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A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer
Old 4th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3691
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo ➑️
Nope sorry...the only reason I can think of is that it's standard MIDI implementation for charts like that.
Were you able to get your DAW to "learn" each of those or is this something you need to enter manually someway?
Hey DJ ... Thanks for the help.

I Thought I mentioned it earlier, but I'm using a program with no midi learn where you have to enter the CC#s directly in a field for each variable. It's the Emulator X3 soft sampler standalone where you use the 16 patch cord controls for each preset. I'd put that software on the shelf for about a year while I was upgrading my studio and integrating the ZED 16.

I'd forgotten how incredible Emulator X3 is. I'm now planning to use it's 'Synthswipe' feature to autosample all my favorite presets off my hardware synths. Once it captures the other synth's sounds at as many velocity levels and note ranges as you want it has a killer preset feature where you can load up the original E-mu factory presets off the E-mu sound banks, save the patch cord setups from the ones you like as new patch cord presets and then simply apply those presets to your newly sampled sounds. You can just keep doing it till you find something you really like ... and then go in and fine tune it. There are four or five subparts of the synth engine that have separate presets, including envelopes, filters, patch cords, etc.

With the ZED I can now sample the effects outs from the hardware separately for killer stacked multisetup presets.

I'd only add that I have lots and lots of synth and software manuals and they all provide charts in decimal ... although some have additional columns with hexidecimal (now that I look.)

Prado
Old 5th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3692
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djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by prado escondido ➑️
Hey DJ ... Thanks for the help.

I Thought I mentioned it earlier, but I'm using a program with no midi learn where you have to enter the CC#s directly in a field for each variable. It's the Emulator X3 soft sampler standalone where you use the 16 patch cord controls for each preset. I'd put that software on the shelf for about a year while I was upgrading my studio and integrating the ZED 16.

I'd forgotten how incredible Emulator X3 is. I'm now planning to use it's 'Synthswipe' feature to autosample all my favorite presets off my hardware synths. Once it captures the other synth's sounds at as many velocity levels and note ranges as you want it has a killer preset feature where you can load up the original E-mu factory presets off the E-mu sound banks, save the patch cord setups from the ones you like as new patch cord presets and then simply apply those presets to your newly sampled sounds. You can just keep doing it till you find something you really like ... and then go in and fine tune it. There are four or five subparts of the synth engine that have separate presets, including envelopes, filters, patch cords, etc.

With the ZED I can now sample the effects outs from the hardware separately for killer stacked multisetup presets.

I'd only add that I have lots and lots of synth and software manuals and they all provide charts in decimal ... although some have additional columns with hexidecimal (now that I look.)

Prado
It should be quite easy to convert the hex to decimal and load those values into the correct fields.
In fact I believe mitzush gave you the decimal numbers in his post where Reason reported using decimal values.
i.e. CC01-CC20 and CC101-CC112 (Continuous Control) for the faders and rotary knobs which is 01h-10h and 65h-70h with a data control range of (1-127d which would be 00h-7Fh) per the ZED chart.
Having software that can be manually loaded can be better in some ways as it can be more flexible.
The "learn" feature that a lot of the DAW's and softsynth have is really just a convenient entry method and saves you the step of typing values into a template.
MIDI control parameters can be quite complex and stringed together to create many options but that is beyond the simple implementation that the ZED provides.
There are tons of books and websites that go into MIDI anything you want to know or do with it.
The limitations come from the controller capabilities itself.
The ZED has only 3 basic MIDI commands (MMC, CC and Note On/Off).

The buttons like MMC are a little different from CC as they only transmit strictly "on/off" status commands with ID#'s CC01-CC08 each switch and then status data of 7Fh CC127 (on state) and 00h CC00 (off state)....that might be backwards but I believe the 7F is "on".
You can also find hex to decimal or binary conversion calculators on Google as well to help determining the correct number you need to load.
Hope that helps and good luck!
Old 5th September 2012
  #3693
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
DJ ...

Yes, I'd already figured it out ... I'm not up for a midi theory crash course, LOL.

