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Quick question about Apogee AD-16X / DA-16X
Old 17th July 2004
  #1
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Post Quick question about Apogee AD-16X / DA-16X

Just want to verify something. It's my understanding from the documents that the digital inputs/outputs on the DA-16X and AD-16X have no way of getting to Pro Tools. This is, of course, with the X-HD cards installed.

So, if you want digital in/out capability on your Pro Tools HD/Accel setup, you would need to have at least one 192 or 192 Digital.

Is that correct?

If so, that seems pretty limiting. It would be great if Apogee made their own version of a 192 Digital and sold it cheaper than Digi !! Seems they have the capability to do that now that the X-HD card is here!

Thanks,
Old 19th July 2004
  #2
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Any ideas on this??
Old 20th July 2004
  #3
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natpub's Avatar
You do need an HD core card.

You do NOT need any kind of 192 or Digi192 to connect the AD/DA 192X with XHD cards for any analog inputs or outputs, up to 16 per unit.


For digital i/o, you would need a seperate 192. I too noticed this, when thinking about digital inputs for all my MIDI stuff. Oh well, considering the price for what it is, the Apogee is still great, imo.
Old 20th July 2004
  #4
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Hey natpub, thanks for confirming. It is kind of disappointing the way they decided to go, and it isn't spelled out in the user guides. But yeah, I really can't complain too much. I think I'll add a '192 Digital' to my setup to cover those bases.

BTW, I'm from Austin!
Old 20th July 2004
  #5
Gear Head
 

Are having all the digital inputs necessary? What would you absolutely have to have them for? Just wanna know if its worth it to buy an 192
Old 20th July 2004
  #6
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Quote:
Are having all the digital inputs necessary? What would you absolutely have to have them for? Just wanna know if its worth it to buy an 192
Well, I can only speak for myself, but yeah, I want to have at least some digital in/out capability in my setup. I have a Gigastudio PC running ADAT out, and a Vox Tonelab that I would like to run S/PDIF out to avoid another D/A and A/D conversion. Plus, I might pick up some outboard units that have digital in/out and it would be nice to avoid extra conversions to patch them in.

I would be adding a "192 Digital" not the regular 192. It's just 16 in/16 out -- digital only, so it's much cheaper than the regular 192.

As far as I know, adding a "192 Digital" is the cheapest way to get some digital in/out capability in an otherwise all-Apogee HD/Accel setup.
Old 22nd July 2004
  #7
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Just wanted to chime in here for people following the thread. I got an email from Apogee confirming that digital I/O capability to Pro Tools via the X-HD card is not currently possible. So, take that for whatever you will. I'm hoping they add that feature soon!
Old 22nd July 2004
  #8
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Quote:
As far as I know, adding a "192 Digital" is the cheapest way to get some digital in/out capability in an otherwise all-Apogee HD/Accel setup.
Actually, if all you need is eight channels of ADAT from your Giga setup and S/PDIF from your ToneLab, the 96i/o has both and would be cheaper. Doesn't let you do sixteen channels digitally, though, and doesn't have all the other formats or the second set of eight ADAT channels.

-Duardo
Old 22nd July 2004
  #9
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True! I stand corrected! But as you say, it's only 8 in/out simultaneously for the digital stuff. Plus, can you imagine a *lowly* 96 I/O next to those Apogees ??? tutt heh

I guess I could get a used 96 I/O and add an old ADAT bridge !! hahaha
Old 22nd July 2004
  #10
Max
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Hi All,

Here's the scoop. As of right now, version 1.X of the AD-16X and DA-16X does not support digital I/O. The good news is that we are going to be releasing version 2.0 of the X-series software, which will support this functionality.

Here's how it works:
With v.2.0, the AD/DA-16X will take advantage of the bi-directionality of the X-HD and X-Firewire cards in a similar fashion to how the Mini-DAC functions with USB (see "USB and Beyond with Digital-Thru-Mode": http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/minidac.php).

So lets say you have an AD-16X hooked up to Pro Tools with the X-HD card. The AD-16X will send your converted digital signal to Pro Tools via the X-HD card as normal. With v.2.0, the unit will also be able to take incoming signal from Pro Tools through the X-HD card and send it out the ADAT and AES outputs simultaneously. On v.2.0 of the DA-16X, you will be able to input ADAT or AES into the DA-16X and send that signal directly to Pro Tools and output to the D/A simultaneously.

So with v.2.0, you will have the ability to send digital out to say a CD-R or other outboard gear, via AES or Optical. You will also have the ability to send digital into pro tools from say a DAT machine, Gigistudio, keyboard etc. all with full A/D and D/A functionality.

All of this will also work with the X-Firewire-400 card installed using native software such as Logic, DP or Nuendo.

