Why no RTAS to VST/AU adapter?
Old 28th May 2008
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Why no RTAS to VST/AU adapter?

I know there is a VST to RTAS adapter, and VST to au. Oddly I guess there is no AU to VST. (though that doesn't apply to me) I wonder if this is a logistical issue with digi hardware, or rather a copyright thing. Or does the market just not have a need. I would love to use Massey and Mcdsp plugs in Nuendo. I knew that TDM would "work" in theory with logic before apples takeover, but now there seems to be no two way bridge.

Any knowledge would be much appreciated. BTW this is my first thread, I really enjoy using this forum, so much info from such a large and knowledgeable (albeit opinionated) group is really something I've grown to appreciate! thumbsup

Regards,
Chebon

EDIT: I found my answer after thinking maybe i SHOULD make sure this hasn't been discussed. (New google search is vastly superior) Yes indeed digi and patent laws equal a sadder market for those wishing a more flexible ITB environment. Still thanks all!

Last edited by jlcl; 28th May 2008 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: Being a tool
Old 28th May 2008
  #2
Gear interested
 

Because rtas is digidesign's format if you convert them to vst you'll be stealing plugins that digidesign made just for pro tools. But i wish could use xpand! in fl.
Old 28th May 2008
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
 

How does that apply to something like Massey plug ins? Digidesign doesn't own them. I paid for them and would like to use them with Logic... and I think Massey wouldn't mind me using them with Logic either (not to speak for him but I'm guessing.)
Old 28th May 2008
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dannygold's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcl View Post
I know there is a VST to RTAS adapter, and VST to au. Oddly I guess there is no AU to VST. (though that doesn't apply to me) I wonder if this is a logistical issue with digi hardware, or rather a copyright thing. Or does the market just not have a need. I would love to use Massey and Mcdsp plugs in Nuendo. I knew that TDM would "work" in theory with logic before apples takeover, but now there seems to be no two way bridge.

Any knowledge would be much appreciated. BTW this is my first thread, I really enjoy using this forum, so much info from such a large and knowledgeable (albeit opinionated) group is really something I've grown to appreciate! thumbsup

Regards,
Chebon

EDIT: I found my answer after thinking maybe i SHOULD make sure this hasn't been discussed. (New google search is vastly superior) Yes indeed digi and patent laws equal a sadder market for those wishing a more flexible ITB environment. Still thanks all!
Two words. EVIL EMPIRE
Old 28th May 2008
  #5
Gear addict
 

I would loooooooove McDsp for VST. I use Pro Tools too but I've become a huge Cubase fan.

Junk
Old 28th May 2008
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
How does that apply to something like Massey plug ins? Digidesign doesn't own them.
Because RTAS is Digidesigns format. In order to obtain the SDK for RTAS/TDM (so you know how to code the plugins in that format) you must agree to and sign a licensing agreement agreeing to their terms which forbids porting to other hosts. Unless Digidesign changes their mind on the terms of SDK agreement, there will never be an RTAS to VST adapter, or at least a legal one. You could theoretically learn how to code plugins, buy the SDK and code one for yourself privately, but it would still be illegal technically.
Old 29th May 2008
  #7
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Because RTAS is Digidesigns format. In order to obtain the SDK for RTAS/TDM (so you know how to code the plugins in that format) you must agree to and sign a licensing agreement agreeing to their terms which forbids porting to other hosts. Unless Digidesign changes their mind on the terms of SDK agreement, there will never be an RTAS to VST adapter, or at least a legal one. You could theoretically learn how to code plugins, buy the SDK and code one for yourself privately, but it would still be illegal technically.
Theoretically, could you legally reverse engineer code for RTAS. As in the same way cracks are able to, or lost software (dead companies) can be stripped of algorithms and re-used.

SIDENOTE (Off topic kinda) Couldn't you make a REWIRE program to port audio between nuendo and cubase/nuendo. i would think in the same vein to be able to use a non digi interface via rewire and ASIO for all (pc)(mac??) and route rewire channels as audio.

All this just to defeat Rome a little bit earlier.
Old 29th May 2008
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcl View Post
Theoretically, could you legally reverse engineer code for RTAS. As in the same way cracks are able to, or lost software (dead companies) can be stripped of algorithms and re-used.
Well, cracks aren't legal either are they? And technically, even if an algorhythm is owned by a dead company, someone still owns it and you can't use it without their permission.

if you did it for own use, never gave it to anyone else, and never tried to sell it...well digi are hardly going to take you to court over it are they?

but FXpansion couldn't sell one in the same way they do their VST-RTAS adapter.
Old 29th May 2008
  #9
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slaves666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Because RTAS is Digidesigns format. In order to obtain the SDK for RTAS/TDM (so you know how to code the plugins in that format) you must agree to and sign a licensing agreement agreeing to their terms which forbids porting to other hosts. Unless Digidesign changes their mind on the terms of SDK agreement, there will never be an RTAS to VST adapter, or at least a legal one. You could theoretically learn how to code plugins, buy the SDK and code one for yourself privately, but it would still be illegal technically.
What if you can do it without the SDK? Could they sue you? If so, on what grounds?

