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THE Prism Orpheus THREAD!!!!!
Old 27th July 2016
  #481
Gear Head
 

I have a couple of Orpheii daisy chained together and they sound incredible as everyone says. Its a shame they are so idiosyncratic with the set up.

I run the latest version of Logic with a new iMac, and I'm wondering if anyone else gets clicks and pops at random intervals whilst recording with their orpheus? The guys at prism are v helpful with the trouble shooting but it's fair to say we are having problems getting to the bottom of it. Both units do it, connected together or not.

Is the price for Prism-quality conversion really removing glitches after every recording!!??! Am I alone??!?!
Old 27th July 2016
  #482
Gear Addict
 
cemski's Avatar
To be honest, the sound is great, but as a firewire interface its a complete nightmare.
I bought a faster computer, i bought new software. Nothing helped. You never know when the bitch is dropping some glitches or even bigger droputs.
I cannot afford to loose clients because of a glitch i didn't notice.
I have sold the Orpheus and am now back to RME for interfaceing.
It's sooooooooo relaxing and professional.

Sorry to tell.
Old 28th July 2016
  #483
Gear Head
 

this is what I feared. Such a shame for such pricey product!

i'm thinking of traversing across to Symphony MK2 soon as I can stomach a change. Boringggggg
Old 30th September 2016
  #484
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollytheoctopus View Post
I have a couple of Orpheii daisy chained together and they sound incredible as everyone says. Its a shame they are so idiosyncratic with the set up.

I run the latest version of Logic with a new iMac, and I'm wondering if anyone else gets clicks and pops at random intervals whilst recording with their orpheus? The guys at prism are v helpful with the trouble shooting but it's fair to say we are having problems getting to the bottom of it. Both units do it, connected together or not.

Is the price for Prism-quality conversion really removing glitches after every recording!!??! Am I alone??!?!
Hello,
You are not alone. Same problem here. When using sound samples (spitfire audio for example) there are a lot of drops during the recording process , but when I bounce the file, there is no drop on the Wave or MP3 files. Same problem when I record audio.

I send a mail to orpheus, they never contact me to resolve the problem.

Not cool.
Old 30th September 2016
  #485
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvesrecording View Post
I send a mail to orpheus, they never contact me to resolve the problem.

Sounds familiar. They stopped responding to my emails about ADAT latency of 178-220 samples, after months of excuses for not getting back to me.
Old 19th December 2016
  #486
Gear Addict
 
rectape's Avatar
I tried the titan in my studio and I send it back imediately. Ok it's cool to have better latency, usb2 and routing possibility but it is not sounding as good as the orpheus. Even if it looks like the orpheus and Prism say they didn't change a lot except the comunication protocol, by hear I was thinking it was an rme or some prosumer card. Not as "rich" souding, not the same level of detail. What matters for me in the end is the sound. I'm on win 10 and don't experiment any glitches at all. Latency for mixing mastering is ok. Will buy a second unit to get 16out for analog suming. If you want same or better conversion with low latency and 16 out you'll be in the 7000€+ price range.
Old 21st December 2016
  #487
Here for the gear
 

Are the glitches or drops on a PC too? Or is it only a Mac (or Logic?) problem?
Old 27th April 2017
  #488
Hey people
really would like some help here if possible!

I have the Prism and while I can record ok at sometimes up to 96k and 24bit Ive noticed all i get is crackles on higher sample rates and even at the mentioned sample rate get drop outs here and there. Ive tried various laptops and even a Expresscard with TI Chip

The onboard firewire on one of the laptops the Dell M6600 does playback at 192k and gets a drop out here and there but it will not record for long at 192.
the expresscard gets me recording ok at 44 and 16bit on the other laptop.