I could have also just hooked up midi ox and figured it out. More a grouse about the way the information was presented in the ZED manual. What I'd call, "unnecessarily technical," as there was an alternative simpler method all understand.

I like the principle of 'Ocam's razor.'

My bent is the practical/ pragmatic side of things, midi included.

Prado
Old 5th September 2012
  #3694
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djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My apologies...bad habits. TMI...
I'm glad it's working for you....carry on!
Old 6th September 2012
  #3695
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AdamB420's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My ZED R16 came into my pro audio dealer today, I am hoping to go in and check it out soon. If it all feels good in the store I will likely be taking one home

Some questions if I may:

* What is a good FireWire chipset to have for stable use? I currentl have an AsRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 motherboard.
* Has anyone setup the R16 with SAMPLITUDE? Transport working?
* Will a desk I pickup today still have the FireWire grounding issue? How hard is it to fix this yourself?

Been about 16 years since I bought a new console!
Old 6th September 2012
  #3696
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AdamB420's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bump for:

* Has anyone setup the R16 with SAMPLITUDE? Transport working?
Old 6th September 2012
  #3697
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
@ SNJ Studio

Yes, I'm using it everyday. The ZED's transport works fine in Samp 11 and Pro X.
Old 6th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3698
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNJ Studio ➑️

* What is a good FireWire chipset to have for stable use? I currentl have an AsRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 motherboard.

* Will a desk I pickup today still have the FireWire grounding issue? How hard is it to fix this yourself?
Texas Instruments is the chip set you want for firewire compatibility.

I doubt it very much. I got mine two years ago and it didn't have the grounding issue. Unless it's been sitting in a warehouse for 3 years there's little chance.
Old 7th September 2012
  #3699
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AdamB420's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the replies. I have collected my desk and it is working 100% with the firewire audio. I just cannot seem to get Samplitude to see any of the MIDI (MIDI gets there but not controlling anything). But to know someone is getting love with Samplitude gives me confidence I can research it more and get something going. I am using Pro X suite.
Old 7th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3700
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Cody's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Got my walnut cheeks for the Zed this morning. I was just about to run out the the door, but I took a minute (literally) to install them, and snapped a couple horrible blurry iPhone photos.

Very gorgeous!!! Huge improvement over the plastic cheeks.

I also got the dust cover. It is very high quality, and looks great!

So - huge props to mixingtable.com on their products. Well made, look great, and shipped safe and sound.
Attached Thumbnails
A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer-325343_10151134430243675_189423445_o.jpg   A&H Zed R16 Firewire Mixer-241370_10151134432853675_386959237_o.jpg  
Old 7th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3701
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody ➑️
Got my walnut cheeks for the Zed this morning. I was just about to run out the the door, but I took a minute (literally) to install them, and snapped a couple horrible blurry iPhone photos.

Very gorgeous!!! Huge improvement over the plastic cheeks.

I also got the dust cover. It is very high quality, and looks great!

So - huge props to mixingtable.com on their products. Well made, look great, and shipped safe and sound.
Happy you like them Cody! Looking great!

btw... I'll be at PLASA 2012 on Sunday. Allen and Heath will have a few of our products at their stand if anyone is curious.

Cheers, Pete
Old 8th September 2012
  #3702
Here for the gear
 
Lee Flier's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry if I haven't read through the whole thread but - where'd you get the dust cover? I could use one.

EDIT: Oh nevermind, I found the site. Just ordered a dust cover!
Old 8th September 2012
  #3703
Gear Maniac
 
spain75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Meterboard for the R16?

Or a ZedR16 MK II?

In my dreams or in the future?

What you say, Mike? Any plans at all?
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3704
Here for the gear
 
Lee Flier's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spain75 ➑️
Meterboard for the R16?

Or a ZedR16 MK II?

In my dreams or in the future?

What you say, Mike? Any plans at all?
Yeah, I would have loved a GS-R24, but it turned out to simply be way out of my price range.

