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$500 = total market domination. Right? Condenser Microphones
Old 13th September 2007
  #31
Deleted bd1be4f
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
The bigger studios will stick with HD and buy Logic.
I agree, this is my situation. Well, I'm not a big studio per se, but I have my PTHD system, and I just bought Logic 8 yesterday. I mean, at $499 it's just a no brainer.

From what I've been reading about some early reviews, it sounds as if I'll still be using PTHD for my mixing (since I use both plugs and outboard gear), but Logic will probably find its way into my workflow for compositional and MIDI work.

Overall, I agree that by pricing Logic where they have, Apple has essentially guaranteed their user base is about to explode.
Old 13th September 2007
  #32
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Why would Logic need RTAS?
Because of entrenched users who if they move wil have to give up some of their favorite plugs!

In the middleof the market ( and lowend) its hard to get someone to buy into work flow, when they already spent there time and money on a system now you say this is better but I have to give up "Soundblender"? or "purple M77" but thats my favorite plug in! A mic a comp or acool plugin is an easier sell for $500 and the Smart sales people At Sweetwater Full Compass GC and B&H know this they don'tcare whic DAW you buy they have them all and PT is an easy sell and these are the guys who delier the numbers !
So you want people to cross over you need to make it as pain less as possible for them!
The DAW its self has the highest learning curve whi is why so many stay on one platform!
Old 13th September 2007
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
Because of entrenched users who if they move wil have to give up some of their favorite plugs!

In the middleof the market ( and lowend) its hard to get someone to buy into work flow, when they already spent there time and money on a system now you say this is better but I have to give up "Soundblender"? or "purple M77" but thats my favorite plug in!
If Logic has the right numbers, those plugin developers will happily port to AU. Sony, and many others have done it already and I believe more will hop aboard still. I think McDSP will be the ice breaker. Once they do it I think even more people will defect from the Digi camp.
Old 13th September 2007
  #34
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redrue's Avatar
 

I also have PTHD and wouldn't have considered buying
Logic 8 but for the price point. I'm a Mac user and I stand
squarely in the 'it's a no-brainer' camp.

I don't intend it as a replacement to PT at all... just as
another tool in the toolbox.

And... nice going Jules (!!) for adding this forum. I'm sure it'll
help some of us newbies-to-Logic get their hands around it.

Old 13th September 2007
  #35
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by autodidactic View Post
If Logic has the right numbers, those plugin developers will happily port to AU. Sony, and many others have done it already and I believe more will hop aboard still. I think McDSP will be the ice breaker. Once they do it I think even more people will defect from the Digi camp.
Exactly.... When McDSP ports over to AU, which I am 90% sure they will... then RTAS compatibility becomes a mute point.
Old 13th September 2007
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Exactly.... When McDSP ports over to AU, which I am 90% sure they will... then RTAS compatibility becomes a mute point.
I would say that it is only McDSP, Steve Massey, and (for some) Cranesong's tape-em plug-in. Digidesign probably will make offers to those guys (if they haven't already) to NOT develop for AU.

Corporate evil. Gotta love it.

- c
Old 13th September 2007
  #37
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See the problem is when and if and there will always be somebody ! When your trying to cut into someone elses market share you need to be the proactive one! Like I said selling the Idea of buying and learning a new DAW isn't as easy as moving a new pre or mic! Grannted learning how to use any new tool istime intensive its just that the DAW is seen as more time intensive and less fun!

Plus no one seams to care that a large number of le sales are for PC!
Old 13th September 2007
  #38
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awesome thread.

Some great points. This price is, I think, a big revolution. When logic was a grand it was IMO worth a grand, but I couldn't afford it so I don't own it. I'll probably be getting it for $500. I mean... just the program is worth that... just space designer is worth almost that, sculpture could sell for a few hundred, as could their pitch shifter. All the synths could sell from $75-$150, its ridiculous.

Its really defining the difference between what a company with ridiculous sums of cash can do versus a much smaller company can do. For example, MOTU could never include so much and charge so little, not even Digi. Look at the AIR instruments, all great but really about as good as the Logic instruments.

The point about Logic possibly being everywhere is the biggest crutch to digidesign, because it CAN be everywhere. For digi to be everywhere there would need to be and mbox connected to every computer. Thats a big deal. If Digi makes this rumored "mbox hidden" thing work for them it could get rid of that crutch, but I have a feeling it won't be as good of a deal, it would have to be free, because no one should have to pay to be able to use a product they already bought.
Old 13th September 2007
  #39
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T_R_S's Avatar
I am not sure about how many new Cubase/DP Mac users there will be in the future.
There are a lot of great thing in Logic 8 but in there any phone support available of Logic like there used to be?
For a lot of users have a turnkey sustem with phone support and ready accress to service and or parts is very important.
Old 14th September 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
The bigger studios will stick with HD and buy Logic.

Everybody in the world will have a copy of Logic.

Logic is now the Microsoft Word of audio.

- c
Bought my upgrade last night-thinking the same thing today. Apple can't give L8 too many features for fear of killing other developers. 3rd party Apps and Plugs sell computers, too. At least I hope that's their thinking.
Old 14th September 2007
  #41
rtx
Here for the gear
 

Silver Sonya: i think you're right on. There's tons of features in here for the pros, the price is certainly right, and I think people here on GS are (naturally) overlooking the value for the semi-pro/hobbyists in all the bundled jam packs and loops. Because of the ubiquity of Garageband on macs, and the fact that Logic is now an easy and affordable step up, the market for Logic may now be even bigger than PT ever was.

Remember that Apple doesn't have to make money selling Logic. Apple makes their money selling macs and ipods and (now) iphones; you have to look at anything they do through that point of view. They can deliver something like Logic studio for $500 because they think it's gonna sell them a ton more macs, and I bet they're right.

One last thing to ponder. As I wrote in another thread, take a look at Avid's financial statements - they haven't been profitable for a year or so, the stock is really at a 52-week low, and even going back 6 years it hasn't been consistently money-making. I don't know what this means for PT, but they're not in the strongest position fiscally.
Old 14th September 2007
  #42
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Well, this is a good time to be alive, except music is seen as cheap and inconsequential and nobody cares about it anymore. Certainly nobody wants to pay for it. Other than that, it's a good time to be alive...
heh

- c
i have been printing logic synths to 2" 16 track for years........
it is a good time to be alive


be well
buy
vinyl


- jack
Old 14th September 2007
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
2Low's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post

Will Logic's latest release convince PT HD guys to sell their rigs?
No

Nothing has changed
ProTools is great for tracking, audio editing and mixing
Logic is great for arranging & midi stuff
Old 14th September 2007
  #44
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

I'm not trying to be confrontational here. Just giving my take on some of this enthusiasm. I'm a Mac user, a PC user, a Logic user and a Pro Tools user...so I'm not really coming from any side of the fence here...although, I should disclose, I own a little Apple stock, and kinda wish I owned a little more somedays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
This is really my only point: it is going to be everywhere. Everywhere.
Except where Macs aren't!

____________________________________________
Logic Studio System Requirements
Minimum requirements to install all applications
  • Mac computer with a 1.25GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor (PowerPC G5, Intel Core Duo, or Intel Xeon processor highly recommended)
Surround requirements for Logic Pro and Soundtrack Pro
  • Mac computer with dual PowerPC G5 processors or an Intel Core Duo or Xeon processor
  • Multichannel audio interface
    ____________________________________________
Those computers are hardly Everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Today is the greatest day in DAW history...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
This is where technology has been heading for a long time, and it happened in September 2007.
Heavy proclamations boys! Technology has been heading towards Logic 8 for a long time? I know people have certainly been WAITING for Logic 8 for a long time!

How will it be? We'll see. Plenty of things long time users have been screaming for and they're still not there. Fantastic price, for sure, but don't fool yourself...it will NOT be everywhere! You still need to buy some $erious hardware to run it (a Mac, at minimum).

Logic & Pro Tools have pretty much always been in every music studio I've worked in as it is (mine included), so I don't expect to notice much change there. I've never seen Logic being used to cut or mix a feature film, however, and feel that day is a still a loooong way off before that is a normal occurance (Henchman may show up and tell me otherwise, though...AGAIN!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
I mean, name me one person who can't open a .doc file on their computer? Logic is going to be like that. That's what I predict.
OK...I'm not trying to be an ass here, but, I know LOADS of people that CAN'T open .doc files...and certainly not the newer .docx format!!! Unbelievable...frustrating... and sometimes unbelievably frustrating!!! What these people all have in common is that they've bought a computer/laptop from somebody like DELL, and they've received Microsoft Works...can't open .doc files. Do they care? No. Will they pay a few hundred to get Office? NO!!!

Anyway...good looking improvements...fantastic price. Bravo Bravo. I still can't see September 12th 2007 going down in history as the greatest day in DAW history, though. Decent app...half the price...on we go.

Old 14th September 2007
  #45
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Heavy proclamations boys! Technology has been heading towards Logic 8 for a long time? I know people have certainly been WAITING for Logic 8 for a long time!

How will it be? We'll see. Plenty of things long time users have been screaming for and they're still not there. Fantastic price, for sure, but don't fool yourself...it will NOT be everywhere! You still need to buy some $erious hardware to run it (a Mac, at minimum).
People don't realize it yet, but the DAW world as we knew it has changed forever.... I've seen these changes occur in other areas of our industry.. like the transition from tape to PT TDM.

We will look back on this release as a major change for our industry. It will be EVERYWHERE within 1 year.

This was the "crack in the dam" that opened the flood gates.... everything in the DAW world is now different.
Old 14th September 2007
  #46
Gear Addict
 

Yeah Hopefully Eventide will port over their software!
Old 14th September 2007
  #47
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
People don't realize it yet, but the DAW world as we knew it has changed forever.... I've seen these changes occur in other areas of our industry.. like the transition from tape to PT TDM.

We will look back on this release as a major change for our industry. It will be EVERYWHERE within 1 year.

This was the "crack in the dam" that opened the flood gates.... everything in the DAW world is now different.
I like the "crack in the dam" comment.
Old 14th September 2007
  #48
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
It will be EVERYWHERE within 1 year.
So back to Windows land too?
Old 14th September 2007
  #49
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
So back to Windows land too?
EVERYWHERE that there is a Mac. heh
Old 14th September 2007
  #50
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
EVERYWHERE that there is a Mac. heh
And where else would you want to be, really?
Old 14th September 2007
  #51
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kingofswing's Avatar
This may sound like a personal insecurity (myself of couse) and as much as i love using Logic and shall be purchasing the Pro 8 upgrade soon enough. But...

I find that the new lower price point has kind of killed the importance of such a premium app that it once use to be. Imo, the higher price point of the 'pro' version also kept a division of the type of user level, for example professional or non professional. I know it's only software and a steep lurning curve to get through, but still...

I can see in a year from now a huge break out of young kids going out to buy a mac mini and Logic express (or demanded as a christmas gift) to make beats and post them up on youtube and the likes). I can also see Myspace really flooding out with young so called producers. heck, even my 12 year old nephew will be using logic soon enough just for the sake of it (and yes he has an Imac). It kind of makes me feel as though Logic will become the 'ms word' of music apps for the everybody to create music on as somebody has already mentioned. Is this really a good thing?

Just expressing my personal view
Old 14th September 2007
  #52
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post

I can see in a year from now a huge break out of young kids going out to buy a mac mini and Logic express (or demanded as a christmas gift) to make beats and post them up on youtube and the likes). I can also see Myspace really flooding out with young so called producers. heck, even my 12 year old nephew will be using logic soon enough just for the sake of it (and yes he has an Imac). It kind of makes me feel as though Logic will become the 'ms word' of music apps for the everybody to create music on as somebody has already mentioned. Is this really a good thing?
You're overanalyzing....

Who cares what kids use to make music... Logic Express was always cheap and accessible, anyway.

The high dollar exclusivity the name once brought may be over, but it's a better program now...

Our DAW's shouldn't define us as professional or not.
Old 14th September 2007
  #53
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post

I find that the new lower price point has kind of killed the importance of such a premium app that it once use to be. Imo, the higher price point of the 'pro' version also kept a division of the type of user level, for example professional or non professional. I know it's only software and a steep lurning curve to get through, but still...

I can see in a year from now a huge break out of young kids going out to buy a mac mini and Logic express (or demanded as a christmas gift) to make beats and post them up on youtube and the likes). I can also see Myspace really flooding out with young so called producers. heck, even my 12 year old nephew will be using logic soon enough just for the sake of it (and yes he has an Imac). It kind of makes me feel as though Logic will become the 'ms word' of music apps for the everybody to create music on as somebody has already mentioned. Is this really a good thing?