We are going to try and have v.2.0 of the AD/DA-16X software by the end of summer. It will be a free download from our website. Just use the MIDI updater in your X-series converter and upload the new software directly into the box from your computer (see the manual for details).
Old 22nd July 2004
  #11
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Wow, this is huge news!!! Big Thanks to Max for giving us the info! Just want to confirm something so it's totally clear.

With v2.0 firmware, the AD-16X will let you get 16 analog channels into Pro Tools and simultaneously get 16 different digital channels out of Pro Tools. Correct? It's not just a passthrough, right?

I'm guessing w/ this update, each AD-16X or DA-16X will show up as a full "192" in the hardware setup?

Thanks again for the info, and I can't wait!!
Old 22nd July 2004
  #12
Max
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Quote:
With v2.0 firmware, the AD-16X will let you get 16 analog channels into Pro Tools and simultaneously get 16 digital channels out of Pro Tools. Correct?
That is correct.

Quote:
I'm guessing w/ this update, each AD-16X or DA-16X will show up as a full "192" in the hardware setup?
That is also correct. The cool thing is that with v.2.0, you will be able to turn Digital-Thru-Mode on and off. When Digital-Thru-Mode is on, the AD-16X and/or DA-16X will each show up as a full 192 I/O; when it is off, it will show in the hardware setup as it does now, so you have the flexibility to configure your setup either way, depending on your needs.
Old 23rd July 2004
  #13
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natpub's Avatar
I'm still stumped though--if this is a firmware update, then how do we get something like SPDIF into the the AD192X from out freestanding GIGA comps? Using what hardware connectors?


--K
Old 23rd July 2004
  #14
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Spaced's Avatar
 

Great to hear about the digital I/O capability on its way in V2.0- guess I won't buy that 192 digital after all heh

Max, as you're around, could I ask if the Apogee X-HD card supports the Digidesign Auto Delay Compensation in the same way a 192 does?

p.s thanks very much to yourself and Gary Brenner for updating my firewire ambus card so I could try the new mLAN software with my Trak 2.
Old 23rd July 2004
  #15
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@natpub:
the AD-16X has "16 channels of AES, ADAT/SMUX Output"

and the DA-16X has "16 channels of AES, ADAT/SMUX Input"


so they work as stand-alone converters. V 2.0 software will make those digital inputs and outputs available as paths to/from Pro Tools. But as you say, it seems there is no S/PDIF available.


----------------

@Spaced:
I would guess that the ADC works fine, as the 16X boxes are simply emulating 192s. The real nuts and bolts of ADC are in the software (Pro tools itself).


Hopefully Max will be along soon to clarify.
Old 23rd July 2004
  #16
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drew's Avatar
but not if PT thinks it's a 192 and tries to apply ADC when the value's wrong. I waiting to hear about this before I buy.
drew
Old 23rd July 2004
  #17
Max
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Quote:
Max, as you're around, could I ask if the Apogee X-HD card supports the Digidesign Auto Delay Compensation in the same way a 192 does?
Yes, its basically the same. We will have a tech note on our website soon that will guide you through the process, so keep checking back.

Quote:
p.s thanks very much to yourself and Gary Brenner for updating my firewire ambus card so I could try the new mLAN software with my Trak 2.
You're welcome.
Old 31st July 2004
  #18
Gear Nut
delete
Old 3rd October 2004
  #19
Gear Nut
Will the X-firewire card add any similar functionality to the Rosetta 800, or is a similar software update in the works? For example, having 8 analog and 8 seperate digital I/O's for 16 channels of simultaneous I/O.

Quote:
Originally posted by Max
Hi All,

So lets say you have an AD-16X hooked up to Pro Tools with the X-HD card. The AD-16X will send your converted digital signal to Pro Tools via the X-HD card as normal. With v.2.0, the unit will also be able to take incoming signal from Pro Tools through the X-HD card and send it out the ADAT and AES outputs simultaneously. On v.2.0 of the DA-16X, you will be able to input ADAT or AES into the DA-16X and send that signal directly to Pro Tools and output to the D/A simultaneously.
Old 23rd October 2004
  #20
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parky's Avatar
 

so with v2 of the firmware, does this mean that we'll be able to route out AES audio out to our digital outboard FX units (from a track that's already recorded, not from the AD inputs), and back in the DA16X?

so in other words I'd be able to use it like a digital version of the 192 I/O right, and still keep using my digital outboard in the mix?
Old 23rd October 2004
  #21
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krid's Avatar
 

I think that the V2 Firmware hasn't been released yet.
Old 23rd October 2004
  #22
Rep
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Rep's Avatar
Max, HI
I need at least 3 S/PDIF inputs tho.
Is there some kind of S/PDIF to AES signal converter out,
that would enable me to take advantage of this feature ?
Old 23rd October 2004
  #23
GCL
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Quote:
Originally posted by parky
so with v2 of the firmware, does this mean that we'll be able to route out AES audio out to our digital outboard FX units (from a track that's already recorded, not from the AD inputs), and back in the DA16X?