An R16 with moving faders would be cool, though.
Old 8th September 2012
  #3705
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade ➑️
Just saw it announced on Harmony-central:

ZED SERIES :: ALLEN & HEATH

Looks like the best feature set for my needs....if I remember correctly even the flagship Onyx doesn't offer that many FW channels to the computer. This one has 16(ch)+2(master) analog to FW, and additional 16 ADAT inputs switchable for a total 26 simultaneous streams in (and 26 outs) If I understand the initial specs listed on the website correctly heh

It supposedly uses the JetPll thingy by TC for its jitter reduction....so I suspect the "audio interface" part of the mixer has external involvements outside A&H heh

And I like the MIDI knobs, faders and transport section built in, maybe it could be mapped to plugin EQs etc so we can do away with the mouse and keyboard for such things

And it could supposedly be used as a live mixer as well

Last questions linger, what is the price...and is it made in china? (just kidding )
how does one post a new question on gearslutz?
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3706
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jeronimo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Flier ➑️
Yeah, I would have loved a GS-R24, but it turned out to simply be way out of my price range.

An R16 with moving faders would be cool, though.
Same thing here...
What I want, is a GSR24... but out of my range...
I want 100mm touch-sensitive moving faders and 6 AUXs LOL
Just kidding.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3707
Gear Maniac
 
spain75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
The price gap between the r16 and r24 makes me wanna.. well.. work more i suppose!

Maybe something in between..

One question:

Is it possible to send the LR mix/master out through external preamps and back via the firewire into daw?
Old 9th September 2012
  #3708
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voidar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, you can send ch. 17/18 out pre master inserts and record that back to ch. 17/18 post master fader..
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3709
Gear Maniac
 
spain75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Xellent

I have a liquid saffire with different preamp emulations and a drawmer 1968 stereo compressor. Been thinking about using these on the master inserts. Anyone else doing this?
Old 9th September 2012
  #3710
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voidar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Lot's of people have been using preamps on their masters.
Old 9th September 2012
  #3711
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jeronimo's Avatar
stereo bus insert is pre 17/18 inputs, which are pre 17/18 outs... does it make any sense? LOL
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3712
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djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo ➑️
stereo bus insert is pre 17/18 inputs, which are pre 17/18 outs... does it make any sense? LOL
I believe those inserts are on the main stereo buss "pre" master faders, so this would be a good place to put your "2 buss" processing, compressor or EQ...as a final processed mixdown. You could also use the Main Outputs (+4dbu post fader) and route that to any piece of outboard processing gear you like and then route the output of that processing gear back into any of the 16 channel strips. You need to careful with monitoring because of feedback and of course watching all your gain staging and levels.

The nice thing is if you setup a DAW track assigned to "17/18" as input to your DAW you'll notice that it goes into the ADC "post fader", so it's the same place as using those main outputs. Any processing you use via the main insert points will be recorded in your DAW.
Once that's recorded into your DAW, that track via the DAC output return can be assigned in your DAW to 17/18 (if you want) where it will be mixed directly back into another mixdown....OR......
you CAN assign that recorded 17/18 track to output to ANY channel strip (1-16) and start all over again.
The real beauty and flexibility of the ZEDR16 is the ability to form groups of recorded tracks like say a drum group (up to 16 mono tracks) mix those, tweak your pan placements, use outboard gear inserted on any of those channels (mono or stereo), record that as a 2 track drum master group (again using 17/18) more processing on that 2 buss master, then bring that back into the board again from your DAW as a complete stereo pair. Add overdubs if you like.
The great thing is it's all pure analog summing which is where you get the sweeter sound. Especially if you drive those main outputs into the yellow just before clipping.

With 16 full channels strips that are fully analog sitting there you can do that for every group of instruments you can think of.....each time creating group master tracks. Then at final mixdown of your song you have an 8 group stereo channels again with all the EQ and tweaking you need to create your final master recording.
Even after doing all that you could continue this process ad infinitum recording that 17/18 analog sum each time into your DAW.
When you use your DAW's unlimited track count and perfect noiseless recording capabilities like a tape deck there's really no end to how many times you could repeat that process.
That's what makes it so extremely powerful, you just need to plan out your arrangements and groups and process in stages.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3713
Gear Maniac
 
spain75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo ➑️
I believe those inserts are on the main stereo buss "pre" master faders, so this would be a good place to put your "2 buss" processing, compressor or EQ...as a final processed mixdown. You could also use the Main Outputs (+4dbu post fader) and route that to any piece of outboard processing gear you like and then route the output of that processing gear back into any of the 16 channel strips. You need to careful with monitoring because of feedback and of course watching all your gain staging and levels.