We're talking about a porting, or communicating software.....you're not tampering with something you shouldn't......It seems the same as freeware plugins......I'll bet some don't use SDK's to develop their software.

It's just too bad that RTAS and VST can't get along. :(
Old 29th May 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaves666 View Post
What if you can do it without the SDK? Could they sue you? If so, on what grounds?
It has nothing to do with lawsuits. Unless you had the SDK you'd have no idea what you were programming. The SDK isn't a liscense but the blueprint for how the plugins function.
Quote:

We're talking about a porting, or communicating software.....you're not tampering with something you shouldn't......
In order to port something you'd have to have the SDK or you'd be lost.
Quote:
It seems the same as freeware plugins......I'll bet some don't use SDK's to develop their software.
Most freeware plugins are VST and Steinberg offers their SDK free of charge but also has some sort of liscensing agreement(obviously not as strict as Digi's). As for free RTAS plugins, the developer had to pay for that SDK so he would know how to code them.
Quote:
It's just too bad that RTAS and VST can't get along. :(
Actually they can as there is a VST to RTAS adapter already. The only thing stopping an RTAS to VST adapter is Digi's liscensing agreement. It all comes down to that. If Digi changed their mind Angus from FXpansion would have one out today, but he did say on his forum section at KVR that it would be a lot harder(for reasons he didn't get into) and the results not worth it(you'd have to ask him why).
Old 31st May 2008
  #11
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
SDK aside

With the mobile IO from metric halo. Could you use it as a patch bay between the two programs. Is it possible to have the RTAS fw returns simultaneously used, if possible the solution could be a as if having three consoles (mix busses and sound possibilities).

But if you were completely dedicated and didnt have the sdk, and figured out the blueprint, would there be a lawsuit for making a product?
Old 31st May 2008
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcl View Post
But if you were completely dedicated and didnt have the sdk, and figured out the blueprint, would there be a lawsuit for making a product?
Yes. At the very least it would be "cease and desist" letters I should think.
Old 31st May 2008
  #13
Gear nut
 

"Two words. EVIL EMPIRE"


Yep... BUT if it was not for Samplitude I would cave in and buy it. Pro tools is damn good but there policies are ********. I am so glad I not longer have to deal with them.
Old 14th October 2009
  #14
Gear nut
 
pwpi's Avatar
 

Logic Plugs Converted to RTAS

I love most of Logic's plugins but would love to use them in Pro Tools. Especially some of the synths and the EXS of course. I haven't yet heard of a way to convert AU to RTAS. You'd think that if one can convert VST to RTAS and VST to AU there'd be a way of converting AU to VST then to RTAS?

Hurry up and wait I suppose.

Cheers GearS !
Old 14th October 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
MonkeyAdam's Avatar
 

Many people don't realize that Digital Performer will let you use digi hardware. If you are running DAE (digi) then you can also use RTAS plugins with DP. But only if the hardware is there. Just throwin' that out there.
Old 15th October 2009
  #16
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyAdam View Post
Many people don't realize that Digital Performer will let you use digi hardware. If you are running DAE (digi) then you can also use RTAS plugins with DP. But only if the hardware is there. Just throwin' that out there.
That's the same as running DAE inside Logic as well... both TDM and AU usable....
Old 24th October 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 

I just wanted a couple of Bomb Factory plugins, but noooo
Old 24th October 2009
  #18
Gear addict
 
lettenmusic's Avatar
 

Want to use Digi's plugins? well.. find some $$$...unless you just get an LE system for RTAS. It seems ridiculous how much TDM system hardware costs, if they were smarter they woudl find a way to bring the price down on that stuff.
Old 28th January 2010
  #19
Gear nut
 
pwpi's Avatar
 

I'd just love to use some of the Logic plugs in Pro Tools. Delay Designer, Space Designer, ESX24, etc. They're great plugs and it's shame to have them dedicated to one DAW,
Old 28th January 2010
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwpi View Post
I'd just love to use some of the Logic plugs in Pro Tools. Delay Designer, Space Designer, ESX24, etc. They're great plugs and it's shame to have them dedicated to one DAW,
They're also (in some cases) built into Logic - there's no separate "plugin" as such, any more than you can use PT's elastic audio plugin on Logic.
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