Im about to buy a second expresscard with a XIO 2213A chip which is FW800, hoping it will fix the problems
No matter what latency I chose or buffer there is no change, im almost certain the problem is in the firewire protocol/transfer.

anyone know if that other expresscard might fix the prob ?
Otherwise I might have to think about selling and buying an RME which I don't want to do as quality suffer, unless I can find a nice preamp for vocals to plug into the RME, Avalon is nice but bit too expensive! maybe I can DIY a class-a pre
Old 2nd August 2017
  #489
Well I had the Prism working well but after a lot of deciding, I decided to ditch the Prism and the laptop and all computer recording and go down the crazy path less traveled and I think ill be using a Computer-less setup.
Old 13th February 2018
  #490
Currently looking for one for sale can't find any on here, or perhaps I should try another device in 2018 ? lol
Old 13th February 2018
  #491
I've sold all my Orpheuses but have 1 Prism Atlas available. PM if interested.
Old 6th March 2018
  #492
Im just wondering, is the latency an issue on the ADAT out of the Orpheus ? I noticed some people saying 178-220 samples or something like that not sure what that is in ms. but its said that the latency on ADAT is not so good and I would like to use the Orpheus with a Yamaha AW2400 any idea if the latency would be too much ?

Old 22nd March 2018
  #493
Here for the gear
 
Nightwatch's Avatar
 

Selling my Orpheus PM me, it's compleet with box and cabels no scratches, good as new! Moving to Thunderbolt device.
Old 23rd May 2018
  #494
Lives for gear
have the clicking issues with the orpheus been resolved yet ... ? just curious ... i was about to get one (or look into DSD possibilities too)
Old 25th May 2018
  #495
An opportunity or a warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsmith View Post
have the clicking issues with the orpheus been resolved yet ... ? just curious ... i was about to get one (or look into DSD possibilities too)
This is a mature product. No new drivers or firmware have been released for nearly seven years. If you want a reliable recording rig based on the Orpheus, all your attention should be on optimizing the computer hardware and software.

It appears that both TI and VIA Firewire chips can be made to work with the Orpheus. What matters is the computer's interrupt tree structure and what else sits on the same PCIe lane on the motherboard. Be very careful about what network chipsets you use: some are not at all audio-friendly. Also, any badly-behaved background service or driver can screw you over, even if the hardware is right.

Although Firewire is sensitive to these kinds of issues, one can also experience similar problems with other interfaces. Because of this, Prism came up with a technology called Verifile that puts a pseudorandom "signature" into the converter's dither signal that can be used to verify that no frames were dropped between the converter and your hard drive. Unfortunately, this is only available for the Titan, Atlas and Lyra, not the Orpheus.

Since off-the shelf computers no longer have built-in Firewire interfaces, prices for used Orpheus boxes have dropped substantially. Depending on your level of technical savvy (or your computer integrator's), this is either an opportunity to score a superb converter set, or a warning that you should stay away.

My studio is based on a pair of Orpheus boxes, as is a friend's. We both had ADK Computers build us dedicated studio PC's. Mine has an Ivy Bridge processor; his is several years newer. He purchased it from ADK after failing to get a very high-end HP machine to work for audio. We have had no stability issues with these rigs, even after upgrading to Windows 10. I will run these boxes until the computer dies and then re-evaluate.

Summary: It's all about having a robust audio PC. If you do (and you refrain from installing all manner of useless [email protected] on it), you can be very happy with the Orpheus. If you don't, then don't expect Prism Sound to help you fix it. They are not in the business of computer support.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 25th May 2018
  #496
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
This is a mature product. No new drivers or firmware have been released for nearly seven years. If you want a reliable recording rig based on the Orpheus, all your attention should be on optimizing the computer hardware and software.

It appears that both TI and VIA Firewire chips can be made to work with the Orpheus. What matters is the computer's interrupt tree structure and what else sits on the same PCIe lane on the motherboard. Be very careful about what network chipsets you use: some are not at all audio-friendly. Also, any badly-behaved background service or driver can screw you over, even if the hardware is right.

Although Firewire is sensitive to these kinds of issues, one can also experience similar problems with other interfaces. Because of this, Prism came up with a technology called Verifile that puts a pseudorandom "signature" into the converter's dither signal that can be used to verify that no frames were dropped between the converter and your hard drive. Unfortunately, this is only available for the Titan, Atlas and Lyra, not the Orpheus.

Since off-the shelf computers no longer have built-in Firewire interfaces, prices for used Orpheus boxes have dropped substantially. Depending on your level of technical savvy (or your computer integrator's), this is either an opportunity to score a superb converter set, or a warning that you should stay away.

My studio is based on a pair of Orpheus boxes, as is a friend's. We both had ADK Computers build us dedicated studio PC's. Mine has an Ivy Bridge processor; his is several years newer. He purchased it from ADK after failing to get a very high-end HP machine to work for audio. We have had no stability issues with these rigs, even after upgrading to Windows 10. I will run these boxes until the computer dies and then re-evaluate.