The nice thing is if you setup a DAW track assigned to "17/18" as input to your DAW you'll notice that it goes into the ADC "post fader", so it's the same place as using those main outputs. Any processing you use via the main insert points will be recorded in your DAW.
Once that's recorded into your DAW, that track via the DAC output return can be assigned in your DAW to 17/18 (if you want) where it will be mixed directly back into another mixdown....OR......
you CAN assign that recorded 17/18 track to output to ANY channel strip (1-16) and start all over again.
The real beauty and flexibility of the ZEDR16 is the ability to form groups of recorded tracks like say a drum group (up to 16 mono tracks) mix those, tweak your pan placements, use outboard gear inserted on any of those channels (mono or stereo), record that as a 2 track drum master group (again using 17/18) more processing on that 2 buss master, then bring that back into the board again from your DAW as a complete stereo pair. Add overdubs if you like.
The great thing is it's all pure analog summing which is where you get the sweeter sound. Especially if you drive those main outputs into the yellow just before clipping.

With 16 full channels strips that are fully analog sitting there you can do that for every group of instruments you can think of.....each time creating group master tracks. Then at final mixdown of your song you have an 8 group stereo channels again with all the EQ and tweaking you need to create your final master recording.
Even after doing all that you could continue this process ad infinitum recording that 17/18 analog sum each time into your DAW.
When you use your DAW's unlimited track count and perfect noiseless recording capabilities like a tape deck there's really no end to how many times you could repeat that process.
That's what makes it so extremely powerful, you just need to plan out your arrangements and groups and process in stages.
Thanks!!
Old 9th September 2012
  #3714
Gear Maniac
 
spain75's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Does this mean that its possible to use an external a/d converter and route the main output xlr connections back into the daw?

The internal a/d converter is bypassed when using the main output, so the signal from the main output hasnt been converted to digital, right?
Old 9th September 2012
  #3715
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voidar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The main outputs (2 track outs) are an analog sum of all the analog inputs or the 18 firewire/ADAT returns (DAC).

So yes, you could put a 3rd party ADC on there and put it back into the DAW via the R16 ADAT ports i.e.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3716
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voidar ➑️
The main outputs (2 track outs) are an analog sum of all the analog inputs or the 18 firewire/ADAT returns (DAC).

So yes, you could put a 3rd party ADC on there and put it back into the DAW via the R16 ADAT ports i.e.
This confuses me? (Not that it's all that hard to do!)

If the main outs are analog and you convert them through another ADC, you are saying ADAT Out from the ADC to ADAT IN of the ZED16 and then the ZED 16 carries that ADAT input via FW to the DAW?

Prado
Old 9th September 2012
  #3717
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voidar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry for being confusing. I am not being very academic .

This really only applies if you use the R16 in firewire mode.

In firewire mode, for 44K1 and 48K, you have a spare ADAT IO port for a total of 26 inputs and outputs. You could feed a 3rd party ADC with the XLR and send this to DAW via this spare ADAT port.

Maybe if you read the manual you will see what should be possible to do. The charts are pretty nice.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3718
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voidar ➑️
Sorry for being confusing. I am not being very academic .

This really only applies if you use the R16 in firewire mode.

In firewire mode, for 44K1 and 48K, you have a spare ADAT IO port for a total of 26 inputs and outputs. You could feed a 3rd party ADC with the XLR and send this to DAW via this spare ADAT port.

Maybe if you read the manual you will see what should be possible to do. The charts are pretty nice.
Now, now ... I have read the manual. And I think I now understand you, since you added the "This only applies" part. When you say "to DAW via this spare ADAT port,' you are referring to sending the the R16 ADAT Input via FW to the DAW, right?