so in other words I'd be able to use it like a digital version of the 192 I/O right, and still keep using my digital outboard in the mix?
I just bought a Rosetta 800 with the X-HD card, but I don't think there's anyway to get channels 1-6 to be analog in and out, and ALSO have channels 7 & 8 receiving digitally from the ADAT input. I've tried every possible combination, but am having no luck. It's probably not possible, although Apogee told me that it was. I just want to take in a stereo ADAT pair into channels 7 & 8, while 1 - 6 are analog.
Old 25th October 2004
  #24
Gear Nut
 
parky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by GCL
I just bought a Rosetta 800 with the X-HD card, but I don't think there's anyway to get channels 1-6 to be analog in and out, and ALSO have channels 7 & 8 receiving digitally from the ADAT input. I've tried every possible combination, but am having no luck. It's probably not possible, although Apogee told me that it was. I just want to take in a stereo ADAT pair into channels 7 & 8, while 1 - 6 are analog.
Hmm insteresting, I've got a MOTU 828 i/o and i can do it on that analog and digi, all the channel pairs work independently (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc) I just select it in DP.
Old 25th October 2004
  #25
Max
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Quote:
Originally posted by GCL
I just bought a Rosetta 800 with the X-HD card, but I don't think there's anyway to get channels 1-6 to be analog in and out, and ALSO have channels 7 & 8 receiving digitally from the ADAT input. I've tried every possible combination, but am having no luck. It's probably not possible, although Apogee told me that it was. I just want to take in a stereo ADAT pair into channels 7 & 8, while 1 - 6 are analog.
This is certainly possible with the replace mode that we included in the Rosetta-800. On page 6 of the user guide, there is a pretty decent explanation of how to configure the Rosetta 800 for advance replace mode on the TO DIGITAL side of things. Basically, the unit needs to be set (on the TO DIGITAL OUTPUTS side) for ANALOG + ADAT. At that point, you can press and hold the SOURCE TO DIGITAL OUTPUTS button and change the I/O configuration using the UV22 and SOFT LIMIT buttons.

Also, you should make sure to have the R800 synched (in his case) to ADAT before setting up the box in in this mode.
Old 25th October 2004
  #26
Max
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Quote:
Originally posted by parky
so with v2 of the firmware, does this mean that we'll be able to route out AES audio out to our digital outboard FX units (from a track that's already recorded, not from the AD inputs), and back in the DA16X?

so in other words I'd be able to use it like a digital version of the 192 I/O right, and still keep using my digital outboard in the mix?
Absolutely. You would need to have both and AD-16X and DA-16X to go digitally in both directions, but it is definitely possible to do this with version 2.0.
Old 25th October 2004
  #27
GCL
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Thanks Max,
Yes, I did read manual instructions, but couldn't get it to work. Turns out I just mistakenly had the lightpipe output 1 & 2 instead of 7 & 8 from the 2408mk3 feeding the Rosetta. All is well now -- thanks.

Also, I never really bought into claims by many that such and such converters blow away this or that BUT the difference between the new Rosetta 800 and my (sold) Digidesign 192 is astounding. I am hearing things in the mixes I've been working on for the past few weeks that I didn't even know existed. Plus, everything just sounds so much warmer, liquid-y, and musical. And the sessions were still 16-44.1K! Great product!
Old 25th October 2004
  #28
Max
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Quote:
Originally posted by GCL
Thanks Max,
Yes, I did read manual instructions, but couldn't get it to work. Turns out I just mistakenly had the lightpipe output 1 & 2 instead of 7 & 8 from the 2408mk3 feeding the Rosetta. All is well now -- thanks.

Also, I never really bought into claims by many that such and such converters blow away this or that BUT the difference between the new Rosetta 800 and my (sold) Digidesign 192 is astounding. I am hearing things in the mixes I've been working on for the past few weeks that I didn't even know existed. Plus, everything just sounds so much warmer, liquid-y, and musical. And the sessions were still 16-44.1K! Great product!
Glad you like it.

Let me know if you have any more questions.
Old 26th October 2004
  #29
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chap's Avatar
 

My AD16X/DA16X sounds fantastic as is but the additional features would always be welcome.
I use my 192 Digi for digital fx returns and digital inputs for tc6000, Trak2 and SLAM!. My 8000SE's are now fx sends that return through
a Dangerous line mixer into the D2B.
40 analog to digital inputs
40 digital to analog outputs
makes for good mixing

thanks Max

peace ,
chap
Old 26th October 2004
  #30
Gear Nut
 
parky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Max
Absolutely. You would need to have both and AD-16X and DA-16X to go digitally in both directions, but it is definitely possible to do this with version 2.0.
everyone in here give a large holla for MAX, coming in and giving us a great Q&A session.
nice one. we appreciate it!!!

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