Summary: It's all about having a robust audio PC. If you do (and you refrain from installing all manner of useless [email protected] on it), you can be very happy with the Orpheus. If you don't, then don't expect Prism Sound to help you fix it. They are not in the business of computer support.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
thanks for that explanation - though i am on an imac - i think that explains a lot for me. it appears that the orpheus does not seem to like it when there is competition or polling (if that's the term i'm thinking of) on the firewire bus. it may well be worth a try.
Old 25th May 2018
  #497
Lives for gear
 

I had an Orpheus for 5years. I am on a titan/hdx rig now.

The Orpheus ran stable and without problem continuously and from the start. I had it on a Mac Pro 2,1.

The most important thing is that it must be the only thing on the fw bus. No hardrives or other peripherals. Use usb for all those other things. With an iMac you should have no problem at all.

I used the Orpheus for many remotes on a 2007 white MacBook into pro tools 8 and later reaper with no issues. The key was putting hardrives and other connected devices on the usb bus and letting the Orpheus solely own the fw bus.
Old 29th May 2018
  #498
Lives for gear
I would like to ask a few Orpheus NOOB questions. I've only had a chance to work with mine for about an hour or two now ... just trying to learn the interface and software (yes I read the short manual provided and have SW installed etc)

when I am using the orpheus for summing (mixdown) - i HAVE to use the orpheus control panel for that? If i do it from Logic - won't it do the 'mixing' in the orpheus itself? or is it only from the computer? is there a setting for this?? It seems a bit silly to be forced to have to use a very different interface to do this in a way that won't (ergonomically) integrate with Logic ... (Scratching my head over this one)

I do not understand the main rotary volume encoder- it only seems to vary the monitoring levels by about 3db or so (?) (listening through headphones however)
Old 30th May 2018
  #499
@ Bitsmith ,

I fear you may a have a slight misconception: The Orpheus is a multi-channel converter, not a summing box. While it's true that it has some limited internal mixing capabilities, these are mostly intended to create low-latency foldback mixes when tracking. While it's possible to mix eight live inputs together with a pair of pre-recorded tracks and output the result on a pair of hardware outputs, the only way to mix together a full set of eight pre-recorded tracks inside the Orpheus is to utilize the headphone output, which is (IMO) the weakest function of the box. Leaving aside the quality of the headphone output circuitry, this simply replaces digital summing in your DAW with (probably lower-resolution) digital summing in the Orpheus. I see no advantage to that at all!

In order to do analog summing, you need to connect the eight outputs of the Orpheus to an external analog mixer. While this has become pretty trendy in recent years, I see no point of doing it unless your external mixer has a really excellent summing bus design. If all you have is a Mackie mixer or similar, I wouldn't bother. (Personally, I wouldn't bother anyway, but let's not derail this thread!)

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 30th May 2018
  #500
Lives for gear
yes i know - i meant 'summing' as in 'digital summing' of course (since the fashionable word is 'summing' it seems inconsistent not to use it for things digital too - but the manual seems to make rather a feature out of the control panel 'mixing' utility if i'm understanding it's use correctly - so it seemed worth investigating if a rather large PITA once you're used to doing it in Logic et. al.

since they bothered to build that 'mixer' interface it seemed to me as though there must be a really compelling advantage to do so ... so i figured it was a way of offloading the arithmetic to the orpheus ...

so you're saying there's no point in doing it outside of logic (in the orpheus control app) then ...?



Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
@ Bitsmith ,

I fear you may a have a slight misconception: The Orpheus is a multi-channel converter, not a summing box. While it's true that it has some limited internal mixing capabilities, these are mostly intended to create low-latency foldback mixes when tracking. While it's possible to mix eight live inputs together with a pair of pre-recorded tracks and output the result on a pair of hardware outputs, the only way to mix together a full set of eight pre-recorded tracks inside the Orpheus is to utilize the headphone output, which is (IMO) the weakest function of the box. Leaving aside the quality of the headphone output circuitry, this simply replaces digital summing in your DAW with (probably lower-resolution) digital summing in the Orpheus. I see no advantage to that at all!

