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Help building new DAW.. Audio Interfaces
Old 4th August 2008
  #1
Gear Nut
Help building new DAW..

Hi!
I´ll be building a new DAW (PC) soon, and I´m trying to read up on what to get. Haven´t done this in a looong time (3 years) so I thought I´d ask you guys to help me build a new system. I´m thinking of going quad core and atleast 4 gig of RAM, since what I've heard XP only support 4Gb (right?). I´m running C4, 2 UAD-1, Focusrite Saffire 26i, Liquid Mix - so I figure I need 3 PCI and 3 PCI-e. I´d also like to be able to have 5-6 HD´s - is it worth going Sata 10000rpm, or should I stay with 7200rpm? What MB should I get etc.

Hope this can be interesting for a lot of people...

thx
Niklas
Old 5th August 2008
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

RAM maximums: Crucial FAQ - Answer
Old 5th August 2008
  #3
Gear Nut
Thx for the link, this clears things up!

/N
Old 5th August 2008
  #4
Gear Nut
This is what I´m thinking about so far - any suggestions to make it better?

MB: ASUS P5E3 X38 SOCKET 775 ATX

CPU: INTEL CORE 2 QUAD Q9450 2.6GHZ 12MB 1333MHZ S-775

CPU Fan: ARCTIC COOLING CPU-FLÄKT SOCKET775 FREEZER 7 PRO

HD: 2X SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 500GB 7200RPM SATA/300 32MB

RAM: CORSAIR 4GB (2X2GB) PC3-10600 1333MHZ DDR3

Tower: ANTEC P182B GUN METAL BLACK MIDITOWER ATX

PSU: ZALMAN NÄTDEL 600W-HP SILENT

Grafik: ASUS GEFORCE 7300GT SILENT 256MB HDTV DVI PCI-E


regards
Niklas
Old 6th August 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
If you can afford it I would buy 10,000 RPM drives. They tend to be better in every application but can especially make a difference if you are streaming samples (ie VSTi romplers).

4GB of RAM should be plenty unless you're doing something crazy. I'm running 4GB right now and can push 40 simultanious tracks of sample-playback VSTi (Atmosphere, EWQL, etc). I've hit some projects that have a total of 80 channles of VSTi and aside from adjusting my hardware buffer settings I've got no problems.
Old 6th August 2008
  #6
Gear Nut
Thx for the suggestion!
Does 10000rpm HD´s cause more noise?

What do you guys thing of the Agere firewire chip? Does it work or is it a pain in the ass
Any suggestions of a MB with a TI chip with the same prestanda as the one I´m thinkinhg about?

/N
Old 6th August 2008
  #7
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
I've read from one other user that the VelociRaptor has a slight "high-frequency whine."

Other than that, they aren't noise monsters like old SCSI drives.

I also have to say that if you plan to use Firewire for audio it BETTER BE the TI chip. Even if that means losing on another feature. Everywhere you read people recommend using ONLY the TI. Better safe than sorry.
Old 6th August 2008
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by domus View Post
Thx for the suggestion!
Does 10000rpm HD´s cause more noise?

What do you guys thing of the Agere firewire chip? Does it work or is it a pain in the ass
Any suggestions of a MB with a TI chip with the same prestanda as the one I´m thinkinhg about?

/N

do NOT waste your money on any 10k drives even the velociraptor..

we benchmarked the raptor against the new seagate 320G perpendicular.
the only thing the raptor had going for it was seek times.

the agere will not work well with firewire interfaces..

Asus sucks
if you going to do DDR3 then get DDR3 1600 CL7 minimum or you are no faster than DDR2 800

also X48 instead of X38

Scott
ADK
Old 6th August 2008
  #9
Gear Nut
Thx!
Ok, so I´ve updated some stuff, here´s the new list:

MB: Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6 (TI-chip)

CPU: INTEL CORE 2 QUAD Q9450 2.6GHZ 12MB 1333MHZ S-775

CPU Fan: ARCTIC COOLING CPU-FLÄKT SOCKET775 FREEZER 7 PRO

HD: 2X SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 500GB 7200RPM SATA/300 32MB

RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB DDR3 PC12800 1600MHZ (2X2GB)

Tower: ANTEC P182B GUN METAL BLACK MIDITOWER ATX

PSU: ZALMAN NÄTDEL 600W-HP SILENT

Grafik: ASUS GEFORCE 7300GT SILENT 256MB HDTV DVI PCI-E

better?

/N
Old 6th August 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 

better yes
one last comment
with the Nvidia (gigabyte) fanless 8600 dual DVI Dual Link being so cheap thats the video card i would get
that way you can drive any 2 lcds you may ever buy...
plus its good for newer waves plugins that need open GL
or if you ever do any video editing...

Scott
Old 6th August 2008
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Ladia - Audeum's Avatar
 

Smile

Hi !

My recommendation is to use Intel original board rather than 3rd party manufacturers that are just using Intel chipsets. Improving, Stability, relaibility, performance and compatibility. Just my 2 cents.

Take look at ZALMAN cooling products for quiet operation of your CPU.

Consider using a smaller HDD for your OS, one platter HDD like Seagate 80 GB has better overall failure ratings and slightly quicker seek time.

I'd also recommend using fanless NX 8500 GT EH videocard that will allow you to connect 2 monitors in dual display mode plus has connectivity for TV out in case you'd ever need it.

What OS are you considering to put on the system ? XP, Vista ?
Whatever it is, make sure that you are choosing the best support scenario for your audio interface, DAW software and programs.
Optimize your OS accordingly for the best performance and stability.

Feel free to contact me in case of any questions

Have fun !
Old 6th August 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia - Audeum View Post
Hi !

My recommendation is to use Intel original board rather than 3rd party manufacturers that are just using Intel chipsets. Improving, Stability, relaibility, performance and compatibility. Just my 2 cents.

sorry but i strongly disagree.

Dp35DP: was great then intel broke it (bios memory remapping)
known issues with UADs
known issues with 4gig ram and nvidia vieo cards
some issues are now fixed....however...

X38: not a single stick of ram sold is validated on that board by intel.
most DDR3 requires 1.8v or higher.
X38 defualt is 1.5v they do not warrnty anything above 1.5v or support anything above 1.5V
while it does have setting for increasing voltage even at 1.9v 4 sticks of ram is unstable.
(DDR 3 1600 with CL7 settings) and use of 4 sticks required settring the ram to very loose timings (CL9) or downclocked to DDR3 1333 using 1600 sticks.
even attempitng the use of DDR3 1800/2000 offered no improvement.

even with Intels highest boards (x38) the bios setting are cripled compared to Gigabyte and others.

i used Intel from the 965/975 up until they broke the DP35...
now only the X48 is 1/2 way decent.

now for a budget lite to medium use the DP35 or the new 45 is ok as long as you know the limitations and compatibility issues

i see you still have a link to your website in your sig....

Scott
ADK
Old 6th August 2008
  #13
Gear Nut
Thx for your input! I´ll continue my quest tomorrow

regards
Niklas
Old 6th August 2008
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post

.... trolling?

Scott
ADK

you have some nerve. it's ok for you to hawk every forum for a chance to plug your wares, justified by your helpful advice. But when a competitor does the same thing, you call them a troll?

@ Ladia - Audeum -

I'm glad you are here. You at least balance the computer assembler bullies out with your niceness. While I dislike the biased opinions that sales people bring to forums, you seem very nice and friendly, so it's at least pleasant and non confrontational (like the bullies ). And you are not here pretending to helpful for no self-promotion. I like that you are upfront about who / what you are.

And BTW-your site looks really nice and pro and your warranty seems very good (i.e if a hard drive has a 5 year warranty, you offer a 5 year warranty on that part).

So don't listen to these bullies. They may or may not assemble computers well enough, but their ethics and personalities.....
Old 6th August 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 
thedigitalgod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
do NOT waste your money on any 10k drives even the velociraptor..

we benchmarked the raptor against the new seagate 320G perpendicular.
the only thing the raptor had going for it was seek times.

the agere will not work well with firewire interfaces..

Asus sucks
if you going to do DDR3 then get DDR3 1600 CL7 minimum or you are no faster than DDR2 800

also X48 instead of X38

Scott
ADK
what makes you say asus sucks? just curious.
Old 6th August 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh 7 View Post
you have some nerve...... their ethics and personalities.....
+1

No need to flame-up. We're just talking about hardware.

From my POV, ASUS mobos have taken a dive. I've had much better success with Intel and Gigabit recently. My main machine is still based on a D975bx2 and I've had ZERO problems with my UAD, RME, or software apps.

Bottom line... find the best thing you can afford and build it. Then start making music.

For the record... Your personal tests may show that 10,000RPM drives aren't "worth it" but most major manufactures of sample based VSTi (EWQL) state IN PRINT that 10,000RPM drives perform better.

don't come unglued..... I'm only stating this for the sake of objectivity.
Old 6th August 2008
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh 7 View Post
you have some nerve. it's ok for you to hawk every forum for a chance to plug your wares, justified by your helpful advice. But when a competitor does the same thing, you call them a troll?
i dont plug my wares unless asked directly
i do post useful info such as i had in this thread and help people without trying to sell something, do you see me plugginf anything?
99% of my posts are as such...
99% of his are sales pitch..

i DO NOT have a link to my website in my SIG...
that is trolling...

George (the mod)
even told me i could put my link in my sig....
my reply
"thanks but i feel its unprofessional, and reeks of trolling"

nice try Huge once again at my heels... its pointless...

but your right it was uncalled for... the link thing bothers me..
Old 6th August 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joenovice View Post
+1

No need to flame-up. We're just talking about hardware.

From my POV, ASUS mobos have taken a dive. I've had much better success with Intel and Gigabit recently. My main machine is still based on a D975bx2 and I've had ZERO problems with my UAD, RME, or software apps.
the 975 was a stellar board! and i agree 100% about Asus, i have posted numerous times about their decline in quality.

Quote:


For the record... Your personal tests may show that 10,000RPM drives aren't "worth it" but most major manufactures of sample based VSTi (EWQL) state IN PRINT that 10,000RPM drives perform better.

don't come unglued..... I'm only stating this for the sake of objectivity.
i think you will find that is old info at this point...
unless you are still using Gigastudio...

most samples are far more memory loading than disk streaming.
the better and ideal way with say something as large as VSL is to
have 3-4 seperate HDDs and split up the libarary

we used to recommend the Raptors awhile back for samples especially giga
then the regular sata 300 perpendiculars passed them in ability.
the new raptor is nice but its not all that and a bag of chips..
it did not improve our ability for large samples.

Scott
ADK
Old 6th August 2008
  #19
Lives for gear
 
spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
most samples are far more memory loading than disk streaming.
the better and ideal way with say something as large as VSL is to
have 3-4 seperate HDDs and split up the libarary

we used to recommend the Raptors awhile back for samples especially giga
then the regular sata 300 perpendiculars passed them in ability.
the new raptor is nice but its not all that and a bag of chips..
it did not improve our ability for large samples.

Scott
ADK
+2

You obviously know your hardware and I differ to first hand experience. Question: Why and how do perpendiculars outperform 10k or 15k drives?
Read/Write time? The only technical advantage I was aware of was the amount of data stored within a square-mm, thus making higher capacity drives.

Aside from seek-time (which is a plus for the 10k) it would seem that all formats are restricted by bus bandwidth, making the 10k's and perpendicular's equal excluding price-per-GB.
Old 6th August 2008
  #20
Gear Head
 
Muggins's Avatar
 

7200 rpm drives

Why not get smaller matched drives and set up RAID 0 ?
Old 6th August 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joenovice View Post
+2

You obviously know your hardware and I differ to first hand experience. Question: Why and how do perpendiculars outperform 10k or 15k drives?
Read/Write time? The only technical advantage I was aware of was the amount of data stored within a square-mm, thus making higher capacity drives.

Aside from seek-time (which is a plus for the 10k) it would seem that all formats are restricted by bus bandwidth, making the 10k's and perpendicular's equal excluding price-per-GB.

1 reason is the 32 meg cache
since samples are preloaded into ram it makes sense that a large cache on the HDD would be better.
the larger cache offsets the seek time lag so the prefetch has a larger cache to work with and not have to rely as much on how fast the drive head can find the data

2 perpendicular tech: i cant do justice on the perpendicular explanation and why its better to google it.

as far as bus bandwidth.. that a complete seperate subject..
i can tell you that no drive can do its theoretical bandwidth.
nor can any controller.

i have seen huge differences in chipset to chipset ICH vs ICH and others
and even more drastic with real raid array cards.

EG: the main mobo we use now vs what we were using has a 25% increase in drive ability thruput.
and that is without a raid card.

we are constantly testing stuff like this.

lastly i am not knocking the v-raptor at all, its a stellar drive, but for most applications its not worth the 3x more.

Scott
ADK
Old 6th August 2008
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post

i dont plug my wares unless asked directly
See, the way you just lie and manipulate the truth to serve your own purposes (and it matters a lot more when you recommend gear) is what makes me take the time out to protest and point it out. You do it quite a bit.

like here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
HI,
google "digital audio workstation"

Scott
in response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyflo View Post
HEY GS,

Me and my crew decided to get a new computer for the production side of our studio, and I dont know where to find a machine with XP on it, I kno dell used to offer that, but it isnt there no more for some reason.....Anybody recommend any computer to get, meaning processing power and all that good stuff
I don't see how you where "asked directly". And this is one quick example. I don't feel like taking the time to find the many more.

So when you get all self righteous for anyone daring to point out your occasional less than trustful behavior, it's irritating enough for me to bother to post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post

i do post useful info such as i had in this thread and help people without trying to sell something, do you see me plugginf anything?
99% of my posts are as such...
99% of his are sales pitch..
I do agree with that. And I said it before. it's a balance. Take the good advice with the sales pitch. I don't agree with your numbers. Truthfully, it's probably closer to 80% free help and 20% sales pitch from you in particular. Not bad. I really don't even care. I only care when you mislead people to serve your own sales needs.

It's the authoritative, insulting, and just all around 'daw bully'-ism that motivates me to post.

Which is why I like this attitude:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joenovice View Post

No need to flame-up. We're just talking about hardware.


don't come unglued..... I'm only stating this for the sake of objectivity.
keep it like this and you may never see me post again.
Old 6th August 2008
  #23
Gear Addict
 
Electronique's Avatar
 

My ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe rocks..

ps. Just because some (many) people advertise thier business in thier signatures here doent make them any worse than people who dont..
Old 6th August 2008
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
Why not get smaller matched drives and set up RAID 0 ?
Raid 0 doesn't really help much imo when the system has to consistently seek different streams ie multitrack audio. If you were playing large/long files ie video then there is something to be gained. What it does do is increase your risk of failure. If either drive fails then you are out of business and have too rely on recovering from ghost or other backup means.
Old 6th August 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
sorry but i strongly disagree.

Dp35DP: was great then intel broke it (bios memory remapping)
known issues with UADs
known issues with 4gig ram and nvidia vieo cards
some issues are now fixed....however...

X38: not a single stick of ram sold is validated on that board by intel.
most DDR3 requires 1.8v or higher.
X38 defualt is 1.5v they do not warrnty anything above 1.5v or support anything above 1.5V
while it does have setting for increasing voltage even at 1.9v 4 sticks of ram is unstable.
(DDR 3 1600 with CL7 settings) and use of 4 sticks required settring the ram to very loose timings (CL9) or downclocked to DDR3 1333 using 1600 sticks.
even attempitng the use of DDR3 1800/2000 offered no improvement.

even with Intels highest boards (x38) the bios setting are cripled compared to Gigabyte and others.

i used Intel from the 965/975 up until they broke the DP35...
now only the X48 is 1/2 way decent.

now for a budget lite to medium use the DP35 or the new 45 is ok as long as you know the limitations and compatibility issues

i see you still have a link to your website in your sig.... trolling?

Scott
ADK
I would support using intel boards as well. I am running a Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX board and it has been, well, perfect. Not so much as a slow bootup.

Granted, I don't O/C or get cute with anything of that nature. With 4gb of ram and good drives a quadcore is more than enough horsepower for what I do
Old 6th August 2008
  #26
Gear Nut
Damn, seems that something got stuck up the ass (not that it can´t be a good thing sometimes - thumbs up!), but seriously, we´re just trying to build a really good workstation here...

Thx for all suggestions, it´s great and makes it a lot easier than starting from scratch. Keep it coming, I owe you guys...

peace
Niklas
Old 6th August 2008
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
I would support using intel boards as well. I am running a Intel BOXD975XBX2KR LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX board and it has been, well, perfect. Not so much as a slow bootup.

Granted, I don't O/C or get cute with anything of that nature. With 4gb of ram and good drives a quadcore is more than enough horsepower for what I do
yes as i posted the 975XBX was a great board...
the 965 was as well.
so was the DP35 for 4 months...
right now present intel boards are having alot of issues...

rather that than Asus

to he guy with the AMD Asus yes that was a good board.. bit old now..

Scott
Old 6th August 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Huge,

""""I only care when you mislead people to serve your own sales needs""""

i have never mis-lead anyone for any reason selfish or not....

"""google "digital audio workstation""""

give me a break that brings you to many companies/options when you do so...

7 paid for ad's

and me (real search) with others following..

putting a link to my site and saying to quote adium


""""I'm not here to pursue any sales but for consideration please visit audeum.com

I'm the designer and Engineer of Audeum Custom Digital Workstations. We fully customize and tweak our systems for Audio recording, matching your the needs of your audio project, environment and requirements. We use Windows XP and all quiet audio approved world highest quality components.

Feel free to contact me with any questions.
__________________
Ladia - Audeum

Custom Digital Audio Workstations
Audeum Custom Digital Audio Workstations """""

now thats trolling....

the only time i post about me is when it comes to laptops
and then i list 5-6 others.... who have TI chipset.

Scott
Old 6th August 2008
  #29
Gear Addict
 
Electronique's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
to he guy with the AMD Asus yes that was a good board.. bit old now..

Scott
Ha yeah true.. I do need an upgrade.
But it supports AMDs latest.. Doesnt it??

Scott. One question.
What are Phenoms like? Say compared to my AM2 4200+

Old 6th August 2008
  #30
Lives for gear
 

HI,
i believe with a bios update it does support Phenom.

to be honest while i was once the only DAW builder who did build AMD and was critized for it.. and a huge AMD fan... (other did build AMD later)
i no longer do.

the phenom would give you a nice boot... its not an Intel Penryn but a big gain from your dual core and saved the whole new board, reinstall etc...

if you had to buy a new mobo then i would only recommend Intel...

Scott
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