Just expressing my personal view
I hear ya, but really it's no different than what's been out there the past several years, with Mboxes, Garageband, etc. I mean, I remember the day when Pro Tools was available for less than a grand, it was like a revelation after only being able to use PT on a full blown mega $$ TDM rig. The line between professional and hobbyist gear-wise has been blurred for several years already, so that horse has long since left the barn. This is just a continuation of that progression.

And besides, what really separates the top level guys from the amateurs and hobbyists isn't so much the tools anymore as it is the creativity, talent, and experience. And no matter how well some kid learns Logic or any other program, if he doesn't have the ears and the creativity, it won't mean squat.
Old 14th September 2007
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post

Our DAW's shouldn't define us as professional or not.

Very true. But Logic is a serious production app, i would hate to see it become like a Fruityloops 'cheap and cheerful. Already people are saying it makes a great second app now that the price has dropped. I doubt that would have been the case before.

Anyway, i kind of see what you guys mean. Garage band has been installed on Macs for quite a while now. So i suppose i may be over thinking this whole thing.
Old 14th September 2007
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Low View Post
No

Nothing has changed
ProTools is great for tracking, audio editing and mixing
Logic is great for arranging & midi stuff
Nothing has changed, except that Logic is now also good for tracking, audio editing and mixing. Compare version 6 to version 8. Space Designer and now Delay Designer. Quick Swipe comping. Audio stretching (which you could always do, but was a major pain). Sample-accurate editing. Region-based take management and take folders. Snap to transient.

Apple did exactly what they needed to do to catch up to Digi; they simplified audio editing and made it more powerful at the same time. Plus they retain the advantage they already had in the composition arena. Even with the AIR instruments (which are extra-cost options), Digi hasn't caught up to Logic in composition.
Old 14th September 2007
  #56
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2Low's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
Nothing has changed, except that Logic is now also good for tracking, audio editing and mixing. Compare version 6 to version 8. Space Designer and now Delay Designer. Quick Swipe comping. Audio stretching (which you could always do, but was a major pain). Sample-accurate editing. Region-based take management and take folders. Snap to transient.

Apple did exactly what they needed to do to catch up to Digi; they simplified audio editing and made it more powerful at the same time. Plus they retain the advantage they already had in the composition arena. Even with the AIR instruments (which are extra-cost options), Digi hasn't caught up to Logic in composition.


I´m, curious about how the new Logic acts
when you hit record on 20 tracks at once, with a few compressors and EQs ( for the singer´s guide track and the bassplayer ) and a reverb ... zoom in/out while recording ...and adjust aux sends meanwhile.

It´s not just the app for 499, you will need a Macpro + decent ( PCIe ) interfaces

Don´t get me wrong i like Logic ...
we´ll see
Old 14th September 2007
  #57
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
It kind of makes me feel as though Logic will become the 'ms word' of music apps for the everybody to create music on as somebody has already mentioned. Is this really a good thing?
My friend Deborah is a respected poet. She also publishes an excellent and highly esteemed literary joural. She uses MS Word to do her work.

Her writing is more interesting than yours and mine, even though we use the same software as she does.

Nah mean?

The tool has always mattered less than the user.

- c
Old 14th September 2007
  #58
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
The fact that every studio will have Logic could eventually push the need for PT to the side. It's a clever strategy.... Price it so it doesn't make sense not to have it. Suddenly, it's everywhere and people start using it because it is everywhere. On your laptop, on your desktop, in the big studio, etc. Take the project home and do edits on your laptop with the same session loading on every computer you own...
Every studio will NOT have logic. Are we forgetting the guys that use PCs?

This only places Digi at a position to reduce prices and do well.


Apple is doing this to sell computers.
Old 14th September 2007
  #59
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
Every studio will NOT have logic. Are we forgetting the guys that use PCs?
I think he meant PRO studios....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(just kidding, PC dweebies).
Old 14th September 2007
  #60
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
Every studio will NOT have logic. Are we forgetting the guys that use PCs?
The studios I've experienced directly have been Mac-centric. I personally have not been in a modern professional studio that didn't have a Mac somewhere.

I know exclusively PC pro studios exist, but I've never been in one.

- c
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