In order to do analog summing, you need to connect the eight outputs of the Orpheus to an external analog mixer. While this has become pretty trendy in recent years, I see no point of doing it unless your external mixer has a really excellent summing bus design. If all you have is a Mackie mixer or similar, I wouldn't bother. (Personally, I wouldn't bother anyway, but let's not derail this thread!)

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

Last edited by Bitsmith; 30th May 2018 at 06:44 AM..
Old 30th May 2018
  #501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsmith View Post
since they bothered to build that 'mixer' interface it seemed to me as though there must be a really compelling advantage to do so ... so i figured it was a way of offloading the arithmetic to the orpheus ...

so you're saying there's no point in doing it outside of logic (in the orpheus control app) then ...?
The primary thing that the Orpheus mixer gives you is lower foldback latency when recording live tracks. I know nothing about the present numerical performance of Logic but, if it's like most DAW's today, it will be using floating-point math for mixing. I'd expect the Orpheus mixer to be done in fixed-point.

David
Old 18th August 2018
  #502
Here for the gear
 

"Cannot connect to Orpheus" - unplug it!

Had the same problem as an earlier poster so wanted to highlight this:

Quote:
But as of today, my macbook doesn't recognize my Orpheus anymore. I can run my synth through it with my macbook turned off, but when turned on, when I try initializing the Orpheus software, I get a popup saying: "Error: Cannot connect to Orpheus".
So what I just did now was unplug the power adaptor from the Orpheus and everything's back to normal.
Had the same experience on Windows.
I think the software install dialogue is a little misleading, says something like "turn off and on again" when they mean "unplug from power, then power up again"

Hope helpful, took some time to figure this out...
Old 18th August 2018
  #503
Lives for gear
Have had mine for almost 7 years now and we're still on our honeymoon. Paired up with my new Audeze LCD-X headphones it even got better. I really only use a few channels for mastering but I have used the pres in the past. They really are fantastic too!

Old 16th March 2019
  #504
I thought I would like to share my experiences, tips and tricks some measurements with you.
We are working since quite a while with 2 of the Prism Orpheus. I love their sound. However they are little "quirky" as a lot of people mentioned. So I really tried to find out how to connect them, how many channels you can get out of them, etc.
Our typical setup for remote recordings look like this:
- 2 x Prism Orpheus synced via FireWire (CSP) (this is already a little tricky, but the Prisms instructions help. Just make sure, that when you seperate them again, that you have the same sample rate on both devices before you connect them (you can store the configuration by turning them off and the on...) If you don't do this you are in hell with rebooting, pulling the plugs, hooking them up on another computer etc... this can take a whole day :-( and I experienced it several times...)
- 1 x ISA 428 MKII: with the ADAT 1 port in Prism A and the ADAT 2 Port in Prism B. It's synced via Wordclock. It is important to take the word clock out from the first Prism Orpheus
- 1 x Millennia HV3R with AES EBU card: Connected to the SPDIF on both Prisms (chanel ½ on Prism A and channel ¾ on Prism B). I connect the Millennia to the word clock out from the ISA 428MKii. (which is a little tricky as well because you have to configure the AD card with jumpers) The other 4 Channels I use just analog
- 1 x DAV BG8 for analog ins (Orpheus A)
- 1 x Millennia HV3 8 connect anlog to the ISA 428 MKii
So all together we have 28 channels of 96 kHz --> yes it works
BUT: sometimes it drives one crazy: Sometimes you have tot turn sample rate converision on sometimes not...But once it's set up. It does work.
To avoid all this hazzle I'm looking for a new high end Multichannel converter... A really nice guy told me, that daisy chaining the Prism is dangerous because they are not in sync. So today I tried to measure everything I could (which was very time consuming :-()
I measured how many samples the different inputs (analog A, AES A, ADAT A and analog B, AES B, ADAT B) where apart from each other. I was really shocked:
I measured it with needle impulse, white noise and several sine waves...
Within each group (e.g. anlog to anlog on the same Prism) there was a distance of 0 samples --> :-) but we've expected this
However between Analog and AES there was a lag of 5 samples on the same Prism. Between analog and ADAT it was - 4 samples
Between the Prisms it was even worse: Between analog A and analog B I had a distance of -18 samples, between AES B and analog A -16 samples and 4 Samples between ADAT b and analog A :-(
However this stayed completely stable. Is this bad? If you record white noise and mix these different tracks together you notice the comb filter effects right away. So it's a bad idea to do coincidence recordings when the mics are between two groups. For everything else I believe this is fine.
Then I wanted to know how "normal" wordclock synced device behave. And I found out out (RME to ISA) and I found out that this was even worse. But I just run one test....
So I'm on search for an new 32 channel high end AD converter
Old 16th March 2019
  #505
Never split stereo or 5-channel audio between boxes, no matter what brand of gear you use. Their PLL's will lock word clock edge to edge, but you can't be certain which edges will lock. That depends on the group delay of the PLL filters, and the better (more jitter-resistant) they are, the longer the group delay. So there is usually an offset of several clock periods.

