They are all can be used to do all these, but their features seem to vaguely clump them into these categories. Its kind of interesting to me actually...

On a side note, if i like the way an artist is produced time and time again I'll check out what they use. So far I think I've found nearly every DAW accounted for in my top 10-20 artists.

kinda of went off on a few different directions there... sorry
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
ipd2a / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
14
time ago / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
25
Jules / Downloads, the future - Q+A forum with expert guests from CD Baby, Tunecore and Nimbit
7
C Heat / The Moan Zone
10
fuzzface777 / The Moan Zone
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump