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RIAA curve plug-in?
Old 8th November 2004
  #1
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max cooper's Avatar
 

RIAA curve plug-in?

I thought I read something about an RIAA curve plug-in. Searched the site and didn't find anything. Google etc. weren't successful either.

Anyone know of one? RTAS/Mac would be the ticket here.

I'd think this would exist because of people creating loops from LPs.

I'm working on archiving some of my endless LP collection to CD for travelling, driving, etc. I can certainly get there via the tape output from my phono preamp. I've got enough level going in, just need the curve.
Old 8th November 2004
  #2
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Re: RIAA curve plug-in?

Quote:
Originally posted by max cooper
I thought I read something about an RIAA curve plug-in. Searched the site and didn't find anything. Google etc. weren't successful either.

Anyone know of one? RTAS/Mac would be the ticket here.

I'd think this would exist because of people creating loops from LPs.

I'm working on archiving some of my endless LP collection to CD for travelling, driving, etc. I can certainly get there via the tape output from my phono preamp. I've got enough level going in, just need the curve.
Ditto
I'd like Digidesign to make some small "problem-solvers",
that uses i.e like 1% per instance.
It could be plugs like RIIA curve adjuster and Phase switch.


ruudman
Old 8th November 2004
  #3
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

There's a preset for the WAVES Q-10 that's pretty accurate according to my test records.
Old 8th November 2004
  #4
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ttauri's Avatar
 

Why would using a plug-in be more desirable than using a hardware phono pre?

Peece,
T. Tauri
Old 9th November 2004
  #5
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Not more desirable, but I'd sure like PT to have handy widgets.

But then again; MP3/MP4 option-full OMF-Machine Control
and so on should be included in a PRO tool..


ruudman
Old 9th November 2004
  #6
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Bob Olhsson:

Thanks for the info. One of the guys at the studio has that plugin on his computer so I was able to check it out.

ttauri:

No benefit, especially since I have a really nice phono preamp. I was getting a really "fun" sound (not to mention enough level) out of my API 512s and all it was lacking was the RIAA curve.
Old 11th November 2004
  #7
Lives for gear
the question is
is a de-RIAA expected to be non-linear phase?
the analog curcuit diagram looks rather simple.

If I had the problem, I would get the original curve (with a good scale), and then draw it with a curve-eq. (voxengo, ...)
then feed with a wobbled test signal and tune, until it is within narrow specs.
Old 11th November 2004
  #8
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

In theory, the best overall phase response would come from the exact inverse of the circuit that was used in the cutting system. This obviously wouldn't be likely to be a linear phase network.
Old 11th November 2004
  #9
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matucha's Avatar
...RIAA, I thought about it many times, because I have bad phono pre (in the cheap technics amp) and nice Manley Dual Mono Mic Pre. I tried to compensate manualy by EQ, but there were to way much boosting... so I quit (it didn't sound good).

Waves Q10 > not the best EQ around.

Maybe some plugin manufacturer could research about that and give us plugin with several curves, options... perhaps Voxengo???
Old 11th November 2004
  #10
Lives for gear
one thing is for sure.
there are different types of pickups, and they need to be plugged each in a particular preamp that gives them a load WITHIN SPECS. also signal voltage is for most types SO VERY low, that you can get a nice S/N ratio only with a specialized preamp.
for professional purpose, there are delicate laser sensor systems, that draw a digital map of the vinyl surface, and then compute the sound that underlies the curves. so they can care for dust and scratched surfaces also.
Old 11th November 2004
  #11
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max cooper's Avatar
 

If you mean laser turntables, I've seen that new one (The ELP) and for 13,500, I'll pass.

I do use a Moving Coil cartridge on my "nice" turntable, and that means those cheap little phono pres won't work anyway.

And yes, there are different gain requirements for different phono pickups.
Old 13th November 2004
  #12
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by matucha

Waves Q10 > not the best EQ around.
Depends on "best" for what purpose. RIAA is not where you want to add character.
Old 13th November 2004
  #13
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matucha's Avatar
agree... but I always thought Q10 sounds metalic... not the best character ;-). Well, I left Q10 behind a long time ago, so maybe I should retry...

Technicaly... there is no way of obtaining PRO results from MIC/LINE preamp and using digital filter in computer for recording from vinyl?
Old 13th November 2004
  #14
Lives for gear
from a "national semiconductor" catalogue book, I took an application example for a low noise chip for RIAA preamps, soldered and glued together this 15 buck thingy, and built it directly into the record player. there is very little hum and less noise, than comes from the vinyl itself.
this plugs well into any sound card. let the rest be done by waves denoiser and decrackler...
anything better would be _much_ more expensive.
(ask me for sound examples...)

just look at the signal voltage specs (cartridge and preamp), and imagine, that there is an enormous bass boost in the RIAA.
I don't say it can't work...
anyway, pro is pro.
Old 13th November 2004
  #15
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Depends on what you mean by "pro" results.

The first thing you have to do is load the pickup cartridge properly no matter if you are using analog or digital eq. The times I tried it, the Q-10 handily beat out a $3000 audiophile phono preamp! This was probably because it was more accurate. I tried some other eqs but was never able to pull the response in as accurately. Getting the frequency response accurate makes a much bigger difference in transparency than the particular colors of any somewhat transparent equalizer.