Here are some application examples of what does and doesn't matter.
  • Anytime you've got two mics on the same source, use the same box
  • When micing up a drum kit, try to use the same box for everything. If you run out of channels, keep the close mics together and record the overheads and room mics on box 2.
  • In classical recording, the hall ambience mics can be on box 2 with no harm. So can spot mics, since you'll likely be delaying them against the main pair anyway.
  • Hardware inserts for a DAW mix should send from and return to the same box for any particular outboard unit. That way, your DAW's delay compensation won't need to change between mix sessions.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 18th March 2019
  #506
Here for the gear
 
futureplan's Avatar
 

Recently my Orpheus started giving random clicks and pops. Not sure why this is happening as I was using it without issues. Is it linked to the OS Mojave update? I have a MacPro running Cubase 10
Old 20th January 2020
  #507
Gear Head
 
Michel199's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rectape View Post
I tried the titan in my studio and I send it back imediately. Ok it's cool to have better latency, usb2 and routing possibility but it is not sounding as good as the orpheus. Even if it looks like the orpheus and Prism say they didn't change a lot except the comunication protocol, by hear I was thinking it was an rme or some prosumer card. Not as "rich" souding, not the same level of detail. What matters for me in the end is the sound. I'm on win 10 and don't experiment any glitches at all. Latency for mixing mastering is ok. Will buy a second unit to get 16out for analog suming. If you want same or better conversion with low latency and 16 out you'll be in the 7000€+ price range.
Hi,

I own an Orpheus and I wanted to maybe get a Titan for the USB easy use. I didn't know it was possible to chain 2 Orpheus together, and after seeing your post I'm glad that I didn't sold my beloved Orpheus for something more fancy. Since I'm getting more analog gear lately, I will soon run out of ins/outs. So can you share your experience with 2 Orpheus working together ? Is it easy ? I'm not an engineer, just a musician, I would need the second Orpheus for more ins and outs to attach some compressores and other EQ or Preamps...

Thank you
Michel
PS : sorry for my poor English
Old 20th January 2020
  #508
Gear Addict
 
rectape's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel199 View Post
Hi,

I own an Orpheus and I wanted to maybe get a Titan for the USB easy use. I didn't know it was possible to chain 2 Orpheus together, and after seeing your post I'm glad that I didn't sold my beloved Orpheus for something more fancy. Since I'm getting more analog gear lately, I will soon run out of ins/outs. So can you share your experience with 2 Orpheus working together ? Is it easy ? I'm not an engineer, just a musician, I would need the second Orpheus for more ins and outs to attach some compressores and other EQ or Preamps...

Thank you
Michel
PS : sorry for my poor English
Hi,
It is not complicated, you just have to connect them together with firewire and choose the CSP clock mode.
Check out the online manual.
Beware that there is no more driver updates and I have no guarante that I won’t have any problems in the future with OS updates.
Old 20th January 2020
  #509
Gear Head
 
Michel199's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rectape View Post
Hi,
It is not complicated, you just have to connect them together with firewire and choose the CSP clock mode.
Check out the online manual.
Beware that there is no more driver updates and I have no guarante that I won’t have any problems in the future with OS updates.
Thank you very much !
Old 20th January 2020
  #510
Gear Head
 

Can anyone else confirm that the Titan sounds different to Orpheus? Really disappointing and unexpected if so. Longtime Orpheus user here and as we all know it sounds incredible - it'd be a massive shame if its successor was compromised.

Be good to know for if/when we all have to consider updating, etc.
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