Since I only use ADAT and not FW, I wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.

Prado
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3719
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djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spain75 ➑️
Does this mean that its possible to use an external a/d converter and route the main output xlr connections back into the daw?
The internal a/d converter is bypassed when using the main output, so the signal from the main output hasnt been converted to digital, right?

Yes, technically you could use any of the ZED's outputs into some other A/D converter. The 2Trk2 Out, Studio Out 1/2, Aux 1-4 Out all could be used that way. You just need to set levels properly (gain staging), use balanced or unbalanced cabling depending on the outputs and figure out a way to get your digital signal from your external converter into your computer.
Both the 2TRK1 (Main Out) and 2TRK2 are also a good place to hookup an analog 2 track mastering deck, DSD mastering deck, DAT recorder etc, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prado escondido ➑️
This confuses me? (Not that it's all that hard to do!)
If the main outs are analog and you convert them through another ADC, you are saying ADAT Out from the ADC to ADAT IN of the ZED16 and then the ZED 16 carries that ADAT input via FW to the DAW?
Prado
Any ADAT signal 1-8 (in/out) plugged into the back of the ZED are transmitted over the FW bus to your computer...yes.
If you want all 18 mono channels and all 8 ADAT channels to stream into your DAW via FW you can only use 44.1khz or 48khz sample rate.

This of course has nothing to do with using the analog outputs on the ZED.
Don't forget the ZED can be operated completely as a live analog console without any need for a computer or converters or digital anything...

Now if you had an external A/D converter that used ADAT as it's digital interface then you could:
Route any ZED output to that and run the ADAT back into the ZED.
Those feeds would show up in your DAW as ADAT 1-8.
Again anytime you do loop backs like that you need to watch for feedback loops.

I hope you don't mind a bit of a rant here but for what the ZED is capable of doing and to really get the most use out of it...IMHO...ALL the inserts points should be run to a patchbay. This gives you every channel available for outboard gear.
Yes they are unbalanced but very few consoles ever use balanced inserts. As long as your not trying to go 100 feet. After all everything being sent around inside a mixer or signal processing unit is single ended unbalanced. But those are the places to insert outboard gear.
Most people record and track dry....your looking for clean, quiet pure signal....you get your levels and gain matched up dead on and you record it.....Now it's in your DAW (your tape deck). Never record processed tracks going in...you'll never be able to change it later!
All of that "effect" stuff should be done on a separate artist headphone monitor buss if that's what's wanted or needed. There are 2 Studio Outs for exactly that.
So once you've tracked and recorded everything...you sit down in front of the desk and start mixing. That's when you use your inserts, aux buss, EQ. pan and outboard gear. You can then easily process ANY track with any outboard gear.
Then ALL the outputs should be run to a patchbay. This gives you multiple analog output "buss sends" that can be used with more outboard gear.
These can each be recorded back into your DAW (tape deck) and returned back to the console.
Now if for some crazy reason you don't like the preamps on the ZED....(I think they are fantastic BTW) and think you just must bypass them, then get something you think is better and just record and track that directly into your computer. You don't need the ZED to do that. Again your looking for the cleanest path going in. The ZED can do all that pretty well all by itself IMHO. Once it's on tape (DAW) you can do whatever you like to it after that.
Same thing with this conversion bypassing nonsense....If you want to track, convert and record using different flavors of A/D or D/A just do it separately.
At some point if you find you just have to or need to get something more "high end" then go buy something more expensive and better than the ZED.
Keep it around and use it for live gigs....
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3720
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo ➑️
Yes, technically you could use any of the ZED's outputs into some other A/D converter. ...I hope you don't mind a bit of a rant here but for what the ZED is capable of doing and to really get the most use out of it...IMHO...ALL the inserts points should be run to a patchbay. after that. ...
Yea and amen, Brother DJ!

Now, if Satan still whispers to me down in my secret heart of hearts, that I really want a GS-R24M ... when I cross over Jordan, do I still get to go to Heaven?

Prado
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