The Q-10 can seem "tinny" if you are boosting the top-end but often the "tinniness" turns out to be fragile 16 bit recordings made with early, cheap A to D converters.
Old 14th November 2004
  #16
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matucha's Avatar
interesting... ;-), thanks
Old 14th November 2004
  #17
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max cooper's Avatar
 

A little FYI thingy is that LP surface noise is greatly magnified by poor precision in the tonearm's bearings. Any resonances in the tonearm to plinth system can cause a small crackle or pop to increase many times. A couple of guys who I work with often bring vinyl over to transfer stuff to digital on my system, and they can't believe how much quieter their records sound on my LP12.

Not good for scratching, though, as they're belt drive
Old 28th October 2015
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
There's a preset for the WAVES Q-10 that's pretty accurate according to my test records.
If anyone reads this ancient thread: I don't see such a preset in Q-10, and tech support at WAVES seems clueless about it; pointing me to their noise reduction products.
Does anyone have this preset, and if so can you put up a screenshot of the settings?
Old 28th October 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidFell View Post
If anyone reads this ancient thread: I don't see such a preset in Q-10, and tech support at WAVES seems clueless about it; pointing me to their noise reduction products.
Does anyone have this preset, and if so can you put up a screenshot of the settings?
I don't know about Q10, but if you are able to use VST or 32bit AU, check this dedicated RIAA plugin
Audio Plug-Ins

Michal
Old 28th October 2015
  #20
Gear Addict
 
Beechwood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
I don't know about Q10, but if you are able to use VST or 32bit AU, check this dedicated RIAA plugin
Audio Plug-Ins

Michal
I use that one. The company's called vacuumsound. It does works as 64bit AU.

Quite like their ADT plug too.
Old 28th October 2015
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechwood View Post
It does works as 64bit AU.
Good catch, I've made mistake in my post, VST version is 32bit only and AU is 32/64bit..

Michal
Old 28th October 2015
  #22
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I just recalled, that SoX can be possibly also used for RIAA curve correction outside of DAW.. SoX - Sound eXchange | HomePage
Something like..
sox -G input.wav output-riaa.wav -b 24 riaa dither

It will produce 24 bit wav file with applied RIAA correction, calculation is done with 32bit precision and output is dithered down to fixed 24 bit, -G switch assure, no clipping in effect chain occurs, because peaks will be evaluated at the end of processing chain and when over will be detected, whole file will be attenuated accordingly before final conversion to fixed sample format.
I use it similarly for deemphasis of old ripped CDs.. only deemph command instead of riaa is used in that case.

Michal
Old 1st February 2020
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
noisyneil's Avatar
 

Does anyone have a copy of Vacuumsound's free RIAA plugin (AU)? Seems they've taken it off the website.
Old 1st February 2020
  #24
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Does anyone have a copy of Vacuumsound's free RIAA plugin (AU)? Seems they've taken it off the website.
It's still available on the nullmedium site.


http://www.nullmedium.de/dev/audioplugins/
Old 1st February 2020
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
noisyneil's Avatar
 

Ah, I didn't realise that was the same thing. I tried it and couldn't get it to appear in Logic. Have you had any luck with it?
Old 1st February 2020
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Ah, I didn't realise that was the same thing. I tried it and couldn't get it to appear in Logic. Have you had any luck with it?
Plugin works normally and it's visible in Logic at Mojave, when you expand the archive and place the component to /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components.

After that.. try log out and log in to the system, possibly restart the machine, when it won't appear.
I've just replied about similar thing a moment ago in the other thread.

Michal
Attached Thumbnails
RIAA curve plug-in?-riaa.png  
Old 2nd February 2020
  #27
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noisyneil's Avatar
 

Legend! I always forget that some plugins need a little restart/logout shunt. Thanks!!!
Old 2nd February 2020
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
Legend! I always forget that some plugins need a little restart/logout shunt. Thanks!!!
You're welcome! Glad it worked for you.

Michal
Old 2nd May 2020
  #29
Here for the gear
 

I have Ozone 8. It has a feature that is I think called EQ matching or something similar. I imagine it's sort of like those convolution reverb type of deals.

Anyway I was wondering if running pink noise out and back into the interface through my phono preamp would give me a similar curve. Thoughts?

I'm in the same boat as someone who posted on here. I have a few really nice microphone preamps. And a semi decent phono preamp.

It would be handy for me to be able to go straight into the pre.
Old 4th May 2020
  #30
Lives for gear
you need not EQ-match the RIAA curve because it is fully documented and easy to find - unless you have a very great sounding preamp that does something extra.
but while we are on that, it might be useful to measure the ringing of the needle and coil, mine is around 11-12k so I am notching that off a little bit.

beware dispersion, if you want to transfer older vinyls that have no digital processing. you will hear it on the hihat and percussion, or on classic strings and woodwind sounds.
(dispersion is another word for transient/phase smearing, pre-ringing etc. that comes from larger FFT buffers, or FIR filters.)
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